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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:04:00 -
[1]
Fix Factional Warfare
With 14 FW-related issues raised by the CSM in the past, and almost all of these issues still being relevant, it is time to discuss the future of Factional Warfare and propose a realistic approach to improve the future of this aspect of the game.
Why is Factional Warfare Worthy of Devtime?
Factional Warfare acts as a bridge between playstyles, and fulfills a niche PVP role within the game. Individual players can easily contribute and participating does not require a large investment in ships. Due to this low barrier to entry, it provides a casual way for new players and carebears alike to get introduced to PVP and lose their fear of low security space.
Factional Warfare is not just beneficial for individual players, it is a great platform for corporations as well. Soloplayers engaging in FW will quickly find and join FW-related corporations. Corporations that tire of their playstyle often find the casual PVP of FW a nice temporary activity before moving on to another area of the game.
Short Term Improvements
These are relatively small issues in urgent need of improvement, which will dramatically increase FW playability and enjoyment. Currently, FW is broken at the core. Fixing these issues will provide a stable foundation to build on.
* Bug and Exploit fixes (detailed list will be provided to CCP) * Encouraging PVP in FW missions and complexes * Balancing FW-related NPCs in missions and complexes * Fixing the complex spawn system to make complexes spawn at all times during the day
Mid Term Improvements
These issues require some more commitment from CCP, and help retain player interest in FW over longer periods of time.
* Running FW-related live events (fix above issues first!) * Adding ways for players to know when systems are being contested, letting players find and fight eachother * Roleplaying-alliances joining FW?
Long Term Improvements
These improvements require considerable devtime. Some of these were originally on the table when FW was designed but never made it in-game. These improvements expand on the foundation FW has laid, and make FW appeal to more players and have more meaningful consequences in the game.
* Add more ways to contest space * Add PVP-related missions * Add consequences to system occupancy * Tie more playstyles into the FW system * Integrate Pirate Factions into FW
Your Input Welcome
Please provide any issues I should add to the list, or any arguments you believe I could use to convince CCP to finally commit to improving FW.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:21:00 -
[2]
Good proposal. FW has certainly been out long enough to qualify for version 2.0
I feel that FW is missing the "meaningful" part of pvp. Sure you can take over a system (mainly with intys orbiting a beacon at 10km apparently) and you get what? Enemies can still dock there, you don't get system upgrades or anything. I love FW, but most of the time you are hanging around a very few systems and the militias just try to gank each other.
I would also love to see a pirate FW faction that only accepts -10.0 members, is at war with all the other militias (even themselves?) but gets cheaper pirate ships from the lp store. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Caimeka
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:32:00 -
[3]
I will support this if adding pirate factions is a priority.
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
This isnt a proposal it is more of a long winded way of saying I want bug fixes and 'stuff' included in FW, however I wont include any ideas I will just say stuff needs to be included.
Ideally this would be a great thread for features and ideas but not for assembly hall due to it actually having no ideas
Thanks Ankh, /supported with all my chars at least Emo TJ has the decency to actually GIVE ideas :P
So really I am supporting a thread that wants ideas
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Asruv'ynn
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.05.26 20:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Asruv''ynn on 26/05/2010 20:07:42 I don't have any experience in FW though I've always toyed around with the idea. My biggest concern to convince me to join is having enough roleplayers and the support of capital fleets in lowsec. Being honest here, I'm training up for dreadnought and possibly carrier down the road and would obviously want a home, should I want to go into FW. What I don't want is to be in there and then not see other capitals and it just be one big blob against new players. It doesn't sound fun or fair for anyone..
Also, I'd like to see more ideas on perhaps introducing more roleplaying to FW. At the moment, I really enjoy the pirate militias idea. I recall seeing that mentioned in the 09 fanfest FW video. Sounds good for a first step in roleplaying and also I could see some great warfare come out of that.
What are your thoughts on using capitals in FW?
PS. congratulations on the election! |
NereSky
Maelstrom Crew Paradigm Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.26 21:35:00 -
[6]
I don't take part in the FW however i can see its importance to the game and storyline and im glad someone capable is representing this
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Nauplius
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:24:00 -
[7]
Supported.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:18:00 -
[8]
Yes, yes, yes!
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:33:00 -
[9]
Supported ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
uredo
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:37:00 -
[10]
Supported.
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Rodney Crittendon
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:14:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Rodney Crittendon on 27/05/2010 15:13:51 I am Rodney Crittendon and I support the OP.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:18:00 -
[12]
See this thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1325186
The easiest way to fix the plexing mechanic is to allow re-spawns to happen at all times. If a Federation plex respawns in a Caldari occupied system, then so be it - let it stay a Federation plex. Have the plex switch to Caldari during downtime to rebalance.
