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Admiral Morlan
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Posted - 2010.06.09 01:50:00 -
[1]
It would be very nice if the leader of a fleet, when using the "warp fleet to" command, could have the option at least, to synchronize the warp fleet so that the fleet could arrive at the same time.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.09 01:53:00 -
[2]
if people align before the fleet commander issues a fleet warp, they all warp at the same time and same speed and then land on the grid at the same time.
It is all a matter of people listening to orders and keeping fleet discipline.
hth
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Ravenmorte
Caldari
United Federation of Lost Souls
Equillibrium.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:03:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: darius mclever
if people align before the fleet commander issues a fleet warp, they all warp at the same time and same speed and then land on the grid at the same time.
It is all a matter of people listening to orders and keeping fleet discipline.
hth
Errm, no they dont. Larger ships warp slower and speed at warps are also considerable slower. What op means, is that when you command fleet to warp in synchro, all ships initiate jump drives and heat it up untill ready to jump (and after all ships in fleet has archieved the jump treshold, they loose the warp brake). Speed is also calculated by the slowest warp speed ship, and not by the mission running frigate that is tagging along the mission.
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Kell Braugh
Minute to Midnight
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ravenmorte
Errm, no they dont. Larger ships warp slower and speed at warps are also considerable slower.
Errm, you are wrong. Try it before you soapbox it. In a fleet warp, an inty and an obelisk will warp together over 100 AU and land on grid at the same time.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ravenmorte
Errm, no they dont. Larger ships warp slower and speed at warps are also considerable slower. What op means, is that when you command fleet to warp in synchro, all ships initiate jump drives and heat it up untill ready to jump (and after all ships in fleet has archieved the jump treshold, they loose the warp brake). Speed is also calculated by the slowest warp speed ship, and not by the mission running frigate that is tagging along the mission.
As Kell said ... in a fleet warp all ships will be slowed down to the warp speed of the slowest ship.
So when you want to see your ceptor warp at 0.7AU/s try a fleet warp with a freighter.
though many people die because they are not fully aligned. so when the fleet warp out they get delayed and might get caught by tacklers. thats why people often ask for a "fleet align" option.
but tbh ... if people cant keep fleet discipline ... they deserve to die.
And I understood that Admiral Morlan wants the same ... ships will not warp before everyone is fully aligned.
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Tara Aristalia
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:53:00 -
[6]
I like the idea of warping only initiating when all ships are aligned. But what would be a significant and interesting change would be a mass jump ability. If your faction is good with the jump gate owners than your fleet could make a single mass jump and enter the next system as a coherent group. That would change the way gate camps work and make some interesting battles possible. But your idea unlike mine might actually be implemented :)
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tara Aristalia
I like the idea of warping only initiating when all ships are aligned. But what would be a significant and interesting change would be a mass jump ability. If your faction is good with the jump gate owners than your fleet could make a single mass jump and enter the next system as a coherent group. That would change the way gate camps work and make some interesting battles possible. But your idea unlike mine might actually be implemented :)
His idea might get the whole fleet killed. and not just the few people who are too stupid to align.
not sure you really want that.
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Urpie Ishasit
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Posted - 2010.06.10 13:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: darius mclever
His idea might get the whole fleet killed. and not just the few people who are too stupid to align.
not sure you really want that.
So it's stupidity that determines whether there is a point to align to?
/vote for sync warp. Seriously, it's so blatantly obvious it hurts.
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"Eventually, I will have a lot of ISK ..." - DMC |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.10 13:40:00 -
[9]
FC: "everyone align towards the sun"
Some people prefer to pick their nose.
hostile fleet shows up on scanner and a dictor decloaks on grid.
currently:
FC initiates fleet warp. all aligned people will warp out instantly.
The nose picking lemmings get bubbled and dispatched by the hostile fleet.
With this idea implemented:
FC initiates fleet warp and gets a message "waiting for whole fleet to align, will enter warp in a few moments"
Whole fleet gets bubbled and dispatched by the hostile fleet.
Your fleet won EVE.
