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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.06.12 12:52:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 12:35:59
Originally by: Raven Alexandr What other activity in high sec is there besides mining requires you to need a fleet to do it efficiently or correctly?
Running L4's in T1 Cruisers would require a fleet... Running L3's in frigates would require a fleet... Running L2's in noob ships would require a fleet...
Challenges are everywhere you set yourself a goal! It doesn't need to be constricted by mission levels or other game parameters!
The point is that you're not REALLY interested in challenge and team-play. Behind your argument is only one thing: ISK!! You just try to cover it up by your talk of team-play and challenge...
Of course, everything in Eve is about isk, loosing or gaining it, in the end. Those mods and ships aren't free last I checked, maybe we don't play the same game? Who would train for a ship they can't afford? Of course theres no team-play in missions, they just aren't built for it. No need for remote reps etc except in lvl5s (I assume, haven't done lvl5s and now I never will).
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:00:00 -
[392]
Quote:
so for carebear pve players eve ends at level 4s
I have done both L4 and plexes in low sec (the low sec hub near Bei and also near Taff) and 0.0 (with DR) and it's actually better than hi sec.
I admit I have never done a L5 :S, I read they have heavy NOS and I don't like passive tanks (too long, boring).
Quote:
and for carebear miners it ends at the hulk
Training 1 pilot for Rorqual, besides it's in the next 3 BPOs I am going to buy
Quote:
and for carebear haulers it ends at the freighter
Nope, you can train for JF, the char I am using for missions can fly freighters already and I am going to make my Nomad as soon as I am done inventing my Vargur ;P
Quote:
How do you feel the risk/reward should be established with player trading?
Imho they should nerf the only "tainted" form of trading there is: 0.01 ISK single station trading. It promotes botting, it floods Jita with pointless alts doing 1 zillion micro-transactions. 0.01 ISK should only be available if you carry stuff in another system and thus run some risks, ie suicide ganking etc. Interregional trading and "slow selling" are fine and purely player controlled and don't bring in game a single ISK or a single item.
Quote:
What do you feel is the minimum skill/time criteria necessary for player trading compared to what is necessary to run level 4Ęs consistently using a Golem?
The same skill that is needed for RL training: know that you are meant to buy low and sell high. Can't really put many restrictions on such common sense, in fact EvE limits other things like number of open orders, number of contracts, fees...
Quote:
How about some PVE love? New missions (varying difficulty) Harder opponents New LP rewards focused on opening up new missions more epic arcs
1) Would not hurt. Well it would (ie push people refuge in hi sec) but I think those who only want to see the tip of the iceberg could get a little icing on it. 2) Same 3) There are already: in WHs and in low sec / 0.0. They are quasi-intelligent. 4) That wouldn't hurt 5) I'd love that.
Quote:
Some of us just aren't social. This is another failure in (dis)logic on the part of CCP
Actually CCP sell a MMORPG. Maybe it's just you who are not buying the right product?
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Jazz Tangle
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:02:00 -
[393]
Edited by: Jazz Tangle on 12/06/2010 13:02:46
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 12:35:59
Originally by: Raven Alexandr What other activity in high sec is there besides mining requires you to need a fleet to do it efficiently or correctly?
Running L4's in T1 Cruisers would require a fleet... Running L3's in frigates would require a fleet... Running L2's in noob ships would require a fleet...
Challenges are everywhere you set yourself a goal! It doesn't need to be constricted by mission levels or other game parameters!
The point is that you're not REALLY interested in challenge and team-play. Behind your argument is only one thing: ISK!! You just try to cover it up by your talk of team-play and challenge...
Well ask yourself why people would be remotely interested in missioning in lowsec? PVE vessels are no match for PVP fitted ships. And doing lvl5's (if playing for ISK or LP) is just not worth it ISK/Time wise if you need to take a PVP fleet to guard yourself, the PVP players guarding your ass would be bored as hell too. If you want to go fleet up and do a PVP roam, you'll find there's more challenge in hunting other fleets down instead of being aware some pirate group will interupt your mission which is just plain annoying, more than it being a "challenge".
