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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:46:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk No. I didn't. Get over it. I say repeatedly. The millionaires aren't out there waiting to pounce. Get over it. Get over it. Get over it. I answered that silly point once. And once only. Becuase you were dumb enough to accuse me of answering it. Get over it. Get over it. Get over it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Because the millionaires aren't out there, like I keep saying.
As I pointed out (and you seem to have completely ignored) most people who buy characters off the bazaar currently, are existing Eve players who buy characters with ISK they've earned in game, not by selling mass PLEX for ISK.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk So you gone from accussing me of agreeing with the infinity dollars / infinity sp argeument to agreeing with me that there is no well of cash just ready to **** up eve the moment CCP let them. You are bizare.
No you're again mixing up ISK with RL money. Dollars are not the only way to get ISK. Older players especially already have quite a lot of these.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Stop. Hammertime. Suddenly 50% of Eve is boosting their training and the number of pilots who can fly the top level ships increases a hundred fold Now you're back to weird bonkers randomly pulling numbers out of thin air.
Because of the time it takes to earn SP (and the lack of cheap shortcuts) the number of players with huge SP totals is very small compared to the number with less, like a pyramid shape if you will. If you boost SP training, you basically flatten out the top of that pyramid shape.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Anyhow, if there, and let me just lol again while I say ONE HUNDRED TIMES THE NUMBER OF TOP LEVEL SHIP PILOTS LAWL, yes of course, lol, anyway, 100x times = 100x the number of titans that need building. Therefore, NOT 100x the number of titans in space. The emphasis shifts to minerals. What?! It's a closed system!? DAMMIT!
So in fact you want a vast number of titan/mom pilots who don't have the ISK or the contacts to actually get the ship they've just quick trained to fly. Awesome, I'm sure that'll make them much more satisfied and happy.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk According to you. Fetch me the number on the number of people who quitted at Titan level, and the numbers who quitted before Titan level. Poll them, ask them why they quit, then if it comes up in your favour, I will accept your list.
I didn't say training to titan made you want to quit, I said running out of skills completely probably would. Currently the time it takes to get every skill in the game is so long (over 4 years iirc) that it generally just isn't going to happen, as new skills are added fairly often.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Lol. So, nobody ever blew anybody up in a fancy ship they didn't know how to fly huh? This line is pure crap. Why did you type it? Why should everybody gain sp at the same rate because of this line? Because we all learn equally quickly? Weak.
I love the way you try and reverse an argument and then attack that instead of the original, it's funny to watch. Inexperienced pilots in expensive ships = lots of death and gnashing of teeth. It's not a complex thing to understand.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk So why do people in C&P keep saying it's not SP that matters, if it's SP that matters?
SP isn't what makes a good combat pilot, which is why this idea fails. Experience is generally what makes a good combat pilot. That doesn't mean however that SP doesn't have a purpose, it does. It provides a gradual opening up of game content and provides timing for the players progression into increasingly powerful and difficult to use ships.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Seriously, the hypocrisy is amazing. Nothing fundamental changes. If people want SP they can BUY THEM TODAY, just not from CCP. Nothing Changes. But something apparently does change, just nobody seems to know what it is.
You do ramble a lot of nonsense.
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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:51:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cyrus Doul pro 1. ) char bazaar does this without having them still have to play and learn how to survive even when that time to learn is half. half > 0 pro 2. ) Char bazaar would cause this more, proof of concept is point 1 a line above.
Except the high price of characters means this is used by only a minute number of people compared to the overall userbase. If an occasional rich idiot wants to spend thousands on a titan char and then gets popped the next week, who cares?
Originally by: Cyrus Doul Also your bit about everyone being able to fly the top level ships is BS, I can currently fly every caldari ship other then freighters and transports effectively. yet you don't see me trolling around in a Levi, or phoenix, or widow or anything. Just because I can fly it doesn't mean I will
So why on earth make it so everyone can fly them all really quickly if they're not even going to fly them anyway?! Not that they could afford the ships in the first place.
