Originally by: Fikreta

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I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap.

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Originally by: Sol Mahon

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Ok so you have outlined everything wrong with alt accounts. Now, how about a suggested fix?

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Originally by: Ayaska Shran

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...

So the whole issue is mute.

...

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Originally by: Sellmewarez

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I am in firm agreement that in an ideal world alts dilute the game expierence and it would be nice to remove them completely.

But the problem is with the way eve is structured as a 'sandbox' some people NEED to have alts because they cannot do the things they need to do on their main account. So removing alts in eve would be a complete disaster.

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Originally by: James Tritanius

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lol.
CCP doesn't want to lose 80% of its income.

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Originally by: Grez

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Rofl, 80% not an over-estimation?

It was round about 18-20% last time they gave out figures. The only reason people ***** 'n' whine about it is because they don't have the úúú to do it.

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Originally by: Zen Dijun

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I very much agree with the OP on this issue. I refuse to purchase an ALT as I like to depend on others and I believe that's the best part of the game. Purchasing ALT's lends its self to soloing the game and reducing the fun of it. Secondly, those who purchase Alts need to get a life... as they probably spend way too much time in EVE.

But... that being said, it's impossible to stop multi-accounts...

-- My Two Cents

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Originally by: Zen Dijun

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Secondly, those who purchase Alts need to get a life... as they probably spend way too much time in EVE.
-- My Two Cents

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Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia

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Originally by: Zen Dijun

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I very much agree with the OP on this issue. I refuse to purchase an ALT as I like to depend on others and I believe that's the best part of the game. Purchasing ALT's lends its self to soloing the game and reducing the fun of it. Secondly, those who purchase Alts need to get a life... as they probably spend way too much time in EVE.

But... that being said, it's impossible to stop multi-accounts...

-- My Two Cents

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So I have one character in a PvP corp. I get to socialize, work with that corp, and have fun playing with those people.

I have another character that is in an industrial alliance. He works with the industrial corp to help research blueprints and can probe in that area in the hopes of finding grav sites for the alliance.

So, I still socialize with both characters. Neither toon is soloable for any lenghth of time anymore so than a lone character is. Both still need people in game making the T2 stuff, helping form fleets, etc. This setup simply lets me enjoy two seperate aspects of the game, that I could not do with one character unless I had an extra year to train up skills, and in both case, i feel helpful and contribute to our corp/alliance goals.

As for the generic no life statement... what do you define as a life? Going out to bars, getting wasted? I'll pass. Going to sporting events which I really don't care about? I'll pass. Going to concerts, socializing with my friends, keeping a good stable job? I already do all those and happen to enjoy eve as part of my gaming hobby. So really, if that's the best you can come up with, sorry but your definition of what a "life" isn't necessarily correct nor is it the same "life" we all strive for. To each their own.

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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I agree with the OP.

I refuse to buy a second account despite the self-nerfing it causes, just on principle.

To me, you should be able to be as effective as anyone else in the game with only a single personal account. My industry corp mates laugh their asses off at me for this stance as they merrily run two Hulks and a Orca per player.

45 bucks a month to play a MMO seems way over the top to me. Shrug.

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Originally by: Inoue Zael

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By your reasoning, if we took in physical features into attribute distribution, all minmatar ships would explode once the pilot started them up.

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Originally by: Arc Reven

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OP is correct on every point, and the only reason CCP won't is because of the money/multiboxer tears. Every "counterpoint" in this thread was already shot down by the OP.

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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Edited by: Hon Dao on 08/06/2010 16:21:36
Some people are needy and have to validate their existence through extensive interactions with other people. They have problems with their identity, and as a consequence have to develop a definite focus as to what their personality actually is, because that is core to the interaction with the other people that they need so much. Both what they are to themselves and others.

Meanwhile some of us are perfectly capable of standing on our own two feet, and adapting to circumstances by becoming more diverse in our abilities and outlooks, to the point we become self sufficient, even to the extent of being better able to consider all the different sides to any argument, thanks to having a kind of multiple personality that is frequently in conflict with itself.


You rely on other people, which makes you weaker as an individual, yet stronger as a group.

We rely on ourselves, which makes us stronger individuals, yet as a result we cannot so easily work as a group, and do not have the same focus as a group that you do.


And yes, "Everyone must be like me" is a typical attitude coming from those people who feel insecure about their own identity, and therefore have to associate with similar people as validation.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Can't be done.

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Originally by: Dani WH

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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I agree with the OP.

I refuse to buy a second account despite the self-nerfing it causes, just on principle.

To me, you should be able to be as effective as anyone else in the game with only a single personal account. My industry corp mates laugh their asses off at me for this stance as they merrily run two Hulks and a Orca per player.

45 bucks a month to play a MMO seems way over the top to me. Shrug.

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you can pay by PLEX

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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Just like minerals that you mine yourself are free right?

Time is far more valuable to me than money. I prefer to actually play the game instead of working a second job inside the game to be able to log in.

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1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.

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2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.

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Quote:

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3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

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4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.

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5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.

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6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldnÆt trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS youÆre unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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TL;DR Alts are evil and the worst carebearish game mechanics in EVE. They should be all lined up and shot.