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Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:04:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Lord Lefty stop trying to encourage us in to low sec please!!? it aint ever happening full stop....
Yes! That's the key point in all this. Players who prefer PvE are ALWAYS going to prefer PvE. It's not a choice between PvE and braving lo-sec or null-sec. It's a choice between PvE and leaving Eve.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:10:00 -
[395]
Making mission rewards less profitable makes people earn less isk. That means less money to spend on deadspace loot. We will see prices drop on lowsec/nullsec dropped loot. In the end, if CCP nerfs missionrunners, lowsec and nullsec-players income will also get nerfed.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:10:00 -
[396]
All of you are pessimists. I'm looking on the bright side 1 pointless and unpopular fix down - 2000 or so to go before they get round to fixing rockets _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Some Dewd
Some Corp.
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:11:00 -
[397]
OMG PUT LVL 5 MISSIONS BACK INTO EMPIRE NOW!!!!! OR ILL RUN INTO MY ROOM AND START SCREAMING AND PUNCH THE WALLS WHILE TRYING TO JAM MY TV REMOTE IN MY ASS!!!! HUH!!! HOW WOULD U LIKE THAT!!!!!! NOW GIVE LVL 5 MISSIONS BACK!!11!! AND RE SUB MY WOW ACOUNT NOW MUM AND DAD!!!!!!!! OMFG!!@!@
AND NOW MY ****EN BROTHER PUT A VIDEO OF IT ON YOUTUBVE OMFG I HATE EVERYTHING! LEAVE BRITANTY ALONE!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc
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Aidyr Contagryda
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:13:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Originally by: Lord Lefty stop trying to encourage us in to low sec please!!? it aint ever happening full stop....
Yes! That's the key point in all this. Players who prefer PvE are ALWAYS going to prefer PvE. It's not a choice between PvE and braving lo-sec or null-sec. It's a choice between PvE and leaving Eve.
Precisely.
All the juvenile insults in the world will not change the fact that 90% of the player base isn't in low/null FOR A REASON.
That isn't a part of EVE that we want. Making it impossible to play the game we want just means we'll find a different game.
Like it or not, PvP and CCP cannot survive without someone to prey upon. These are the rules of their own game.
I wondered why I wasn't getting anymore highsec L5 missions. As a Solo kind of person, this makes EVE much less attractive.
PvP simply cannot be paid for without some kind of income. Taking away the only practical form of it a Solo player has isn't going to transform a Solo Player into a social butterfly with a gun...
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:15:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: adriaans Edited by: adriaans on 12/06/2010 02:05:20 Whiners: Another thing, YOU doing lvl 5's in high sec does NOT increase people in low-sec, in fact it LOWERS it.
Yes this change will have a negligible effect on low-sec population, but finally we low-sec citizens are no longer sent to high sec and get the reward for fighting over these areas. If you do not want to do so then clearly you should not have the rewards.
Originally by: Quagnar No one uses a Tengu in low sec or 00, thier too expensive, its an empire ship with no use now.
rofl
I got several T3's in low-sec with more coming when i get the iskies
Why a pirate that is hated by empire gets missions from the empire factions baffles me. The hardest and the ones that requires most trust(standings) at that too. To be logical, remove lvl5s from non-carebears (from lowsec).
I have almost 8 faction standing so....
its concord that hates me, 2 of the empires love me --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here |
Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:17:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Jazz Tangle And doing lvl5's (if playing for ISK or LP) is just not worth it ISK/Time wise if you need to take a PVP fleet to guard yourself, the PVP players guarding your ass would be bored as hell too.
Originally by: Tarasina Of course, everything in Eve is about isk, loosing or gaining it, in the end.
You're both missing the point!
The whiner I was replying to was not complaining about earnings, but about teamwork and challenge! I merely showed that was still very much present in high-sec.