In the end there's little CCP can do to encourage pvp in plexes and/or missions. Both parties must want a fight.
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Ammon Dei
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:28:00 -
[13]
Supported Fully.
Thank you,
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:52:00 -
[14]
Ank
I like allot of what you propose but some I don't. ItÆs hard to tell what I would be supporting if I supported this.
Under short term improvements I agree with everything except how exactly do you intend to promote pvp in complexes and missions? I think we can promote pvp in complexes by removing npcs and simply letting the players know when and where a complex is being run. Is that what you mean to do? But missions? Not sure how you get the pve to pvp there. I think missions are fine the way they are. They can currently be used by players for great pvp and are being used that way to some extent. But I agree that can be improved. For example I sometimes take a level 1 mission in the opposing factions main system. Since level 1s only allow frigates or destroyers in I can kill most of the rats and wait for enemies to come in. I know they canÆt all warp on top of my t1 frigate because they must go through the gate. They will know what ships I am in based on the scanner.
I hope to do this with some level 3 missions and a group of bcs. I think it will lead to some good pvp. I hope ccp doesnÆt mess with missions and make this impossible. But without knowing what you propose how can we tell?
Under mid term: I also tend to agree but not sure exaclty how you want to let alliances in. You had made a proposal on this before that I thought were pretty good (if memory serves) but I have also seen several proposals that were bad.
As far as long term goals. I used to want occupancy consequences now I'm against it. We donÆt need more people piling on the winning side. (which this would encourage) We need the opposite. The rest is a bit too vague. Live events like a FW tournament similar to the alliance tournament would be great though.
The way this proposal is written it seems like some sort of carte blanche to have CSM do whatever in FW. I tend to like FW as it is now and would not be in favor of the csm proposing changes unless we first have a somewhat detailed proposal that we can actually discuss.
ôFix faction warö is not really a proposal. If I recall you had some decent detailed proposals please give them to us individually so we can know what we are supporting.
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Coffeez
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:25:00 -
[15]
Supported.
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Omegris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:05:00 -
[16]
Fully supported.
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Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:25:00 -
[17]
Supporting the principle. I'd point out that as far as specifics go, this has been debated to death in plenty of threads. Veshta Yoshida had a good one a while back in this very forum, if memory serves, and there have been several in F&I.
Much as I hope to be proven wrong, I doubt this will receive much support - the majority of the FW community seems to have accepted they are destined to be ignored. Planetary Interaction was the first feature ever where CCP actually bothered to publicly consider followup work. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:41:00 -
[18]
Quote: * Integrate Pirate Factions into FW
^ This I especially would like to see
But all are good points
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Aerilis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:55:00 -
[19]
OMG YES PLEASE
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Supporting the principle. I'd point out that as far as specifics go, this has been debated to death in plenty of threads.
When you say as far as specifics go, *this* has been debated to death what are you referring to? The specifics as to what issue? I have been following these threads quite a bit and we generally get 3 types of ideas:
1) Very vague threads where someone says "fix faction war" and everyone agrees. But the ideas they post on how to "fix" it are various and often contradictory. I mean why not have a thread that says "fix eve" and then if anyone wants anything in eve changed then support the idea. You end up getting allot of people saying yeah I want this change but at the end of the day you have no idea what change people are really supporting. That is what this thread is.
2) Threads that involve correcting exploits or quasi exploits or bugs. I would also throw in there things like obvious imbalances between races. E.g., there is no good reason the caldari npcs should be 10s more difficult to fight than the gallente. These proposals are specific and usually well supported.
3) Then there are the other detailed proposals. These would include things like mechanics to allow alliances to be able to join; add certain consequences for occupancy; add back the automatic decline for missions; change the mechanics of how the complexes spawn and occupancy ; Remove all npcs from plexes; change how lp are awarded; Etc etc. These proposals have met with widely varied support by the players. Some were strongly supported some were mostly rejected.
We canÆt expect CCP will just redo fw based on vague ideas. ItÆs fairly popular as it is. I still think they could add some things to help fw players earn more money and of course I have a few other ideas. But each of these ideas needs to be considered on its own merit by the players. At least, if you want the csm to do things that the players want as opposed to whatever they see fit.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:32:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/05/2010 20:33:08
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
* Bug and Exploit fixes (detailed list will be provided to CCP) * Running FW-related live events (fix above issues first!) * Add more ways to contest space * Add PVP-related missions * Add consequences to system occupancy * Tie more playstyles into the FW system
+1
Quote:
* Fixing the complex spawn system to make complexes spawn at all times during the day * Adding ways for players to know when systems are being contested, letting players find and fight eachother
+0
Quote: * Balancing FW-related NPCs in missions and complexes
Meh, I don't really see this as a problem. -0
Quote:
* Encouraging PVP in FW missions and complexes
How would you suggest doing this? The biggest problem to me is that the NPCs are so ... hefty. It's very very hard to PVP in a FW plex/mission. Also, the FW missions very quickly become *much much much much much* less profitable than L4s when you consider PVP.