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Originally by: Ovella

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But if they grow a pair one of those will obviously be an alt

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Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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theres no way for them to do this. As EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTANCE has pointed out, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent multiboxing/metagaming/etc.

Also, Who gives a ****? A player playing 4 accounts is actually at a disadvantage since he has to manage 4 different ships, compaired to you with 3 other friends all managing 1 ship each.

So, i say to you, GROW A PAIR, and stop posting this stupid with YOUR ALT of all things... lol...

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Originally by: F'nog

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Originally by: Stareatthesun

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No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.

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Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S

Originally by: Sol Lethe

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The solution isn't to stop people from having alts. The solution is to allow a person with a single account to also have (usable) alts. Your wallet in real life shouldn't translate into an in game advantage.

This means being able to train and use all 3 characters on the account at the same time. Problem solved. Probably won't happen though.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40
So I've heard countless times how EVE is cruel cold hardcore unforgiving blah blah world. But it's all just cheap propaganda. Empty words. Why? Because CCP is not only tolerating THE MOST CAREBEARISH FEATURE of all - multiaccounting, they are actually encouraging it by designing their whole game in a way that everyone not having at least one additional account is automatically less competitive and efficient no matter what he does and how much time he invests in the game.

It doesn't really matter if you were missioner, miner, lowsec ganker, trader, industrialist, 0.0 drone... you WILL enter easy game mode the very minute you start your second account and it WILL become only more and more easier further along the line with every next account you might decide to opet later.

But even that is not the main problem here. It's the very basic concept of multi-character server (MCS) CCP is using, slowly but maliciously enticing their playerbase to sink into the hell hole of multiboxing. Unfortunately, what they apparently don't realize is that alt zergs are damaging every single aspect of this game, turning it into one ridiculously shallow carebear fluffy happy land where everyone is free to do whatever he wants easily evading REAL and long term consequences for their actions.

I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap. Let me to quickly sum up why, without going into details which would take too much space.

1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.

2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.

5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.

6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldnÆt trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS youÆre unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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I don't know what's going on but I am terribly upset about it.

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Originally by: Tippia

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How does that change the fact that RL-wallets will translate into game advantages? So now everyone has 3 alts, and those with larger wallets will have 9à

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Originally by: Gladys Pank

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I will be opening a sixth account in honour of this thread.

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Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

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With regards to accounts and subbing, CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income, increasing the player population (actual humans not accounts), hurting ISK sellers, and allowing a mechanism to get around the SP barrier for newer players.

Making such things EULA violations is ineffective and bad business. This is one of the areas where CCP excels, so no, they should change nothing.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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WAAH~!

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40...complete ****..

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Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

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With regards to accounts and subbing, CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income, increasing the player population (actual humans not accounts), hurting ISK sellers, and allowing a mechanism to get around the SP barrier for newer players.

Making such things EULA violations is ineffective and bad business. This is one of the areas where CCP excels, so no, they should change nothing.

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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OK everyone, please play nicely. There is no need to start getting angry or show off your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Troll impression.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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7) Economic damage (see also my first point) - why ever bother to talk and work on contacts with dedicated manufacturers, when you can make/buy your own? Players need to depend on each other for an economy to really work. It won't if people are self-sufficient. MCS allows players to create countless industrial/mining alts which have detrimental effects on the player driven economy, ultimately increasing the number of manufacturers so those players who want to be full time crafters or even those that aren't interested in PvP but play to be a part of the economy will be severely undervalued. Industrial alts are flooding the market driving prices down, and hurting anyone.

8) Globalization: one of the most tragic things you can see in a game is when the massive huge world shaped around you is reduced to an insignificant size. The ability to log off of one character and immediately be thrown across the face of the map is doing just that.

9) Combat, either PvP or PvE: do I really need to talk how MCS is literally ruining it? Again, instead of encouraging cooperation between players, MCS is promoting one man armies roaming around whole New Eden. And yes, this includes even cap pilot and their now mandatory cyno alts. If you really want to pilot one of those you should first get to know trustworthy friends/corpies in game, not just to fire up another client and pick just another easy lame solution.

TL;DR Alts are evil and the worst carebearish game mechanics in EVE. They should be all lined up and shot.

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Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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i just utterly fail to see what you would expect ccp to do about it. you can hate metagaming/multiboxing all you like, but unless CCP wants to lose a quarter of its income and ban legitimate players who arnt multiboxing, you'll have to deal with it.

Why cant you stop multiboxing? What if my brother wants to play? Both clients appear to be coming from the same IP address, therefore same household.

Further, some ISPs tunnel their users through the SAME ip, so even if you have no relation to the guy down the street, he is still sharing the same IP address you are using, and therefore you're banned for 'multiboxing' as well.

You see now why this is something that cant ever be solved, and therefore why this thread is pointless.

Quit, or man up.

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Originally by: CCP Ginger

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Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.

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Originally by: Gladys Pank

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I will be opening a sixth account in honour of this thread.

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Originally by: Tchell Dahhn

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You win, and thank you.

