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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:55:00 -
[1]
Was there a problem and they just couldn't fix it, so they'd rather get rid of it?
Any more "options" CCP want to get rid of...say, "sound" maybe?
I've heard there have been a few issues with that..time to trash it? |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.29 06:19:00 -
[2]
Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001% -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.29 06:50:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001%
I used it... :'-( Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 06:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001%
I used it... :'-(
so did I.
But those damn macro players where using it to their advantage.
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001%
I used it... :'-(
so did I.
But those damn macro players where using it to their advantage.
I bet they use the overview to their advantage
NERF OVERVIEW
Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Zenku Marku
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
I used it... :'-(
so did I. But those damn macro players where using it to their advantage.
I bet they use the overview to their advantage NERF OVERVIEW
CCP would never do that, that would just be redic...
oh wait...
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zenku Marku
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
I used it... :'-(
so did I. But those damn macro players where using it to their advantage.
I bet they use the overview to their advantage NERF OVERVIEW
CCP would never do that, that would just be redic...
oh wait...
You didn't want to know how far that interceptor was anyway.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:30:00 -
[8]
It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Clone 1
Ministry of Mojo
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:32:00 -
[9]
I bet more people used widescreen that AlienFX lights.
-------------------------------------------------- I got ganked at Za'Ha'Dum, but I am ok now. |
Nac MacFeegle
Argyll Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clone 1 I bet more people used widescreen that AlienFX lights.
Perhaps, but understand that the AlienFX code is most likely just a small chunk of code that does nothing but sit there, wait for an event, and then send a message to the AlienFX controller saying "hey, do this."
Far less complex than maintaining the graphic interface. Heck, I bet someone coded and tested the AlienFX bit during their lunch break...
-- WARNING: Poster has probably been drinking. Proceed with caution.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
The same as Linux. And classic graphics. And medium shader. Now widescreen.
Why not just stop developing the game, and sit on the money you have already? Eve is just so expensive to maintain.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente AAA.FSI Holding Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:37:00 -
[12]
I use it, as I use a 19" widescreen, alternatively a laptop w. 17" widescreen. It looked better that way and that was aestetically pleasing - also, it made me have room for more on my screen in terms of overview, chat channels.
I am very sorry to see it go and I doubt if anyone has the gall to call me a macro user... ***** Empress of the Multiverse *****
CEO of AAA.FSI Holding |
Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
So you removed it knowing that some players used it for legitimate reason and leave it to them to find a suitable alternative? That doesn't sound like you care much about it.
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Arvano
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:40:00 -
[14]
Is the current option not fine? I mean, I bought a 22 inch widescreen monitor yesterday and set it to... 1980x(something) and it fills up the whole screen and I've got tons of room and everything looks lovely. What's the problem?
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:46:00 -
[15]
No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Ecatherina W
Gallente AAA.FSI Holding Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:54:00 -
[16]
Eris, your layout is crappy, to be honest. The fact that the windows do not stay locked in position, but slide all over the place, fx. I have to attach my fleet/broadcasts windows to my drone window to keep them appearing in the same position and when flying logistics, you need your windows in just the right position.
I am sure you guys have all kinds of reasons for reducing the useability of this game, but that gives me one more reason for rethinking my need to play this game. Over the last 14 days I have played Heroes of Might and Magic II more than I have played Eve - and that comes from a player who has 7 active accounts, has had up to 15 active accounts and used to love this game over everything in life, just about.
Reason? CCP is ****ing up my gaming experience with increase lag, Jita being closed more than open, abusing my time by forcing me to have to remove all contacts and standings prior to Tyrannis to protect my privacy, and then not giving a rats arse about customer feedback in that and other matters. And now you take away my widescreen setting.
Feel free to contact me in game if you want a deeper response on how I feel. Hey, I will call you if you give me a phonenumber. I don't care much about the game at this point and that is sad, since I have now played for a bit more than 4 years and I used to be a great advocate of Eve both in game and out, if I have to say to myself. ***** Empress of the Multiverse *****
CEO of AAA.FSI Holding |
Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:17:00 -
[17]
It was pointless, glad it's gone. ---
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:21:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Swiftgaze on 29/05/2010 10:22:27
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
I just nearly spilled milk out of my nose XD
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways...
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
It's a bit sad and late that you want to keep an eye on the discussion now.
There may not have been a huge threadnaught about it before the patch but several people mentioned that removing widescreen is a step into the wrong direction.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tippia on 29/05/2010 10:49:15
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
àsuch as "don't make pinned windows transparent". I mean really, "it gives you your more space"?! How? Did it magically increase the pixel count on your display or reduce font/icon size for all windows?
What did widescreen actually do aside from slap two black bars across the display? It had to be something for that argument to make any kind of sense (and, tbh, for the "difficult to maintain" to make any sense)à ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:58:00 -
[22]
I tried the widescreen option many times to help figure out which modules are active. My solution to the problem was to only run missions in systems with black skies, since widescreen gave me claustrophobia.
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Dorotent
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
What did widescreen actually do aside from slap two black bars across the display?
And that's why I liked it and used it on my widescreen monitor; I found it much easier to read HUD and targets locked etc on a black background. Several of my local systems have VERY garish nebulae in them, and reading white/red/yellow icons on white/red/yellow isn't easy.
Also, I kept a couple of chats against that black backdrop for better visibility.
(If I'm a pod pilot with synthetic senses why can't I dial down the brightness on selected objects / remove them from view completely with some right clicks?)
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Daan Sai
OHiTech
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:10:00 -
[24]
I used it, mostly so that the HUD and modules had a uniformly dark background - the green glows and white clocks get lost on bright backgrounds. Also text for the system name etc were easier to read.
The stronger perspective in the widescreen mode looked nicer IMHO.
Turn it off when scanning planets, but let us use it for normal ops.
Alternatives:
Allow the user to chose colors and brightness/darkness for module highlights, or let us put a darkened rectangle behind the module display.
Daan
--------------------------------- Internet Submarines is Serious Business ---------------------------------
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chuck starlighter
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:11:00 -
[25]
I used it because it gave the the black band top and bottom so you could see your modules and targets on the screen easyer, you got no interferance from the stars or suns going behind the icon and swamping them out.
Also on a side note after creating the lovely new skin and shape for the scorp how come you spoil it by alowing the flame from the engine to show through the side of the engine at certain angles looks a bit crap to be honest. Does this on probably most ships but thought you might have sorted it on a totally new ship shape.
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SirRalph
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
The same as Linux. And classic graphics. And medium shader. Now widescreen.
Why not just stop developing the game, and sit on the money you have already? Eve is just so expensive to maintain.
So CCP should do what you want just because you want to play games with useless OS, crappy GFX card and crappy graphics?
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JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:25:00 -
[27]
CCP are removing features again?
'Premium MMO' indeed
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:29:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
I'm partially colourblind. At no point in my four years of EVE did I ever think that any UI/accessibility/colour suggestions or desires would actually get any attention from CCP. I mean, CCP hasn't even responded to the Assembly Hall thread about the in-game font. Asking for a particular colour to be customisable (eg, the red used in damage bars and for NPC brackets) would probably garner the same level of response.
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Rouge Huntress
Battleships and Luxury yachts
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:31:00 -
[29]
The Widescreen option was very useful to me to see at a glance what the status of my modules was. There are quite a few missions out there that have a very bright surrounding, which eclipse the module backlighting. Thus making it a bit difficult to see their status at any given point.
And as for the top part, the locked targets are on top of the black part making them more legible.
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:36:00 -
[30]
Lol, I bugreported some problems with widescreen and they told me that they had been fixed.. now I know how.
BTW I used widescreeen because the black stripe behind modules let you understand better and faster if those modules are active (for example cloak).
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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:43:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Virtuozzo on 29/05/2010 11:55:15
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
Eris dear,
I am sorry but that does not make sense. EVE does not feature a full spec of usability design, alright fair enough, but these things should be fairly obvious. Never tamper with what serves as an element of redundancy for users with visual deficiencies.
I'm one of those, I might add. In my case you've basically condemned me to Planetary Interaction, which considering the extreme click & repetition action ratios is really not a fun experience for someone who is quite used to playing EVE for what it was designed to revolve around: blowing stuff up.
