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Marshiro
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Posted - 2010.06.11 05:19:00 -
[1]
A specter is haunting the Eve economy - the specter of deflation. With insufficient money supply the economy of Eve is being pinched by a persistently under utilized economy. Since the evil Dominion patch changes to moongoo and mineral supply, followed by the end of insurance fraud, the money supply is completely insufficient to keep up.
Traders, we can do our part and stop paying the bloody caldari navy all your isk which makes the situation worst as hard earned currency
So, I thereby calling all traders to stop your order placing ways. IF you must exhange, please use the contract system with lower fees.
*If I don't see any changes to this impossible situation, I shall leave the game and give away all mysuff. Just send me isk and I'll double it. *
*what, monetarism doesn't work in eve? lies and damned lies*
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Zuretul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:38:00 -
[2]
LMFAO!
Do you happen to work in goverment in some EU country?
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Ruddy Rax
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:52:00 -
[3]
lol seriously your in the wrong fourm, deflation isn't a huge issue for a trader as long as they can buy goods for less then they sell them for its all good. where you want to be is in science & industry. now you go tell them to go on strike and stop out producing the losses then we'll see some inflation :D
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Faccat
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Posted - 2010.06.11 12:10:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ruddy Rax lol seriously your in the wrong fourm, deflation isn't a huge issue for a trader as long as they can buy goods for less then they sell them for its all good. where you want to be is in science & industry. now you go tell them to go on strike and stop out producing the losses then we'll see some inflation :D
Exactly. A market in turmoil is actually better than a stable market for a trader. For example, the recent decline in minerals has been an easy money maker as the exterior regions lag behind the hubs.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.06.11 12:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Faccat
Exactly. A market in turmoil is actually better than a stable market for a trader. For example, the recent decline in minerals has been an easy money maker as the exterior regions lag behind the hubs.
Isn't that a LOT of effort for some isk? Freightering minerals sounds like time consuming work.
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Feronia
Gallente Magma Holdings Group
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Posted - 2010.06.11 13:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marshiro Traders, we can do our part and stop paying the bloody caldari navy all your isk which makes the situation worst as hard earned currency
I agree. Throwing money at the Caldari Navy for cheap stuff won't help us.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.06.11 13:45:00 -
[7]
I'll stop trading (in Jita) when it stops being the most profitable option. Until then...
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.06.11 13:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marshiro So, I thereby calling all traders to stop your order placing ways.
wrong, wrong, wrong... if money is missing, people just have to trade faster
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gtiness
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Posted - 2010.06.11 13:53:00 -
[9]
I support a trader strike. gtfo my markets
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Brother Right
You have a friend in Jita
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Posted - 2010.06.12 02:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Brother Right on 12/06/2010 02:28:51
As a reforming scammer, I hold that scams and corruption are the market's worst enemy. Deflation will self correct over time. Corruption will still be with us. What will drive a vibrant economy is safety and justice for carebears in HighSec. Period.
I am convinced that jilted ragequitters are Eve's largest threat. I want to see 100k people when I log on. 100k people happily spending ISK. Buying my awesome wares.
I live in a town of @35k people and by studying and comparing the local economy to EVE I am becoming convinced low player base will always be EVE's worst market threat. The departmentalization of so many specialties and trades it takes to produce many items then bring them to market helps immensely to offset low player base but still...
Come to Jita and repent, you sinners.
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Jessica Verne
Minute to Midnight
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Posted - 2010.06.16 10:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Marshiro insufficient money supply
That's where i knew you were spewing bull**** and I should stop reading.
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Carl Icahn
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Posted - 2010.06.18 02:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ruddy Rax lol seriously your in the wrong fourm, deflation isn't a huge issue for a trader as long as they can buy goods for less then they sell them for its all good. where you want to be is in science & industry. now you go tell them to go on strike and stop out producing the losses then we'll see some inflation :D
Are you ******ed? Deflation can completely freeze an economy in its tracks as people continue to wait for prices to fall before they buy anything. For example corn prices fall 0.05% everyday for 10 years. Now as a corn trader would you buy corn today even though you would have to take a 0.05% loss on it tomorrow? I dont think you would. In eve, just like in real life, deflation is a bullet to the head of any economy.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.06.18 06:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Carl Icahn In eve, just like in real life, deflation is a bullet to the head of any economy.
(1) "CTA canceled as our alliance economist predicts HAC hulls will be much cheaper next year."
EVE is a game, I would expect the average players to have an extremely strong preference for present consumption (as opposed to deferred consumption).
(2) IRL there is an asymmetry between inflation and deflation as nominal interest rates (most importantly on cash) do not fall below 0%. In EVE CCP could just reduce all wallet balances by 0.05% every day while simultaneously boosting mission rewards and bounties to keep the money supply stable.
(3) As long as demand does not collapse hard and margins are wide enough to absorb the day-to-day changes, traders won't worry too much about trends in the price level.
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Herateis
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Posted - 2010.06.18 11:53:00 -
[14]
tell this to dual modal pulse lasers. they are highest in price theyve ever been in a year in amarr
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.18 12:04:00 -
[15]
no. knowledge is power |
Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2010.06.18 15:43:00 -
[16]
Yes, if you would all stop trading please that would be great.
