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CinaneK
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:37:00 -
[1]
Well again, CCP makes great work whit new interface, planetary actions but like always they nerfed something
For u all guys who's ISKies incomming r from rats in low sec, 0.0 systems get ur empire Jump Clones rdy coz u will get more iskies now from missioning then ratting.
So whats new on rats ? (Angel space where i live is -0.83 dunno hows whit other rats) 1. 1st thing u will see, rats dont drop more turrets, or they drop turrets rly rarely. Killed 20 BSs, just 1 wrecks got 1 650mm autocannon I, killed another 20 BSs - again 1 turret. In a fact, if there something what should dropped to wrecks - from the fit that rat should have - then its a TURRET coz of 8x pieces. Each large wrecks got now scrap metal (1 piece). Hope i'll get an answer whats the point on this. I saw that so that everytime u deploy something u just thing about how to nerf ISK income so another part of players will be again not able to farm the Iskies now for a 30d PLEX or 60d GTC so he will need to buy it for real pessos.
My opinion, ratting in 0.0 systems only coz of bounties is now pointless. I can earn same money for missioning in preety nice and safe Empire system where i get more loot from wrecks + bounties too + LPs. If i wish PVP i can make few jumps to closest low sec. So i wish to know answer just on 1 simple question: Where is the point to stay in 0.0 systems and why to rat now?
2. Rats in belts r for preety sure stronger. Last time ratting whole week and never spend so many ammo like today. Means they have been buffered by EHP or get more REZISTS. In case it means, u will need now more time to kill a rat - whats in end u get less ISKs as before.
U can again say - ur politics, ur way. Well its NOT, sorry coz u living from our money, its our money whats going on ur bank account and i think its time to do change by players not by u. Just for me why is there no PLAYER VOTING? Why we - those who PAYS - cant decide whats good for us / whats not. We r the group which is playing, not u guys. We should decide, u should realize ... thats all i want to say
Thx, whit regards - CinaneK
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Zey Nadar
Gallente S0utherN Comfort Enforcers of Serenity
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 27/05/2010 07:42:15 NPCs dont drop T1 loot anymore. In its place is the scrap metal. This applies to missions as well. THeres a thread about it somewhere.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:41:00 -
[3]
When miners get bounty, standings, sec increases, loyalty points, meta items and faction loot from mining, ratters and missioners can complain about not getting as many minerals.
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Milo Melano
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:43:00 -
[4]
ur su write about dis an dey'd toad us so and so der it was
an me frens in emppior sed dat dey didn't get no tourettes neither
so wot da frankfurter?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:46:00 -
[5]
0.0 ratters, L4 missioners and hi sec pure 0.01 ISK station traders were the freeloaders of EvE. 2 of them got toned down, the third could be the next in line. They'd need to add a massively heavy tax for same station buy and resale so that they have to undock and expose themselves to the same risks the other people have to (all the other traders are fine). - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Darius Talon
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:46:00 -
[6]
So you didnt read up on the stuff they were gonna do other than OOoooohhhh, PI?
Well, I will be the first to ask then............
CAN I HAS YOUR STUFFS??
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Urraka
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:47:00 -
[7]
@ CinaneK
Didn't you notice this two expansion before? This isn't eve-online, it's carebears online. IF you want to live in Highsec and make tons of iskies CCP will support you (cause of all the whine). If you want to live in 0.0 and actually play more aspects of the game then you have to pay and pay and pay and pay (eg. subscription, gtc for isk, etc etc). PVPers/0.0 residents need to learn the power of carebear whine, feel the force. Personally I blame CSM for all the garbage and not to mention all the "leaks" in what to profit from next.
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Turvanius
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:47:00 -
[8]
AFAIK (which isn't very far so might want to take this with a grain of salt) the only difference should be less T1 drops? I couldn't care less to be honest, if anything it helps me because I won't feel the need to haul all that worthless junk (I just can't help myself if it's there, but if it's not I don't care) back for reprocessing.
I'm pretty sure rats haven't been boosted? And to be honest I only rat for bounty, the items dropped aren't really worth it unless they're the high meta level items, sale in 0.0 usually reduces the price something terrible anyway.
