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Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:27:00 -
[1]
Having googled the subject and read a few blogs/forum recitations on the subject, I realize that i'm not breaking any ground here, but i'm seeking a little advice for several reasons:
1. All the reading i've done has been seriously dated, more than 4 years old in most cases. 2. Most of the self-described "null newbs," have gone out to spend their time roleplaying while my focus is diffirent.
To that end, i'll first describe my premise: I'll be taking my 20ish day old account into the wilderness (not the region, just a figure of speech) of 0.0 space with around 5-6million isk. I have no other accounts to rely on, no in-game contacts from which to draw help, and very little in the way of experience in survival aside from making safespot bookmarks. I intend to remain in null space for at least one full year. My goal is to both provide myself a decent income and explore the various aspects of the game in EVE without the safty-net of CONCORD and the money-tree of high-sec mission running.
My quesitons are: a.How should a newb start establishing herself in 0.0 in terms of isk. I assume that there will be many dead clones and ship-wrecks in my future. What kind of isk-making opportunites should I look for to offset these risks? b.What kind of preperations (skill wise) should I make before venturing into un-secure space full-time? c.What systems (if any) in null can provide me with the basics IÆll need to keep my operations afloat? Ie. Will I need to return to empire space in order to buy skill-books or any other necessities? Any other opinions and advice are appreciated. -Geia
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dankness420
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:35:00 -
[2]
get a GSC and come to venal and salvage my wrecks
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Nobzy
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:45:00 -
[3]
Obviously the most important part to know is that all null space is owned and or controlled by someone, even the NPC null space.
Knowing this, you will have to pick a side for your year of null life to be viable to any extent.
As a noobie there are very little isk making opportunities open to you, mainly because of the amount of isk and skill points required to get in to a ship to blow up rats. Planetary Interaction is a logistics hell in null space, exploration sites you can't do without a bulky ship or lots of friends.
Mining you could do obviously, but that again requires access to an outpost, meaning docking rights and having a reprocessing plant.
So your best bet would be salvaging belt rats. Ask people who rat, if you can take the salvage and you can do decent, constant iskies that way. Of course you still need access to an outpost to store and sell your stuff, but that is something that is viable as an isk source for someone of your size.
As for general advice how to survive in null, the most important one is always have your eyes on local, learn to use the directional scanner, have friends close by and never fly what you can't afford to lose.
Even if you can afford to lose your ship, be mindful that getting a replacement in null space is difficult because of lack of market, and very expensive even if you find what you're after.
Also, skillbooks are usually a big no no in player null. I suppose you can get them in NPC null though.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:52:00 -
[4]
Join a corp.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis Join a corp.
Join a corp.
EVE Online may be played solo but that doesn't mean you should, especially in 0.0 space. I guess you could sweet talk your way into blue status with the all the surrounding players and I wish you good luck if you try this route.
Make friends, kill rats, mine roids, hunt down enemies. Goonswarm and recently Dreddit have proved the power of new players in a Rifter.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 21:07:33 Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 21:04:48 It sounds to me like 'npc' space would be the ideal place to start, given i'm going to need a ready-made shelter for sure.
It's pretty disheartening to hear that everything has been claimed (though after 7 years, i guess it's no wonder), but are there any areas where smaller groups tend to cluster? I'm not opposed to joining a corp (I really have nothing to loose either way), but being a slave to some conglomorate of high-end players does not appeal to me in the least. I'd much rather do my own thing with a smaller group of players than march to the drum beat of an overlord in a large army.
It seems like there are ample opportunities out there, I'd just like to get pointed in the right direction to begin with. If the answer is really "there's no opportunity to make it in null without billions in ship spending and skills to match, i'll be quite dissapointed.
Oh, and thank you both for the insightful brow-beating that this is an MMO and I should endeavor to join a corp. I get it. If you have any more specific advice i'd love to hear it.
