Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
|
CCP Claw
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:32:00 -
[1]
Hello tournament viewers
We've just discovered a flaw in some of the logic behind one of our rules checks, in particular the 60 day rule check. A character that was technically invalid to compete (Callie Nefarious of Red Overlord) was not caught by the check.
Whilst this does technically means that ROL's team for both games was illegal (and the fact that we didn't see the violation makes it no less of a violation), in this case we're going to go with allowing the results to stand as they are. The spirit of the rule is still being upheld in general (as everyone knows, this rule was intended to stop alt corps and so on from entering the tournament). Of course this character will not be eligible for future matches.
We've fixed the error and this won't happen again.
|
|
DHB WildCat
Flash Over. WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:34:00 -
[2]
The entire idea was to prevent alt teams from entering.
I for one agree with the decision and want the best competition to move on!
WildCat
|
Gorjer
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:35:00 -
[3]
Good choice imo
|
Anonymous Player
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:35:00 -
[4]
If my team is the bubble team, I'll be annoyed that ROL gets in as cheaters and teams that don't cheat get shafted :(
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Anonymous Player If my team is the bubble team, I'll be annoyed that ROL gets in as cheaters and teams that don't cheat get shafted :(
wah wah wah life isn't always completely fair and sometimes people makes decisions i don't agree with wah wah
looks like a good call by ccp. thumbs up "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game." |
Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:40:00 -
[6]
Fair move i reckon and for all the right reasons.
No need to spoil the tournament by disqualifying a team for this and no reason for the opponents to feel cheated by it either tbh. Thumbs up all round!
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:40:00 -
[7]
while I agree with your decision, i would like to point out that the issue was brought up on the this forum after the first weekend. (cant find the thread atm)
|
Ladel Teravada
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:42:00 -
[8]
Eh.. TBH, and we've had some correspondence previous years about this Claw, I think all rule transgressions should be punished. Only way I see that happening now afterwards is by point reduction...
That said... Of course I say that as they have 5 more points than us so treat my objection as you like.
Also, russians are evil. Admiral Ladel Teravada Admiral, Fleet Operations
|
Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:51:00 -
[9]
Honestly? Change that weird rule to "can only be part of one team during whole AT". It removes team jumping, and waiting 60days just because you want to take part as different team is just weird...
|
bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:56:00 -
[10]
although i would agree with ccp claw in not disqualifing rol i would say that a points deduction of whatever the player was flying just as if he had left the arena giving the other team the points as a kill
this would at least give the other team a chance of getting in
|
|
Callie Nefarious
NibbleTek RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Callie Nefarious on 12/06/2010 23:02:10 Well, its fun, but technically i was in ROL alliance more than 1 year... Just check my employment history, it's not so hard. Also, i am an alt of my "russian" main, fomka, who is well known member of russian eve-community, and my main was one of few people who make decision to create rol alliance (just for notice). Can you clarify you rules for me again, please? -----------------------------------------------
|
Harrigan VonStudly
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ladel Teravada Eh.. TBH, and we've had some correspondence previous years about this Claw, I think all rule transgressions should be punished. Only way I see that happening now afterwards is by point reduction...
That said... Of course I say that as they have 5 more points than us so treat my objection as you like.
Also, russians are evil.
Agreed. Rules are in place. If a team choses to knowingly violate them there should be a consequence. The alliance tournament is a team sport. As such there should be a team penalty in this case. Not just penalty to an individual. This rule violation has possibly hurt other "teams'" chances. Signature removed for inappropriate content. Zymurgist |
Alsyth
Night Warder
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: bloody johnroberts although i would agree with ccp claw in not disqualifing rol i would say that a points deduction of whatever the player was flying just as if he had left the arena giving the other team the points as a kill
this would at least give the other team a chance of getting in
This. Just like if Claw killed him for boundaries.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Callie Nefarious Well, its fun, but technically i was in ROL alliance more than 1 year... Just check my employment history, it's not so hard. Also, i am an alt of my "russian" main, fomka, who is well known member of russian eve-community, and my main was one of few people who make decision to create rol alliance (just for notice). Can you clarify you rules for me again, please?
4. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing for a minimum of 60 continuous days prior to the beginning of the tournament. For Alliance Tournament 8 this means that pilots must have been a member of their alliance before downtime on 06/04/10
i agree with claw tho, the matches are over and done with, no point in changing what points people got from them or doing penalties other than not letting the pilot compete in rest of tourney
|
Vongroth
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Anonymous Player If my team is the bubble team, I'll be annoyed that ROL gets in as cheaters and teams that don't cheat get shafted :(
wah wah wah life isn't always completely fair and sometimes people makes decisions i don't agree with wah wah
looks like a good call by ccp. thumbs up
So, because life isn't fair, people that cheat should not be punished? Tell that to the NCAA, who is taking away 14 wins from USC for using an ineligible player, including a NATIONAL TITLE, and possibly that player losing his Heisman trophy.
Sadly, comments like yours are a dark view into modern society, where responsibility for one's actions are a farce.
While I don't think that ROL should be disqualified, I think they should lose points for this. I also think HYDRA should should lose points for letting another team BUY a win, but that's a conversation for another day.
My view is that if you do something illegal, you should be penalized. I don't support a full disqualification, though, because that would not be fair for the other players on the team. However, to bring the NCAA into it again, vacating wins does effect other players on those teams, even if they had no knowledge. In EVE, it's a lot easier to see if someone is doing something against the rules (IE, check his corp history to determine how long he has been in the corp.)
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.06.12 23:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Originally by: Callie Nefarious Well, its fun, but technically i was in ROL alliance more than 1 year... Just check my employment history, it's not so hard. Also, i am an alt of my "russian" main, fomka, who is well known member of russian eve-community, and my main was one of few people who make decision to create rol alliance (just for notice). Can you clarify you rules for me again, please?
4. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing for a minimum of 60 continuous days prior to the beginning of the tournament. For Alliance Tournament 8 this means that pilots must have been a member of their alliance before downtime on 06/04/10
i agree with claw tho, the matches are over and done with, no point in changing what points people got from them or doing penalties other than not letting the pilot compete in rest of tourney
Agreed. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lord Lightcloud
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 01:40:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lord Lightcloud on 13/06/2010 01:40:14
Originally by: Ladel Teravada Eh.. TBH, and we've had some correspondence previous years about this Claw, I think all rule transgressions should be punished. Only way I see that happening now afterwards is by point reduction...
That said... Of course I say that as they have 5 more points than us so treat my objection as you like.
Also, russians are evil.
Agreed. You've made a mistake CCP, while disqualifying them may be a little to far, deducting points should be a punishment for a team that has cheated.
|
Koronos
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 01:46:00 -
[18]
Stain Alliance was disqualified from a match vs BoB because our lagged out bhaal with smartbombs fitted to destroy missiles vs the BoB caldari heavy team destroyed a pod of a bob frigate pilot that mwded straight into the bhaal. The rules (still) state "Intentionally" podkilling is not allowed.
This was the _wrong_ ruling. In this case CCP missing a character that has as of today been in the alliance for 45 days is definitely _not_ worth disqualifying the team. I could see some point penalty at CCP Claw's discretion, but he's running a pretty freaking awesome tournament so far so I'm cool with his decision.
|
Tertiacero
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 01:51:00 -
[19]
To all the people who are already getting butthurt about this decision: The idea is to keep people from applying with hundreds of alt alliances and then jumping all their characters to whatever alliance actually does get in. As this was obviously not the case here I believe the spirit of the rule was handily enforced. Stop being emo about nothing.
|
Massive Dragon
HAIL DRAGONS
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 01:55:00 -
[20]
i think its naive to assume that had this pilot not flown that rol still would not have won...
how few mach pilots do you think they have in their alliance?
right call, claw has done an amazing job so far.
|
|
Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 02:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lord Lightcloud team that has cheated.
|
Melanie Mumps
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 07:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Melanie Mumps on 13/06/2010 07:32:23 Fists of all this issue was mentioned in these very same forums and yet no one from ccp took interest.
Now im wondering why we have any rules in the alliance tournament at all seeing as they are disregarded at whim. ROL having pilots less than 60 days and allowed to compete without penalty check. We Form Voltron allowed to compete despite current alliance being less than required days old check.
Seeing as these infractions don't get punished as they should (minimum should be pints lost for ROL & WFV wouldn't even be competing) i suggest that all teams should try to cheat. Teams reading this should use implants that aren't allowed and ship fittings that aren't allowed and if you win, that's all that matters as precedent shows you wont get penalized. If you get caught beforehand all you have to do is say oops, i didn't realize i couldn't use high grade slave implants, and you'll just be asked to use a clone without them.
The rules for this Alliance tournament are a farce. Either have the frigging rules and stick to them or remove the frigging rules CCP.
|
Yakumo Smith
Gallente No End To Infinity Fleetingly Finite
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 07:46:00 -
[23]
Ultimately it is Claw's decision, but I do feel some point award to the enemies is also in order.
