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Gorongo Frostfyr
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Posted - 2010.06.08 18:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Gorongo Frostfyr on 08/06/2010 18:40:27 bug or not?
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8008/meoww.jpg
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FightoFighto
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Posted - 2010.06.08 18:58:00 -
[2]
well considering PI is now out and producing I dont think it is.
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Eve Antonovich
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:02:00 -
[3]
NPC sell order, so that's CCP deliberate
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Kaara
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kaara on 08/06/2010 19:42:45 P1 seems to be available, I havn't checked the others yet though I think enriched uranium (p3) is available too. I know P3-P4 are not on the market however.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.08 21:53:00 -
[5]
I wonder what part of "all currently NPC seeded items on the market will remain on the market until after PI is released", people don't understand.
If I felt like it, I would dig up the link.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.06.09 01:30:00 -
[6]
As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
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Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kerfira on 09/06/2010 11:24:24
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
Just one question....
Why should colonies be setup AT ALL when for example it costs 600 ISK to import a tier-3 commodity from a planet (plus the other costs and time use), but only cost 418 ISK to buy it from NPC sell orders?
I severely doubt that people will continue doing sub-tier-4 stuff for even the 1-2 weeks you talk about... I've already abandoned PI (after 1 day, not 1-2 weeks) since this is fundamentally broken. At least you should have made the NPC sell orders a magnitude higher. I looked at the market log for the goods, and saw that so much had been bought (for stockpiling), that the tier-3 PI I had looked at will not become profitable for a LONG time.
When the sell orders are finally removed, people will have stockpiled so much 'cheap' tier-2 and tier-3 stuff that PI will be crippled for months, probably years!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Soliscout
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:26:00 -
[8]
I fear the above poster is right...at the moment there are some mechanics, which basically allow you to double your momey by completly ignoring the largest part of PI (namely extracting materials from the planets) and instead buying the needed materials in large amounts and process them....please tell me that this is NOT working as intended
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Masema Al'Bashere
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:28:00 -
[9]
I sincerely doubt that this is going to gimp prices.
theres too many poses ingame so fuel demand alone is going to be huge. given the ability for fleets to take down poses as well, there will still be demand. also, alot of people will be jumping in to make isk fast, once that is done and they cant do it again they won't be back.
saying its going to have an effect for months and years is silly.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
Thanks for the response Chronitis, this should be stickied in Science and Industry. Most of the PI whine threads will clear up from stickying this comment, as there's a lot of confusion around this issue.
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Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Masema Al'Bashere I sincerely doubt that this is going to gimp prices.
theres too many poses ingame so fuel demand alone is going to be huge. given the ability for fleets to take down poses as well, there will still be demand. also, alot of people will be jumping in to make isk fast, once that is done and they cant do it again they won't be back.
saying its going to have an effect for months and years is silly.
There are enough guidance systems out there to make 100 million units (Check the market volumes in different regions) of cheap Recursive Computing Modules... That will have an effect for a _long_ time.
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Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Masema Al'Bashere I sincerely doubt that this is going to gimp prices.
theres too many poses ingame so fuel demand alone is going to be huge. given the ability for fleets to take down poses as well, there will still be demand. also, alot of people will be jumping in to make isk fast, once that is done and they cant do it again they won't be back.
saying its going to have an effect for months and years is silly.
The POS fuel parts are a very small part of PI, and not the main problem.
The majority of the PI resource extraction and component creation is designed to manufacture parts for the production of POS and POS modules. There are ALREADY enough stockpiles of the materials for that bought cheaply from the NPC sellers that THIS part of PI will not become worthwhile for a VERY long time!
In other words: The major part of PI was killed even before the first player CC became active!
If all that's left of PI is the creation of POS fuel, then that market will part will become totally swamped too....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:59:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arajus on 09/06/2010 11:59:01 @CCP Chronotis: Can you reply to the questions/issues mentioned above? You promised a viable PI system, but as it is now it is good for nothing. People will stop doing PI after the first tryout-period, because it will be not profitable for long long time. Why, because CCP failed to implement it properly!!