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Taxesarebad
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:09:00 -
[7]
NPC space has the benefit of no sovereignty so u can dock at npc stations, but other people think the same and NPC space seems to have more people =\ i would say try and join a large alliance that has 0.0 access, you can pvp in 0.0 with noob ships and salvaging makes money if u follow a ratter but goodluck anyways
-------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;) |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Geia Roja It sounds to me like 'npc' space would be the ideal place to start, given i'm going to need a ready-made shelter for sure.
It's pretty disheartening to hear that everything has been claimed (though after 7 years, i guess it's no wonder), but are there any areas where smaller groups tend to cluster? I'm not opposed to joining a corp (I really have nothing to loose either way), but being a slave to some conglomorate of high-end players does not appeal to me in the least. I'd much rather do my own thing with a smaller group of players than march to the drum beat of an overlord in a large army.
There are plenty of small groups that do their own thing, although to be honest wormhole space is better for that sort of thing. I suggest you talk to a recruiter for a wormhole corp and get a sense of what all that is about, wormholes can be a fun alternative to standard 0.0 fare. Many WH corps do more traditional 0.0 stuff as well.
If you're devoted to the solo cause, then NPC space is definitely your best bet. Back in '05 when I as starting out, I saved up enough money for an assault frig and ammo BPOs/minerals. I then took my equipment down in a speed fit hauler on one quiet night and set up in a remote system in Syndicate, and followed down in my assault frig. I spent the next couple weeks ninja ratting and avoiding the local roaming gangs (goonfleet was new to the game at that time and roamed syndicate in giant frig gangs).
I eventually saved up enough for a Thorax BPO, and thus started my career as a trader/industrialist. The time spent in Syndicate was fun for sure. If you have the patience and sense to pull it off, a solo adventure is something every new eve pilot should do. That said, I really think Wormhole space is better for this type of thing because of the delayed local chat. In 0.0 with immediate local, prepare to spend a lot of time sitting at a safe spot waiting for people to pass through.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Geia Roja It's pretty disheartening to hear that everything has been claimed (though after 7 years, i guess it's no wonder), but are there any areas where smaller groups tend to cluster?
Syndicate. __________
Multispectacular. |
Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 21:19:58
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Geia Roja It's pretty disheartening to hear that everything has been claimed (though after 7 years, i guess it's no wonder), but are there any areas where smaller groups tend to cluster?
Syndicate.
Sounds like those small groups might be hostile, eh?
Originally by: mechtech stuff
My probing skills are pretty flimsy at best, but i'll do some research into the worm-hole thing.
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Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:27:00 -
[11]
as others said, join a corp.
i moved to 0.0 within a week of starting. Granted it was a slightly different time, this was 5 years ago, there weren't even capitals yet and you started with like 900k SP (no double speed thing). 0.0 was a much harsher place than it is now. outposts everywhere, ease of transport of goods, etc. You don't have to buy a BS in empire and ninja is 50 jumps into 0.0 anymore.
I found a corp to join in the recruitment channel, hopped in my kessie, flew through HED down into esoteria where they lived. Snuck up into stain and started running level 1 missions. Eventually got into a ferox and started ninja belt ratting and helping haul for mining ops. Ran around making bookmark sets for areas we were going to be fighting (no warp to 0 at the time). Basically whatever they needed while i learned the game and trained up skills to be an effective fighter. I trained up cepters as soon as i could make some isk from rating as at the time it was about the fastest way to get into an effective ship for fighting. Today you can train into BC's and have a ship that is a decent ratter and is used a lot in small-medium gang fighting.
Its a lot easier today honestly. You can help haul/salvage for people running plexes now and make decent isk. You can haul for mining ops (gross but maybe you like mining, *shrug*). You can help out by making tactical BM's around gates/station/etc. Theres a lot you can actually do to help out a 0.0 corp. Its mostly 'crap work' but it gives you to opportunity to learn a lot about the game along the way. The key is that you are active and show initiative. Talk on voice comms, ask questions, ask what you can do to help.
0.0 is mostly what you make it, if your try to go out there solo as a noob you'll find it a terrible place were everyone and everything is trying to kill you (because they are).