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Donatella D'Tren
Harbingers of Chaos Inc. Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:02:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren This is idiotic. Even if everything the whiners above said was true, the only effect this would have is to act as an ISK drain for every player in EVE. There wouldn't be a single player who didn't use this, except for noobs who couldn't afford it. Which would, of course, lead to more whining like OMGNERFBUYINGSP!!!!
It would be learning skills on crack, and CCP has made it quite clear that they think introducing learning skills was a horrible idea.
Not supported. Barbie says "Math is HARD!"
Learning skills on crack? What? Just because some people would be doubling their sp gain rate? on crack? What did you misread? Or is this one of those typical reactionary states where you pretend that something was proposed that wasn't proposed? You know what I mean, where somebody said "Use Two Plex's for Double Gain Rate" and you decided to read "Use Two THOUSAND Plexs for Two Thousand Times The Gain Rate"?
Because if that's the case, you should speak out against that character bazaar thing. Their are literally tens of thousands of millionaire bastards just starting Eve, and buying literally tens of thousands of pre-owned sp for real money wouldn't you believe!? How very dare they?
What has CCP saying they don't like learning skills got to do with sp gain rate? Also, the presence of Learning Skills or whether CCP admit they goofed has actually nothing to do with SP gain rates, bringing that up as some sort of justification is pretty funny.
Nope read the whole thing. Apparently you are unable to grasp the simple concept that it wouldn't be "some people" doubling their SP gain, it would be "all people" doing it EXCEPT noobs who couldn't afford it. To say otherwise is as stupid as saying only "some people" train learning skills.
And for the record, I AM also against the character bazaar as anyone who knows me in-game would tell you, therefore congratulations on *again* inserting foot into mouth because of your puerile assumptions. As one of the "literally tens of thousands of millionaire bastards" starting EVE a while back, I never felt any desire to buy a character.
Quote: What has CCP saying they don't like learning skills got to do with sp gain rate?
This stupidity perfectly summarizes why you don't get it. Why don't you propose something for the market next? I'm sure it will be enlightening, helpful and totally an original idea.
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Cyrus Doul
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:24:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 04/06/2010 15:26:17
Originally by: Kal Murmur
Originally by: Cyrus Doul pro 1. ) char bazaar does this without having them still have to play and learn how to survive even when that time to learn is half. half > 0 pro 2. ) Char bazaar would cause this more, proof of concept is point 1 a line above.
Except the high price of characters means this is used by only a minute number of people compared to the overall userbase. If an occasional rich idiot wants to spend thousands on a titan char and then gets popped the next week, who cares?
Originally by: Cyrus Doul Also your bit about everyone being able to fly the top level ships is BS, I can currently fly every caldari ship other then freighters and transports effectively. yet you don't see me trolling around in a Levi, or phoenix, or widow or anything. Just because I can fly it doesn't mean I will
So why on earth make it so everyone can fly them all really quickly if they're not even going to fly them anyway?! Not that they could afford the ships in the first place.
as to the first bit the prices are not really that high. This head for example would start at somewhere over 10 billion isk as it has caldari titan at five so its special, Most usual char bazaar characters are not that special though. you pretty much pay Cost of skillbooks + amount of plex it ate + some extra or it wouldnt be worth it. If your looking off a pure isk sink this plex thing would be pretty close for pilots that are not looking to make a killing. Take this one for example Linkage
With that current layout it took him 9.22 months to train sixteen million sp, and that is if he was able to remap and move his stats around enough to make his spaceship, and learning train at the same rate of 2409 sp per hour. He would need a tenth plex to give him a rounded month as the .22 doesn't come free most likely as he has 300k sp of uneeded trading skills for a pure miner which would have canceled out the 14 day free trial, account came before double training as the head was made in 07.
so out of the 3.5 billion your paying 3 billion in plex. and another 50 or so million just in skillbooks (learning skills and exhumers is 45 million all alone.) so this guy is making a whole 450 million extra isk off of 10 months of doing crap. If thats your overhead a pilot training double speed will get this one in 5 months and cost 10 plex, will have the same skillbook price so the difference in price breaks down to 90 million a billing period, or 3 million a day that he could have saved, wow. that's a lot.
