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Ap'Owen
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Posted - 2010.06.13 18:06:00 -
[1]
According to the description visibility makes it so that I can buy stuff from far off, and have it delivered locally, or at least that's how I read it, but I can't seem to make it happen. How do you work the skill visibility.
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Lillian Blu
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.13 18:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lillian Blu on 13/06/2010 18:31:10
Originally by: Ap'Owen According to the description visibility makes it so that I can buy stuff from far off, and have it delivered locally, or at least that's how I read it, but I can't seem to make it happen. How do you work the skill visibility.
Where did you hear that?
Edit: To clarify Visibility allows you to increase the buy order's range on remote buy orders, you can have any range on local order without Visibility.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.13 19:05:00 -
[3]
It works like this:
You place a buy order in your region from remote. The distance for remotely placing a buy order depends on how good your skill Procurement is.
When you do you choose a price, a quantity, a duration and a station where you want to place your buy order at. The initial radius of such a buy order is "Station".
To change the radius into "System", "1 jump", "2 jumps", etc. do you require the skill Visibility.
So this is the purpose of the skill Visibility and it only works in combination with Procurement and remotely placed buy orders. --
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2010.06.14 21:38:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Whitehound Buying something, either directly at a station or from remote, is not the same as placing a buy order.
Actually it is. When you click 'Buy' on the item, you create a buy order for the number of units and price you specified, with the range set to Station and the lifetime set to Instant (or whatever it's called).
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.14 22:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/06/2010 22:43:53
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: Whitehound Buying something, either directly at a station or from remote, is not the same as placing a buy order.
Actually it is. When you click 'Buy' on the item, you create a buy order for the number of units and price you specified, with the range set to Station and the lifetime set to Instant (or whatever it's called).
No, it is not. I have explained what the difference is right after the sentence you are quoting. That it has similarities is not surprising as they do both the same thing. Only a troll would point out the similarities while these are being completely irrelevant for explaining the use of Visibility, though. --
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente League of Gentlemen
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Posted - 2010.06.14 23:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 14/06/2010 23:22:18 As much as I hate to feed the troll, particularly when the quibble is irrelevant to OP...
When you buy things directly from market window, you are placing a buy order with range "station" and duration "immediate" at the station that item is at. This order is not affected by range skills such as procurement. You can, in fact, watch this phenomenon by choosing to "buy" and then swapping to the advanced order screen to see how it is set up.
EDIT: replaced "price" with "duration". Also, noting you can put up buy orders that immediately fill with other sell orders using the standard "place buy order" button.
Regarding high-sec mining:
Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.15 08:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/06/2010 08:19:15
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane When you buy things directly from market window, you are placing a buy order with range "station" and duration "immediate" at the station that item is at.
I have explained what the difference is. With one do you buy directly what is available and with the other do you buy what is not available. You cannot directly buy what is not available. The difference is in how you use it and not how the game mechanics realize it or if it is all ones and zeros in a binary system.
Do you now understand the difference? --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.15 08:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Whitehound I have explained what the difference is. With one do you buy directly what is available and with the other do you buy what is not available. You cannot directly buy what is not available. The difference is in how you use buy orders and not how the game mechanics realize it.
Have you tried setting up a buy order with "immediate" duration for an amount that's larger than what is available? Do it and see what happens. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/06/2010 09:01:57
Originally by: Tippia Have you tried setting up a buy order with "immediate" duration for an amount that's larger than what is available? Do it and see what happens.
You go and place a buy order for a million 1-ISK-worth items and enter 1,000,000.00 ISK for the buying price, a million for the quantity, at any duration, from remote or at the station, and you see what happens. And, please, do it at Dodixie. Thank you in advance. --
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Devil tiger
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:09:00 -
[10]
Actually the difference in visibility vs no visibility is this:
When you sell stuff you see orders high lighted in green. Those greens bars are the ones which you can sell into.
The bigger your visibility skill the farther away from the station you had placed your order, your bid effects.
In other words, let the chavs buy stuff for 1000 when you get it for 500 because of visibility enabling you to be the buyer in more stations where the other guys 1000 isk orders doesn't effect and is "stuck" with only one station because he doesn't have visibility.
The best part of visibility is that you won't need to monitor your buy orders constantly to be at the top in order to get your buy filled up.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Whitehound You go and place a buy order for a million 1-ISK-worth items and enter 1,000,000.00 ISK for the buying price, a million for the quantity, at any duration, from remote or at the station, and you see what happens. And, please, do it at Dodixie. Thank you in advance.
Why, when that has no bearing on the topic at hand?
I take it you haven't tried then, and noticed that, no, there is no difference? A direct purchase is simply a buy-order preset where the duration is set to "immediate," and the range is set to "station." Set a buy-order up manually with the same settings and it behaves identically to a direct purchase. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia Why, when that has no bearing on the topic at hand?
I am asking myself the same question about your comments all the time!
Quote: I take it you haven't tried then, and noticed that, no, there is no difference? A direct purchase is simply a buy-order preset where the duration is set to "immediate," and the range is set to "station." Set a buy-order up manually with the same settings and it behaves identically to a direct purchase.
I do not need to try it, Tippia. Stop being always such a troll to anything I write.