In practical terms, you can think of Heat & Module Status, the small icons attached to targeted icons, shield status, and so forth.
I bugreported the case, and was told in the bugreport that for feature requests I should try a section of the EVE forums. That was outright insulting, even more so then the venture of interfering with gameplay where simple priorities would have prevented this.
As for the macro angle, you made me curious, I enjoy my anti stress time suiciding exhumers so you actually made me go out looking and digging.
The time until the first downtime after the patch, the usual systems were remarkably empty. I was surprised, could CCP actually be right with this? Well, downtime came and passed, and all the little macros resurfaced. I was apalled, so I turned to Google.
Unsurprisingly, the macros have adapted. Far better then the people with visual deficiencies are able to adapt - for friggin obvious reasons. I mean, once again I should point out to something called the technology race. You come up with a better armour, your opponent invests in a better bullet. Rinse and repeat. It never ends. Except for real people, for those it does end, since they cannot adapt their eyes or grow new ones. The macro argument is basically marketing bull****. Just think about it for a moment, and you will see it for what it is.
If I may highlight two things there.
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your.
So you knew, and you think it might be a good idea to figure out, but made zero efforts whatsoever to find out. No survey, no inventory, no research, nothing.
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Once again, I'm sorry, but that is simply pointing to the syndrome of Iterations. CCP does not DO iterations, it is neither part of planning, budgetting nor strategic vision. It is a concept which does not even fit in the management framework for the product. It's been 7 years, even new arrivals learn within a week or two that it is just marketing and nothing more.
I am very sorry dear, but here is the fundamental issue: In order to deal with a single UI bug in Widescreen format, and in order to hamper macros from EVE for about 10 hours, you have removed most of the elements in the client which enabled people with visual deficiences to play EVE for PVP and PVE alike in a reasonably comfortable style.
I am sorry, but it's an insult to the user with visual deficiencies. I hope that is worth the cost, which is not a cost carried by your, but by us.
By all means, more parties sipping champaign for senior staff during patches like these.
≡v≡
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Kyusoath Orillian
Haters Gonna Hate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 29/05/2010 11:52:45
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
so you care about feedback AFTER you decided to remove widescreeen, medium shader, classic gfx client.
you pretend to care a lot when its too late to matter what we think.
what do you actually do at ccp ? or is it that your boyfriend works in there and he got you this 'job' ? do you make the tea ? i'd rather hear nothing from the devs than this PR whitewash bull**** you drones keep dribbling.
and the **** about macros needing widescreen is classic ccp bull****. the work around is already out there anyone with google can see it for themselves.
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Natalie Caladan
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:51:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 29/05/2010 11:52:53
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001%
I used it too~!
If we could get another background for at least the ship menu I'd be happy, with some very light background I can hardly see if my turrets are firing or not, which is quite user unfriendly.
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Mynxee
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Come on. You can actually sit there and say with a straight face that NO ONE responsible for making decisions about the removal of this feature had a clue about the impact on accessibility!? This ain't rocket science...we're talking modern software design practices here. Did it never occur to CCP to perhaps conduct a little discussion in the forums before brute-force changing the game or making it practically unplayable for many with visual limitations?
Who knows how the widescreen was coded. But if you really care about your users with visual limitations--and through association those of us who enjoy playing with them--find an alternative. An optional layer off by default but that they can enable which provides a black bar top and bottom of customizable width or something simple like that.
You're never going to win the race against macroers, but every user you smack in the face with heavy-handed, insensitive, stupid removal of features with no notice is one more person whose subscription fees you're likely to lose forever. I don't think CCP can afford that kind of thinking anymore.
Life In Low Sec |
Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
One of the prime rules of UI & Usability design is that if you cannot quantify the ratio of users affected by UI elements or visual deficiences you provide for elements of redundancy (traditionally colour controls and contrast elements) in order to not get lost in a downhill slope of affecting user experiences.
So yes, you cannot reach all users in order to undertake full inventories or engage in research. That is why such rules exist in the first place. You do not hamper those elements of design which provide elements of redundancy.
Please don't take it the wrong way dear, but we are not data. Customers are people. Those macros aren't, but they can adapt.
≡v≡
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:38:00 -
[36]
Like any suggestion about the UI will ever (a) make it to CCP (b) get any attention from CCP, or (c) actually get implemented.
Think of this topic as a write-only document. No ****er is gonna actually read it. |
iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mynxee
I don't think CCP can afford that kind of thinking anymore.
You mean CCP cannot afford applying Agile to management anymore ...
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:57:00 -
[38]
Personally I don't care either way as I don't use the feature but Virt successfully cornered CCP here, simply because he's right and makes perfect sense.
For some reason there's a whole lot of things that get changed for reasons us players don't see and possibly get negatively affected by yet other (UI) issues we DO see and very much would like to see adressed never happen.
It's like CCP plays a completely different EVE than their customers.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 29/05/2010 13:06:56
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult
You're joking right?
Quote:
No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
Discussion? What discussion? I don't remember a discussions about it. I can't say for sure that it was in the patch notes as I only read them a couple of times, but was it? Cuz I don't remember seeing it.
Why don't you stop patronizing us and just tell it like it is, huh?
Quote: Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
Another joke perhaps? You haven't substantially renovated the UI in what? Since the beginning? People have been crying for more screen space for what? Since the beginning?
I use a 22" CRT 4:3 monitor. I use it because I prefer 4:3 for most things computers and I picked it up on craigslist for $15 ;) And an added bonus is it heats my entire home through the winter. Out of that 22" screen I have about a 4"x4" piece of screen real estate with which to look at your pretty game unfettered.
The widescreen feature actually gave me the appearance of a widescreen in that context, letterbox.....oh how I love thee.
CCP, I hadn't really notice the widescreen being gone until this thread. That's because I played the game for one or two days and discovered you replaced 80% of my ingame income with metal scrap and I hadn't played since. Thank you SO much CCP for this additional value-removed feature.
Why don't you stop calling us customers or a community and just call us your paychecks or cash cows or a bunch of dumb f**ks? You obviously don't give a rat's ass. You've made paupers out of some of us and friggin gazillionaires out billionaires. Thank you thank you thank you CCP. This widescreen removal is just the icing on the cake. I'm so done with this game.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mr Kidd I'm so done with this game.
Stuffs. Gimme. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:12:00 -
[41]
I also used the widescreen option to have a more aesthetic look of eve.
It nicely seperated part of the UI like locked targets and the command hud from the ingame graphics. This made it easier to spot things and gave better control of the situation.
So, since we lost the classic client, the medium shaders and now widescreen, and have introduced evegate, why is there still no client with lowlevel vector graphics?
It might even improve the lag in the fleetbattles if you could turn it down to wireframe graphics.
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Ny'Tesh Auler
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:25:00 -
[42]
I am color blind, so thank you for removing something that made me understand the game better because i get confused as hell now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Doublewhopper So, since we lost the classic client, the medium shaders and now widescreen, and have introduced evegate, why is there still no client with lowlevel vector graphics?
It might even improve the lag in the fleetbattles if you could turn it down to wireframe graphics.
Because it wouldn't affect lag in the slightest. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Doublewhopper I also used the widescreen option to have a more aesthetic look of eve.
It nicely seperated part of the UI like locked targets and the command hud from the ingame graphics. This made it easier to spot things and gave better control of the situation.
For these same aesthetic and usability reasons I also ran in "widescreen" mode (should probably have been called "letterbox").
It is pretty sad that something was dropped, initially without any mention whatsoever in the patch notes, under the excuse of "macroers were abusing it". Well frankly macroers are abusing many other things in the client/network already but at some point you have to ask how much of an impact changes will have on the rest of the players...
I will also point out that the original reason given for its removal was that there was an issue with the new cameras. I can believe that as being the main issue because of something I noticed on sisi a few weeks ago.
Fullscreen Shot | Widescreen Shot
I prefer a black background behind the HUD (and also the locked targets but for me that is less of an issue) because it makes it far easier to tell when modules such as cloaks are running. Especially with the new brighter stars and some systems with greenish nebula.
I look forward to discussing this further.