Quote:
* Roleplaying-alliances joining FW? * Integrate Pirate Factions into FW
Yyyyeeeesssssssss! +10
-Liang
Ed: I support the *idea* behind fixing FW, and many of the "specifics". A bit light on details here. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Neo Gabriel
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 21:27:00 -
[22]
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Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:03:00 -
[23]
Supported. |
Swollen Goat
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Factional Warfare acts as a bridge between playstyles,
Soloplayers engaging in FW will quickly find and join FW-related corporations.
^^^My experience exactly.^^^
In common survey form:
Disagree<------------------------------------->Agree 1-----------2---------3---------4---------5 Strongly---Somewhat---Neutral---Somewhat---Strongly
Short Term Improvements
ALL 5
Mid Term Improvements * Running FW-related live events 3 * Adding ways for players to know when systems are being contested, letting players find and fight eachother 5 maybe an evegate tie in here * Roleplaying-alliances joining FW? 3
Long Term Improvements
* Add more ways to contest space 5 * Add PVP-related missions 5 definately an intersting concept but would require willing participants, maybe like a game lobby - game matching - balance numbers and ship types but you only see who it is when you arrive on the field * Add consequences to system occupancy 5 I like the idea I read somewhere that opposing militia wouldn't be able to dock - just one thought * Tie more playstyles into the FW system 4 * Integrate Pirate Factions into FW 5 \m/\m/
Good Luck Ankh
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Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:39:00 -
[25]
Support
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Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:42:00 -
[26]
Fix some of the damn factions too
*edit* 5 minute repost delay SUCKS - why is everything created by CCP designed to be as unpleasant to use as possible?
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yani dumyat
Minmatar The 23rd Sense
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:16:00 -
[27]
Would love to see some attention given to FW but can't support the proposal for these two reasons:
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
it provides a casual way for new players and carebears alike to get introduced to PVP and lose their fear of low security space.
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Add consequences to system occupancy
A fairly large proportion of FW players are experienced pvpers who don't care for politics and occupancy, we just want a fight with out the bull of null alliances and time consuming logistics. These older players often provide a link between FW and null sec while also passing on their experience and enthusiasm to newer pvpers. FW needs to be a place where the jaded and cynical eve crusties can relax in a T1 cruiser while those who are fresh and eager from the null sec fights can learn to FC.
I'm worried that thinking of FW as something for "new players and carebears" will turn it into a mini version of null and "consequences to system occupancy" stinks of alarm clock CTA's. The biggest strength of FW is that it's a melting pot of people from all round New Eden and that is the thing that needs encouraged the most.
The OP is too vague to be able to say how much of it is a good idea so I'll respond with a list of things that I see as the bedrock of FW and the reason I've spent more time in Heimatar than null sec.
Consensual pvp that is open and available to all (interesting mix of people, abilities and fleet sizes)
No consequences that are important enough for CEO's to call an alarm clock CTA's (IE no station ping pong or economic repercussions for the losers other than ship costs)
No rewards that are big enough to attract the attention of null alliances.
Low logistical requirements (no TCU's, POSes or other requirements to spend a billion isk and play anchoring online) _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:35:00 -
[28]
Faction Warfare on war for occupancy is mostly dead, if you look at plexing stats you can find that from every militia there is only total 50 chars who take more than one or more plex / day, and if you know better about those chars you can find out that almost half of those are PERVS members or their alts. There is also couple of known gallente plexing alts.
So total number of actual active plexers is quite low. CCP does not fix FW plexing because only about 30-50 actual players play it on daily.
There is no reason to take plexes or fight those, so there is no fightning. Plexing happens mostly when you can do it without resistance.
So i do support that ccp should fix bugs, because exploiting those is bad for overall attitude for exploiting, some players thinks that it is all right to exploit those bugs.
But as FW is dead it is just waste of time to fix those, it is just better to end this war or change it to working one. Fixing bugs does not change the fact that no one want to plex, there is no reason and there is no way to force or encourage people to go in the plex and fight to the end.
Only thing that people are happy is roaming with blob from oms to tama and back. Blob ! The thing you can do better in 0.0 so...
FW is dead.
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Onezen
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:43:00 -
[29]
Supported in full.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:45:00 -
[30]
I think that FW not just need some bugs fixed rather than get build up from scratch again but as far as we know that will never happen just like most of the stuff in csm
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