Make some friends.
I moved to 0.0 5 years ago a week into playing and i'm still flying with the same people that i met that first week.
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Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:35:00 -
[12]
I'm currently corp browsing via the forums. Something general with a lot of things to try would be best. I really havent played long enough to know what I like and dislike (other than mining, which I trained for to begin with, only to discover it's both boring and earns pathetic income at this point in time).
So, anyone familiar with newb friendly corps?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:43:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 13/06/2010 21:44:23
Quote: but being a slave to some conglomorate of high-end players does not appeal to me in the least
Perhaps they should have phrased things a bit differently. They should have said "join a GOOD corp", one that does not treat you like a slave. You might contact Agony Empire, or check out Ivy League (although last I checked the latter was Empire based).
Edit: As a side note, if you join Agony I'll likely be shooting at you. As long as you are not risk adverse (and apparently you are not) they are a good choice.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
V'hellu
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Geia Roja I'm currently corp browsing via the forums. Something general with a lot of things to try would be best. I really havent played long enough to know what I like and dislike (other than mining, which I trained for to begin with, only to discover it's both boring and earns pathetic income at this point in time).
So, anyone familiar with newb friendly corps?
They're incredibly rare in null sec. Most null-sec corps have a sp minimum of around 15 million. It's not a bad idea either, considering that it does require a good bit of sp just to make enough isk and survive in null sec.
And yep, mining is boring.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.06.13 21:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Geia Roja Sounds like those small groups might be hostile, eh?
Hostile sounds so mean!
I prefer to say, we engage in involuntary and unexpected ship to ship intimacy mainly through the aft exhaust portal. __________
Multispectacular. |
Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 22:11:43
Originally by: V'hellu
They're incredibly rare in null sec. Most null-sec corps have a sp minimum of around 15 million. It's not a bad idea either, considering that it does require a good bit of sp just to make enough isk and survive in null sec.
Sad to hear. That seems to be the feeling I get talking to the few people in-game that experienced the null space stuff. I don't think i'll wait for another 13million+ sp to venture into null. Im not sure how many months or years that would take me to build up, but empire life is quite boring, so if no corp is willing to take me in juts yet, I suppose i'll have to shuttle around and make some friends first. =)
@Ranger, i'm definitly not risk-averse.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Geia Roja Sounds like those small groups might be hostile, eh?
Hostile sounds so mean!
I prefer to say, we engage in involuntary and unexpected ship to ship intimacy mainly through the aft exhaust portal.
surprise butsecks?
Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:18:00 -
[18]
Go to lowsec, not nullsec. I think it would be easier while still getting the same sense of risk and exploration. This game is sucky in that you really do need a basic amount of sp before you can be useful.
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:22:00 -
[19]
Go half-way and try your experiment in low-sec. Fit your noob-ship with two salvagers and earn some isk that way, salvaging wrecks left by ratters, FW fleets/missioners, and pies. Build up a collection of T1 blueprints and live off the land. (You might have to do some mining for low-end minerals, and hauling from Empire (or re-process) for the small amounts of high-ends you'll need.)
Try to stick to T1 as much as you can, but you might want to eventually work your way into a T2 CovOps frigate at least. With three T2 ships w/T2 fits (Blockade Runner, CovOps, & Stealth Bomber) and a selection of T1 BPOs (mining cruiser, combat cruiser, a few frigs, and an assortment of modules and ammo), you could be almost completely self-sufficient, highly mobile, and make enough isk to cover your needs. (Just don't let your T2 ships get popped...)
With a Stealth Bomber you can do most Faction Warfare missions as well, if that's of any interest to you. You can make a tidy sum of isk selling tags and loyalty-point store items.
After a (long?) while, with enough skill points and isk, you can take the next step (possibly in a T3 cruiser and a few BPOs), and try the same thing in NPC 0.0?