TeaDaze.net |
Lost Wander
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:42:00 -
[45]
I am/was an other fan of the widescreen feature since I thought it made eve look 'nicer' and the letterbox aspect of it. E.g. Like a movie.
CCP really needs to work on documentation of their changes and put them in the patch notes.
Seriously. You messed up for not communicating the change.
Man up and take ownership of your mistake in communication.
Just because you don't think it is important your paying customers may disagree.
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:38:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 29/05/2010 14:38:26
Originally by: TeaDaze Fullscreen Shot | Widescreen Shot
That.. good lord, that perspective is horrible, how could you stand to play like that? How did it even end up squished vertically instead of horizontally? My head hurts, I.. ew x.X Brown note screenshot, bleh.
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TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:03:00 -
[47]
Edited by: TeaDaze on 29/05/2010 15:05:47
Originally by: Ti'anla Edited by: Ti''anla on 29/05/2010 14:48:18
Originally by: TeaDaze Fullscreen Shot | Widescreen Shot
That.. good lord, that perspective is horrible, how could you stand to play like that? How did it even end up squished vertically instead of horizontally? My head hurts, I.. ew x.X Brown note screenshot is bleh.
You miss the point. This is not what widescreen (or letterbox) mode looked like on TQ. These shots were from the test server shortly after Tyrannis was made available for testing.
My point was that rather than the macroer justification for the removal of widescreen mode (which may still be a factor) it seems it was bugged and they decided to drop the feature rather than fix it...
TeaDaze.net |
nailtrix
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:10:00 -
[48]
Whether it is widescreen revamp or other name... The UI needs some serious help. A lot of people are able to kick resolutions up to 1980x1200 now and aside from the chat box, you need magnifying glasses to view most if not all the other windows in EvE, thus making it extremely difficult to view. How do they expect people to view the overview when it is just 1cm in size.....? Am hoping there is a fix for this I do not know about and that I can resize the text in overview and other areas of the game besides the chat window.
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C Black
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rouge Huntress The Widescreen option was very useful to me to see at a glance what the status of my modules was. There are quite a few missions out there that have a very bright surrounding, which eclipse the module backlighting. Thus making it a bit difficult to see their status at any given point.
And as for the top part, the locked targets are on top of the black part making them more legible.
SO true,
C Black Looking for old friends of WISHSONG corp... |
Seismic Stan
Greenbeard's Freebooters
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:46:00 -
[50]
Perhaps a simple fix would be to provide customisable drop-shadows for UI items. That would return the functionality that helped those with sight-problems.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Seismic Stan Perhaps a simple fix would be to provide customisable drop-shadows for UI items. That would return the functionality that helped those with sight-problems.
Or give the UI element containers a backdrop, regardless of whether the user has control over which colour to use. Still wouldn't help with using the widescreen function as a way to improve framerates on mac clients however.
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Jhared Skyfire
Gallente The Environmental Management Team
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:20:00 -
[52]
Another option - let players choose a different color scheme for module activation, ie instead of green/red, how about blue/yellow for the red/green colorblind folks. I know of a few colorblind people who play, and something this simple should be easy to code if activation status uses a simple flag.
Also, the ability to resize/scale ui elements would be helpful for those with visual impairments. On large screen, being able to scale the central module/ship status display for shields remaining, gun activation etc to twice the base size would indeed help people with poor vision.
The option of reducing fullscreen resolution (1280x800 on a 1920x1200 screen) is not an acceptable alternative
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Mahai Ano
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:13:00 -
[53]
So yet again, "Why fix what ain't broken" became "Why fix what is broken" and CCP removet it instead.
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Mendicarp
Caldari The Collective
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:14:00 -
[54]
yet another THIS SUXS move by ccp, I suggest you pull ur thumbs outta ur *******s and reinstate the option, or maybe you finally showing ur true colours in as much as you spend an inordinate amount of time pontificating about how you interact with the userbase so on and so forth blah blah blah blah blah blah............................... and you pull a stunt like this with absolutely **** all interaction......nice move. it just says out loud to ur customers F**k you we dont give a **** about ya, just keep sending us your money you saps!
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Terrax Norik
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:19:00 -
[55]
And people wonder why Devs don't post more often on the forums.
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Daan Sai I used it, mostly so that the HUD and modules had a uniformly dark background - the green glows and white clocks get lost on bright backgrounds. Also text for the system name etc were easier to read.
Exactly why I used it as well. For PvP it was much more useful to have it in black background.
And as someone already mentioned, fighting macros whit this was not successful, they have already adopted. And people with vision problem can NOT adopt.
I think it would be the time to do some changes. Like different font, so the 0, 8, 9 would be easier to see. Change the color of module activation, overheat etc.
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MadMuppet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:20:00 -
[57]
Edited by: MadMuppet on 29/05/2010 18:21:13 Since I'm guessing that widescreen is dead forever, can I make a couple recommendations to a future improvement to the game ? (any of these would help)
-Allow for a background on targets and slots so that there can be contrast (ie a local box around the icon spread out maybe 5 pixels around the object)
-Allow for the targets and high/med/low slot icons to 'always be on top' so I can stick my cargo window under them so I can see them clearly.
-Add a digital counter to the middle of the high/med/low slots that displays a numerical percentage of the timing ring (much like we already have for shields, armor, and hull)
-Allow for the reduction in brightness of stellar objects (deadspace gass clouds for example)so that we can see what we are doing.
Two pencils, sharpened to a razor-like point, are my only defense. |
Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:40:00 -
[58]
I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:20:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/05/2010 19:22:56
All these problems could be solved tomorrow by opening the UI to customization. But of course, that will never happen.
edit:
Quote: I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
Way to not read a single post in the thread before throwing in your (worthless) opinion. A lot of people have visual issues - a lot of people have need for assistance with "pixel colour detection."
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Joe Astor
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
I used it in missions frequently. When you are in a blinding cloud and all you can see is white light all around you, you couldn't see what modules you had on or off. Widescreen cropped the screen nicely so that you could see without any hassle.
Perhaps CCP could make an option to have a black background behind the modules, for such situations?
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Clone 1
Ministry of Mojo
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:42:00 -
[61]
Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007
Linkage
I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there. -------------------------------------------------- I got ganked at Za'Ha'Dum, but I am ok now. |
Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/05/2010 19:22:56
All these problems could be solved tomorrow by opening the UI to customization. But of course, that will never happen.
edit:
Quote: I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
Way to not read a single post in the thread before throwing in your (worthless) opinion. A lot of people have visual issues - a lot of people have need for assistance with "pixel colour detection."
Thanks for proving my point :) --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Shintai I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
Gosh, your absolutely right! I bet macroers would have a serious problem abusing the overview, local and all mods if they were removed too!
Do or do better without? lol-wutt? You can't be serious. Having that boarder (besides being esthetically pleasing) made *EVERYTHING* pinned there show up better. Mods, targets, everything popped out - which I made use of in every skirmish I've been in for the last 2 years...
Anything pinned against that black backdrop was important... flying now is dam near a squint fest...
Look, if that "wide screen" or "letter box" view was so difficult to code, give us an "OPT-IN" feature that gives us some kind of "highlight" background.
I realize you don't like "Opt-in" and increasing UI functionality...
but it would be nice... Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:59:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Shintai I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
So you say CCP introduced a feature that had no purpose besides helping macroers? And now they removed that feature?
Now that's an amazing insight...
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NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:06:00 -
[65]
Gather 'round, and let me tell you about my life as a colour blind man trying to see the shades of red and green CCP use on the module buttons, and how agonizing it is trying to see those against a backdrop of screaming bright suns and nebulae. Sure was nice when I could have that little black bar perfectly set over my modules so I could see the bastards.
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Joe Astor
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Clone 1 Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007
Linkage
I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there.
Nice! I like the ewar stuff and the drone circle
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Mr Waran
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:13:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Mr Waran on 29/05/2010 20:13:42 This was awesome of you CCP for the record.
I am now back to the fine art of GUESSING how much damage there is on my modules.
I suffer from Deuteranopia pretty badly, I can't pick up the level of heat on modules at all now.
You should feel blessed that I am used to doing this so I don't think its a big deal, still really annoying and shouldn't be too hard to fix.
