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Mister LEM0NS
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.09 19:56:00 -
[1]
I can see the only ship with 8 missile hardpoints is the rarest ship in the game, the raven state issue. Plenty of ships with 8 turret hardpoints that do more than enough DPS (excluding the rokh). Any logical reason for this? Or is it just turrets can miss so they need the extra chance for that good hit.
Finder of the Ibis navy issue. |
Securitas Protector
Yaoi Corp Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.06.09 19:59:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Mister LEM0NS I can see the only ship with 8 missile hardpoints is the rarest ship in the game, the raven state issue. Plenty of ships with 8 turret hardpoints that do more than enough DPS (excluding the rokh). Any logical reason for this? Or is it just turrets can miss so they need the extra chance for that good hit.
Simply put, the power of bonused(even unbonused) siege launchers to put out raw dps is higher than any other weapons system in the game. The Raven, with only 6 launcher hardpoints, can easily put over 1200 DPS with torpedoes, while a blaster megathron struggles to put out that much DPS with a realistic fit. And this is with blasters, supposedly the most damaging and powerful weapon type, and 7 turret hardpoints. Try EFTing a "realistic" fit for the state raven, even only T2, and see how much raw dps it puts out. Now think about if everyone had access to that. :) Not pretty for any other BS shiptype. Proud to be shaych |
Captain Merkin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.09 20:00:00 -
[3]
well I would assume that because of a number of reasons:
Missiles are much much easier to train, no secondary skills required to spec lv4 for your medium and large counterparts.
Guns miss and have variable damage, missiles do not.
Then again I wouldnt really moan if there were a boat with 8 launcher hardpoints. But I guess you can just say the golem does that with its 100% bonus to 4 launcher hardpoints and if I recall there are other ships with bonus to these guns equalling more turrets.
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 20:11:00 -
[4]
Strictly speaking, the Golem has 4 launchers and 100% bonus so it has "8 launchers" sans the ammo usage.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Helmh0ltz
The Devolved
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Strictly speaking, the Golem has 4 launchers and 100% bonus so it has "8 launchers" sans the ammo usage.
-Liang
Strictly speaking the Raven Navy Issue has has 7 launchers and a 25% bonus so it has "8.75 launchers" sans the ammo usage. ====== Your signature is freakishly huge for this forum. Please resize according to the forum rules, thanks. Shadow. |
Napro
Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Strictly speaking, the Golem has 4 launchers and 100% bonus so it has "8 launchers" sans the ammo usage.
-Liang
Strictly speaking, you completely missed the point of that bonus
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Helmh0ltz Strictly speaking the Raven Navy Issue has has 7 launchers and a 25% bonus so it has "8.75 launchers" sans the ammo usage.
Hey, did you know that 7 < 2*4? The only difference between the Golem's 4 launchers and 100% bonus and 8 launchers is the flexibility that comes from so many slots with so much fitting. Yes, the CNR has more effective launchers... but that's not the same thing as having all the effects of 8 launchers (including such things as volley damage).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Canaloney Soup
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Securitas Protector Simply put, the power of bonused(even unbonused) siege launchers to put out raw dps is higher than any other weapons system in the game. The Raven, with only 6 launcher hardpoints, can easily put over 1200 DPS with torpedoes, while a blaster megathron struggles to put out that much DPS with a realistic fit. And this is with blasters, supposedly the most damaging and powerful weapon type, and 7 turret hardpoints. Try EFTing a "realistic" fit for the state raven, even only T2, and see how much raw dps it puts out. Now think about if everyone had access to that. :) Not pretty for any other BS shiptype.
Raven 971 dps with rage torp 3 damage mods 101 ehp
Mega 909 dps with faction AM 3 damage mod 102 ehp
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:01:00 -
[9]
EVE history 101:
Back in the dark ages, the Raven sucked for anything but carebearing. Torps had huge range, but barely any more dps than cruise missiles. This was a bad thing, and CCP finally decided to change it. Torps got a huge damage increase and a range decrease to make them a proper close-range weapon. Now, CCP had two ways to do this:
1) Increase the Raven's hardpoints to a full 8.