Originally by: GoGo Rens

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Why would you waste so much time posting about something that will never change.
Obviously ccp are not going to suddenly wipe out 50% of their income by banning half the accounts that people pay for and therefore their income.. Not including all the others who would then quit their main character as well.

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Originally by: Kyra Felann

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I absolutely agree. The complete elimination of alts and multiple accounts would be the single best change that could be made to the game. I also realize it'll never happen.

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Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails

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Also, if alts were removed from the game, I'd not be posting here.

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Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

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CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income.

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Originally by: Lilith Order

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Originally by: Kyra Felann

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I absolutely agree. The complete elimination of alts and multiple accounts would be the single best change that could be made to the game. I also realize it'll never happen.

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Kill multi boxing and U'K goes from 1200 to 12. Ok maybe 120. I'm sure a few -A- would put token 55K chars in there.

OP: Orca envy?

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Originally by: Fikreta

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because we want our easy portion of fun and instant gratification

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Sadly, some of you guys are acting like a bunch of little whining carebears scared even to think about alternative to this fluffy mess we dare to call 'a hardcore MMO game'. It's funny because honestly, all anti-SCS (single character/server) arguments I've seen are basically coming to this one: "it's easier with alts".

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Originally by: Fikreta

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easy portion of fun and instant gratification which would be oh so much tougher to earn with single character.

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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I agree with the OP.

I refuse to buy a second account despite the self-nerfing it causes, just on principle.

To me, you should be able to be as effective as anyone else in the game with only a single personal account. My industry corp mates laugh their asses off at me for this stance as they merrily run two Hulks and a Orca per player.

45 bucks a month to play a MMO seems way over the top to me. Shrug.

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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I have sold/biomassed the alt's I had. Now I only have three mains left.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Well, thanks everyone for your comments. Some are very good and the rest are just proving what I already knew: EVE is soft. Sadly, some of you guys are acting like a bunch of little whining carebears scared even to think about alternative to this fluffy mess we dare to call 'a hardcore MMO game'. It's funny because honestly, all anti-SCS (single character/server) arguments I've seen are basically coming to this one: "it's easier with alts". What an irony.

Yes, I'm aware that CCP is not going to touch our precious easy game mode tickets called alts, ever, so don't be afraid that things might become a little bit rougher and (OMG!) complicated some day - they won't. Alt zergs are bringing them way too much money. Disabling multiaccounting -a bold move which would REALLY make this game what it falsely pretends to be- would also make their Almighty God of Holy Profit angry and that's where this story ultimately ends.

So let us all relax and carry on with our daily carebear routines. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0, it doesn't make any difference.

Just don't forget to fire up another client or two because we want our easy portion of fun and instant gratification which would be oh so much tougher to earn with single character.

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Originally by: Tippia

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àand while people are jabbering away about the pros and cons and reasons and counter-arguments for this kind of change, I'd still like to know how on earth it would be done?

How do you keep people from having alts?
How do you separate two persons with one character each from one person with two characters?

A problem isn't a problem if it cannot be solved ù otherwise, it's just a fact of life.

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Originally by: Hanneshannes

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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45 bucks a month to play a MMO seems way over the top to me. Shrug.

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There are more expensive hobbies.

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Originally by: Jennifer Fenring

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My reason for multi accounts is that the skillqueue is too long to be able to train more professions within a reasonable timeframe. I don't know what I'll be doing in 5 years but I'm not betting on it that I'll still be playing EVE. A 25 year time requirement to enjoy and experience all aspects of a game on one character is a bit over the top imo.

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Originally by: Hanneshannes

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There are more expensive hobbies.

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Originally by: Ramiera DaMorre

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Confirming this.
I'm collecting and painting Warhammer 40k and Fantasy miniatures... and plushies.
Eve is practically for free.

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Originally by: Digital Solaris

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To be honest, I am happy that I can afford multiple accounts so I won't have to rely on a bunch of madly jealous neurotic asshats for stuff to be done. It is just not worth the time or the headache I'd get from dealing with one of you. As matter of fact, the next time CCP has another Power of Two deal, I plan to get my fifth account.

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Originally by: Digital Solaris

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A harsh, cruel, cold and bitter truth for you right there. Suck on that fact along your whine and cheese whilst I will have more of your absolutely divine tears, like a fine wine, as they roll down your cheeks until they flow down into my empty glass.

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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Hehe, I gave that one up when I was about 16 (after about 5 years of it being my main hobby). I then had enough money to buy my own computer to play FPS games on. And when I stopped keeping my computer up to date to play FPS games, I found I could not only afford the subscription MMOs I'd been avoiding, but actually afford several subscriptions.

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Quote:

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EVE is different from the others, in that if you put more into it, it can actually become free. Multi-accounting is probably the best way to do that.

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Originally by: omgfreemoniez

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Originally by: Digital Solaris

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To be honest, I am happy that I can afford multiple accounts so I won't have to rely on a bunch of madly jealous neurotic asshats for stuff to be done. It is just not worth the time or the headache I'd get from dealing with one of you.