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
how about phasing out the non-fuel goods that have absurd, PI destroying prices earlier
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:14:00 -
[15]
I mean usually I like CCP ****ups (they're predictable and profitable) but your handling of the NPC seeds is so bad it's destroying any possibility of PI being effective, and why that is is REALLY, REALLY obvious.
You pulled the guidance systems seed when you pulled the pos mods because someone there had a brain, put that person back in charge.
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Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Weaselior how about phasing out the non-fuel goods that have absurd, PI destroying prices earlier
The horse has already left the barn, so it's too late to close the doors... Look at the market logs and see how much has been stockpiled....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Blue Binary
Polychoron
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
Would it not be prudent to remove NPC buy orders, increase the prices for NPC sell orders to allow competition and tier the prices to their respective position in the production chain to allow a smoother transition?
Originally by: Una Achura
Originally by: Masema Al'Bashere I sincerely doubt that this is going to gimp prices.
theres too many poses ingame so fuel demand alone is going to be huge. given the ability for fleets to take down poses as well, there will still be demand. also, alot of people will be jumping in to make isk fast, once that is done and they cant do it again they won't be back.
saying its going to have an effect for months and years is silly.
There are enough guidance systems out there to make 100 million units (Check the market volumes in different regions) of cheap Recursive Computing Modules... That will have an effect for a _long_ time.
Guidance Systems are also used in the production of 25 other modules, including Ogre II, Hammerhead II, etc.
In fact there a quite a few commodities that are required in the production (also a small amount used in BPO research) of other items apart from the production of POS Fuel/Structures. If you took the time to research some of the multiple uses commodities have then you too would be stocking up on some of these goods, whilst stockpiling even more from PI for when the NPC stockpile bonanza runs dry.
There may even be a small drop in some Tech 2 prices for a while before climbing up...
______________________________________ Backup & Restore settings for Eve |
Zenst
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
Why dont you just increment the prices of the NPC sell orders per day, that way they eventualy price themselfs out of the market - this affords a more fairer way to address the whole issue.
Though given the price on some NPC items and the costs/effort to produce said items with PI a fair few area's have been pre-crippeled due to people applying common sence and going ew yeah lets just bulk buy a stack. End result is the only peole who will truely gain out of this are those that dont need to gain in the first place as there already deep-pockets. But hey, you knew this already, didn't you :(
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:26:00 -
[19]
PI is effectively dead.
Player stock piles of NPC goods will last for a 'long' time for POS fuels and for an extremely long time for POS manufacture.
CCP should have removed or price incremented the NPC sell orders on launch, which would have made PI a viable industry for players. The uptake would have been huge initially in order to supply the demand and then it would have tailed off over time. Alliances would have actively got into PI to fuel their own starbases; perhaps even battled over planets - now they only need to do so just to avoid the hassle of going to Empire for fuel.
Only die hards or the bored will utilise this much vaunted feature now. It's all very disappointing.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Blue Binary
Guidance Systems are also used in the production of 25 other modules, including Ogre II, Hammerhead II, etc.
In fact there a quite a few commodities that are required in the production (also a small amount used in BPO research) of other items apart from the production of POS Fuel/Structures. If you took the time to research some of the multiple uses commodities have then you too would be stocking up on some of these goods, whilst stockpiling even more from PI for when the NPC stockpile bonanza runs dry.
There may even be a small drop in some Tech 2 prices for a while before climbing up...
Oh, I am stocking up, belive you me. That's my entire point. Nobody sane will make guidance systems on a planet untill all our stockpiles are dry and prices get somewhat reasonable. However with stockpiles huge and just increasing that'll take a long time..
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TheMinsterDeathMan
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:17:00 -
[21]
Nice to see someone in CCP is taking notice of the apparent flaws in the master plan. It would be nice to get there view on whats just happend.
I sold my CC after about 4 hours of noticing the prices of items being sold.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.09 16:06:00 -
[22]
Fact is that there are TONS of pos fuel stockpiles out there by now.