As to the second half I used ships because you used ships. No one in their right mind is going to train for them like that since they know they wont be able to afford the titan prolly with normal training much less double. but say you really want to take your laser boat and put t2 lasers on it. for me to be able to fire that t2 laser it will take me 82 days, I might see that as a reason to spend 300 million and cut that down to 52 days. Notice id did not say 41 days as I will most likely not spend the money on another plex to do half of a half month for the one skill i need faster. You and everyone else here on the no side of the fence seems to think that everyone will be doing this every month of all time they play. where I think the yes people realize its more of an as needed thing instead of a because I can thing.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:28:00 -
[95]
This conversation gets funnier the longer it goes on. --Vel
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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Cyrus Doul so out of the 3.5 billion your paying 3 billion in plex. and another 50 or so million just in skillbooks (learning skills and exhumers is 45 million all alone.) so this guy is making a whole 450 million extra isk off of 10 months of doing crap. If thats your overhead a pilot training double speed will get this one in 5 months and cost 10 plex, will have the same skillbook price so the difference in price breaks down to 90 million a billing period, or 3 million a day that he could have saved, wow. that's a lot.
Except not that many people (in the overall scheme of things) can find 3.5b to spend on a purchase. An awful lot more people can find 300m a month.
Originally by: Cyrus Doul As to the second half I used ships because you used ships. No one in their right mind is going to train for them like that since they know they wont be able to afford the titan prolly with normal training much less double. but say you really want to take your laser boat and put t2 lasers on it. for me to be able to fire that t2 laser it will take me 82 days, I might see that as a reason to spend 300 million and cut that down to 52 days. Notice id did not say 41 days as I will most likely not spend the money on another plex to do half of a half month for the one skill i need faster. You and everyone else here on the no side of the fence seems to think that everyone will be doing this every month of all time they play. where I think the yes people realize its more of an as needed thing instead of a because I can thing.
So you'd train slower than necessary because you probably wont want to use the skills for a while? Isn't it a lot more likely that most peoples train of thought is going to be something like 'I'll be able to fly a titan, and who knows maybe something will happen so I can'. Sure its not likely, but millions of people play the lottery each week on much worse odds.
Anyway titans aside, people are definately going to be training to caps extra fast and getting the whole range of support and weapon skills much faster. Then they're going to reach a point where its all trained and theres no more skills to aim for other than maybe each races titan. I just dont see any reason why its a good idea to make character development run its course in half the time. One of the big joys of Eve is that it has such a long running end game. Why spoil that?
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Cyrus Doul
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2010.06.04 16:01:00 -
[97]
yeah because no one is noticing that the real answer would be to remove plex from the game. plex is:
1. Micro transaction 2. not an isk sink. If you were to make char bazaar and this idea run off of straight isk it would give the game a huge isk sink to play with. making this stuff work off of plex in both situations does not cause any isk to leave the system as all you all you are doing is paying money to get the plex. if you paid it off of in game generated isk that is huge hole.
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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.04 16:24:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Cyrus Doul yeah because no one is noticing that the real answer would be to remove plex from the game. plex is:
1. Micro transaction 2. not an isk sink. If you were to make char bazaar and this idea run off of straight isk it would give the game a huge isk sink to play with. making this stuff work off of plex in both situations does not cause any isk to leave the system as all you all you are doing is paying money to get the plex. if you paid it off of in game generated isk that is huge hole.
Without PLEX it still wouldn't be an ISK sink though, as it's just moving ISK from one player to another.
Like the bazaar itself though, PLEX have a secondary real world purpose, in taking a normally black market industry (game currency purchasing) and giving players a way to do it that gives money to CCP rather than to some gold farmers.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:05:00 -
[99]
as a bitter old vet with loads of SP I dont support this proposal because I'm bitter and hate everything and want to keep my SP lead on other players so I may call them noobs in game and laugh at their noobish ways while myself being all smug and bitter
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Cyrus Doul
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:18:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kal Murmur
Originally by: Cyrus Doul yeah because no one is noticing that the real answer would be to remove plex from the game. plex is:
1. Micro transaction 2. not an isk sink. If you were to make char bazaar and this idea run off of straight isk it would give the game a huge isk sink to play with. making this stuff work off of plex in both situations does not cause any isk to leave the system as all you all you are doing is paying money to get the plex. if you paid it off of in game generated isk that is huge hole.