Ars Techinca Explains how Deuteranopia effects gamers
Read that, find understanding and seek a better fix please. You won't because you don't care (obviously) or you would have done so, or you would have been a lot more sympathetic in your responses.
Meanwhile I'll go back to getting yelled at by my corp mates for failing at overheating.
Its fine I'm used to it...
*sigh*
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:20:00 -
[68]
I agree that it was pretty pointless. It wasn't widescreen at all, it just made it "look" widescreen for those without widescreen monitors (ie: letterbox bars at top and bottom). Why would you want part of your view arbitrarily hidden? --------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:21:00 -
[69]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 29/05/2010 20:26:30
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Make the main view a window itself, or let the sides be dragged inwards to provide whatever aspect ratio is desired. The code already exists in the preview window, doesn't it?
Originally by: Clone 1 Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007
Linkage
I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there.
Stop showing us all what could be when CCP will never deliver. _ Oh, mighty pole-up-ass-ee! The link to a page which did not even leave the domain which you clicked entirely voluntarily and so deeply offended you has been removed! Cheeez |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:53:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/05/2010 19:22:56
All these problems could be solved tomorrow by opening the UI to customization. But of course, that will never happen.
edit:
Quote: I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.
Way to not read a single post in the thread before throwing in your (worthless) opinion. A lot of people have visual issues - a lot of people have need for assistance with "pixel colour detection."
Thanks for proving my point :)
Your point seems to be that you cannot read or process written information very well.
May I suggest enabling widescreen mode?
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:04:00 -
[71]
So you're saying you removed the option and you'll fix the UI SoonTM, right?
Right.
You guys are a joke.
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Lashnar
Caldari LEGEND OF THE SHADOW GUARD
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:36:00 -
[72]
wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.
But how the heck did wide screen help macros? Welcome to EVE. |
iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:55:00 -
[73]
Edited by: iP0D on 29/05/2010 22:57:18
Originally by: Terrax Norik And people wonder why Devs don't post more often on the forums.
EVE is a cold and dark place they invented, etc. Truth be told, I can recall days where the Devs themselves outtrolled the players, even boarded CONCORD ships to crack down on players when those went overboard
Also, this thread sofar is a nice example of both presenting frustration, emotion as well as suggestions and explanations to the causes, which tie right back to a common theme which has been growing quite worse.
So, that was a pretty silly remark.
Let's be honest for a moment. Everything that has piled up sofar in recent years can be traced right back to segregation, accelerated planning, overload in tasking and the application of Agile to management. How much longer till EVE turns legacy I do wonder.
Originally by: Kyra Felann I agree that it was pretty pointless. It wasn't widescreen at all, it just made it "look" widescreen for those without widescreen monitors (ie: letterbox bars at top and bottom). Why would you want part of your view arbitrarily hidden?
Because it helps with contrast so people with visual deficiences can still work around - for example - not seeing the colour of Heat status, or the small icons of weapons, etc.
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MadMuppet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:55:00 -
[74]
wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.
But how the heck did wide screen help macros? Welcome to EVE.
Much like grabbing a yellow can outside a station labelled 'free stuff', the action of discribing a game exploit in here would most likely result in 'bad stuff happening' to the poster.
Two pencils, sharpened to a razor-like point, are my only defense. |
Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:08:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lashnar wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.
But how the heck did wide screen help macros?
I've never used widescreen myself, or indeed macros, but from what I can surmise is that it would allow better pixel/colour recognition.
Eris's comment reminds me of a conversation I had with my manager the other day. I am basically a debt collector with spreadsheets, and I'm in charge of a high number of low value accounts. I use a number of methods not generally used by those who cover the larger value account to ensure coverage. Let's say I cover 80% of the number of accounts, but <5% of the total ledger value. My boss supposed that given my salary, the time spent, and the return gained, that particular duty might not be worth the companys time and money.
We would be (potentially) be prepared to forego these customers for future business, as my process is generally pretty brutal. We just wouldn't deal with this type of customer any longer. They're only a small part of our bottom line, who cares. We can't deal with the collections process, so we (potentially) won't accept the work. Got a small job? Take it elsewhere, we don't have time to deal with your petty requests.
The analogy is that my company is pretty much willing to lose a large amount of customers, because we can't support a niche requirement for this group. On the books, doesn't make much of a difference, but taken to an extreme, we've lost >500 customers.
My Facebook! |
Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:23:00 -
[76]
Could CCP please tell us what % of clients had the Widescreen "feature" enabled. ---
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Susitna
Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:09:00 -
[77]
I used widscreen and I want it back. The UI in this game is horrid and the widescreen mode made it easier to see the UI.
Bring it back please.
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Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting United Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:42:00 -
[78]
I'm sorry, but I want to add my rant to this thread. Given has how I don't usually post, much less rant, please understand that I am particularly mad.
I used this feature. The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.
I'm sorry, but this is just upsetting.
Vol Jbolaz Odinsdagrting CEO Blog, @vol_jbolaz |
Borun Tal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:45:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Borun Tal on 30/05/2010 00:46:22
Originally by: Terrax Norik And people wonder why Devs don't post more often on the forums.
Speaking as a developer myself, I can say that the decision to remove the option being discussed was most likely done at management level, not by an individual developer. Ease up on the devs, they're not the ones making the ****-poor decisions (or lack of decisions, as the case may be).
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:00:00 -
[80]
Wow, so ANOTHER stoke of genus CCP had for the worthless patch.
Way to go guys. ------------------------
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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:08:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Derus Grobb Could CCP please tell us what % of clients had the Widescreen "feature" enabled.
They don't track these things. Also, see the comment of Eris Discordia earlier in the thread on having no data .. loving to have insight .. but removing regardless of either case or efforts in support of either case.
≡v≡
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:56:00 -
[82]
Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers? |
Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:33:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Noun Verber Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers?
Can't discuss Macro's functionality, as I have no idea (but I would imagine that it has something to do with color variations?).
For those colorblind (or limited color discernment) who only see in shades of gray/white/black, having your mods over the black background made it much easier to see if mods were active, damage from heat, etc. Having the Overview set over the black background made all the targets on your OV much more visible.
Now (especially in nebula systems) it has become much harder for the colorblind/challenged, or those of us with old eyes to see some of the information that you *really* need when engaged...
squinting during combat FTL....
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Woodwraith
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:38:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Woodwraith on 30/05/2010 02:44:01
Originally by: Noun Verber Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers?
I'm not sure whats kosher to say in regards to macros, so my post might get replaced with a little bit of yellow text, but...
Having the black bands at the top and bottom of the screen where the icons pop up makes it easier to code logic for a mining bot, instead of having to 's-c-r-a-p-e'(lol) a whole bunch of pixels to put together an idea of whats going on, you just need to say wether or not a pixel is 0,0,0 But taking it away doesn't really change much, all the icons are still static locations, so its trivial to just change the scraping code. Exactly why it stopped the bots for about 12 hours, till the coders patched the logic and put it online. Now the bots work again, and you still can't see whats locked. Hell, had they been a little more dedicated they could have done it on the test server and run the macro update while everyone patched, never woulda missed a beat.
ninja edit: Also, I just bought an Acer laptop with a REALLY widescreen format, and without the widescreen option, I cant get a windowed client to work right, I wind up missing the bottom bit of the screen for an area as tall as the window title area, so everytime I have a brain fart and minimized the scanner i have to fullscreen, move it back, and then window the client again before my alt gets ganked in a fight.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:49:00 -
[85]
CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:
we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.
In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.
I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Hecatonis
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:55:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:
we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.
In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.
I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.
with all the wine is see in your posts can i have your stuff?
you seem very unhappy with this game, but you still spend money and/or time with it.
maybe its time you head out into the sun, and laid and step away for a bit
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Woodwraith
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.05.30 03:02:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Hecatonis
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:
we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.
In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.
I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.
with all the wine is see in your posts can i have your stuff?
you seem very unhappy with this game, but you still spend money and/or time with it.
maybe its time you head out into the sun, and laid and step away for a bit
And I'm sure you toss everything in your life thats the least bit sub-optimal out to the trash eh? The fact that we spend money and time on this game is what gives us a reason and a right to be critical of decision's that don't seem to be in anyone's best interests. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.30 03:18:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.
Wow. Just, wow. --------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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MadMuppet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 04:38:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.
Wow. Just, wow.
Yeah, I twitched when I read that as well. Apples to oranges, and someone added a banana.
You did not see 'more' with widescreen in Eve than you would have with the normal view. What you did see was actually 'less' and that was the central band of graphics on your screen with the top and bottom blacked out.
This had two effects. 1. Higher frame rate since the rendered area for graphics was smaller and had less impact on the graphics card, although I will admit that benefit is only of value on lower end machines(like my struggling laptop). 2. It provided a clear area for players to see their targets and there ship equipment. without harsh background colors destroying the contrast needed to read the instruments quickly and clearly.
For me, with the black upper and lower areas gone I now find myself spinning the camera wildly in a fight to keep my high/med/low slots and my targets out of bright areas of the screen to keep a clear view of what is going on. I would rather be fighting rats and players than having to fight the UI.
As for the comments about 'that is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen...' , um, feel free to email me in game and I can explain why that doesn't apply here.
-MadMuppet
Two pencils, sharpened to a razor-like point, are my only defense. |
Shereza
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Posted - 2010.05.30 06:33:00 -
[90]
I don't see why anyone is surprised or upset over this decision. CCP has systematically been lowering the usability of the UI for the last several years despite any accidental improvements along the way.
Cases in point, the drone window got completely thrashed. It used to be you could clearly see armor, hull, and shield damage and, as I recall, could even see it on drones in your bay. Now you have to launch your drones, or run a repair check while docked, to see if they're damaged and along the way you have to use three bars on one line, henceforth to be called Tiny Ass Bar, instead of on three separate lines which makes it hard to tell the difference between 0 damage and 5% damage at times.
Fleets are another example. While I somewhat like the ability to break fleets down into squads, especially as it more easily lets people with different focuses work on different objectives more easily while remaining in the same fleet instead of having to create multiple fleets/gangs, the fact that we first lost being able to see HP values of gang members, then could see them again on the TAB, and then we had to open up a separate window to view people. What's worse is that they either removed or did a very good job of hiding the ability to add your entire fleet/squad/whatever to the watch bar forcing me to add people individually.
Now, let's look at the TABs. Sure, putting them all on one bar means that we don't have to scroll as much to see multiple drones or fleet members, but I've found that it's really hard to get a truly accurate damage read from them. I see what looks like 40-50% damage, switch to that alt, and they're sitting pretty at 70%. This visual discrepency is minor at levels of 10% or so, such as when a new member joins a fleet with the 10% siege warfare bonus, but at around 50% damage on the TAB it's nowhere close on the ship in question, and even when the TAB indicates 30% damage the ship in question is often closer to 40-50% damaged in that field. All of this, however, ignores the fact that these TABs, by relieving us of the need to scroll, can force us to increase the width of our windows beyond that which we would prefer.
Heck, let's look at over-heating. I understand that over-heating can be very useful, even for carebears such as myself, but as it stands the UI makes it too easy to accidentally click on the over-heat mini-button when you click on the module icons instead of using the appropriate Function variant. This may not be a serious issue, but it's still one more niggling little detail to annoy users, whether by having their modules accidentally over-heated or by having to re-click them after reading the message that you don't have the skills for over-heating.
Then there's the multiple issues I've had over the last several years with the windows.
#1 The item/ships window for stations is irrevocably linked to wreck and jet can windows resulting in any moving and resizing of the first two windows to a usable level causing the latter two to take up unacceptable portions of my screen.
#2 Opening my drone window will entirely too often result in it not opening up on the middle left-hand side of my screen where I leave it but instead under my overview, often resizing my overview along the way.
#3 Opening up my market window will often do the same.
#4 Opening up item info windows will often shift my market window and resize the info windows from the default settings, and what's worse is that when I resize the info windows the EVE UI now promptly forgets them.
#5 Having new chat windows opens up now has them no longer opening up on the bar where they should, even when it's multiple windows from the same player, and also requires that I first move them from their initial position before I can drag/drop them onto the chat group lest I have them either move the chat group to another position or have the new window reposition itself so I can't drop it onto the chat group.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2010.05.30 06:40:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Shereza on 30/05/2010 06:48:19 Now don't get me wrong, the UI isn't horrible to use by any stretch of the imagination, but it has lost several key points of functionallity over the years and several "new and improved" aspects of it have introduced a significant amount of frustration and irritation to using it.
Opening up an info window for a railgun and then having your market window moved around with this big huge wide info window above it, thereby resulting in you having to move and all too often resize your market window, isn't that annoying in and of itself. It's when you've had to deal with it for the 200th time that it starts to get on your nerves.
It's when you've had to resize some windows when you dock and then resize their counterparts when you're out in space for the 10th time in an hour or the 500th time in a week that it gets annoying, and it's when you realize that the aforementioned TABs are only really good for WAGs (Wild Ass Guesses) about a ship's status and for hopefully (though except for initial attacks not always) letting you know if an alt is getting attacked.
The UI isn't actively hostile to players, and it generally does the job fairly well, but it has so many minor issues that after playing the game for three or four years they start to get really frustrating, especially when things actually used to be better in some respects. When you're dealing with a game where you expect people to play for years at a time, not just months, those petty annoyances that build up can become serious issues. It gets even more annoying when CCP either keeps taking one step back or taking one step forward and two steps back on UI "improvements."
Even the ability to resize chat fonts is like that. Sure, you can resize the channel fonts in more ways now than you could before, thereby making the text more readable, but the default font is incredibly small and there is no apparent way of making a larger font size the default so every time a window/conversation/channel is opened up for the first time the font needs to be resized, and aside from remembering your clicks it's often fairly hard to make each channel's font size even whereas before with the more limited options it was fairly easy.
I've seen worse though. One game used a client/UI for several years that was very easy to use and worked very well yet they insisted on creating new ones that were harder to use and didn't do the job nearly as well as the old one. CCP, thankfully, isn't like that, but the UI is currently at best as annoying to use now as it was when I started playing nearly four years ago and at worst it's more annoying and frustrating due in part more to new "features" than to annoyance buildup.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Shereza jesus christ great wall of text
I'm not even reading that.
You should quit, as that is one unhappy looking customer.
And no, I don't want your stuff, whatever you have may be catching, and I don't want it.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:15:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Grath Telkin You should quit, as that is one unhappy looking customer.
And how, pray tell, would you come to that conclusion if you refuse to read what I posted? I'm sure we can set aside the minor fact that by your apparent definition this whole topic is a "jesus christ great wall of text" which in turn means you probably haven't ready any of it and makes me wonder why you bothered posting.
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Torque Daisy
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:42:00 -
[94]
i used it 'cos all my module lights kept getting lost in the glowy backgrounds (this game has a terrible UI), was nice to have the black lines.
yes things cost money, yes that is why we pay to play.
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Torque Daisy
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:44:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: Grath Telkin You should quit, as that is one unhappy looking customer.
And how, pray tell, would you come to that conclusion if you refuse to read what I posted? I'm sure we can set aside the minor fact that by your apparent definition this whole topic is a "jesus christ great wall of text" which in turn means you probably haven't ready any of it and makes me wonder why you bothered posting.
they're trying to look cool infront of the forum, probably one of those tl:dr kiddies.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:45:00 -
[96]
Just a suggestion but nearly every system in the game has some black space in it. Try moving your view to put your mods on that so you can see the modual state easier. Granted that won't work for people in a rapidly changing combat situtaion but for everything else it should work just fine.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:26:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Zeba Just a suggestion but nearly every system in the game has some black space in it. Try moving your view to put your mods on that so you can see the modual state easier. Granted that won't work for people in a rapidly changing combat situtaion but for everything else it should work just fine.
The audacity of such a comment is mindboggling.
What is EVE about? PVP. What do people do to support their PVP? PVE.
Think, please. You're starting to sound like a manager stuck in a system where Agile is applied to the doctrine of management.
≡v≡
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:30:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Virtuozzo
Originally by: Zeba Just a suggestion but nearly every system in the game has some black space in it. Try moving your view to put your mods on that so you can see the modual state easier. Granted that won't work for people in a rapidly changing combat situtaion but for everything else it should work just fine.