Also, if you could send me the list of items that you will be ceasing trade on, so I can "track" the progress, that would be great too...
Great for my wallet.
Fail post, but did make me laugh.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.18 18:55:00 -
[17]
In the American economy light inflation is important because it allows employers to reduce affective wages without cutting pay. Outside a recession/depression, reducing wages tends to drive employees away creating high turnover in the workforce which is inefficient and creates discontent. With inflation, you can keep your wages the same in real dollars but pay less in absolute terms. As a job becomes less valued the pay simply increases at a slower rate relative to inflation. This reduces actual wages in a non-disruptive way and is why we need a little inflation.
You can argue that inflation spurs productive investment since cash becomes less valuable in time and thus inflation, by providing a disincentive to hold cash encourages investment which encourages growth.
The other argument for inflation is when one is in debt and wants to inflate away that debt. For instance, if you have a mortgage (like much of America) you want those payments to effectively decrease over time thanks to inflation.
EVE does not have to worry about employer/employee relations or debt and demand for investment already wildly surpasses supply. They're simply not relevant and thus we do not have a need for inflation. I don't think we have a need for deflation either but I don't see how you can make a jump to deflation being a problem, especially very light deflation.
Serious deflation, the sort where the average consumer actually sees the difference over the time span between regular purchases, will negatively affect consumption and destroy traditional investment since we would slam into the wall that is a 0% nominal interest rate but we're not looking at that. Interest rates are still positive (my recent bond being an amusing outlier) and normal purchases, such as replacing a lost ship or weapons, happen on the order of weeks which means consumers can only expect a fraction of a percent change over the life of their purchase. That is too small to make a significant effect on consumption. Deflation in this small a measure simply isn't a problem.
What gains do you expect to see if deflation were stopped? How much brighter of a future would we have? I see much effort proposed for very little gain. Where as, championing a cause like an expanded set of tools for the secondary market might bring a new depth of gameplay, reward a very important and very overlooked segment of the playerbase and bring a wave of new investment that would ultimately benefit all players. There seem to be tons of causes more worthy of our time than fighting deflation.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.06.18 19:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer taking this whole thread very seriously
Actually the OP is completely wrong and we should hope for a monthly rate of deflation of ~ 2-5%.
Friedman said so.
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Maiev Satellizer
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Posted - 2010.06.18 19:58:00 -
[19]
All i can see is healthy margin. Thick donchian channels. How can I protest? Its like a dream come true.
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Pirokobo
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.19 03:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 19/06/2010 03:23:00 Deflation would only be a problem if mission and npc bounties were dropping as well.
They aren't. This will put a floor on prices because as deflation occurs the purchasing power of rat bounties and mission income increases, driving more people to spend more time generating new ISK from npc sources.
That floor may seem catastrophically low... but it does exist and it will prevent prices from reaching zero.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2010.06.19 05:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jessica Verne
Originally by: Marshiro insufficient money supply
That's where i knew you were spewing bull**** and I should stop reading.
this
macro ravens, be that missions or 0.0 belts, keep overflowing the monetary market. the nerf to the insurance faucet is laughable in comparison - putting the gist back into logistics |
1Ekrid1
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Posted - 2010.06.19 08:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer In the American economy light inflation is important because it allows employers to reduce affective wages without cutting pay. Outside a recession/depression, reducing wages tends to drive employees away creating high turnover in the workforce which is inefficient and creates discontent. With inflation, you can keep your wages the same in real dollars but pay less in absolute terms. As a job becomes less valued the pay simply increases at a slower rate relative to inflation. This reduces actual wages in a non-disruptive way and is why we need a little inflation.
You can argue that inflation spurs productive investment since cash becomes less valuable in time and thus inflation, by providing a disincentive to hold cash encourages investment which encourages growth.
The other argument for inflation is when one is in debt and wants to inflate away that debt. For instance, if you have a mortgage (like much of America) you want those payments to effectively decrease over time thanks to inflation.
EVE does not have to worry about employer/employee relations or debt and demand for investment already wildly surpasses supply. They're simply not relevant and thus we do not have a need for inflation. I don't think we have a need for deflation either but I don't see how you can make a jump to deflation being a problem, especially very light deflation.
Serious deflation, the sort where the average consumer actually sees the difference over the time span between regular purchases, will negatively affect consumption and destroy traditional investment since we would slam into the wall that is a 0% nominal interest rate but we're not looking at that. Interest rates are still positive (my recent bond being an amusing outlier) and normal purchases, such as replacing a lost ship or weapons, happen on the order of weeks which means consumers can only expect a fraction of a percent change over the life of their purchase. That is too small to make a significant effect on consumption. Deflation in this small a measure simply isn't a problem.
What gains do you expect to see if deflation were stopped? How much brighter of a future would we have? I see much effort proposed for very little gain. Where as, championing a cause like an expanded set of tools for the secondary market might bring a new depth of gameplay, reward a very important and very overlooked segment of the playerbase and bring a wave of new investment that would ultimately benefit all players. There seem to be tons of causes more worthy of our time than fighting deflation.
nic capitalist propganda, withthe TL:DR version being "we want you to work as slavishly as possible to keep all the money for ourselves". There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess. |
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