Each type of security sector has to have unique content to have a chance of attracting players. It just so happens that one of the contents earmarked for low-sec is L5 missions!
If you want to earn the high income that comes from L5's, then you have to actually risk your ship. If you're so afraid of losing your precious virtual internet spaceship, then you don't get that income... Simple risk/reward!
People ARE running L5's in low-sec, so it is proven they don't need to be available in high-sec to be used.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:22:00 -
[401]
Just popping in this tread to tell you all how much i enjoy reading all them sweet salty tears and that I'm going to enjoy blowing all you dirty carebears up even more.
<3 CCP
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Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:23:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 12:35:59
Originally by: Raven Alexandr What other activity in high sec is there besides mining requires you to need a fleet to do it efficiently or correctly?
Running L4's in T1 Cruisers would require a fleet... Running L3's in frigates would require a fleet... Running L2's in noob ships would require a fleet...
Challenges are everywhere you set yourself a goal! It doesn't need to be constricted by mission levels or other game parameters!
The point is that you're not REALLY interested in challenge and team-play. Behind your argument is only one thing: ISK!! You just try to cover it up by your talk of team-play and challenge...
Well problem with this argument is that they also want to try out and train for bigger/better ships. And considering that most care-bears are in a corp, they are interested in team-play.
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Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:27:00 -
[403]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 13:31:32
Originally by: Shin Dari
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Raven Alexandr What other activity in high sec is there besides mining requires you to need a fleet to do it efficiently or correctly?
Running L4's in T1 Cruisers would require a fleet... Running L3's in frigates would require a fleet... Running L2's in noob ships would require a fleet...
Challenges are everywhere you set yourself a goal! It doesn't need to be constricted by mission levels or other game parameters!
The point is that you're not REALLY interested in challenge and team-play. Behind your argument is only one thing: ISK!! You just try to cover it up by your talk of team-play and challenge...
Well problem with this argument is that they also want to try out and train for bigger/better ships. And considering that most care-bears are in a corp, they are interested in team-play.
Nothing is hindering them from training for bigger ships. Nothing is hindering them from using them.
...except perhaps that soul-destroying terror that is the fear of losing ones oh so precious virtual internet spaceship...
Contrary to what seems to be thought by most of the whiners in this thread, losing a virtual spaceship doesn't actually hurt
It's a pretty simple concept... Those who're willing to risk what they have, has a chance to make even more. Those not willing to risk gets only the leftovers (if you can call 60m/hour from L4's for 'leftovers')!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:33:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Jazz Tangle And doing lvl5's (if playing for ISK or LP) is just not worth it ISK/Time wise if you need to take a PVP fleet to guard yourself, the PVP players guarding your ass would be bored as hell too.
Originally by: Tarasina Of course, everything in Eve is about isk, loosing or gaining it, in the end.
You're both missing the point!
The whiner I was replying to was not complaining about earnings, but about teamwork and challenge! I merely showed that was still very much present in high-sec.
Each type of security sector has to have unique content to have a chance of attracting players. It just so happens that one of the contents earmarked for low-sec is L5 missions!
If you want to earn the high income that comes from L5's, then you have to actually risk your ship. If you're so afraid of losing your precious virtual internet spaceship, then you don't get that income... Simple risk/reward!
People ARE running L5's in low-sec, so it is proven they don't need to be available in high-sec to be used.
I like a challenge. And on that note, I bought a cynabal to run lvl4s. I know it's not the most efficient for earning isk but at least lvl4s are exciting again. I have to be more careful, doubt I can tank a whole room like I can with a battleship. But trying out "new" stuff (I'm not the first to run lvl4s in a cynabal) requires isk, as always.