The audacity of such a comment is mindboggling.
What is EVE about? PVP. What do people do to support their PVP? PVE.
Think, please. You're starting to sound like a manager stuck in a system where Agile is applied to the doctrine of management.
wat?
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:40:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Virtuozzo
The audacity of such a comment is mindboggling.
What is EVE about? PVP. What do people do to support their PVP? PVE.
Think, please. You're starting to sound like a manager stuck in a system where Agile is applied to the doctrine of management.
wat?
Indeed wut?
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Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2010.05.30 16:35:00 -
[100]
Seriously, the widescreen option was a joke. When I first discovered it I laughed, and when I tried it I laughed even harder. Why anyone would use that option is beyond me, and why it was called widescreen is even more strange.
If you want a clearer UI then say that, but bringing back the "fake" widescreen option is not the way to do that. Most people already got widescreen resolutions and widening the viewport more than that really makes the game unplayable.
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.05.30 17:24:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Mella Elcus Seriously, the widescreen option was a joke. When I first discovered it I laughed, and when I tried it I laughed even harder. Why anyone would use that option is beyond me, and why it was called widescreen is even more strange.
If you want a clearer UI then say that, but bringing back the "fake" widescreen option is not the way to do that. Most people already got widescreen resolutions and widening the viewport more than that really makes the game unplayable.
You're somehow missing the point, it would perhaps be an idea to read the actual thread as a whole
"widescreen option" has nothing to do really with widescreen in terms of screen ratios, it was an option they introduced once upon a time, serving as a redundancy element used by people with visual deficiencies as a means of aid in contrast so they could distinguish UI elements which had zero usability design attached. Think of targeting, HUD status, module status, etc. Later on it also helped with framerate issues on mac clients, and in general especially in hectic circumstances and colourfull backgrounds it helps to identify elements much more instinctively - but that is an individual preference many have, and which many others don't have.
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Kirgan
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.30 17:25:00 -
[102]
Like many other posters, I used Widescreen because the black bars made seeing things easier on the UI. When you have a light background seeing the readout or if a module is active, shouldn't require spinning the camera to a dark spot or squinting and leaning into the screen to see it.
Typical response by CCP as usual, remove it rather than fix it and then give a lame excuse.
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Grez
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:13:00 -
[103]
I'm colour blind, and I didn't use it because it made the client look FUGLY.
This thread is just proof that gamers can be incredibly whingy at times. ---
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Stingray City
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:27:00 -
[104]
I suggest to add an option to disable EVE background. Easy solution for this thread's issue. A more involved variation of this idea would be to introduce wallpaper functionality to the EVE client.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente AAA.FSI Holding Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:33:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Stingray City I suggest to add an option to disable EVE background. Easy solution for this thread's issue. A more involved variation of this idea would be to introduce wallpaper functionality to the EVE client.
LOL? As in not being able to look around on the battlefield? I always suspected Morsus Mihi were not doing pvp the way the rest of us do but that comment convinced me.
***** Empress of the Multiverse *****
CEO of AAA.FSI Holding |
Stingray City
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:40:00 -
[106]
??? I meant the background graphics. The brackets and objects on grid are not going anywhere of course :)
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Vladimir Soliara
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Posted - 2010.05.31 18:33:00 -
[107]
I, as it seems most people who used widescreen, used it for the contrast on my modules and the things I had target locked. I find it hard to see what is going on with the bright background. Please either bring Widescreen back, or give us something to replace it with.
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GankuVerymuch
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Posted - 2010.06.01 02:19:00 -
[108]
I used this as well. I liked the way it fit, I just got my windows where I liked them. This option was nice to be able to read your chat, assets and fleet windows along with the module overheat and activation.
the macro excuse doesn't hold water cause they're still here.
Eve needs more ui real estate CCP. cmon guys you can do it.
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.06.01 12:24:00 -
[109]
Originally by: GankuVerymuch I used this as well. I liked the way it fit, I just got my windows where I liked them. This option was nice to be able to read your chat, assets and fleet windows along with the module overheat and activation.
the macro excuse doesn't hold water cause they're still here.
Eve needs more ui real estate CCP. cmon guys you can do it.
To be fair, the macros were gone for about half a day. That has to make it worth it. |
DarkXale
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Posted - 2010.06.01 12:41:00 -
[110]
The people with this problem in question have also checked their monitor to make sure its properly calibrated? No, default settings usually won't do the trick.
No offense, but there are far too many people using a monitor with the wrong brightness/contrast/gamma settings out there (and color if its non-dvi/hdmi), and it is in situations described in this thread that such errors will become apparent.
Just an in-the-meantime suggestion.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.06.01 12:43:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Grez I'm colour blind, and I didn't use it because it made the client look FUGLY.
This thread is just proof that gamers can be incredibly whingy at all times.
Fixed
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.06.01 13:12:00 -
[112]
Let's hope Mac compatibility does not go the way of the Medium Shader. I doubt it though, since Mac users contribute to a large chunk of the customer base (around 17%?) and they'll cancel sub if this happens.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.06.01 13:17:00 -
[113]
Originally by: James Tritanius Let's hope Mac compatibility does not go the way of the Medium Shader. I doubt it though, since Mac users contribute to a large chunk of the customer base (around 17%?) and they'll cancel sub if this happens.
100m on it being "too expensive to maintain" within three years.
Mark my words.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.06.01 13:22:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: James Tritanius Let's hope Mac compatibility does not go the way of the Medium Shader. I doubt it though, since Mac users contribute to a large chunk of the customer base (around 17%?) and they'll cancel sub if this happens.
100m on it being "too expensive to maintain" within three years.
Mark my words.
Sorry but judging from the number of critical bugs (a lot) in the Mac client and the number of fixes (borderline zero) being introduced, I highly doubt it's "too expensive to maintain" at all.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.01 13:34:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: James Tritanius Let's hope Mac compatibility does not go the way of the Medium Shader. I doubt it though, since Mac users contribute to a large chunk of the customer base (around 17%?) and they'll cancel sub if this happens.
100m on it being "too expensive to maintain" within three years.
Mark my words.
When even "omgz, non-MS systems blows!!"-Valve is getting on to the Mac train, it's probably not something you want to jump off of without some serious thoughtà ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Tarac Nor
Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.01 14:53:00 -
[116]
I miss widescreen, i used it on all my clients to help with the viewing of mod active/inactive etc, it also helped me organize my screen.
RIP Widescreen tick box, you shall be missed
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:32:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 01/06/2010 19:32:51
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia We know it was used creatively(colourblind people)
Dude. Nebula are so bright, you need the letterbox to provide a clean black background for UI elements. Has nothing whatsoever to do with colorblindness, but blindness in general.
Quote: It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes.
Yeah, well it's very hard to see UI elements over a bright nebula background due to evolutionary changes.
However, EVE backstory says our exterior views are a synthesized virtual reality perspective rendered from sensor data. So it should be possible for pod pilots to turn down the intensity of nebulas.
Now, the question is: which is harder to code?
1. Widescreen letterbox. 2. Brightness control for space background. 3. Ignore issue and make customers suffer.
I know which one I would bet money on.
-- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2010.06.02 07:26:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 01/06/2010 19:32:51
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia We know it was used creatively(colourblind people)
Dude. Nebula are so bright, you need the letterbox to provide a clean black background for UI elements. Has nothing whatsoever to do with colorblindness, but blindness in general.
Quote: It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes.
Yeah, well it's very hard to see UI elements over a bright nebula background due to evolutionary changes.
However, EVE backstory says our exterior views are a synthesized virtual reality perspective rendered from sensor data. So it should be possible for pod pilots to turn down the intensity of nebulas.
Now, the question is: which is harder to code?
1. Widescreen letterbox. 2. Brightness control for space background. 3. Ignore issue and make customers suffer.
I know which one I would bet money on.
ding ding! winner!!!
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.06.02 07:58:00 -
[119]
What CCP is really trying to say is that all of you visually challenged people can get ****ed, 'cause they don't give a ****.
Confirming that my eyes work and I have a real widescreen monitor
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 08:33:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Tiberizzle What CCP is really trying to say is that all of you visually challenged people can get ****ed, 'cause they don't give a ****.
