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Seraphiin
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Posted - 2010.06.03 04:39:00 -
[1]
So apparently even when rig blueprints are researched to material research lvl 100 rigs still cost just as much salvaged materal to produce as unresearched blue prints do. but at the same time it still shows that if you have "perfect" effeciency they cost less to produce. So does that mean the ONLY way to increase effeciency of producing rigs is through training production effeciency?
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Ruziel
Minmatar Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2010.06.03 04:46:00 -
[2]
The waste from not having Production Efficiency to V, and the waste on the blueprint are two separate sources of waste. One cannot overcome skill waste with excessive ME research. Once you have researched a blueprint to a "perfect" level, if you don't have PE maxed, you will still have waste.
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.03 08:33:00 -
[3]
It depends on the rig too. There are many small rigs that are at perfect me withough any research applied to them.
Best thing to do is work things out before you start... as usual. --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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Cyniac
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Posted - 2010.06.03 10:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ruziel Edited by: Ruziel on 03/06/2010 04:47:01 One cannot overcome skill waste with excessive ME research.
My experience somewhat contradicts this.
An unresearched BPO with an unskilled character has two sources of 10% waste (not sure if this is additive or multiplicative actually)
What I do know is that a combination of the two can lead to a perfect BPO without having a perfect skills, so there is some compensation possible between the two.
Example - small gravity capacitor upgrade I rig - when I had Production Efficiency only at IV by researching the BPO to ME 20 I got a "perfect" production. Once I raised my Production Efficiency skill to V I no longer needed to used a researched BPO to get a "perfect" production.
So - the two are related and one can at least in some circumstances, compensate for the other, but it really depends on your skills and the BPO.
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.03 11:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Qoi on 03/06/2010 11:32:47 Edited by: Qoi on 03/06/2010 11:32:26 Production Efficiency from 0 -> V will give you a 20% Reduction of Materials from 125% Materials consumed -> 100%. Researching a Blueprint with Base Wastage Factor 0.1 from ME 0 to ME infinity will only give you a 9.09 % Reduction in Materials, so bringing up the skill has a bigger impact.
For Stuff where ME 100 is just utter nonsense like rigs (Even ME 2 is too much for most small rigs), sometimes you will only notice a difference by skilling PE, as the ME is already optimal.
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Kharylien
Gallente Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2010.06.03 12:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cyniac
Example - small gravity capacitor upgrade I rig - when I had Production Efficiency only at IV by researching the BPO to ME 20 I got a "perfect" production. Once I raised my Production Efficiency skill to V I no longer needed to used a researched BPO to get a "perfect" production.
So - the two are related and one can at least in some circumstances, compensate for the other, but it really depends on your skills and the BPO.
That's only going to work for rig BPOs with low material requirement numbers, where the slight waste you've got from only having PE4 doesn't *quite* tick it over to a full unit.
If you have PE5, the numbers will always show as perfect - you won't get the X (perfect), Y (you) thing any more, regardless of research level, because you have perfect production efficiency and will get the best numbers that blueprint is capable of.
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Backfyre
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Posted - 2010.06.03 13:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Seraphiin So apparently even when rig blueprints are researched to material research lvl 100 rigs
Your sins will not go unpunnished...
Please read up on production and BPO research as you are missing some basic points. Small / medium / large rigs typically only need to be reasearched to approximately 1 / 5 / 20. Any more than that does nothing to the efficiency. To get the perfect ML, take the biggest number on the (0 ML BPO) bill of materials and divide by 5, then round to the nearest integer.
For resale, production efficiency 5 is a "must have".
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.03 23:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Backfyre
Originally by: Seraphiin So apparently even when rig blueprints are researched to material research lvl 100 rigs
Your sins will not go unpunnished...
Please read up on production and BPO research as you are missing some basic points. Small / medium / large rigs typically only need to be reasearched to approximately 1 / 5 / 20. Any more than that does nothing to the efficiency. To get the perfect ML, take the biggest number on the (0 ML BPO) bill of materials and divide by 5, then round to the nearest integer.
For resale, production efficiency 5 is a "must have".
^^This
Even large rigs are perfectly researched at less that 1/4 of this level.
The only exception being the Large Ancillary Current Router @47, which is still less than half.
No wonder people complain about the lack of Empire research labs, when clowns insist on researching things way past optimal and in many cases way past perfect. When are people going to realise that researching past perfect is pointless.
There are some cases, especially when small quantities of inputs are involved, where rounding causes an anomaly, meaning that you can get away with Prod. Eff. 4 by adding a couple of extra levels of ME to the BPO. These are things like small rigs that only require 5 units and the increase in ME is usually only 1 level. Do yourself a favour though and get Prd. Eff. 5 rather than trying to fiddle with stuff like this. Researching everything to 100 to try to fix something that isn't broken is just silly.
______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University |
Kharylien
Gallente Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2010.06.04 03:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka No wonder people complain about the lack of Empire research labs, when clowns insist on researching things way past optimal and in many cases way past perfect. When are people going to realise that researching past perfect is pointless.
I'm not very optimistic on that one. The number of hideously over-researched blueprints that seem to be out there is depressing. Every time I look at the public lab queues I find myself wondering how much of that research is even necessary...
I really don't get it, because research is such a massive investment - of time, if nothing else. Maybe it's my tendency to be a naturally impatient person, but I can't imaging spending *months* of research time for *no benefit at all*. I could be DOING THINGS with that blueprint/lab slot/whatever...
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Buddy Friend
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
No wonder people complain about the lack of Empire research labs, when clowns insist on researching things way past optimal and in many cases way past perfect. When are people going to realise that researching past perfect is pointless.
It's not entirely pointless when a BPC buyer will buy the higher ME over the lower ME for the same price (irrelevant of utility). Not all BPC buyers have good skills either, so an ME that is over the top for you may not be for someone else.
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:58:00 -
[11]
Just set up a high sec pos and run wtf ever you like and stop *****ing about stupidty.
There's just not anypoint in it. There are just tomany people with ideals of there own omg how did that happen.
Let them play there game you play yours. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
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