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 0.0 ratters, L4 missioners and hi sec pure 0.01 ISK station traders were the freeloaders of EvE. 2 of them got toned down, the third could be the next in line. They'd need to add a massively heavy tax for same station buy and resale so that they have to undock and expose themselves to the same risks the other people have to (all the other traders are fine).
But how? Tag every single item with information on where and when it was last bought? Not going to happen. Also a measure like that would be a punch in the face of the libertine free market concepts EVE stands for I suppose.
But you are right in assessing that while insurance fraud, ratting and missioning have taken a hit, trading reigns even more supreme as the potential highest source of income. Whether that is good or bad is another question. Help us to make parrots game related today! |
Eva Wolfe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Eva Wolfe on 27/05/2010 08:04:53 Edited by: Eva Wolfe on 27/05/2010 08:04:17 You are right about 0.0 if that's what's happened, ratting was my only income in 0.0. So not much point going there anymore.
So if mission rats do not drop much either anymore that's stopped those that reprocess and use the minerals to manufacture items. Of course they can still manufacture but they would have to buy the stuff now.
Is it all rats or just a reduction in the high drop rate rats?
If they've not increased the bounties and mission rewards to compensate then even some missions seem hardly worth it.
Always found LPs on the whole worthless, so don't even tend to worry about them.
As for what you say about PLEXs and GTCs, Ive been thinking that for sometime now, this is just another step in that direction.
Edit: If they have not decreased the amount of alloys that drop from rats then that would make the drone regions more attractive.
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Natalie Caladan
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 27/05/2010 08:05:22
Originally by: Zey Nadar Edited by: Zey Nadar on 27/05/2010 07:42:15 NPCs dont drop T1 loot anymore. In its place is the scrap metal. This applies to missions as well. THeres a thread about it somewhere.
They drop less t1 loot, we'll still have some but not as much.
I wonder though if only meta 0 drops has been nerfed (so t1 manufacturers may get a little more profit) or that the t1 meta 1-4 drop tables have been altered as well?
Question: "scrap metal" isn't "metal scraps"?! So it's not as bulky and also refines into something more than a handful of trit?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:07:00 -
[12]
Quote:
If you want to live in 0.0 and actually play more aspects of the game then you have to pay and pay and pay and pay (eg. subscription, gtc for isk, etc etc). PVPers/0.0 residents need to learn the power of carebear whine, feel the force.
Let me be frank (it's not like I am not always and bluntly so): it's good for the game long term.
EvE every day risks what every MMO risks: for items to become worthless (as farm techniques improve) and money to lose value and ultimately crash its economy. But unlike many other MMOs, EvE is *founded* on its economy being strong and working.
Now, nerfing bears is just fair but 0.0 players too got complacently buffed thru the years.
Remember having to HTFU and carry stuff in 0.0 without JF? Remember battleships being the "oooh, aaah" factor? Remember T2 ships being the epic top?
Thru the years everything lost value. My corp Dark Rising "restarted" in 2009 and went thru a gradual approach to get back to 0.0 strength and become worth being in IT Alliance again. Our CEO mentioned how in 0.0 now battleships would be what yesterday were cruisers and about the need to get dreads, carriers etc. etc.
This because passing the time, the economy lost strength and people could farm caps and super caps and basically make dreads the new battleships and so on.
This has to be kept under control, before having a Titan becomes as basic as having a cov ops alt.
Leave hi sec for *hi sec* players
0.0 is meant to be the place for *EvE* players. The ones with the sausage.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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SirRalph
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:11:00 -
[13]
Collecting loot and salvage is complete waste of time in 0.0, you make much more ISK by just warping to next belt and farm the bounties. Also by that you increase your chance to get faction spawn (more killed spawns).
And no way in hell you get the same ISK from L4 mission bounties than -0.83 sec system, not a chance.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:14:00 -
[14]
Are belt rats still dropping meta loot?