My fun, if you haven't figured it out, is fitting ships and testing them against NPCs. BTW, class 1 wormhole in an inty? Not recommended.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:38:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Kerfira Contrary to what seems to be thought by most of the whiners in this thread, losing a virtual spaceship doesn't actually hurt
Actually, for me it really does hurt. Physically. In real life. I get this knot in my stomach when I lose an expensive ship. It's a feeling I really don't like, and I go to great lengths to avoid.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:38:00 -
[406]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/06/2010 13:45:32
Originally by: Kerfira It's a pretty simple concept... Those who're willing to risk what they have, has a chance to make even more. Those not willing to risk gets only the leftovers (if you can call 60m/hour from L4's for 'leftovers')!
This. The weird/crazy entitlement mentality makes people forget the basic principle of greater risk bringing greater potential reward which is what makes EVE have sense.
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Originally by: Kerfira Contrary to what seems to be thought by most of the whiners in this thread, losing a virtual spaceship doesn't actually hurt
Actually, for me it really does hurt. Physically. In real life. I get this knot in my stomach when I lose an expensive ship. It's a feeling I really don't like, and I go to great lengths to avoid.
After a few hundred losses you just shrug and get on with business as usual. I lost a total of 2.5 billion in Hurricanes alone (counting in insurance and everything), another 500+ million in BS, about 500+ million in other junk and about 1.25B in pods. So what?
(there's no risk for pirates at all, eh?) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:50:00 -
[407]
i laugh in the face of all the "i dont like risk" people :-P
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:53:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Originally by: Kerfira Contrary to what seems to be thought by most of the whiners in this thread, losing a virtual spaceship doesn't actually hurt
Actually, for me it really does hurt. Physically. In real life. I get this knot in my stomach when I lose an expensive ship. It's a feeling I really don't like, and I go to great lengths to avoid.
After a few hundred losses you just shrug and get on with business as usual.
Why would I intentionally subject myself to that much pain? This is supposed to be recreation, right?
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Dreadmaster Fluffy
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Posted - 2010.06.12 13:58:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor Why would I intentionally subject myself to that much pain? This is supposed to be recreation, right?
You should be aware that the only safe place is your mother's womb and that was a long time ago. Get used to it.
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:01:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Originally by: Kerfira Contrary to what seems to be thought by most of the whiners in this thread, losing a virtual spaceship doesn't actually hurt
Actually, for me it really does hurt. Physically. In real life. I get this knot in my stomach when I lose an expensive ship. It's a feeling I really don't like, and I go to great lengths to avoid.
After a few hundred losses you just shrug and get on with business as usual.
Why would I intentionally subject myself to that much pain? This is supposed to be recreation, right?
If you're such a poor looser why on earth are you playing games --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here |
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Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:02:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 13:31:32
Originally by: Shin Dari
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Raven Alexandr What other activity in high sec is there besides mining requires you to need a fleet to do it efficiently or correctly?
Running L4's in T1 Cruisers would require a fleet... Running L3's in frigates would require a fleet... Running L2's in noob ships would require a fleet...
Challenges are everywhere you set yourself a goal! It doesn't need to be constricted by mission levels or other game parameters!
The point is that you're not REALLY interested in challenge and team-play. Behind your argument is only one thing: ISK!! You just try to cover it up by your talk of team-play and challenge...
Well problem with this argument is that they also want to try out and train for bigger/better ships. And considering that most care-bears are in a corp, they are interested in team-play.
Nothing is hindering them from training for bigger ships. Nothing is hindering them from using them.
For what PvE challenge?
Quote: ...except perhaps that soul-destroying terror that is the fear of losing ones oh so precious virtual internet spaceship...
Losing a ship to a worthy PvE is ok.
Quote: It's a pretty simple concept... Those who're willing to risk what they have, has a chance to make even more.
As if the PvPers of low sec can talk about risk with a straight face.
Quote: Those not willing to risk gets only the leftovers (if you can call 60m/hour from L4's for 'leftovers')!
60m per hour, is imaginary.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:05:00 -
[412]
There is of course no point in trying to explain the viewpoint of PvE-ers to PvP-ers. If they had any empathy at all, they wouldn't enjoy a game style which involves nothing except destroying other people's property!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:14:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor There is of course no point in trying to explain the viewpoint of PvE-ers to PvP-ers. If they had any empathy at all, they wouldn't enjoy a game style which involves nothing except destroying other people's property!