It is always buy orders and no one is denying this. It is why they are called "buy orders". Do not be so ridiculously stupid all the time . Visibility only affects the buying range and it often gets confused with buying something directly from remote. Go and read the OP's comment. He expects it to get it delivered! Therefore it is very important to point out the use cases - direct buy orders and placed buy orders. Telling me that one can place a buy order to directly buy something is of no ****ing use to explaining Visibility. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Whitehound I do not need to try it
It sounds like you do.
Quote: Stop being always such a troll to anything I write.
Stop feeding the newbies over-simplified half-truths. Oh, and correcting someone ≠ trolling.
Quote: It is always buy orders and no one is denying this.
No-one except you.
Quote: Visibility only affects the buying range and it often gets confused with buying something directly from remote. Go and read the OP's comment. He expects it to get it delivered! Therefore it is very important to point out the use cases - direct buy orders and placed buy orders. Telling me that one can place a buy order to directly buy something is of no ****ing use to explaining Visibility.
True enough, but that doesn't mean you should confuse him further. Hell, while it would be a bit long-winded and would rely on some tortured metaphors, you could even explain Visibility without ever going into the difference between the various buy-order short cuts (although you probably need to explain Procurement at the same time), and his confusion about the delivery can be explained without even bothering to go into the skills.
eg. Procurement and Visibility work in conjunction when you purchase things to determine where and how wide you cast your net. Procurement lets you put the centre of that net at some distance away from your current location, and Visibility lets you decide how large that net is. However, no matter how you buy stuff, they always appear at the station where they're sold ù you have to arrange for the transport, either by doing it yourself or by using courier contracts. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.15 18:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia It sounds like you do.
No, I do not, because it is irrelevant for the topic that I have tried.
Quote: Stop feeding the newbies over-simplified half-truths. Oh, and correcting someone ≠ trolling.
There is no half-truth here, instead, it is important for an explanation to be as simple as possible for it to be understood.
Quote: No-one except you.
Again no, I am also not denying it, it is only of no relevance to the topic.
Quote: True enough, but that doesn't mean you should confuse him further.
You, Tippia, are disturbed.
First, learn what an order is. It is similar to a command in that it is given to someone or something. You order someone to do something. When you give an order to someone or something one simply says you give an order or you are ordering, while omitting the recipient. This has nothing to do with placing an order. The difference between placing and giving is as simple as giving your wallet to someone or placing your wallet infront of someone. Only to a thief does placing and giving not make a difference.
When you give an order to have someone or something do a purchase for you then one speaks of giving a buy order. If the order is given directly then one says it is a directly given order or a direct order as there is no redirection or indirection in how the order is given.
However, placing an order means for it to be picked up, or to be taken, before it can become an order. Here, placing a buy order implies that it also is taken up before a purchase can be done. One can also say that it is an indirect buy order as the order is given only indirectly.
Now, why can one use placed buy orders in EVE to make direct purchases? If one would place a buy order while it has items on the market for the same or a better price than your buy order, would it force the seller of those items to remove its sell order and to sell directly to you, unless the seller does not want to sell to you. It would create more orders on the market than necessary and make trading unnecessarily complicated. For the developers does it mean to have fewer orders in the system and for the players does it mean more convenience in how we trade. I doubt that many players will use this feature or would want to have it removed. --
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:38:00 -
[15]
Tippia and Whitehound are on it again! Somebody get CCP Navigator!
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Shoogie
Serious Pixels
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Posted - 2010.06.16 19:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Tritanius Tippia and Whitehound are on it again! Somebody get CCP Navigator!
Yeah, it's funny when one accuses the other of being off topic, when they are BOTH off topic.
They are arguing about WHEN you can buy stuff. The Visibility skill only deals with WHERE you can buy stuff.
In this game, nothing is ever magically transported from one place to another.
That is important. There are no magical transporters in this game. When you dock in a station and place a buy order for something, one of your options is the range of the buy order. If the range is limited to station, that means you expect the seller to fly to you and sell it to you in this station. If you set the range to 5 jumps, you are in effect saying, "I am willing to pick up the item at any station within a 5 jump radius of here." WIth a range of "region" you may have to travel to any station in the region to pick up your item.
A character with no skills at all can do the above as long as they are docked in the station at the center of their buy order.
But sometimes traveling to a station to set up a buy order is inconvenient. If you want to set up a buy order in one station, but you happen to be somewhere else <mining> <missioning> <picking your nose> <spinning your ship>. You need the Procurement skill to do this. This is very useful to buy items at your local trade hub without actually going to the local trade hub.
When you set a remote buy order using the Procurement skill, you are limited to a single station. What if you don't care which station in that system you pick up your goods? Then you need the Visibility skill to set a range on your remote buy order. If you set the range to system, you are in effect saying, "I am willing to pick up the item at any station in that system over there."
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shoogie Yeah, it's funny when one accuses the other of being off topic, when they are BOTH off topic.
I do know that, but someone has to fill the girl's head. I do not see you doing it. --
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Whitehound
... stuff ...
And still, the eve client issues a buy order if you buy stuff from a sell order. You cannot deny game mechanics with your rhetoric. And maybe it may not semantically fit, but it's still a buy order, and it still works exactly as a buy order.
If you think this is wrong, you can always file a bug report, i'm sure the BH will be very amused.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.16 23:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Qoi And still, the eve client issues a buy order if you buy stuff
It would not be called a buy order if you were selling stuff, right. --
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