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You speak like you aren't a neurotic asshat yourself

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Well, thanks everyone for your comments. Some are very good and the rest are just proving what I already knew: EVE is soft. Sadly, some of you guys are acting like a bunch of little whining carebears scared even to think about alternative to this fluffy mess we dare to call 'a hardcore MMO game'. It's funny because honestly, all anti-SCS (single character/server) arguments I've seen are basically coming to this one: "it's easier with alts". What an irony.

Yes, I'm aware that CCP is not going to touch our precious easy game mode tickets called alts, ever, so don't be afraid that things might become a little bit rougher and (OMG!) complicated some day - they won't. Alt zergs are bringing them way too much money. Disabling multiaccounting -a bold move which would REALLY make this game what it falsely pretends to be- would also make their Almighty God of Holy Profit angry and that's where this story ultimately ends.

So let us all relax and carry on with our daily carebear routines. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0, it doesn't make any difference.

Just don't forget to fire up another client or two because we want our easy portion of fun and instant gratification which would be oh so much tougher to earn with single character.

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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So because you can't afford a second account no one should get one

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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And if you have decided that CCP won't do anything anyway what is the point of your whole moronic drivel???

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Originally by: Diosas

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i think the OP mean, correct me if im wrong to remove alts as in extra chars on one account.

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Originally by: Tippia

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How do you keep people from having alts?

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Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu

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So can you explain how having multiple accounts is carebearish?

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Originally by: from this site æAbout Eve OnlineÆ

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However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: Tippia

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How do you keep people from having alts?

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While it's not possible to completely prevent people using this or that trick/hack/proxy/whatever to still run several accounts, there are known methods to control and significantly cut that number down so in the end the vast majority of norm players would not bother/risk. Especially if they are familiar with harsh consequences, which would be in this case - perma ban for all accounts registered and verified as multiples.

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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There's no real difference between buying a premade character to get skill points quicker, or buying a second account on which to gain a second set of skillpoints. However, I don't see anyone complaining about PLEX and character trading.

And as for the cost? No, running several accounts in an MMO is not a particularly expensive hobby. I've had to give up others that I spent less time on, because they were outside the confines of my budget, and yet I can multibox 5 wow accounts, and have just started EVE with 2.

I too only added a second account when I discovered the limitation of a single skill queue per account. I don't want to be limited to training just one specialisation for the first few months, when that is the time I really wnat to be exploring my options in the game.


I don't see any reason (just a lot of ignorant prejudice), as to why dedicating more time, money and effort to an MMO video game should be considered any different from doing the same in any other hobby. It's entertainment. It doesn't provide any real benefit to society because it's a frivolous time sink. So how is it that MMOs are any different from having a greater interest in, for example, going to the cinema? Some people go occasionally, others have season tickets (add in the costs of transport, and food and drink, and even something as everyday as that is probably more costly than multiboxing an MMO).

Then we come onto those who go so far as to say any over average interest in an MMO is actually addiction. I could say there are more people 'addicted' to watching TV, supporting a sports team, cycling, or horseriding than there are to MMOs. The MMO players only spend more time doing it (than everyone except the TV watcher), because sitting down at a computer in your own home, is more convenient. Especially considering all the other things you can do on the computer, while playing an MMO.

What I choose to do with my free time is of no concern to anyone, no matter how much they may think they have a right, to dictate what others should do.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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A few comments...

Originally by: BrundleMeth

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So because you can't afford a second account no one should get one

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This thread is about multiaccounting as one of the EVE's specialities, and all negative long term effects it causes. But you, as many others, are clearly missing the point.

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

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.. the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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Originally by: Shawshanke

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Originally by: GoGo Rens

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Why would you waste so much time posting about something that will never change.
Obviously ccp are not going to suddenly wipe out 50% of their income by banning half the accounts that people pay for and therefore their income.. Not including all the others who would then quit their main character as well.

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you dont have to ban any of the accounts just do what they do with trial account no multiboxing,

Originally by: S Pada

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i do believe that alts wreck the game as well, as it dose not give you that alternate personality as that the hole reason for mmo's to live a alternate life

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Originally by: dexington

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no no no!... not everyone is into RP, besides i've never even seen the character i'm playing in eve, do you really believe someone wants to play an alternate personality that is a space ship?

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Originally by: Illwill Bill

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Dear OP,

Please HTFU.

I have just decided to create a new account. I previously trained two other characters and transferred them to the same account as my main is on.
The new account will be used not only to give me additional income to fund my pirating in low-sec, it will also give me an opportunity to infiltrate other corporations, thus increasing the griefing potential.

That is all.

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Originally by: Dez Affinity

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Alts are not a complete replacement of real players. Any multiboxer will tell you that running even 2 accounts at once makes them play much worse on both accounts than if they were playing on just one.

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Originally by: Rainb0w bright

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you dont have to ban any of the accounts just do what they do with trial account no multiboxing

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Originally by: polly pritypants

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well yer i thought the hole reason for mmo's was to interact with other people

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu

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So can you explain how having multiple accounts is carebearish?

