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Byshop Kayl
Club Bear The Seventh Day
9
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Posted - 2011.09.22 19:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-science-light-idUSTRE78L4FH20110922
Apparently Neutrinos were recorded going faster than light?
This challenges Einstein in a big way. If this is true, this is very very big.
-á"Sanity is the playground of the unimaginitive."-á-- Anonymous "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over-áagain expecting different results."-á-- A. Einstein |
Myxx
Atropos Group
56
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Posted - 2011.09.22 23:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, faster than light travel is theoretically possible if its true? |
Vicker Lahn'se
STRAG3S THE UNTHINKABLES
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 01:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
As with any scientific discovery, I'll be more convinced when I read the actual article in an actual scientific journal, rather than the paraphrasing of some non-scientist journalist posting on a web site. |
Peri Simone
Steel Dawn Inc.
7
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Posted - 2011.09.23 01:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
A live webcast seminar discussing these results will be broadcast from CERN between 16:00 and 18:00 Zurich Time tomorrow.
http://webcast.cern.ch/ |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2011.09.23 07:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skeptical
I'm in the "may be ways around the light barrier but no way through it" camp.
Should be interesting to see what they say. Maybe some goofy quantum effect where they 'appear' to be at point B before they actually arrive at point B. Perhaps they have identified a watershed where the laws as we understand them do not apply to certain subatomic particles?
Who knows, I'm certainly not a physicist but I will stay tuned to hear from people that are! |
Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
459
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Posted - 2011.09.23 07:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah I think this needs further scrutiny. If it is true, it will be a game changer for sure. My mother was a thukker, my father was an elderberry! - @flynnfetladral on Twitter! |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
54
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
twitter hashtag #mundaneneutrinoexplanations
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
257
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Relativity doesn't say that things can't travel faster than c.
What it says is that objects can't accelerate through c.
This means that a particle can travel faster than light if it does so from the moment of its creation. This is why tachyons are theoretically able to go faster than light.
However, that's probably not what's happening here.
My guess is that the experimenters have made a schoolboy error such as not calibrating their timers properly, not measuring the density of the medium through which the neutrinos are passing, or not accurately measuring the distance travelled.
Or it could be an EPR spooky action at a distance caused by entanglement. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
11
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Posted - 2011.09.23 13:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:
My guess is that the experimenters have made a schoolboy error such as not calibrating their timers properly, not measuring the density of the medium through which the neutrinos are passing, or not accurately measuring the distance travelled.
Or it could be an EPR spooky action at a distance caused by entanglement.
I will post what I said in the other thread as I have similar feelings.
Slade Trillgon wrote:Even though I think scientists jump the gun on releasing results from research and that the results from most reseach is highly sensationalized, I will not discard the likely possibility that Einstein was 'wrong' with some or most of his theories. That being said 'we' have made it quite far with those theories, so they should be respected as such.
\m/ Einstein \m/
As fast as information travels today I believe that the ethics of research reults release needs to be modified. I will not derail any further on this topic, but it is how I feel.
Slade
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Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
460
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
If anyone is interested. You can learn more about this here, right now! http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/ My mother was a thukker, my father was an elderberry! - @flynnfetladral on Twitter! |
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Xenial Jesse Taalo
Into The Pink
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Really interesting news. Because of course the layman and other scientists are going to first consider all possibilities of a mistake in the experiment, so of course the scientists who conducted it have checked it to the ends of the earth and back. For three years in fact; they have checked it 15,000 times. Fifteen thousand.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/23/physicists-speed-light-violated
The fact alone that they know how large a call it is to make, and still went ahead and made that call and published, is really something. They're asking the scientific community to find mistakes, but then you realise they are asking this on the end of 3 years of trying to find a mistake. Kinda exciting.
Obviously, any reason I or anyone here gives for skepticism is not going to be worth its salt since if we can suggest a flaw, so can and so have the people who genuinely think and work in this field. Not to mention 3 years, 15,000 measurements. But I will offer my pitiful query anyway and wonder why it is that the speed difference is so small; something like 0.002%. They state that it is definitely within the accuracy of their equipment but still, such a small difference suggests something has been stretched rather than something has been found.