Now think again if it is to obvious that it should be implemented. even for non celestials warp out spots you can say "align towards the sun 45degrees upwards" and most ships should be in warp quickly, even when they need a small turn.
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Urpie Ishasit
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Posted - 2010.06.10 14:02:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Urpie Ishasit on 10/06/2010 14:03:25
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I see what you mean, and I agree this could be fatal in an emergency situation. (Or could just brush it off with "Tough luck.")
However, the current "Warp fleet" functionality needn't to be replaced. It would be perfectly fine to just add the new Sync warp as another option. It's a context menu, who cares if it gets another item? The options could be named "Sync-warp fleet" and "Panic-warp fleet" or something. Or use Ctrl while selecting the option to choose between those functionalities.
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"Eventually, I will have a lot of ISK ..." - DMC |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.10 14:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Urpie Ishasit
Edited by: Urpie Ishasit on 10/06/2010 14:03:25
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I see what you mean, and I agree this could be fatal in an emergency situation. (Or could just brush it off with "Tough luck.")
However, the current "Warp fleet" functionality needn't to be replaced. It would be perfectly fine to just add the new Sync warp as another option. It's a context menu, who cares if it gets another item? The options could be named "Sync-warp fleet" and "Panic-warp fleet" or something. Or use Ctrl while selecting the option to choose between those functionalities.
So you want the game to be idiot proof? ... seriously ... hitting align before starting to pick your nose isnt that much of rocket science.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.06.10 14:31:00 -
[12]
i also want a fleet jump and a fleet activate_weapon so i can just make a fleet with all my alts and go roam
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Urpie Ishasit
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Posted - 2010.06.10 15:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Urpie Ishasit on 10/06/2010 15:50:35
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FOR FECK'S SAKE, YOU CANNOT ALIGN WHEN THERE IS NOTHING TO ALIGN TO IN THE FIRST PLACE!
And shove your wisecrackings elsewhere, thank you! I'm playing the game to play the game, not to be forced to do the most basic navigational tasks the automatic versions of which are in the game ALREADY (aligning immediately before warp, hint, hint). If I am, then this is an annoyance, not gameplay experience. -.-
darius, it's not about making the game idiot-proof, it's about making it consistent, intuitive, even logical. Why can I align to a celestial object but not to a bookmark? Or a fleet member? After all, I can warp to those types of destination, and when I warp then I automatically align to it, don't I? Or, what's the point in being in a fleet or gang, by definition a group of ships that associate with each other for a specific tactical reason, when the moment of warp is entirely determined by the alignment time of each ship instead of the pilots' consent? Why would those ships join a group when they don't wait for each other? WHAT IS THE GODDAMN POINT IN A GAME MECHANICS CALLED "FLEET" WHEN IT RESULTS IN ROLLING LIKE A BLOODY STONE AVALANCHE ANYWAYS?
That's my point. If by implementing those suggestions the game becomes more idiot-proof, fine. There will always be idiots screwing up at something else. That's not going to remedy that, don't worry. Besides, a 'sync fleet warp' or an 'align fleet to' would still require your holy fleet discipline, you'll just be using it differently. Because whether the FC says WTFO and you wtfo yourself to the specified destination (with syncwarp implemented) or whether the FC actually warps the fleet himself (with fleet warp implemented as it is now) - if you're not disciplined you're screwed.
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"Eventually, I will have a lot of ISK ..." - DMC |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.10 16:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: darius mclever on 10/06/2010 16:32:17
double click in space and your ship will start moving into the right direction. and if you FC shouts at you "align to above the gate" or "align towards the enemy fleet". then even when you cant use the "align" button, you are still aligning towards it.
because "being aligned" just means "your nose points into the rough direction and you have atleast 75% of your top speed".
nothing more.
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Quesa
D00M.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.06.10 17:51:00 -
[15]
I'm going to go with a firm NO on this idea. The actual functionality of everyone warping together is already in the game and used regularly. Taking it to a point at which someone else is piloting your ship for you, NO.
If you can't learn how to align properly in this game, then you should keep the corks on your fork.