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Please read OP again. If you're still unable to see why, then I cannot help you with this one. Sorry.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players

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Originally by: Ekrid

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Edited by: Ekrid on 08/06/2010 20:32:38
/signed in favor of OP.

just biomass all alts and give the ISK from the liquidation of skill/train time, total ISK value of character, and other stuff to their choice of main.

here's the problem: if you have alts, you have less need of other people to do things for you, so there is less REAL commerce, and more alt slaving. That makes it actually more difficult for people with only 1 account and 1 character, because they are playing as if they are a part of the eve world, and as such cant compete with randombasementdweller193812 with his 40 yr old neckbeard and 10 alt accounts. The value of this person with a single account and character is immeasurably lessened because of the alt slave.

Think about it. Look at real life world. Slaves were a way to get labor for dirt cheap. The owner of slaves wants to get as much surplus value out of the slaves as possible. But slaves in real life have constant upkeep requirements. Once you get your alt slaves to where you want them in the game, they basically work for free, or another way, the cost to have them per day becomes cheaper the longer they are around and doing work for free for randombasementdweller's main.

This makes labor value exceedingly cheap, therefor any individual with 1 account/character will have the labor value directly relative to all the alt slaves, which is a very low value indeed. That makes the 1 account/character individual less able to make money, less competitive, and less able to gain their own surplus value in terms of their labor.

Thats what makes it a GRIND (!!) for them, while for people paying for multiple accounts, they GRIND (!!) just the same to keep on top with their capitalist function of ISK making.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Would you care to elaborate, and especially point out how these methods don't yield false positives?

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: Tippia

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Would you care to elaborate, and especially point out how these methods don't yield false positives?

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The best method I can think of would be to remove the incentives for creating multiple accounts.

Ask yourself: do you limit your users in any way? Can those limits be easily overcome by creating multiple accounts? If so, then you're probably doing something wrong: maybe you should think about removing those limits.

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Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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Originally by: Selinate

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I agree with the OP also. Access to 2 or more accounts for players give an unfair advantage to those without the capacity (or want) to have more than 1 account.

I also know, however, that they must be making a decent income from letting players have more than 1 account. It's BS but it's true. I guess in the end I'd rather have multiple accounts than non-free expansions.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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one man armies roaming around whole New Eden.

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Originally by: Zek Keiria

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I'd like to see the use of IRL friends banned. How is it fair that all you glee club captains with access to drones of IRL friends piloting massive blobs, amassing endless wealth just run over poor no-life, no-friends, grandmother's basement dwellers like me?

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Originally by: Kendar

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The fact is this game is so heavily dependant on cooperation and not singleplayer that people are forced to use alts cause there are not always people around to assist you with every litle thing that need 2 people

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Very well put Ekrid, thank you.

It's good to know that there are people like you (and few others posting in this thread as well) who are capable to comprehend what is really going on here and to see sad state this game and its playerbase are turning into.

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Originally by: Rainb0w bright

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i find all the people that are posting that there should be multiboxing are the ones that need the alts ie -10, people that are war deced all the time coz they're tools.

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Originally by: Ekrid

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Edited by: Ekrid on 11/06/2010 02:26:43
I like that crack is not censored but the injecting drug is.

-using your U.S. welfare to support your game addiction, you're sucking money from two types of people. 1, the people that worked for the money and put it in as taxes and 2, the people who are disabled and can't work.

If you can't admit you have a problem, have all the fun in the world with that. just know you'll be 50 yrs old and wondering where your life went and how much you didn't do with it.

the really bad thing is CCP is encouraging that kind of behavior with their "deals" and limitations on single accounts and whatnot.

I'd say live your life how you want to, if you wan't to be an idiot. unfortunately if 1 person has a problem, its everyone's problem. Everyone's connected and we aren't in this ourselves. You problems will affect other people. your drain on society will affect other people.

In fact, I think thats what all hardcore drug users say "Its my life and noone else's business what I do with it". Kinda ironic you wrote that, considering thats the mating call of the loser drug abuser/addict.

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Originally by: Im Blue

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i use them all for different jobs. why? cos there is no way im waiting years to do it all on 1 guy, sod that.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Very well put Ekrid, thank you.

It's good to know that there are people like you (and few others posting in this thread as well) who are capable to comprehend what is really going on here and to see sad state this game and its playerbase are turning into.

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Originally by: Im Blue

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i have 6 accounts, i have not one with negative sec nor do i have any currently with war dec's, i dont use them to avoid dec's either.

i use them all for different jobs. why? cos there is no way im waiting years to do it all on 1 guy, sod that.
id guess most people with more than 1 account have simlar reasons, why wait years to have 1 person spec'd in everything when you can just train someone else to do it.

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Originally by: MaxxOmega

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Very well put Ekrid, thank you.

It's good to know that there are people like you (and few others posting in this thread as well) who are capable to comprehend what is really going on here and to see sad state this game and its playerbase are turning into.

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And the two of you are completely delusional. Ekrid has some of the stupidest post I've ever read and it's not surprising you would be in agreement...
CCP wants to make money. EVERYTHING else is just fluff. Multiple accounts make CCP more money. And there would be absolutely no way whatsoever to stop this from happening without spending far more money then the issue is worth. It's never gonna happen. So live with it or quit...

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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Yeah?

And here's a big **** you from someone who is disabled, and doesn't appreciate being compared to drug users by someone who obviously doesn't know anything about that either.