Nevertheless, I won't form an opinion or support the likelihood of it going either way, because it is just out of our league.
The Neutrinos must be pretty thrilled. It's not as if anyone else is getting a look at time travel. |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
12
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Einstein/entire underpinnings of modern science = wrong
Or.
The computer dun measured it wrong.
I want to believe. |
Mercurye
Nubian Sundance
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 18:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
While I love science (I used to be the nerdy type at youngster's astronomy camps 10 years ago ) I am much more a dreamer than a thinker, one of the reasons I decided never to pursue Astronomy or Maths; they're just not my strengths
Anyway, what we know now is what we know now: There might be alternative realities, multi-universes...there might be purple bees swarming around me as we speak. Our experience as humans is limited to what we can perceive, so who knows what "odd" and "impossible" things we have found in 500 years, they might just look back at us and think "See, those 21st century people thought it wasn't possible, just like their medieval church once said about a flat earth" |
Landrae
Hard Rock Mining Co. Territorial Claim Unit
86
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Posted - 2011.09.28 06:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Because **** you einstien and **** relativity? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We are internet space ship pilots.
We do not forgive, we do not forget. |
Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
2
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Posted - 2011.09.28 08:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm pretty sure this has been theorized before in quantum physics, either way we're talking sub atomic particles here, they just don't like the rules, relatively speaking.... ;) |
Zey Nadar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2011.09.28 12:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Einstein/entire underpinnings of modern science = wrong
Or.
The computer dun measured it wrong.
I want to believe.
There are many different possibilities of error here.
- The neutrinos arrived to observatory in Italy 60 BILLIONTHS of a second too early. Thats quite small time to be measured.
- The exact distance of the devices can be in question, the recording device in Italy is in a tunnel where GPS cannot function.
- Singular neutrinos cannot be recorded, what is recorded is one of them hitting an atom in the recording device because a huge stream of neutrinos were shot at it. Only statistical behaviour of huge quantity of neutrinos can be observed.
Its highly likely that this is merely a measuring error of some sort. Theres been too many of those in history to count.
ps. Also, please don't pretend that you understand Einsteins special theory of relativity. |
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2011.09.28 12:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
If the total distance they travel is not calculated exactly (to the .00000000000 ect) the calculation will be off. CERN Has asked there Asian friends to recreate the test and to see what they get as a result. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
63
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Posted - 2011.09.28 14:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Stonecold Steve wrote:If the total distance they travel is not calculated exactly (to the .00000000000 ect) the calculation will be off. CERN Has asked there Asian friends to recreate the test and to see what they get as a result.
Supposedly their results have a five-sigma certainty level - meaning that there is a 0.00003% chance that they are wrong (systematic/experimental errors not-with-standing), which is the unofficial requirement for stating a "discovery" in the scientific community. |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
5
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Posted - 2011.09.29 08:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
so FTL is possible. Awesome.
You're bigger problem is going to be that a spec of spacedust will kill you and you're ship before you even approach that speed. Hell even a lugie someone spits out a space station window would cause you to go pop, the space you're traveling would have to be absolutely clear, not a spec of dust or sand for it to work.
And even then, would the the Gforce from the speed not pancake you and the ship?
They need a shield, or force field of sorts to work with it methinks. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
275
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Posted - 2011.09.29 09:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:so FTL is possible. Awesome.
You're bigger problem is going to be that a spec of spacedust will kill you and you're ship before you even approach that speed. Hell even a lugie someone spits out a space station window would cause you to go pop, the space you're traveling would have to be absolutely clear, not a spec of dust or sand for it to work.
And even then, would the the Gforce from the speed not pancake you and the ship?
They need a shield, or force field of sorts to work with it methinks.
"Gforce" is caused by acceleration, not velocity.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
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