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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.03 17:25:00 -
[1]
Just trying to figure out how cheaper or expensive PoS / Sov structures will be.
Also would the price really change on general pos items?
I know this is guessing wise but typically how much would a P4 item go for? -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!! |
Ritzenhoff
Gallente Ritzenhoff Industrial Design
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Posted - 2010.06.03 17:43:00 -
[2]
Just read this: Wealth of Nations for a nice simple primer on free market economics.
Less smart-arse answer for structures:
In the short term: more expensive than they are now, supply will be low until enough people get to the point where they are producing enough structures to even come close to satisfying market demand, and therefore prices will be high. Take a look at the price history of salvage.
In the longer term: almost certainly less expensive than they are now, because many players in Eve do not ascribe a value to their time. PI also has a low barrier to entry (very few skills required, much less than invention for example) so we can anticipate lots of people doing it and for there to be oversupply and very low prices
As for individual P4 items, your guess is as good as mine. A lot will depend on the mix of planets in high sec versus low or null sec, possibly even the mix across regions. You can expect a lot of price fluctuations over the first few months. You have 5 days left on SiSi to do your research and guess what P4 items are likely to be most in demand...
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Kharylien
Gallente Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2010.06.04 04:32:00 -
[3]
I don't know that the barriers to P4 production are quite so low. Entry-level PI is trivial, yes, but after a while you start getting into significant cross-planet production chains, from what I've looked at. Which means interplanetary logistics, and higher levels of interplanetary consolidation and command centre upgrades to get it all together.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:02:00 -
[4]
Pi won't be very profitable until we get near to DUST 514. knowledge is power |
Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Grozen Pi won't be very profitable until we get near to DUST 514.
And why it will be so more profitable then ?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: Grozen Pi won't be very profitable until we get near to DUST 514.
And why it will be so more profitable then ?
Wishfull thinking that there going to put something made with PI that will have anyone bothering to defend or attack it by the time dust rolles around.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Jan VanRijkdom
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:07:00 -
[7]
That will be a key factor in Dust 514s success, whether anyone will bother or care too much that anyones attacking them, or if anyone would take the time and I'm sure isk to attack anyone else. Will it just be easier to pack up/move planets etc? What would be so valueable about any one installation anyones going to want to contract Dusters to attack/defend planetary districts, besides just for lols?
I very much want Dust to succeed, and look forward to playing it, I think it has potential to be a very interesting dynamic, if done correctly.
What in PI will be so valuable that I'll feel the need to contract the troops to take it? Will there even be a point to 'nuking it from orbit'? Besides, like I said, just for lols?
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Uppsy Daisy
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Posted - 2010.06.04 11:45:00 -
[8]
Akita has estimated here
How accurate the estimation is, however, is anyone's guess.
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Ritzenhoff
Gallente Ritzenhoff Industrial Design
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Posted - 2010.06.04 12:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Uppsy Daisy Akita has estimated here
How accurate the estimation is, however, is anyone's guess.
It's an interesting but ultimately 1-sided analysis. Akita would *like* to sell P4 for that amount based on those prices making it a worthwhile isk/hour compared to other activities in Eve, so I see the logic.
But isk/hour varies massively for different activities - as I said earlier players in Eve do not necessarily ascribe a fair value for their time. Ice mining works out a shockingly low isk/hour but people still do it - maybe mostly afk but then again does PI require 100% of my attention to get results? At the moment it's a bit of a click-fest but it may change, and it certainly doesn't require as much attention as some other activities (PvP, wormholes, even missioning).
Also, prices in a free market are defined more by the cost buyers will pay, than they are defined by what sellers would like to sell at. Just look at the market for many T1 items when we had oversupply from mission runners; it was cheaper to get minerals from buying T1 items and reprocessing than it was to buy minerals themselves (I know as I used to do a bit of this) - in other words, the T1 module market was full of items selling at less than cost price. The price there was defined by the buyers, not the sellers.
Granted that market was distorted and that's part of the reason for the changes in the last patch, but it illustrates the point - what I would like to sell things for as a producer is not the price I will get.
BTW in real life I am a market analyst and have access to a variety of complex mathematical tools for making estimations like this, however, they can't be applied to the Eve economy, in other words, it's impossible to give a good estimate. Akita T's methodology seems as good as any other approach with such an unknown market, but personally (for the reasons above) I think many P4 items will sell for less than that analysis indicates.
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:57:00 -
[10]
With the low barrier to entry, I truely believe that once the PI supply chain is filled, there will be far more players running one or two processes than there are those running full chain P4 production.
Mission runner logs on, buys P2/3 mats, refills his storage, collects his P4s from yesterday, & sells those at little or no profit over the cost of mats. Goes off to run missions.
Given the way PIs depleation/replenishment is supposed to work, and the fact that it can be done remotely, I highly doubt that any planets in populated ares will be useful for resource extraction, and will only be usefull for advanced factories.
I also believe that remote management will also mean that many players will set up on remote planets, build what ever single planet production chains they can, and sell those finished P2s & P3s as is.
0.0 and WH corps will try to reduce their dependance on Empire goods, and hardcore producers may try their hand at full chain production, but I think it's going to be too easy for the average Joe to undercut prices for PI to be profitable.
Once players can fight over PI resources, all that may change.
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.05 03:07:00 -
[11]
I think people are forgetting major things about PI tbh I keep reading and seeing comments that are encouraging PI making it sound 'easy'.
With PI the mechanics are nice, fun and EASY TO UNDERSTAND but in no way is it quick, you would need to spend quite sometime on PI in order to make it profitable, people really need to test out PI before command centres are seeded next week will be insane but I am sure PI will bring in the equivalent of mining.
Expediting, hauling, surveying and general import / export will make PI time consuming sadly most people are actually convinced it is as simple as ôclick a few buttons, go AFK come back in 4 days, sell, profitö XD -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!! |
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