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Marquis Zenas
I.X Research
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 0.0 ratters, L4 missioners and hi sec pure 0.01 ISK station traders were the freeloaders of EvE. 2 of them got toned down, the third could be the next in line. They'd need to add a massively heavy tax for same station buy and resale so that they have to undock and expose themselves to the same risks the other people have to (all the other traders are fine).
For someone involved in ingame consulting thats a bit ignorant considering most people you audit probably started their fortunes in this way! It's what is called a free market. Nobody is forcing anybody to sell to buy orders. Don't forget the risks to ones wallet. If you invest heavily in certain products and the market for that product crashes then thats a lot of isk lost. Sounds risky to me. -------------------------- How do you play the game?
Originally by: Le Skunk Spin an armarda of expensive ships, grandstand in local chat and post on forums
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CinaneK Well again, CCP makes great work whit new interface, planetary actions but like always they nerfed something
For u all guys who's ISKies incomming r from rats in low sec, 0.0 systems get ur empire Jump Clones rdy coz u will get more iskies now from missioning then ratting.
Your Score: 0 Train Patch Notes Reading to at least I and try again.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:03:00 -
[17]
You realize that looting while ratting is a complete waste of time anyway, right?
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Eva Wolfe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You realize that looting while ratting is a complete waste of time anyway, right?
If you were in the drone regions you would soon realise that if you did not loot you would not be earning any income at all.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You realize that looting while ratting is a complete waste of time anyway, right?
Mmmm not if you're running a macro its not. The whining in certain alliance channels will be EPIC
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eva Wolfe
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You realize that looting while ratting is a complete waste of time anyway, right?
If you were in the drone regions you would soon realise that if you did not loot you would not be earning any income at all.
Do drones drop turrets? ;)
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Cheap Dude
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:33:00 -
[21]
Well.. why would anybody get T1 BPO's and make the items if they keep dropping of rats? Why would anyone mine if minerals are gained by refining the loot?
Ratting is maybe nerfed, but in the end industrial people got the much needed buff! Also don't forget that most people get isk from ratting, prices on the markets will reflect this..
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Primary.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:36:00 -
[22]
Why are you ratting in 0.0, wouldn't it be more productive to do anomalies or plexes?
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Eva Wolfe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:37:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Eva Wolfe on 27/05/2010 09:38:07
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Eva Wolfe
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You realize that looting while ratting is a complete waste of time anyway, right?
If you were in the drone regions you would soon realise that if you did not loot you would not be earning any income at all.
Do drones drop turrets? ;)
Well as you did not specify which rats and just made a general comment, that is the reason you got that answer.
But as to do drones in the drone regions dropping turrets they don't, they also don't have any bounties on them and the loot is just alloys unless you kill a rare one then you get fairly useless drone parts.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:46:00 -
[24]
Quote:
For someone involved in ingame consulting thats a bit ignorant considering most people you audit probably started their fortunes in this way!
I have to know their tricks in order to do my "job". I have the detailed numbers of a sizable sample of people, involved from reactions to T2 production, from missioning to 5-6 different flavours of trading...
...they all - understandably - try to min max and reap the maximum benefits.
This understandably and fair attempt is not "culprit", it's the fact there exist some preference avenues that yield a degree of reward not proportional with the effort or risk involved.
The fact I audited lots of traders and I think a sub-category of them needs a nerf fits nicely with what I do, it's not "bit ignorant".
If anything you accuse me of not brown nosing my "customers". Well, you rain on the wrong parade, I am nasty, hideous, holier than you attitude, elitist, bast*rd... everything you want. I strive to be impartial, which is my only single objective, despite me having been exactly such 0.0 player, such missioneer and also such station trader. IE on paper I'd be the most interested to try keep these things unnerfed, but then I'd not look at a mirror with a straight face, which I love to do.
Quote:
Do drones drop turrets? ;)
Drones drop some good goo - which tend to screw miners. This patch goo change exactly addressed a bit of that.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Marquis Zenas
I.X Research
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ... snip ...
No parade raining here, I just fail to understand why you think nerfing price wars is a good thing? -------------------------- How do you play the game?