Without PLEX it still wouldn't be an ISK sink though, as it's just moving ISK from one player to another.
Like the bazaar itself though, PLEX have a secondary real world purpose, in taking a normally black market industry (game currency purchasing) and giving players a way to do it that gives money to CCP rather than to some gold farmers.
well for the plex for double training time it would be a sink as the money would go to the sink as it would get removed 300 mil at a time. and for char bazaar it prolly would <50% the time the same way as someone could then make his trasaction like that one in half the time if he were to give the account the 300 million times x months to train another copy faster.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:41:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Kal Murmur
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk No. I didn't. Get over it. I say repeatedly. The millionaires aren't out there waiting to pounce. Get over it. Get over it. Get over it. I answered that silly point once. And once only. Becuase you were dumb enough to accuse me of answering it. Get over it. Get over it. Get over it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
You're that told me I was the one who explained how the millionaires with infinite dollars will destroy Eve with infinite SP. And in your previous post you tried to explain to me that I had said that by explaining to me that there are people out there who will destroy eve the moment CCP sell SP
And now you say I'm the one being obtuse. Well, I'll skip read the rest of your post to see if you have explained yourself. If you haven't, consider it ignored. You start making sense, with real sentences that don't contradict yourself, and we can talk, but I suspect the rest of what you typed is as equally mental as what you have managed to type previously.
*skip read complete. What a face palm. Learn English, come back.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:48:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren Nope read the whole thing. Apparently you are unable to grasp the simple concept that it wouldn't be "some people" doubling their SP gain, it would be "all people" doing it EXCEPT noobs who couldn't afford it. To say otherwise is as stupid as saying only "some people" train learning skills.
And to say that is to say that I've never had to tell anybody to train the learning skills. Which I have. So there. Anything else you'd like to invent in your own head and set forth to the earth in the hope it might make sense outside your head? To say that is also to say that just because everybody can buy PLEX with dollar and sell them for ISK everybody will, which they don't. I know this, because again, I don't.
So your assertion is based on the hope that you are correct while all similar circumstances point to the opposite. Congratulations. You failed to think your point through before making it.
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren And for the record, I AM also against the character bazaar as anyone who knows me in-game would tell you, therefore congratulations on *again* inserting foot into mouth because of your puerile assumptions. As one of the "literally tens of thousands of millionaire bastards" starting EVE a while back, I never felt any desire to buy a character.
I seriously doubt you are a millionaire. Oh, you cannot understand and you thought I was on about isk in that sentence, oh dear. This could run long.
Quote: What has CCP saying they don't like learning skills got to do with sp gain rate?
This stupidity perfectly summarizes why you don't get it. Why don't you propose something for the market next? I'm sure it will be enlightening, helpful and totally an original idea.
Before embarassing you publicly on that one, please make it all the sweeter for me by explaining why it is instead of just calling me stupid. Go on, I double dare you, becuase this will be sweet.
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Donatella D'Tren
Harbingers of Chaos Inc. Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.06.04 19:39:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Waaaaaah. #1
First, punctuation for the love of god. Second, if you can't see how everyone would do this if given the option you're a moron. Third, while doubtless there would be the occasional person who didn't do it for reasons of their own (or simply not being aware of the option), ignorance of game mechanics would make them (like you) a moron.
So you are in fact trying to build your case off potential statistical outliers, rather than how it would affect the average player. That's bright.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk You're poor! Waaaaaah. #2
Whatever you say.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Waaaaaah. #3
I'll do it in character seeing as I'm pretty bored and you've clearly demonstrated that logic, reading and math aren't your strong points. Not to mention you've blatantly ignored other responders' attempts to explain it. Perhaps you'll do better with Sesame Street.