Would be an interesting way of playing the game, for sure. Just be careful and, as the X-Com 3 poster would advise you: Don't Get Hurt. :) |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: V'hellu
Originally by: Geia Roja I'm currently corp browsing via the forums. Something general with a lot of things to try would be best. I really havent played long enough to know what I like and dislike (other than mining, which I trained for to begin with, only to discover it's both boring and earns pathetic income at this point in time).
So, anyone familiar with newb friendly corps?
They're incredibly rare in null sec. Most null-sec corps have a sp minimum of around 15 million. It's not a bad idea either, considering that it does require a good bit of sp just to make enough isk and survive in null sec.
And yep, mining is boring.
There are plenty of corps operating in 0.0 that will accept just about anyone.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Geia Roja Sad to hear. That seems to be the feeling I get talking to the few people in-game that experienced the null space stuff. I don't think i'll wait for another 13million+ sp to venture into null. Im not sure how many months or years that would take me to build up, but empire life is quite boring, so if no corp is willing to take me in juts yet, I suppose i'll have to shuttle around and make some friends first. =)
@Ranger, i'm definitly not risk-averse.
You can survive in null-sec on your own if you are careful, and make a decent amount of money. However, and you'll forgive me here as I haven't actually read most of this thread, if you're going there for PvE content, there is little point. While you CAN score some really awesome and expensive things from belt rats, plexs, etc., you are at constant risk from roaming gangs and solo players - and trust me, solo PvPers are usually quite good at taking down bigger ships and the ones they can't take down, they can hold till their friends show up ().
For PvE, Empire is far better. More money, less risk.
That said, if you ARE looking for PvP. Yes, nullsec is WAY better. No sec penalty, no gate guns, any target you want, you can shoot at. You'll likely die a million times, but it's so much fun - I was a total carebear till I tried nullsec for the first time with one of my first corps. Then I was hooked.
The NPC regions are the places you need to be as you can dock at any station. Somewhere else you might consider is Providence, though it's a warzone right now, and is dangerous, but the Star Fraction controlled space and at some point Usrha'Khan (sp) controlled space will be NRDS (not red don't shoot) so you will have some freedom of movement.
TL:DR - All 0.0 space is hostile. :) But it's fun, and isn't that what the game is about? __________
Multispectacular. |
Geia Roja
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:31:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 22:35:05
Originally by: Ori Blake Go to lowsec, not nullsec. I think it would be easier while still getting the same sense of risk and exploration. This game is sucky in that you really do need a basic amount of sp before you can be useful.
I'm pretty set on going full-monty into null sec. I've been in low-sec quite a bit for missions and exploring, but it seems largely devoid of isk-making opportunities, unless i'm missing something. Not that i'm out to make a fortune or anything. Just seems sparse. At the next post, i'm not a carebear, nor am I out to gun down everything that moves. I enjoy all aspects of the game and I just want to base myself in a place that's got a little bit of everything.
I'm a little fuzzy on what all logistics to pack on my move out, but i'm starting to get an idea from some of the posts that i ought to look into getting some blueprints. Thanks for the advice.
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V'hellu
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:31:00 -
[23]
Edited by: V''hellu on 13/06/2010 22:31:27
Originally by: Geia Roja Edited by: Geia Roja on 13/06/2010 22:11:43
Sad to hear. That seems to be the feeling I get talking to the few people in-game that experienced the null space stuff. I don't think i'll wait for another 13million+ sp to venture into null. Im not sure how many months or years that would take me to build up, but empire life is quite boring, so if no corp is willing to take me in juts yet, I suppose i'll have to shuttle around and make some friends first. =)
You could try that. Just know that since you don't know anyone out there yet, you won't be able to dock at any of the outposts, most likely. Also, since you're neutral, a lot of people will try to shoot you.
Honestly I think the best way, if you REALLY want to get into a null-sec corp, is to look at the alliance rankings and then look at their member corps for the ones in null sec. Try to find one with a public chatroom, join up, and see if they're willing to let you come out. Otherwise, if you shuttle around you'll most likely get caught up in a gate camp and get shot tbh.
@ malcanis: No, there are not plenty of null sec corps who will take just about anyone. Quit lying.