You think everyone on welfare is doing it as a scam? Maybe I'd like a job, maybe I'd like to make the kind of money where I can get the car, the house, the clothes and the girl who won't go near a guy who doesn't have all that. Maybe I'd like to have more of a life than just playing games to fill in all the useless free time I've got.

It's just too bad that for governments, throwing money away on welfare (including for people who don't need it), is a lot cheaper than spending on healthcare that would actually help people like me get into work (And I know a darn sight more about that than an ignorant **** like yourself, having spent the best part of the last 5 years trying to get some healthcare that would get me something approaching a normal life).

Sorry if it's offends your ****ed up sensibilities of what is good and right in your perfect ignorant little world, but in my world playing MMOs for most of the day is the one thing stopping me going crazy. I play them more than one account at once, because playing one just isn't as stimulating as playing several at once. Having got to know a few multiboxers I can say that most of them do it because they're obviously smarter than people like you, and need the stimulation.
While we're at it, you can go and shove your whole 'slave characters' idea right up your ass. Why would I pay RL money to steal from myself? There are other players I can do that to without it costing me anything. I'm playing 2 characters, and surprise surprise, I'm paying the same on both of them to train and equip them fully. So what if I'm not contributing anything to the game economy? I DON'T HAVE TO. I have my own economy, and both work fine without being connected in any way.

Let me tell you how the economy really works in this game.

Resources come into the game from infinite, inexhaustable sources, like mission rewards, asteroids, and loot from rat spawns.

People sell this stuff to other people who make things from it, or make stuff themselves.

They buy the things made by those people, or sell them themselves.

Those things eventually get blown up.


Everything goes from A-B. Does it really matter how it gets there? Or is what's really at stake here the size of your ego, and your need to feel important from supporting and making this whole 'economy' thing seem as big and complicated as possible, when it will never be anything more than plucking things off a tree and consuming them.


You're nothing but another dumb troll, trying to make himself look big through association with things he doesn't understand in the slightest.

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Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails

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I think that a large portion of CCPs income is derived from these "alts" of which you speak. There aren't any official figures available, but rough estimates could place the average number of accounts per unique person at least at two or more.

By disallowing second accounts, there would probably be more negative fallout than you suspect. The indy alt corp that supplies your pvp main corp with ships and modules? Kiss that goodbye, as one example.

Capital ships would suck even more than they do already, imagine trying to move your carrier without alts. Just relying on a chain of your corp or alliance mates to move you along. They'd resent you for it, or maybe not even be online at the time you need to move.

Also, if alts were removed from the game, I'd not be posting here. So, to some there may be a benefit.

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Originally by: TheBlueMonkey

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In part I agree but then I see reasons for them not as well.

My question thought, is how?

You could do it by email address but email addresses are easy to create.

You could do it by credit card but then they're also easy to get and there's also the fact that people can play with plex's.

You could do it by IP address but then what if someone plays at a gaming center or if to players share a house\internet connection?

Realistically, there's no way of limiting one account per person without gimping the game into something horrible where it gives pops and verifications every 2 min... wait... make that every 5min and that's PI :P

plus, alot of people in eve are morons

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Originally by: Ekrid

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Originally by: Selinate

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I agree with the OP also. Access to 2 or more accounts for players give an unfair advantage to those without the capacity (or want) to have more than 1 account.

I also know, however, that they must be making a decent income from letting players have more than 1 account. It's BS but it's true. I guess in the end I'd rather have multiple accounts than non-free expansions.

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really? Cause I know I'd pay 15$ a month more if the playing field was fair. But people want their carebear gaming with their alt slave armies.

I'd pay 15$ a month for expansions if they had something of substance, I'd pay 15$ if they made this game competitive for everyone and not for who has the highest USD/Life ratio.

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Originally by: omgfreemoniez

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Originally by: Digital Solaris

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To be honest, I am happy that I can afford multiple accounts so I won't have to rely on a bunch of madly jealous neurotic asshats for stuff to be done. It is just not worth the time or the headache I'd get from dealing with one of you. As matter of fact, the next time CCP has another Power of Two deal, I plan to get my fifth account.

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You speak like you aren't a neurotic asshat yourself, then...

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Originally by: omgfreemoniez

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Originally by: Digital Solaris

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A harsh, cruel, cold and bitter truth for you right there. Suck on that fact along your whine and cheese whilst I will have more of your absolutely divine tears, like a fine wine, as they roll down your cheeks until they flow down into my empty glass.

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ROFL

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Originally by: MaxxOmega

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Edited by: MaxxOmega on 11/06/2010 11:57:22

Originally by: Fikreta

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Very well put Ekrid, thank you.

It's good to know that there are people like you (and few others posting in this thread as well) who are capable to comprehend what is really going on here and to see sad state this game and its playerbase are turning into.

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And the two of you are completely delusional. Ekrid has some of the stupidest post I've ever read and it's not surprising you would be in agreement...
CCP wants to make money. EVERYTHING else is just fluff. Multiple accounts make CCP more money. And there would be absolutely no way whatsoever to stop this from happening without spending far more money then the issue is worth. It's never gonna happen. So live with it or quit...