CCP: "Oh boy was handing out learning skills a mistake" Curious Forum Troll: "Why is that?" CCP: "Well we created a class of skills that are virtually required and that wasn't our intent at all, not to mention it seriously accelerates SP gain to the detriment of our long-term fiscal viability." CFT: "What do you mean?" CCP: "Well we cut down the time it takes to master anything by (at minimum) 1/2 or even more for people who grind the skills to 5's and then stay in the game for an extended period of time." CFT: "Oh well since they're in now you can't take them away or I'll break out the whaaambulance in a way you've never seen before." CCP: "Yes we know, but at least we'll never make this mistake again."
But hey, whatever. The best part of this game is knowing people like you absolutely never get what they want, but seem to always get what they deserve. Rage on my friend!
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Lycosa Rabida
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Posted - 2010.06.05 18:02:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Lycosa Rabida on 05/06/2010 18:05:00
Originally by: Seriously Bored It's a shame for the OP you took up his cause. He might have been willing to refine the idea through discussion without nearly so much ego or trolling.
The idea has yet needing refinement simply because there have yet any logical arguments to be worth considering. I'm still reading this topic, but I'm busy IRL and rarely I'd answer something that's already rebutted which's done remarkably well by some other helpful people. If anything, I'd probably extend the OP post so that all the commonly listed arguments here get answered.
Originally by: Gneeznow as a bitter old vet with loads of SP I dont support this proposal because I'm bitter and hate everything and want to keep my SP lead on other players so I may call them noobs in game and laugh at their noobish ways while myself being all smug and bitter
I might disagree with his opinion but this guy is probably the most honest person on the other side.
Originally by: Kal Murmur Except not that many people (in the overall scheme of things) can find 3.5b to spend on a purchase. An awful lot more people can find 300m a month.
300m a month, afer 12 months, total 3.6b. Are you implying that an awful lot of people can find as much money as not many people can now in 12 months? That's actually quite some many, in the overall scheme of things isnt it?
Originally by: Kal Murmur Anyway titans aside, people are definately going to be training to caps extra fast and getting the whole range of support and weapon skills much faster. Then they're going to reach a point where its all trained and theres no more skills to aim for other than maybe each races titan. I just dont see any reason why its a good idea to make character development run its course in half the time. One of the big joys of Eve is that it has such a long running end game. Why spoil that?
Are you implying that "waiting for skill training to finish" is equals to "endgame" and is enjoyable? *Watch paint to dry joke goes here* Even then, mind you, current amount of skills takes 30y+ to finish, with new skills constantly being added.
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren Stuff
First, quote tag is there so that people dont need to scroll up. Second, name calling, spelling pricking and "I dont like" do not make good argument nor help evading troll detectors.
And finally, this suggestion is not made to appeal to probability. It has covered the probability of everyone obtaining plex and try to double their training speed. In the case of such occurence these things will happen:
+ PLEX price increase slightly. PLEX supply is quite finite and remains constant, proven by the amount of PLEX transactions over time and during the earlier half of this year where PLEX price suddenly shoot up to over 320. + A large portion of people who are already paying shall buy PLEX to boost themselves. This shall the extra income to CCP. + Some of these people will also join into selling plex because it's profitable. This and the above point eventually settle PLEX price somewhere. However, considering PLEX price fluctuation since its conception from Nov 2008, it wont be much higher then it is now. + Increase in PLEX price help kill chinese farmers because it both reduce their income after plex and discourage illegal ISK trading (cause PLEX is now better alternative) + Eventually people cannot train double speed training anymore because they got into the top 10% players. My personal estimation is, atm, the mark is at 50-60m sp based on how 50% of characters have less then 2m sp, and the rest averaging 20m-ish
In the end, the only thing this does is allowing new to medium aged players to lessen the gap with older players if they choose to. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.05 18:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Gneeznow as a bitter old vet with loads of SP I dont support this proposal because I'm bitter and hate everything and want to keep my SP lead on other players so I may call them noobs in game and laugh at their noobish ways while myself being all smug and bitter
You know what I would support?
Pay a PLEX to make some other player train at half speed for two months. That would be hilarious and awesome.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Gneeznow
Minmatar Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.06.05 21:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Gneeznow as a bitter old vet with loads of SP I dont support this proposal because I'm bitter and hate everything and want to keep my SP lead on other players so I may call them noobs in game and laugh at their noobish ways while myself being all smug and bitter
You know what I would support?