OR
2) Increase base torp damage and/or ROF.
At first glance, both of these are the same, but there are two key differences:
1) The poor Typhoon also depends on torps, but since it already has all 8 high slots used, it can not get additional missile hardpoints.
2) The Raven would really like to keep those two spare high slots for neuts/RR/etc.
So CCP picked the obvious solution: increase base torpedo dps while keeping the hardpoints the same. The net result is that torps do 8 hardpoints worth of damage with only 6 launchers. Giving the Raven 8 launchers on top of this would be insanely overpowered. -----------
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.06.10 00:11:00 -
[10]
RSI can get ~1800 DPS with just a realistic tech 2 fit, fully pimped ( estamel's stuff), you are looking at over ~2100 DPS without overloading, to 27KM
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Morikai Acler
Caldari The Whitesands Consortium Honourable Templum of Alcedonia
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Posted - 2010.06.10 04:39:00 -
[11]
Yeah, was gonna say, I can push close to 1100dps on a regular old raven with a proper fit, with my skills and only two dmg mods, and my skills aren't all maxed at level 5. Granted I can easily do the same with a standard Megathron and 7 modal mega neutrons with 2 or 3 dmg mods.
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Bite me inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.10 11:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Helmh0ltz Strictly speaking the Raven Navy Issue has has 7 launchers and a 25% bonus so it has "8.75 launchers" sans the ammo usage.
Hey, did you know that 7 < 2*4? The only difference between the Golem's 4 launchers and 100% bonus and 8 launchers is the flexibility that comes from so many slots with so much fitting. Yes, the CNR has more effective launchers... but that's not the same thing as having all the effects of 8 launchers (including such things as volley damage).
-Liang
Not to mention the spare utility highs you get.
8 launcher bs would be OP or would lack enough grid to make a viable torp fit (for balance), and thus isn't interresting. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.10 11:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin EVE history 101:
Back in the dark ages, the Raven sucked for anything but carebearing. Torps had huge range, but barely any more dps than cruise missiles. This was a bad thing, and CCP finally decided to change it. Torps got a huge damage increase and a range decrease to make them a proper close-range weapon. Now, CCP had two ways to do this:
1) Increase the Raven's hardpoints to a full 8.
OR
2) Increase base torp damage and/or ROF.
At first glance, both of these are the same, but there are two key differences:
1) The poor Typhoon also depends on torps, but since it already has all 8 high slots used, it can not get additional missile hardpoints.
2) The Raven would really like to keep those two spare high slots for neuts/RR/etc.
So CCP picked the obvious solution: increase base torpedo dps while keeping the hardpoints the same. The net result is that torps do 8 hardpoints worth of damage with only 6 launchers. Giving the Raven 8 launchers on top of this would be insanely overpowered.
Side benefit: Stealth bombers are awesome!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar Star Bombers
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Posted - 2010.06.10 11:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malcanis
Side benefit: Stealth bombers are awesome!
I saw the killmail. Truly staggering, and even more considering who your opponents were.
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Blueberrie
Caldari United Miners and Manufacturers Co. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.06.10 12:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Morikai Acler Yeah, was gonna say, I can push close to 1100dps on a regular old raven with a proper fit, with my skills and only two dmg mods, and my skills aren't all maxed at level 5. Granted I can easily do the same with a standard Megathron and 7 modal mega neutrons with 2 or 3 dmg mods.
Dude :)
You have 72milSP and 8 mil in missiles. That's at least 'not bad' :p
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.10 12:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Malcanis
Side benefit: Stealth bombers are awesome!
I saw the killmail. Truly staggering, and even more considering who your opponents were.
That's very kind of you to say, but I belive you're referring to the incident where we used bombs, not torps.
There was a large running battle a few days later where INIT only had a small gang present, a couple of Arazus/Dramiels and a torp bomber squad chasing round after stragglers. Recons/Drams lurk at planets -> Get tackle -> 2 torp volleys -> dead -> loot wreck -> warp off -> next tackle... repeat.
Was awesome fun till we warped to a gate not knowing it was bubbled and mostly died in a fire (I did not die because I'm "OCD about using tacticals" :smug:)
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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