Originally by: Le Skunk Spin an armarda of expensive ships, grandstand in local chat and post on forums
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:06:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Camios on 27/05/2010 10:05:58 lol
It's more lucrative to use the time you need to loot the wrecks to kill some other rats (ok, for drones it's different but their loot has changed in a different way).
And mission rats have been nerfed too.
I completely agree with this change for many reasons.
Go go CCP, and guys, think to miners now
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Eva Wolfe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Drones drop some good goo - which tend to screw miners. This patch goo change exactly addressed a bit of that.
So you are saying that they drop less alloys after the patch.
If that's so seems like they are penalizing combat characters in favour of miners.
In the drone regions ratting I used to make as much as the miners, after I had sold the alloys that I'd looted. So your saying that has now changed in favour of the miners.
Unfortunately that's what this patch seems to have done, penalise combat and improve mining.
As my character is pure combat other than mining lvl 3 then this patch has done me no favours at all.
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Dan Garvin
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:11:00 -
[28]
Maybe you should take up mining.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 27/05/2010 10:11:05
Originally by: Eva Wolfe
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Drones drop some good goo - which tend to screw miners. This patch goo change exactly addressed a bit of that.
So you are saying that they drop less alloys after the patch.
If that's so seems like they are penalizing combat characters in favour of miners.
In the drone regions ratting I used to make as much as the miners, after I had sold the alloys that I'd looted. So your saying that has now changed in favour of the miners.
Unfortunately that's what this patch seems to have done, penalise combat and improve mining.
As my character is pure combat other than mining lvl 3 then this patch has done me no favours at all.
I wonder why CCP even bothersto put out dev blogs and patch notes as, apparently and certainly from the quoted blob above this, NO BODY READS THEM!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:32:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/05/2010 10:32:57
Quote:
No parade raining here, I just fail to understand why you think nerfing price wars is a good thing?
Identify the domain:
a) category: traders b) sub-category 1: station => static arbitrage c) sub-category 2: 0.01ISK => high volume, bot facilitating strategy
a) Means a potentially top wealth profession. It also means meta-PvP, initial investment (or a decent effort to get to pass a viability income thresold), skills that won't help for PvP or other nice activities, having to purchase standings and so on.
Therefore a complex risk vs reward vs effort mechanism surfaces.
0.01ISK station trading is where a lot of reward comes with the least risk and effort, that is it's a possible tangent path eligible for examination.
b) In the light of above, static arbitrage is a "no skill" act where you just flip orders. In fact, there are basic bots able to do this, that's how simple it is. This means that reward has to not be on par with riskier / more difficult other trading strategies.
Station implies: immunity to wardecs. No need to learn any flight skills. Immunity to gankers. Complete safety even if such trader was in 0.0. No dead time due to shipping. Couriers will eventually take all the risk for an awful pittance if some limited need to move stuff arises. Less downsides if bio-massing is needed (I let you figure out why). No need to learn and use other markets. No need for analysis since everything is right here.
Again, imo this means less reward is due than other traders who withstand the factors above.
c) High volume means: lagging the server (see Jita), killing spreads so other forms of trading suffer. It also means keeping open positions costs basically nothing. This encourages multi-spread strategies (to corner other trades) which in turn further clog the server down. Finally, by having such small deltas, new positions are so predictable that NPC taxes can be exploited to their minimum. Due to the predictability of the model, bots are used (exactly for the most intense markets), with obvious unfair consequences on the "real" humans.
This means c) is a model not to encourage for the better comfort of other players (lag, crash...) and to keep the game cleaner off bots. Therefore not to reward more than other forms of trading.
Quote:
So you are saying that they drop less alloys after the patch
Did you miss the many patch notes stating exactly the details, despite you are apparently the most affected target?
Quote:
Unfortunately that's what this patch seems to have done, penalise combat and improve mining.
Unfortunately, it's what CCP implied (and not just implied) several times before this expansion.
Quote:
As my character is pure combat other than mining lvl 3 then this patch has done me no favours at all
Look at the bright side: you were not screwed in your only specialty (that yielded you no PvP ability at all and a FAR worse sell value for the character) for years like others have been till today.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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