Pay a PLEX to make some other player train at half speed for two months. That would be hilarious and awesome.
wouldnt matter to me because I've been playing eve since 1986 and have like 200 mil sp and can fly everything anyway and have like a 15 year lead on all new players and have nothing left to train anyway so even if that were the case I could still be all smug because I've 400 mil sp
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.05 21:13:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Gneeznow as a bitter old vet with loads of SP I dont support this proposal because I'm bitter and hate everything and want to keep my SP lead on other players so I may call them noobs in game and laugh at their noobish ways while myself being all smug and bitter
You know what I would support?
Pay a PLEX to make some other player train at half speed for two months. That would be hilarious and awesome.
wouldnt matter to me because I've been playing eve since 1986 and have like 200 mil sp and can fly everything anyway and have like a 15 year lead on all new players and have nothing left to train anyway so even if that were the case I could still be all smug because I've 400 mil sp
o/\o
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.05 21:31:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lycosa Rabida My personal estimation is, atm, the mark is at 50-60m sp based on how 50% of characters have less then 2m sp, and the rest averaging 20m-ish
that number is hugely useless. because the percentage doesnt tell anything about ... alts. e.g. many cyno alts will just have the skills for well lighting a cyno. trading alts will just have the skills for hauling and selling stuff. or your pirate alt which you keep for quiet times in your 0.0 alliance. all that kind of stuff. why would you train more SP than really needed? just so you can loose more when you get podded?
so trying to use that number as an argument that we need plexes for double training speed is very very weak.
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Lycosa Rabida
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Posted - 2010.06.06 06:33:00 -
[109]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Lycosa Rabida My personal estimation is, atm, the mark is at 50-60m sp based on how 50% of characters have less then 2m sp, and the rest averaging 20m-ish
that number is hugely useless. because the percentage doesnt tell anything about ... alts. e.g. many cyno alts will just have the skills for well lighting a cyno. trading alts will just have the skills for hauling and selling stuff. or your pirate alt which you keep for quiet times in your 0.0 alliance. all that kind of stuff. why would you train more SP than really needed? just so you can loose more when you get podded?
so trying to use that number as an argument that we need plexes for double training speed is very very weak.
1) Alts/newbs are well represented in the "50% of characters have less then 2m sp" statement. What you are trying to point finger at is "the rest". From the POV of the system, alts/newbs are also characters and no distinction should be made. Weighted average, you should learn it.
2) Do not selectively quote my post and twist it to fit your needs. This number is not created to support the idea, it's a personal indicator for CCP to base upon and estimate how much they'd want to implement the idea. It could be 10%, it could as well be 5% or 20% but none of that will change the concept behind it: to even out the sp field.
EDIT: On that note, I should also mention that CCP do like to even out sp field. That's why they have been reducing skill preq every expansion. There's even a blue post somewhere about it when people went "OMG WHY DECREASE PREQ WE ARENT PRO ANYMORE WAAHH!!"
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.06 07:54:00 -
[110]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Lycosa Rabida
+ Too rigid. There are only so much you can do to min/max your training speed. None of which would make you feel involved.
3. Too Slow This is not an objective argument, no matter how much you say it is. A feeling of "too slow" or "too fast" a subjective measure and has no business being in a logical argument.
tl;dr: No. Not only are your arguments just flat wrong, none of them are even new. All of them have been brought up before and shot down just as rapidly.
I will not give a ok for this but with alittle more twiking I would go with plex from the 20mil mark to the 50mil mark.
As for why I picked out this part of your quote from De'Veldrin's post is what your saying makes you look stupied.
As we all know Time is relavent. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.06.06 09:45:00 -
[111]
Buy a rifter or bb and go find guys with equal ****.
After you hit like what 10mil sp you notice it makes little difference how much sp you have.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.06 11:46:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Buy a rifter or bb and go find guys with equal ****.
After you hit like what 10mil sp you notice it makes little difference how much sp you have.