Avoiding pirates in lowsec is not hard. In fact it is about as hard as avoiding people in 0.0 while ratting/plexing/running level 4s.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:15:00 -
[414]
The trouble is not 'I might lose a ship' the issue is that the value of the ship you need to put at risk to run a level 5 mission properly without a fleet of at least 5 players, and at the point where you're using 5 players it's so worthless you might as well run level 4s, the cost of a properly tanked ship is so high that so much as one loss in every 20 missions is enough to put you at a loss for doing level 5s.
That's all there is to it, if the likelihood of losing your ship is any greater than 5% than the risk is greater than the reward. Because even with 1 Billion isk made from level 5s that STILL won't replace a T2 Purger rigged Rattler which is basically the ONLY thing that properly tanked an Em/Thermal mission well.
Also, even if you wanted to fight other players in a level 5 mission, good luck, you have to tank upwards of 2-3k DPS while neutralized so hard that an active shield hardener can't operate, nevermind a warp disruptor.
If level 5s are meant to be part of null sec too, please add them to null sec CCP, I'm sure nobody would mind too bad. If level 5s aren't being added to null sec but will stay in low sec only, then please do a number of things.
#1 - fix NPC ECM. As of this moment NPC ECM is a flat percent chance to jam you, not based on sensor strength. Because of this RR fleets are almost impossible to run in jamming missions.
#2 - If not adding Level 5s to null sec, give level 5 missions sleeper AI. At the very least this will put pirates on equal footing with those running missions.
#3 - Please make acceleration gates for missions aggress players to the mission owner so that a level 5 defense force does not have to take GCC and a penalty for defending themselves against an obvious threat to themselves.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:17:00 -
[415]
Originally by: baltec1 Avoiding pirates in lowsec is not hard. In fact it is about as hard as avoiding people in 0.0 while ratting/plexing/running level 4s.
It's not hard, but it's boring. And extremely annoying when you slip up.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:21:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor It's not hard, but it's boring. And extremely annoying when you slip up.
But it doesnt stop you from ever doing level Vs. The only thing that does stop people from doing level Vs is themselves.
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Jazz Tangle
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:28:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Jazz Tangle on 12/06/2010 14:27:59
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor It's not hard, but it's boring. And extremely annoying when you slip up.
But it doesnt stop you from ever doing level Vs. The only thing that does stop people from doing level Vs is themselves.
lol, well there's a proper display of logic... I also like to see hot lesbian girls making out more than fat old tarts knitting a sweater.
Does risk disable me to look at fat tarts? I don't think so.. Would I stop myself from watching them? yes I would...
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Kimbeau Surveryor
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:29:00 -
[418]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor It's not hard, but it's boring. And extremely annoying when you slip up.
But it doesnt stop you from ever doing level Vs. The only thing that does stop people from doing level Vs is themselves.
Yes, true. But as I said earlier, this issue is really about whether missioneers will continue to enjoy Eve or not. Ultimately, the only thing stopping people from leaving Eve is themselves, too.
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Kerfira
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:29:00 -
[419]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 14:31:50
Originally by: Shin Dari
Quote: Those not willing to risk gets only the leftovers (if you can call 60m/hour from L4's for 'leftovers')!
60m per hour, is imaginary.
No... It's not...
Besides... Where do you get the PvE-only crap from? EVE is sold as primarily a PvP game...
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor Ultimately, the only thing stopping people from leaving Eve is themselves, too.
Ahh... The old "PEOPLE WILL QUIT AND EVE WILL DIE!" argument You know how silly you look when you make it?
Maybe 1% of the player base do L5's, maybe 1% of those will quit. That's 30 accounts... I think EVE will survive.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Rugs
Amarr Yakuza Corp THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:32:00 -
[420]
Excellent!
You added the risk back to "risk vs reward".
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