Originally by: Im Blue

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i have 6 accounts, i have not one with negative sec nor do i have any currently with war dec's, i dont use them to avoid dec's either.

i use them all for different jobs. why? cos there is no way im waiting years to do it all on 1 guy, sod that.
id guess most people with more than 1 account have simlar reasons, why wait years to have 1 person spec'd in everything when you can just train someone else to do it.

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Well said, everyone else can **** off...

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Quote:

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I like to do everything in the game without relying on anyone, because i like playing an MMORPG solo mode despite the game being based on the idea that it works like reality, everyone contributes a part and noone can do everything alone, unlike OFFLINE RPGS. I am, in effect, completely defeating the purpose of paying extra per month to keep their servers running, when I could play an offline RPG free and just keep a chat client open and talk to my friends and use Omegle to talk to random strangers if I became so inclined. but thats cause Im an idiot who loves ****ing away money

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Originally by: Hon Dao

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Yeah?

And here's a big **** you from someone who is disabled, and doesn't appreciate being compared to drug users by someone who obviously doesn't know anything about that either.

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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I have no hate for the folks who use multiple accounts at all.

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Originally by: Im Blue

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if you want the illusion of fairness its about time you either grow up or go play hellokitty

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Originally by: TheBlueMonkey

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My question thought, is how?

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: Im Blue

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if you want the illusion of fairness its about time you either grow up or go play hellokitty

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I'm not asking for 'fairness'. What's that? I only want this game to become what it falsely pretends to be: tough hardcore MMO for smart and patient people, providing consequences for their actions. Swarm of alts and multiboxing are making it no better than hellokitty so you better put away that silly elitist attitude.

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Originally by: Fikreta

[quote=Im Blue

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if you want the illusion of fairness its about time you either grow up or go play hellokitty

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Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails

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I think that a large portion of CCPs income is derived from these "alts" of which you speak. There aren't any official figures available, but rough estimates could place the average number of accounts per unique person at least at two or more.

...

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Originally by: Bomberlocks

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Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails

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I think that a large portion of CCPs income is derived from these "alts" of which you speak. There aren't any official figures available, but rough estimates could place the average number of accounts per unique person at least at two or more.

...

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CCP as a company possibly survives by the probably intended feature of almost requiring an alt to be able to play with any modicum of efficiency. You can play with only one account, but you will almost always be behind most of the others in terms of isk and skillpoints.

There are around 320000 active accounts on Eve, but I usually assume (and IIRC one of the quarterly reports also reported that the average player in eve had 2.5 accounts, or something like that) that there are only around 60000 people who actually play the game.

If that number is correct* then I think CCP as a company would not be profitable at its current size if most players were only to have one account.

*There are a number of things that makes me think that this number is correct:
1. The almost desperate push for continual new features (PI, DUST, WHs, Sov etc) in Eve to attempt to bring in new players.
2. The incredible hubris that CCP publicly puts out in Marketing and in the forums, i.e. always attempting to brush and of the thousands of broken issues and negative complaints under the carpet.
3. The fact that almost every patch is never improved or developed upon as CCP is too busy working on the next new feature set.

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Originally by: Gladys Pank

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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I have sold/biomassed the alt's I had. Now I only have three mains left.

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That and an appreciation of Peter F Hamilton

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Originally by: polly pritypants

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we can tell who has rl mates :D

boxing

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Originally by: V'hellu

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If you notice, none of the CCP mods or devs have even bothered to reply to this topic.

Makes me wonder if they know that multiple accounts is unfair and wrong, but yet they are in fact doing it purely for the money...

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Originally by: AlleyKat

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CCP is a business.

Anything they can do to increase subscriber count and generate revenue should be explored.

Why? Because the more revenue they generate equals more development on this game and any other games they want to deploy off the same IP, like Dust 514.
[...]

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Originally by: CCP Navigator

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We love you all as well <3

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Originally by: Tarasina

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The official numbers are:

I fall asleep playing just one, literally.

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Originally by: Kewso

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noone has been able to stop them

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Originally by: Ekrid

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Edited by: Ekrid on 12/06/2010 05:08:33
Edited by: Ekrid on 12/06/2010 05:01:59

Originally by: MaxxOmega

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Edited by: MaxxOmega on 11/06/2010 11:57:22

Originally by: Fikreta

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Very well put Ekrid, thank you.

It's good to know that there are people like you (and few others posting in this thread as well) who are capable to comprehend what is really going on here and to see sad state this game and its playerbase are turning into.

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And the two of you are completely delusional. Ekrid has some of the stupidest post I've ever read and it's not surprising you would be in agreement...
CCP wants to make money. EVERYTHING else is just fluff. Multiple accounts make CCP more money. And there would be absolutely no way whatsoever to stop this from happening without spending far more money then the issue is worth. It's never gonna happen. So live with it or quit...

Originally by: Im Blue

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i have 6 accounts, i have not one with negative sec nor do i have any currently with war dec's, i dont use them to avoid dec's either.

i use them all for different jobs. why? cos there is no way im waiting years to do it all on 1 guy, sod that.
id guess most people with more than 1 account have simlar reasons, why wait years to have 1 person spec'd in everything when you can just train someone else to do it.