Confirming that my eyes work and I have a real widescreen monitor
ya think?
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
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Grez
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2010.06.02 09:37:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: James Tritanius Let's hope Mac compatibility does not go the way of the Medium Shader. I doubt it though, since Mac users contribute to a large chunk of the customer base (around 17%?) and they'll cancel sub if this happens.
100m on it being "too expensive to maintain" within three years.
Mark my words.
When even "omgz, non-MS systems blows!!"-Valve is getting on to the Mac train, it's probably not something you want to jump off of without some serious thoughtà
Valve did that due to Steam being a platform to distribute games, and the obvious market opening up on Mac. They had to give something to the Mac people so that Steam on Mac had something initially. No other reason. EVE should be treated differently, as it's not a platform for selling games. ---
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.02 09:44:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Grez Valve did that due to Steam being a platform to distribute games, and the obvious market opening up on Mac. They had to give something to the Mac people so that Steam on Mac had something initially. No other reason. EVE should be treated differently, as it's not a platform for selling games.
The point is: since there is that obvious market opening up on Mac, closing down your established business in that market because it's "too expensive to maintain" doesn't make much sense. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 09:54:00 -
[123]
Define "too expensive to maintain."
Is that code for "too hard to fix."
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Grez
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:18:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Grez Valve did that due to Steam being a platform to distribute games, and the obvious market opening up on Mac. They had to give something to the Mac people so that Steam on Mac had something initially. No other reason. EVE should be treated differently, as it's not a platform for selling games.
The point is: since there is that obvious market opening up on Mac, closing down your established business in that market because it's "too expensive to maintain" doesn't make much sense.
If maintaining a seperate code base entirely, or re-writing the existing one from scratch costs more than the return from likely other platforms, then yes, it's too expensive to maintain.
EVE would have to switch from using DirectX to OpenGL for this to work, which would take some time to do, and in doing so, might void some of their partnerships. Hence they would have to maintain both sets. Not to mention that OpenGL is severely lagging behind DirectX currently (OpenGL 3 was meant to come with much more than it did, and ended up just being an extension of OpenGL 2, which was already an extension of 1). So you'd be tampering with CCP's vision of EVE and how they want you to view it.
And that's just the rendering part of it - the sound engine, network engine, etc - might require a Windows platform or some form of emulation to work properly.
Regardless, this is not about this. Some things in the software industry do not outweigh the cost of maintaining a feature, like seen with the Medium Shader (not enough of the populace used it for them to warrant maintaining an entirely separate shader pipe). ---
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:22:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Grez If maintaining a seperate code base entirely, or re-writing the existing one from scratch costs more than the return from likely other platforms, then yes, it's too expensive to maintain.
àbut that's not what they're doing. The codebase is the same, and the work going into the emulation layer is mostly done by third parties. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Libin Herobi
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:43:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Libin Herobi on 02/06/2010 10:43:39
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Grez Valve did that due to Steam being a platform to distribute games, and the obvious market opening up on Mac. They had to give something to the Mac people so that Steam on Mac had something initially. No other reason. EVE should be treated differently, as it's not a platform for selling games.
The point is: since there is that obvious market opening up on Mac, closing down your established business in that market because it's "too expensive to maintain" doesn't make much sense.
Whether the game market on Mac is increasing or not is not relevant. The only thing that matters is the number of EVE players using Mac. If that number drops / stays belows a certain level the Mac client will be binned.
Remember the Linux client? Gaming on Linux is certainly increasing as well but the Linux client was dropped nonetheless.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Grez If maintaining a seperate code base entirely, or re-writing the existing one from scratch costs more than the return from likely other platforms, then yes, it's too expensive to maintain.
àbut that's not what they're doing. The codebase is the same, and the work going into the emulation layer is mostly done by third parties.
BREAKING NEWS!! Researcher discovered that third party services cost money as well. Development costs do not vanish just because you move the task to someone else.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:59:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Libin Herobi Remember the Linux client? Gaming on Linux is certainly increasing as well but the Linux client was dropped nonetheless.
Yup. It was dropped because they could support it for zero cost, so the movement of the market became rather irrelevantà
àor well, I should say "support" it, really. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Buddy Friend
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:14:00 -
[128]
Is it my imagination, or was widescreen nothing more than blacking out purty space in a bar from the top and the bottom of the viewscreen? It didn't seem to mask anything other than background and objects in space. Brackets weren't masked. Why is this so hard?
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Damiez
Amarr Malum Mortuus
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:52:00 -
[129]
TBH, I stopped looking at the display ages ago, even having the system map up most the time. All I was interested in was who is in my overview, who may be arriving on my directional scan and whats for dinner tonite...
Only switch the graphics on to watch the pretty explosions, and yes, I used Widescreen for that due to partial colour blindness, but I don't miss it..... ________________ Recruitment Open
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Buddy Friend
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:59:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Damiez TBH, I stopped looking at the display ages ago, even having the system map up most the time. All I was interested in was who is in my overview
Heh overview.
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Scylla Prophet
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:38:00 -
[131]
I sure used it. A consistant black background behind the top and bottom of the screen made eve playable.
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Scylla Prophet
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:31:00 -
[132]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
The informationon the screen was very hard to read with the outerspace background. I used wide screen so I could have a solid black background behind the display. It is the same reason I prefer widescreen format for movies because it makes thesubtitles more readable.
I certainly hope you can come up with a solution before my subscription expires.
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Khanoonian Singh
Ramshackle Industrial
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:35:00 -
[133]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
I used it to actually see my modules, chat boxes and overview, the black provided a nice contrast to actually see, where the bright as hell nebulas often washed everything out.
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Vorok
Silver Aria Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.06.03 01:08:00 -
[134]
Please I just want an opaque black bar on the top and bottom of my screen. It was easier to see my modules and targets when I had it. This can't possibly be "hard". It's a pair of black bars. An opaque rectangle. ... I mean, this game renders 3D space ships.
I'm fortune to be only mildly colorblind. Most FPS games have overlays, and they don't bother me. But then again, most FPS games don't have so much information and controls as that in their overlays.
I can see my modules and all those flashing colors delicately crammed onto them. It's just a bit harder now. All of that stuff going on behind my modules forces me to focus harder and spin my camera.
For Color Normals I understand that people with normal vision might not understand this. Removing the widescreen option changed the EVE experience. EVE with a letterbox ranges between uncomfortable and unplayable for some players. That's why it's so important.
Unrelated Sidenote As a side note, remember way back when CCP changed the prerequisite list from red/green boxes to the current check/X? That certainly reduced squinting for some players. There are still things in EVE which could be made better by adding a second visual cue besides color, but that was a good change.
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Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.03 01:33:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Reiisha on 03/06/2010 01:35:26
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Because macros were using it. So it has to die. Good riddance. The percentage of legit players using widescreen: 00.0001%
edit: Never mind, misread. Forgot about the "widescreen" option. Still, as people have pointed out, a lot of them used it simply for visibility - I did aswell, though only when i still had a 5:4 monitor.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Erlork
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Posted - 2010.06.03 15:56:00 -
[136]
me too i want to know why the ui explodes sometimes and sends windows into random areas on the screen.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.03 17:19:00 -
[137]
I used widescreen because I am colorblind. I didn't particularly like it and would appreciate a better solution... but ffs can you bring the new solution before taking away the old one?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Caldrion Dosto
Violent By Design MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.03 17:49:00 -
[138]
Quote: Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked
I call bull**** on this segment of your statement
You have been fine with a lot of things not working properly for years so why start caring now?
And tbh sound could go without anyone complaining, no one uses it anyway..
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.06.03 17:56:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I used widescreen because I am colorblind. I didn't particularly like it and would appreciate a better solution... but ffs can you bring the new solution before taking away the old one?
-Liang
I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Darwinian Evolution.
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Kewso
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Posted - 2010.06.03 18:06:00 -
[140]
Just add option to turn the graphics off completely. Keep the module, overview, chat UI's.