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2010.06.10 18:11:00 -
[16]
Darius is 100% right. This would help lazy and/or stupid people, and would be of no noticeable benefit to a properly disciplined fleet. In fact, it may be a hindrance. Currently fleet members at least have to pay attention and align themselves, those that can't quite manage that will often get left behind and picked off. The usual reason someone can't keep up is that they're not paying attention (it's usually a sign that a roam has gone on long enough, when the fleet members start losing concentration). This would just be one less thing to hold fleet members' attention on a long roam, and would just lead to less discipline, or worse, poor discipline that wasn't noticed until it was too late.
There wasn't always an align to button. In fact it's quite a recent addition. However, aligning was always possible. Rough aligning is good enough, it doesn't have to be done with the precision the align to button gives you.
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Urpie Ishasit
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Posted - 2010.06.10 19:31:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Urpie Ishasit on 10/06/2010 19:36:48
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I must be speaking an ancient Egypt dialect or something.
If your FC can't give you a godforsaken clue where he is going to warp you then YOU CAN'T BLOODY ALIGN! NOT EVEN ROUGHLY! You can't see safespot bookmarks (let alone those of your FC), you can't see your FC's mission spaces, you have nothing, NOTHING to guess from. (Yes, not everyone camps gates.) And you still argument with that discipline bull? Has your discipline risen to such levels that you have become clairvoyant so that you can now guess from the FC's shoe size and the windspeed outside where his next mission is going to take place?
If you're so disciplined that you are always aligned anyways, why bother? Your always perfectly aligned fleets would warp immediately regardless of being synced or not. If you're concerned about losing another whip to keep your fleet members awake, just do what you do anyways when someone keeps screwing up. Take a break or simply don't fly with the pill. And since you're so disciplined and always aligned, shouldn't you be able to wtfo on your own?
tldr:
 When a fleetwarp is intended, a fleetwarp should be possible.
'When' means 'any case someone would want to have the whole fleet in one piece moved from A to B'. PvP, PvE, doesn't matter. 'Possible' means 'by whatever means necessary'. I don't care how it's actually done, or if it's made mandatory or optional. If there are cases where this isn't possible for whatever reason (eg. when warping to a gateless mission in the middle of nowhere) then there's no point in fleeting, it contradicts the purpose of "flying together". You might as well warp in with one ship, invite everyone, have the others warp in as they join and kick them again once they're in.
This is not about promoting laziness (Which is in fact the thinnest straw I can imagine when voting against this feature. There should be plenty of other methods to ensure an awake gang.) but about consistent, intuitive functionality that doesn't invoke a clickfest just for the sake of it. If I wanted that, I'd play some Korea grinder.
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"Eventually, I will have a lot of ISK ..." - DMC |
Jessica Verne
Minute to Midnight
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jessica Verne on 10/06/2010 23:15:41
Edited by: Jessica Verne on 10/06/2010 23:11:57
Needless to say, the OP and furthermore this thread is void since the mechanic in the OP already exists.
or and lol at the emo rage-- do you speak egyptian or are you just teasing?
And yes, my FC's shoe size is a 12 (us sizing) and the fact that our fleets are better at being aligned, et al. is an advantage which you wish to take out of the game allowing the blobfest lemmings to be at the same level becuase they were actually able to produce one slightly competent person to take FC and lead their ships around like marionettes.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:48:00 -
[19]
Quote:
currently:
FC initiates fleet warp. all aligned people will warp out instantly.
The nose picking lemmings get bubbled and dispatched by the hostile fleet.
Why is this a bad thing? Player skill should matter too, and if your fleet members are too dumb to be aligned (or the FC was too dumb to wait for people to align) then they deserved to die.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
currently:
FC initiates fleet warp. all aligned people will warp out instantly.
The nose picking lemmings get bubbled and dispatched by the hostile fleet.
Why is this a bad thing? Player skill should matter too, and if your fleet members are too dumb to be aligned (or the FC was too dumb to wait for people to align) then they deserved to die.
I never said it is bad ... it is darwin at its best. ... but the suggested idea would get the whole fleet killed *because* of the lemmings.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.06.11 01:35:00 -
[21]
How about just giving the FC the ability to designate a point in space as fleet wide beacon? That way people can actually align to things like safes and deadspaces.