This means that the current price from npc sell orders are like a price cap: no one will buy if the stuff is more expensive than the stockpiled stuff.
But at the npc sell price (or less) PI is very unprofitable and I doubt that many people will do it if there are no profits.
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.09 16:09:00 -
[23]
Hey CCP Chronosphere, I think its time to break all the NPC commoditites that can be made on planets but were bought instead from NPCs ;)
-- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!! |
Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.09 17:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gnulpie But at the npc sell price (or less) PI is very unprofitable and I doubt that many people will do it if there are no profits.
Oh, it gets even better!
For some stuff the import tax (what is paid to take it off the planet) is HIGHER than the price you pay for the NPC sold version
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Covert Kitty
Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.11 03:00:00 -
[25]
Take out all these npc orders... the more you delay the longer PI will be useless. No pos's are going to starve, there's months of everything stockpiled. It should have been done immediately on PI launch, because even at that point there was plenty.
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Roxy McFubar
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Posted - 2010.06.11 13:22:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Roxy McFubar on 11/06/2010 13:22:56
&threadID Originally by: CCP Chronotis As we replied here. The NPC orders will be phased out subject to PI stability reviews and giving a little leeway for the colonies to be setup and take over.
It was important that we dont just turn off the supply of starbase fuels for example without ensuring PI is ready to take over. Currently, it is looking pretty good from our standpoint with no major issues with colony management or production, so phasing the NPC orders out should happen over the next week or two.
Sounds damn "carebear" to me.
Turning it all off would have provided the greatest incentive to jump into the "deep end" of PI... as it is, I see lots of planets where folks have just dropped PCC's and nothing else...waiting... waiting... waiting...because as long as NPC orders are feeding economy...nobody NEEDS to do PI.
And as long as nobody needs to do PI, you won't have the PI economy that CCP wants to transition to. Flip the bloody switch already and force people to do what they need to do to survive -- this is SPARTA, dammit... uh, EVE.. ! ! !
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Scrapyard Bob
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.06.11 16:23:00 -
[27]
The smart move would be a phased approach:
- Immediately turn off all NPC sell orders of any materials that can be harvested or produced by planets. Things like Consumer Electronics, Mechanical Parts, Oxygen, Water, Robotics, etc.
- Turn off the NPC buy orders that are being abused like Robotics immediately.
- Turn off the NPC sell orders for the items supplied by the new BPOs in 1-2 weeks.
- Turn off the NPC buy orders for any other P1-P3 materials in 3-4 weeks. This will serve as a drain to reduce the stockpiles.
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Durin Sarga
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Posted - 2010.06.11 17:07:00 -
[28]
Agree. Drop NPC orders asap. They are creating a price floor/ceiling and clogging up PI. We need to see if this new market actually has life to it. The only way to do that is by dropping the support. Kick the bird out of the nest CCP. Trust that the players can make this happen.
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Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em Stellar Defense Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.11 17:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cailais PI is effectively dead.
Player stock piles of NPC goods will last for a 'long' time for POS fuels and for an extremely long time for POS manufacture.
I'll be honest.
I am one of those that stockpiled pos mods and fuel. And after I've seen how easy it is to make the stuff I'm thinking people are going to be flooding the market with CHEAP fuel and pos mods and I will loose my shirt.
So... really Please don't get into PI... it is a waste of time.
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Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2010.06.12 05:51:00 -
[30]
Another day and CCP still hasn't pulled the sell orders. Go over to EVE-Metrics and look at the volumes moved for Consumer Electronics and Mechanical Parts.
Jita - went from 2M/day to 12M/day
Sinq Laison - 30-50k/day to 1.2M units/day
Citadel - 2M/day to 9M/day
Domain - 50k/day to 450k/day
Kador - 100k/day to 900k/day
Right now, there are roughly 24-25M units of Consumer Electronics and Mechanical Parts being bought daily. That compares to about 4.2M/day in those regions before.
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