A lot of players didn't get to take part in the tournament due to knowing they did not meet the 60 day requirement and thus sat at the side while their alliance mates prepared for battle. They are getting penalised for following the rules, they miss out on flying in the tournament.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Zarch AlDain
GK inc. Panda Team
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 08:08:00 -
[24]
It's a tricky one for Claw to rule on but I think he made the right call.
The spirit of the rules (no alt alliances) was followed and it doesn't seem that there was a deliberate infraction. Certainly as already mentioned ROL will have other eligible pilots to fly that ship.
|
So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 08:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vongroth
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Anonymous Player If my team is the bubble team, I'll be annoyed that ROL gets in as cheaters and teams that don't cheat get shafted :(
wah wah wah life isn't always completely fair and sometimes people makes decisions i don't agree with wah wah
looks like a good call by ccp. thumbs up
So, because life isn't fair, people that cheat should not be punished? Tell that to the NCAA, who is taking away 14 wins from USC for using an ineligible player, including a NATIONAL TITLE, and possibly that player losing his Heisman trophy.
Sadly, comments like yours are a dark view into modern society, where responsibility for one's actions are a farce.
While I don't think that ROL should be disqualified, I think they should lose points for this. I also think HYDRA should should lose points for letting another team BUY a win, but that's a conversation for another day.
My view is that if you do something illegal, you should be penalized. I don't support a full disqualification, though, because that would not be fair for the other players on the team. However, to bring the NCAA into it again, vacating wins does effect other players on those teams, even if they had no knowledge. In EVE, it's a lot easier to see if someone is doing something against the rules (IE, check his corp history to determine how long he has been in the corp.)
Yes, well spoken Sir, I fully agree with the above post. Clearly laws, rules and regulations are in place for a reason, they are not wrong, they can never be wrong and there are never any exceptions. The one part I do not agree with is that the ROL team shouldn't be disqualified, they should in fact be banned from competing in all future tournaments, their alliance disbanded and their characters branded with a permanent "AT8 cheater" stamp to discourage future violations.
We simply cannot let this pass. No exceptions.
|
Grymmstrike
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 08:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Ultimately it is Claw's decision, but I do feel some point award to the enemies is also in order.
A lot of players didn't get to take part in the tournament due to knowing they did not meet the 60 day requirement and thus sat at the side while their alliance mates prepared for battle. They are getting penalised for following the rules, they miss out on flying in the tournament.
Exactly. I moved my PVP alt to my alliance 41 days ago after his old one died. Instead of being able to fly a ship with my 65m SP combat pilot for the AT8, we have people with 12m SP flying frigates. I'd have to say that my 65m SP PVP pilot would be a lot more useful than a 12m SP pilot who can't use T2 ships, and doesn't have half the useful skills I do.
Instead, we try and play by the rules, and get spat upon by ignorant game devs who could care less about the integrity of their game, and instead want to cater to whatever alliance drops to their knees in front of them.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 10:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 13/06/2010 10:16:08
man what a bunch of whiney little bitches
|
Suurimaami Mehmed
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 10:49:00 -
[28]
4. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing for a minimum of 60 continuous days prior to the beginning of the tournament. For Alliance Tournament 8 this means that pilots must have been a member of their alliance before downtime on 06/04/10
Well, callie does meet the requirements if he/she has been in rol for over a year in the past. Technicality lols.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 11:05:00 -
[29]
"punishment" for violating the 60 days rule is denial of participation in the tournament. This punishment is now applied as the transgression has been detected. Anything above and beyond this is simply not defined in the rules and thus out of the question.
It is due to a flaw in the verification process of CCP for the 60 days rule that the refusal to participate wasn't applied immediately before tournaments start and not really due to malevolent intention by the violating party.
Everything is perfectly in order. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
|
gigX
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2010.06.13 11:06:00 -
[30]
I totally agrea to not disqualify teams who showed both times, who didnt sell the match, who showed very good pvp setups in matches, because of that 60days rule.
This tournament was not so interesting before yesterday. To much teams who even dont know to make properly setup , selling matches and not showing on match. That showing how much those alliances are sirius for this competition.
ROL and CO2 showed yesterday expensive match from both sides and very good fight. As all of you can see ppl enjoyed watching that on live stream and on youtube after. Most people have forgotten the terrible previous matches. ...The power without control is nothing... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |