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Help with EULA, is real money collateral against the rules?

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Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:42:00 - [1] - Quote I'm offering bonds over at the market discussion forums, and my offer is coming under extreme scrutiny due to the fact that I am playing on a new account (just came back to eve) One idea was to offer collateral by giving real money to a third party, and then receiving the money back when all the bonds are paid off. So technically, it's not really a real-money exchange, but it is a temporary real-money transfer for use in in-game activities. Any experts good at reading between the lines that could help me out?
Charles Baker Federal Mineral Acquisition 63	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:46:00 - [2] - Quote No expert, but it's almost certainly a EULA Breach to offer real money, however you could use said money to buy PLEX then use those PLEX as Collateral.
Micheal Dietrich Kings Gambit Black 549	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:46:00 - [3] - Quote Just buy a plex and turn it into isk and then you're legal in the sense. They have a section in the EULA about exchanging services in game for real world currency and vice versa.
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:50:00 - [4] - Quote Micheal Dietrich wrote: Just buy a plex and turn it into isk and then you're legal in the sense. They have a section in the EULA about exchanging services in game for real world currency and vice versa. Would I be paying for a service, if I allow someone to hold real money, and then I receive the full amount back? Essentially paying $0? (technically not counting time-value of money, if you wanna go that far)
Mallak Azaria 331	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 - [5] - Quote Mr Bushar wrote: I'm offering bonds over at the market discussion forums, and my offer is coming under extreme scrutiny due to the fact that I am playing on a new account (just came back to eve) One idea was to offer collateral by giving real moneyto a third party, and then receiving the money back when all the bonds are paid off. So technically, it's not really a real-money exchange, but it is a temporary real-money transfer for use in in-game activities. Any experts good at reading between the lines that could help me out? In this case, it's essentially a gift & you'd have no recourse with anyone if the third party chose to not return your gift to you, as it was a gift.
Forum Foreplay Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 - [6] - Quote Or just earn the money you need? Even a sandbox has borders to keep the sand inside...
Micheal Dietrich Kings Gambit Black 549	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:52:00 - [7] - Quote Mr Bushar wrote: Micheal Dietrich wrote: Just buy a plex and turn it into isk and then you're legal in the sense. They have a section in the EULA about exchanging services in game for real world currency and vice versa. Would I be paying for a service, if I allow someone to hold real money, and then I receive the full amount back? Essentially paying $0? (technically not counting time-value of money, if you wanna go that far) You do understand what collateral means right?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 8589	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:52:00 - [8] - Quote IIRC, in-game cash for a very small and very specific set of out-of-game services is ok. Out-of-game-cash for any kind of in-game services generally is not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
Shameless Avenger 267	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:53:00 - [9] - Quote I see you offered your hair as collateral in the past. "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" ~ The Story of the Ninja
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:54:00 - [10] - Quote Forum Foreplay wrote: Or just earn the money you need? I'm earning a lot, nothing wrong with earning even more :)
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:55:00 - [11] - Quote Shameless Avenger wrote: I see you offered your hair as collateral in the past. Just a really bad haircut gone wrong... I swear....
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 704	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:01:00 - [12] - Quote If only there was some way to contact the GMs directly, instead of hoping they will notice the forum thread. Something like a ticket, or a petition system...
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 243	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:07:00 - [13] - Quote not cool (see also Linkage)
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:09:00 - [14] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: not cool (see also Linkage) Thanks a lot for this!!! Too bad :(
Sarah Schneider PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 1410	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:28:00 - [15] - Quote Why not just ask via a petition to get a more direct and accurate answers? Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1663	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:33:00 - [16] - Quote RMT is forbidden for everybody except CCP themselves. In the Real Money Trading term, trading is in the broadest sense, that is any kind of money changing hands for whatever reason is seen as trading and thus is forbidden. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1641	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:35:00 - [17] - Quote So why not turn it into PLEX and give it to me for safekeeping? I'm a trustable sort. :) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 11	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:38:00 - [18] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: So why not turn it into PLEX and give it to me for safekeeping? I'm a trustable sort. :) -Liang PLEX would involve me paying money (as opposed to just letting someone hold it). Why would I pay $15 when 480M is so easy to earn :)
Tarsus Zateki GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 735	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:06:00 - [19] - Quote You can always petition the GMs and ask them. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Adalun Dey Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:29:00 - [20] - Quote Collateral means you are paying for the eventuality that the other guy's investment might get lost. Essentially it would be against the rules the moment you lose your collateral. I also don't think this is a can of worms CCP should open. It's easy to imagine the amount of complaints that would arise from something like this when people start scamming others out of their RL money especially when it's sanctioned by CCP. " Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "
Terminal Insanity The Filthy Ones 653	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:32:00 - [21] - Quote Plex are technically worth 15 dollars each, and chribba would gladly hold onto them "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Mr Bushar Myron Gainez 12	Posted - 2012.07.18 17:28:00 - [22] - Quote Thank you again for all of your help :) I will not involve any real money with any of my activities (including collaterals) Fortunately, I have managed to find a few investors who were still willing to trust me
Evelyn Meiyi Meiyi Family Holdings 14	Posted - 2012.07.18 17:35:00 - [23] - Quote Mr Bushar wrote: Would I be paying for a service, if I allow someone to hold real money, and then I receive the full amount back? Essentially paying $0? (technically not counting time-value of money, if you wanna go that far) Whether or not omeone makes a profit, you are still conducting a real-money trade. Trying to find away around the rules just makes things worse.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 2270	Posted - 2012.07.18 17:44:00 - [24] - Quote Not saying you are trying to do this, but... "No really, this is not RMT. It's simply collatoral on a loan. HONEST!" Can of worms best not opened. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Tarsus Zateki GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 755	Posted - 2012.07.18 17:47:00 - [25] - Quote Mr Bushar wrote: Thank you again for all of your help :) I will not involve any real money with any of my activities (including collaterals) Fortunately, I have managed to find a few investors who were still willing to trust me Again you can petition the GMs and ask them. That's what they're there for. Anytime you feel there's an uncertainty or ambiguity in the game's rules you can ask the GMs. It even leaves a nice paper trail so your butt is covered. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 825	Posted - 2012.07.18 18:20:00 - [26] - Quote Mr Bushar wrote: Micheal Dietrich wrote: Just buy a plex and turn it into isk and then you're legal in the sense. They have a section in the EULA about exchanging services in game for real world currency and vice versa. Would I be paying for a service, if I allow someone to hold real money, and then I receive the full amount back? Essentially paying $0? (technically not counting time-value of money, if you wanna go that far) The issue is this can be used to exchange real money for isk. "Oops, the investment failed! The ISK you gave me somehow all got wasted! You get my real money held in escrow." http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/

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