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Betty Sw'ollocks
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:38:00 -
[24]
You could make a fortune ninja looting officer gear off dead capital fleets.
Just be very fast about it.
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Obyrith
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Posted - 2010.06.13 22:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Obyrith on 13/06/2010 23:02:20
Originally by: Geia Roja Oh, and thank you both for the insightful brow-beating that this is an MMO and I should endeavor to join a corp. I get it. If you have any more specific advice i'd love to hear it.
Thing is, if you JOIN A CORP you can get the rest of the advice you need in much more detail, from people who are motivated to care at least a little bit about you.
It's pretty obvious reading between the lines that you aren't looking to join a corp, and have fantasies about making it (in some vaguely defined way) on your own. I had them myself (for a while I even had a plan to go mine Arkonor in GW in a Scythe, lol). Trust me, everything you can do solo you can do at just as great a risk to yourself in a corp - but you'll also have the option of taking a break and being given help now and then when you want. It's a win-win.
EDIT: I need to read the whole thread for the OP's repsonses before replying.
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Safrel
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Posted - 2010.06.13 23:01:00 -
[26]
When i first went to 0.0, all I could do was fly a hulk, and as good as this is, its totally useless if you cant even solo kill BS's. yea.... Lucky me, my corp managed to help me out. And we accept almost anyone...
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.06.13 23:02:00 -
[27]
Don't be a sheep!
There is no rush to get into a corp.
ATM low sec is the place to be. Mostly that is because your skills would be insufficient at ratting in 0.0. Skill books are available in low sec as well. You can not get them in 0.0 unless the are imported.
The most critical part of operating solo in 0.0 is getting a covert ops ship. It makes getting essentials like skill books and BPC's into 0.0 much much easier. You can do without a covert ops but it makes you life easier.
Buy BPC's and manufacture what you need from reprocessing rat loot drops. Even with poor skills it is more efficient to build at home instead of carting finished ships in.
TBH you might be able to handle 0.0 ratting. I took Ashina into 0.0 at 3 months. She started with 30k SP and I think she had about 1.6 million when she headed out. It could work I suppose. That was back before HIC's though. Smaller crowds too.
I guess I need to make that "Drone tanking for the 0.0 ratting Noob" video. Here is a link to some basic PvP videos.
In closing there are a limited number of places you can do this at. Syndicate, Curse and Stain. The other NPC regions have to few stations to do what your intending. Curse and Stain are not connected to Empire space. Syndicate has multiple entry points from High and Low sec. If you plan on staying in 0.0 then you can run missions for the local agents. That helps with reprocessing and gives up access to underutilized pirate faction LP stores.
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V'hellu
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Posted - 2010.06.13 23:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Safrel When i first went to 0.0, all I could do was fly a hulk, and as good as this is, its totally useless if you cant even solo kill BS's. yea.... Lucky me, my corp managed to help me out. And we accept almost anyone...
When I was in a noob corp, there was a guy who swore he could kill the 0.0 bs's with a punisher fitted with autocannons.
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Mar Lee
An Army of None
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Posted - 2010.06.13 23:35:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Mar Lee on 13/06/2010 23:37:20
Originally by: V'hellu
Originally by: Safrel When i first went to 0.0, all I could do was fly a hulk, and as good as this is, its totally useless if you cant even solo kill BS's. yea.... Lucky me, my corp managed to help me out. And we accept almost anyone...
When I was in a noob corp, there was a guy who swore he could kill the 0.0 bs's with a punisher fitted with autocannons.
You can easily (albeit slowly) kill 0.0 belt rats with a t1 frigate. I'd recommend using lasers, though, unless you have a good source of small ammo :)
(Edit: you might not, depending on gunnery skills, be able to break the tank of the high end battleships. But they won't be able to hurt you either :P )
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.06.14 00:16:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Gladys Pank on 14/06/2010 00:19:31 This is how I did it...
... you may wish for a more successful op.
Linkage
edit made it a link
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