You can do all the same stuff without needing the graphics, then you can just play spreadsheet online.
you don't even need the graphics on to pvp. just click overview, orbit at xxx range, turn on modules, done. when fleet battles are slideshows noone watches the graphics anyhow, it's a overview, text based battles, mud style :)
-grin-
:)
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2010.06.03 18:23:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I used widescreen because I am colorblind. I didn't particularly like it and would appreciate a better solution... but ffs can you bring the new solution before taking away the old one?
-Liang
Think address book folders, no they can't. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Fleet of Doom
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Posted - 2010.06.03 18:26:00 -
[142]
I liked widescreen, as it made stuff across top and bottom of screen easier to see with a black background behind it. Loved it for pvp.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
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Posted - 2010.06.03 19:12:00 -
[143]
Yes, I have an old computer. So I used medium shader to compensate. They took it away. I also used wide screen to ease the load on the machine. They took it away as well. So you say, 'buy a new(er) computer'. True, true.
But that does not take away the fact that I have lousy eyesight and have trouble seeing subtle differences in contrast. And yes, my monitor is configured to the max, so there is nothing to be gained there...
Putting parts of the UI on the black bars in wide screen mode helped a lot to make the game playable for me. As many people in this thread, for the same and various other reasons, have said before me |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.06.03 22:41:00 -
[144]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia It was removed because it became very difficult to maintain due to architectural changes. Every time we develop something new we had to make sure that it also worked with this option and sometimes it required a lot of extra time spent to make it work. The costs started to outweigh the benefit.
We know it was used creatively(colourblind people) but it's good to know how many people used it and for what, what did it solve or fix or do for your. It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.
Except for macroers
I used it because you can't tell if your modules are active or not if you happen to be in an area that has a very brightly colored background (like an interstellar dust cloud type thing). Seriously, I could be perfectly happy about the widescreen going away if I could just see if my modules were active or not in some places.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Uthreignish
Minmatar Stoned Temple Pilots
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Posted - 2010.06.03 22:55:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia No, if we have a better picture of the reason it was used then we can go find a solution that is friendlier to maintain. Sadly our data doesnt show how people used it and why, we only get that information from players so it was diffecult to replace it if we didn't know what the issues were exactly that the widescreen option addressed.
Take the example of 'it gives me more space for the UI windows'. That is a UI problem and can be fixed in several ways, all ways that will be play a lot nicer with the rests of EVE's architecture.
We really appreciate the feedback and we'll keep an eye on the discussions about it.
Mainly because it made the UI more visible against a black background.
For example, the white flashing reticle around your active target can be very difficult to see in brighter systems, inside a nebula. Its much easier to determine whether some modules are activated or not on a black background.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:38:00 -
[146]
Was this really that hard to support, that's what I don't get. What has changed in this expansion that suddenly made this feature unworkable or too difficult to maintain? That's what I don't understand.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.04 09:23:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie Was this really that hard to support, that's what I don't get. What has changed in this expansion that suddenly made this feature unworkable or too difficult to maintain? That's what I don't understand.
I suspect it had to do with PI's planet view. The two features apparently did not get along.
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.04 09:29:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr I suspect it had to do with PI's planet view. The two features apparently did not get along.
if (planetview == 1) { screen.mode = normal; } else { screen.mode = widescreen; }
CCP should so hire me.
My Facebook! |
Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.04 09:49:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr I suspect it had to do with PI's planet view. The two features apparently did not get along.
if (planetview == 1) { screen.mode = normal; } else { screen.mode = widescreen; }
CCP should so hire me.
Another option would have been to have planet view come up in a different container like the ship fittings do.
Dont forget to mention me when they hire you Cat.
------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.04 11:19:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr I suspect it had to do with PI's planet view. The two features apparently did not get along.
if (planetview == 1) { screen.mode = normal; } else { screen.mode = widescreen; }
CCP should so hire me.
Another option would have been to have planet view come up in a different container like the ship fittings do.
Dont forget to mention me when they hire you Cat.
That could work. And I'll try and work the other thing into conversation... Somehow.
My Facebook! |
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Darwpromtheus
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Posted - 2010.06.07 14:19:00 -
[151]
IMHO CCP needs to overhaul the entire UI to something that is readable [main thing in combat] and ¦looks good, maybe even customizable. One of my main gripes with eve is that it¦s that the UI already felt dated in the beginning, even to the point of feeling cartony compared to the massive space theatres and general spreadsheetness of the rest of the game.
A game that is built around a lot of information dripping by should take this into account, oh and maybe get with the times to compete with next gen mmorpgs. (lol)
While you¦re at it reahaul the module activating sound as well. Custom sound for each race/ships/modules etc. Hell why not make the UI variable with the ship?
Make a real UI ship computer, **** away local chatbox update the shipscanner/directional to a real hud.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2010.06.07 14:36:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Ekrid on 07/06/2010 14:38:36
Originally by: Darwpromtheus IMHO CCP needs to overhaul the entire UI to something that is readable [main thing in combat] and ¦looks good, maybe even customizable. One of my main gripes with eve is that it¦s that the UI already felt dated in the beginning, even to the point of feeling cartony compared to the massive space theatres and general spreadsheetness of the rest of the game.
A game that is built around a lot of information dripping by should take this into account, oh and maybe get with the times to compete with next gen mmorpgs. (lol)
While you¦re at it reahaul the module activating sound as well. Custom sound for each race/ships/modules etc. Hell why not make the UI variable with the ship?
Make a real UI ship computer, **** away local chatbox update the shipscanner/directional to a real hud.
they "got with the times" by dropping classic client. how well that worked for them costing them 2 years of subscriptions from me, as I don't pay for what I cant play. Every time they make a business decision, its about "not cost effective" when in reality its about "put in more pretty lights that bring in WoW kiddies because its so stimulating to immaure minds and we need to farm that user base and sod good gameplay and fixing anything thats broken, you know, actually caring for customers and stuff". the latter is their motto.
gameplay > graphics any day. any one who says " I play this game for the pretty!!" is a 12 year old. and I have seen people comment like that. so guess why CCP when that direction instead of fleshing out the game. guess why they say "free expansions!" to draw the underage crowd with little money. Guess why they keep putting in different crap such as PI to distract us all from the CORE GAME MECHANICS THAT ARE STILL BROKEN.
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Darwpromtheus
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Posted - 2010.06.08 08:23:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 07/06/2010 14:38:36
Originally by: Darwpromtheus IMHO CCP needs to overhaul the entire UI to something that is readable [main thing in combat] and ¦looks good, maybe even customizable. One of my main gripes with eve is that it¦s that the UI already felt dated in the beginning, even to the point of feeling cartony compared to the massive space theatres and general spreadsheetness of the rest of the game.
A game that is built around a lot of information dripping by should take this into account, oh and maybe get with the times to compete with next gen mmorpgs. (lol)
While you¦re at it reahaul the module activating sound as well. Custom sound for each race/ships/modules etc. Hell why not make the UI variable with the ship?
Make a real UI ship computer, **** away local chatbox update the shipscanner/directional to a real hud.
they "got with the times" by dropping classic client. how well that worked for them costing them 2 years of subscriptions from me, as I don't pay for what I cant play. Every time they make a business decision, its about "not cost effective" when in reality its about "put in more pretty lights that bring in WoW kiddies because its so stimulating to immaure minds and we need to farm that user base and sod good gameplay and fixing anything thats broken, you know, actually caring for customers and stuff". the latter is their motto.
gameplay > graphics any day. any one who says " I play this game for the pretty!!" is a 12 year old. and I have seen people comment like that. so guess why CCP when that direction instead of fleshing out the game. guess why they say "free expansions!" to draw the underage crowd with little money. Guess why they keep putting in different crap such as PI to distract us all from the CORE GAME MECHANICS THAT ARE STILL BROKEN.
Nah believe me gameplay is enhanced by a good UI and it doesnt have to = pretty graphics f0r the w0w kids. I was thinking along the lines of something like those planetary readouts in the new flash blurb for Taranis. Slick and fast and USEful to get away from the Spreadsheetness. Never wonder why eve feels like work? The boxes that fills the screen, it' s getting old fast. Get away from that. Bring back Widescreen and make EvE more friendly for colourblind people.
It's deffo time for an overhaul. You can always argue about resource allocation and business decisions as well as making 0.2 isk analyses about their game, but this is a valid point that goes beyound aesthetics. K
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