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Well said, everyone else can **** off...

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You can call my posts stupid all you like, just as you can call people who say the world is round is stupid because it infringes on your mentally deficient viewpoint, but that doesn't make them or me wrong .

Let me rephrase what you quoted.

Quote:

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I like to do everything in the game without relying on anyone, because i like playing an MMORPG solo mode despite the game being based on the idea that it works like reality, everyone contributes a part and noone can do everything alone, unlike OFFLINE RPGS. I am, in effect, completely defeating the purpose of paying extra per month to keep their servers running, when I could play an offline RPG free and just keep a chat client open and talk to my friends and use Omegle to talk to random strangers if I became so inclined. but thats cause Im an idiot who loves ****ing away money

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FYQP~

BUt yeah, have fun with your delusions while calling everyone else delusional


Trolling and off topic comments removed. Zymurgist

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Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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Originally by: 1Ekrid1

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Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Originally by: BrundleMeth

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it's just a game ffs

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Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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QFT FTW



Any accusations of Trolling is used with the same judiciousness around here as accusations of people being terrorists to turn public opinion against them.

its silly scare tactics from children who would rather not argue the point because they dont want to lose so call it trolling to try to invalidate it that way. funny thing is that truth is truth no matter if only one person believes it, or even if noone beliees it. it still exists.

so keep claiming people are trolls just because you disagree with them guiys/mods, Im sure that makes you very mature and useful to the development of eve into a better game than it is right now. pat yourselves on the back for a job well done in crying "troll" to try to win arguments.

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Originally by: Ramiera DaMorre

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Dear Op!
Ultimately this is a game.
Stop taking it too seriously.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40
So I've heard countless times how EVE is cruel cold hardcore unforgiving blah blah world. But it's all just cheap propaganda. Empty words. Why? Because CCP is not only tolerating THE MOST CAREBEARISH FEATURE of all - multiaccounting, they are actually encouraging it by designing their whole game in a way that everyone not having at least one additional account is automatically less competitive and efficient no matter what he does and how much time he invests in the game.

It doesn't really matter if you were missioner, miner, lowsec ganker, trader, industrialist, 0.0 drone... you WILL enter easy game mode the very minute you start your second account and it WILL become only more and more easier further along the line with every next account you might decide to opet later.

But even that is not the main problem here. It's the very basic concept of multi-character server (MCS) CCP is using, slowly but maliciously enticing their playerbase to sink into the hell hole of multiboxing. Unfortunately, what they apparently don't realize is that alt zergs are damaging every single aspect of this game, turning it into one ridiculously shallow carebear fluffy happy land where everyone is free to do whatever he wants easily evading REAL and long term consequences for their actions.

I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap. Let me to quickly sum up why, without going into details which would take too much space.

1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.

2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.

5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.

6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldnÆt trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS youÆre unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.

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Originally by: Skye Mk2

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Originally by: Fikreta

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]it's just a game ffs

Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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Originally by: Selinate

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I agree with the OP also. Access to 2 or more accounts for players give an unfair advantage to those without the capacity (or want) to have more than 1 account.

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40
Unfortunately, what they apparently don't realize is that alt zergs are damaging every single aspect of this game, turning it into one ridiculously shallow carebear fluffy happy land where everyone is free to do whatever he wants easily evading REAL and long term consequences for their actions.

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Originally by: omgfreemoniez

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Edited by: omgfreemoniez on 18/06/2010 17:51:21
1 account with +1,000,000,000 isk a month from the money you would have paid for your other 3 accounts = 100% fun
You could lose a couple T2 cruisers a week, or a t2 fit BC a day, without breaking a sweat. Just on money saved from not having alts.

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Originally by: Creepin

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Edited by: Creepin on 18/06/2010 17:19:15

Originally by: Selinate

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I agree with the OP also. Access to 2 or more accounts for players give an unfair advantage to those without the capacity (or want) to have more than 1 account.

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Are you... serious? Like, you're really telling that people who invested more of their time/effort into certain activity (playing eve in this example) shouldn't have any advantages over those who invested (noticeably) less time/effort? Sounds like an idiocy for me.

Or may be I get it wrong and you're just telling that playing eve is conceptually different than all other hobbies/activities around, which (surprise!) always gives advantages for those who invested more?

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Originally by: Fikreta

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Get rid of alts

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Originally by: 1Ekrid1

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Originally by: Skye Mk2

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Originally by: Fikreta

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]it's just a game ffs

Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

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Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.

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QFT FTW



Any accusations of Trolling is used with the same judiciousness around here as accusations of people being terrorists to turn public opinion against them.

its silly scare tactics from children who would rather not argue the point because they dont want to lose so call it trolling to try to invalidate it that way. funny thing is that truth is truth no matter if only one person believes it, or even if noone beliees it. it still exists.

so keep claiming people are trolls just because you disagree with them guiys/mods, Im sure that makes you very mature and useful to the development of eve into a better game than it is right now. pat yourselves on the back for a job well done in crying "troll" to try to win arguments.

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