But SP are levels and level 60 is 60 times better than level 1
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.06.06 13:16:00 -
[113]
CCP would never let their game which is unique due to its skill system change even if the whole playerbase gave this the thumbs up.
So keep arguing till you are blue in the face because it's entertaining!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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H LIN
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Posted - 2010.06.07 06:03:00 -
[114]
Will two pilots with exactly same skill points (in same areas and same skills) fight the same? Combat / PvP base on SP? If not, why not allow players to skill up faster? This game should be more than just SP, I was told that this game is meant for multiplay that is why skill training Q only allows up to 24 hours planning.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.07 12:22:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Waaaaaah. #1
First, punctuation for the love of god. Second, if you can't see how everyone would do this if given the option you're a moron. Third, while doubtless there would be the occasional person who didn't do it for reasons of their own (or simply not being aware of the option), ignorance of game mechanics would make them (like you) a moron.
So you are in fact trying to build your case off potential statistical outliers, rather than how it would affect the average player. That's bright.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk You're poor! Waaaaaah. #2
Whatever you say.
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Waaaaaah. #3
I'll do it in character seeing as I'm pretty bored and you've clearly demonstrated that logic, reading and math aren't your strong points. Not to mention you've blatantly ignored other responders' attempts to explain it. Perhaps you'll do better with Sesame Street.
CCP: "Oh boy was handing out learning skills a mistake" Curious Forum Troll: "Why is that?" CCP: "Well we created a class of skills that are virtually required and that wasn't our intent at all, not to mention it seriously accelerates SP gain to the detriment of our long-term fiscal viability." CFT: "What do you mean?" CCP: "Well we cut down the time it takes to master anything by (at minimum) 1/2 or even more for people who grind the skills to 5's and then stay in the game for an extended period of time." CFT: "Oh well since they're in now you can't take them away or I'll break out the whaaambulance in a way you've never seen before." CCP: "Yes we know, but at least we'll never make this mistake again."
But hey, whatever. The best part of this game is knowing people like you absolutely never get what they want, but seem to always get what they deserve. Rage on my friend!
Instead of replying in character, could you try replying in English?
Quoting nothing, then talking nonsense, and lots of it, does not help.
Simply Learning skills do not determine the final sp gain rate, they merely contribute to it. If CCP want to take them away, it's no problem because they have more software that will determine the final sp gain rate, and it will be exactly what it is today. There, that was easy wasn't. If only you actually knew what you were on about compared with what you typed, this would have been so much more fun.
Because if it isn't, it's veteran cry time. And we know this, because if anybody suggests changing the sp gain rate, they're crying. Like why you are here now.
To pretend that the secret cabal of millionaires is about to destroy Eve.
Do we know who they are? Do they have a guest spot on cable TV? Rampant Millionaires Club or something? Are they famous? These millionaires who are just waiting to end Eve with infinity sp? Are they movie stars? Oil barons? Drug dealers?
Who are they? Who are these multi billionaire shadow warriors just waiting to end our favourite land of make believe? Come on, out with it.
So come on sp increase haters, who are these millionaires waiting to end Eve, and why aren't they buying every character on the bazaar?
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.06.10 18:34:00 -
[116]
Not supported http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Maximus Trollus
Amarr The Village Idiots
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Posted - 2010.06.11 06:05:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Whaaaaaaaaambulance
I too suffer from verbal incontinence...
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:02:00 -
[118]
I retract my previous grade of 6/10, because you started to make more posts than you are getting replies.
A good troll knows how to make one post spawn dozens of rageposts. Gavjack Bunk, sir, you are not a good troll.
I reduce the grade to 4/10. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.11 10:38:00 -
[119]
Originally by: foksieloy I retract my previous grade of 6/10, because you started to make more posts than you are getting replies.
A good troll knows how to make one post spawn dozens of rageposts. Gavjack Bunk, sir, you are not a good troll.
I reduce the grade to 4/10.
Since when was being right anything to do with being a troll? Also, you can't count.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:27:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Malcanis If you'd included "bitter old veteran" just one more time in your post I would have relented of my error and changed to support.
But alas, you gave up just short of the mark. What a shame
PI POS fuel process flow chart v1.0 |
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