Originally by: CCP Lemur
THIS IS GOD: ...
IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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z0de
The Bastards
The Tusker Bastards
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Posted - 2010.06.11 02:20:00 -
[22]
we didn't need the align to button and we don't need this. Train your pilots or kick them from corp.
á
á
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.06.11 02:56:00 -
[23]
Quote:
I never said it is bad ... it is darwin at its best. ... but the suggested idea would get the whole fleet killed *because* of the lemmings.
Great. Then train your fleetmates better or don't bring the lemmings.
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Terrax Norik
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Posted - 2010.06.11 03:29:00 -
[24]
I say no. This is dumbing down what already exists in game.
If a fleet is so undiciplined that they can't manage to do a successful fleet warp, then they deserve what they get.
How hard is it to align then warp once all are at 75%+ velocity?
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2010.06.11 03:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: darius mclever
Edited by: darius mclever on 10/06/2010 16:32:17
double click in space and your ship will start moving into the right direction. and if you FC shouts at you "align to above the gate" or "align towards the enemy fleet". then even when you cant use the "align" button, you are still aligning towards it.
because "being aligned" just means "your nose points into the rough direction and you have atleast 75% of your top speed".
nothing more.
this...
If your bm is by 7-2, align to 7-2 or close to it as best as you can guess. have a warp to pilot sliding into place for the warp ins...again if by 7-2, might want to be proactive and align to 7-2 as close as you can (me I add to watch list as well as fleet channel gets flooded with BS/Cap/Support warp ins x'ing up)
If life or death is the .567878 seconds added to adjust 10 degrees on the warp align, something has gone wrong away beyond user UI. Problems exists between keyboard and chair sounds like. If you have a bm labelled "POS Bash target" only, no planet moon...well then next you fc rememeber to put where the pos is at in the name so you know where to align lol
TBH, even if given align orders...I still deviate a few degrees. Several bs' flying samish speed bunched up, don't have to be a U-boat commnander from WWII to figure out best run for your bomb squad.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:07:00 -
[26]
I'm with Mr. mclever on this one.
Good communication, discipline and practice give the fleets that posses them a distinct advantage. This can at times be a very important advantage.
Anything that closes the gap for those who for whatever reason are not as disciplined or practised is in essence "dumbing down", something that I consider abhorrent.
If you want to be as good as the more experienced fleet then you just have to work for it, they did and the rewards of that work are well deserved.
If you are arguing for this change just to make group mission running in high sec even easier than it is then....(I am far too polite to finish this train of thought).
Peace.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva
Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:45:00 -
[27]
Communication, and a FC with his head not up ....
A single idiot or saboteur in the fleet could delay the synched warp just long enough...
Stragglers who can't figure out that the fleet is going someplace might just slow down a pursuit just long enough for the smart ones to survive.
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships.
Pop da rats, make more rigs.
Sell da gear, make more money.
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Baaldor
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.11 10:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Urpie Ishasit
Edited by: Urpie Ishasit on 10/06/2010 19:36:48
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I must be speaking an ancient Egypt dialect or something.
If your FC can't give you a godforsaken clue where he is going to warp you then YOU CAN'T BLOODY ALIGN! NOT EVEN ROUGHLY! .
Then your FC is doing it wrong. Most decent FC's has a pretty good clue where they are in relation to the next warp to point. So the do have a "clue" in which direction you need to align to before you all gang warp to the next warp point.
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Elegbara
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Posted - 2010.06.11 10:49:00 -
[29]
If you want to have synchronized warp, you probably have some extra time to wait for those with highest align time. Then you can use a totally different approach:
- Leader aligns to where he is going to warp the fleet
- Everyone in the fleet issues the "keep in range" command to align the same direction as leader is pointing
- When everyone got the direction, they start gathering speed instead
- When everyone got their speed, fleet leader issues fleet warp
I remeber doing this once when warping a gang of corpmates into a mission. Works especially well when leader got the quickest ship (turning on speed mod while everyone else turns their mods off does help)
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Open your eyes.
And Awaken. |
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