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Zeet A'Dron
New Artisian and Mercenary Association
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:25:00 -
[1]
I'm one of those weird people that likes to mine. Something about playing with pretend widgets balances me mentally after a day of craziness. There are a lot of reasons to like eve, but I started because the industry stuff showed promise. I'm the kinda guy that picked up UO , walked out into the woods and cut down my own bows, gutted my own chicken for feathers and assembled the first step to my financial victory in the backwoods of Yew.
I'd like to thank CCP for recent changes to mission loot to give the miner a step up but really your track record on doing anything for this 'sphere' in Eve is deplorable. Don't get me wrong, I love you but i give you a big WTF when it comes to mining.
Lets review:
Nothing really done to sort out macro miners so the real ones get the shaft since 2004 for me.
The actual process of mining has not changed. None of the nuiances differ. I mean not a single new ore type, no attempts to tweak time spent vs rewards reaped for this subgroup. If you played EQ2 crafting you could come up with all kinds of ideas. Just interchange the fantasy graphics and replace the word "progress" with "ore extraction rate" and durability with "chance my mining laser array is going to blow up" and you've made a new mini game.
In fact it could be argued the average miner was put to further disadvantage with Dominion because now they have to scan down their grav sites in 00. Is this a big deal? Not for most 00 miners. Of course we mine in groups a lot in 00 but its still the principal of the matter.
Every other major system in Eve has either been appended after mining or has otherwise seen at least some overhaul since except for tradegoods.....oh wait.
I think you should consider adding on to the existing mining paradigm. I suggest the changes would allow the existing system to stay in place while adding new bonus and benefits through some type of new interactive mining process (again, akin to Eq2).
We did get the orca and leadership stuff which is indeed a leg up. But if you follow the current way ore enters into the game world it comes from two sources:
macro miners and the guy who gets screwed over because of crappy mineral prices.
Now, I could stop mining and go do PI --- or maybe even play another game, but if there was any indication from CCP in the next few months that this would be fixed you'd be pushing 60-70k pcu np.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 21/06/2010 12:29:25 Be careful what you wish for.
Before you know it CCP introduces a new mining system that is a 'framework' and will be (lol) expanded in later iterations.
I think mining needs a total revamp, something like where you need to fly through large asteroid belt (nothing comparable to current belts, and they would need to fix the crappy bumping radius of most roids), and scan for useful asteroids, which could just be survey scanner, and then when you find a potential interesting asteroid you do a more precise scan and specificly target ore deposits of the rock.
Ah well just fantasizing a bit.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:29:00 -
[3]
I like the pun though.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Industrial Exploits Massive Intergalactic Love Klub
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:36:00 -
[4]
When i started playing, the best miningship was a battleship followed by the Osprey... There were only regular type ores (no rich plags or massive scords or any of that nonsense.)
Now lets move forward in time!
We now have T2 barges, orca's and rorquals, mining implants and skills and all sorts of new mods...
Saying ccp has done nothing for miners is... well... not true!
Only point u have is the macro/sweatshopmining thing... but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace ________________________________________________
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Zeet A'Dron
New Artisian and Mercenary Association
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 When i started playing, the best miningship was a battleship followed by the Osprey... There were only regular type ores (no rich plags or massive scords or any of that nonsense.)
Now lets move forward in time!
We now have T2 barges, orca's and rorquals, mining implants and skills and all sorts of new mods...
Saying ccp has done nothing for miners is... well... not true!
Only point u have is the macro/sweatshopmining thing... but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace
Point taken but the folks over at CCP are pretty smart folk. I bet if they put more then a couple miner tear's worth of effort towards this we could have something a bit more involved and rewarding then the current icon wars.
I like the idea of world peace though.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace
So you are telling me the American way of giving everyone guns isnt working?
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Fuddan
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Posted - 2010.06.21 12:54:00 -
[7]
The only reason I mine in Eve is because it reminds me of my old job, sorda. Can't seem to stop being a miner
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Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:14:00 -
[8]
nah mining should include scanning for an asteroid moving through a system.
once you find it you can warp to it and catch it. catching it means flying after it, getting damage from debris with shields activated and you need to try and stop it.
once caught ships can land and reprocess the thing. the reprocessing part is very short...
the bigger the asteroid moving through the system, the more ships you need. and some pass through the system faster and some take more time.
I know, bad idea, but srsly there are so many different ways to improve mining with spaceships...just pick one and do it. the current state is pathetic...
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Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: 000Hunter000 but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace
So you are telling me the American way of giving everyone guns isnt working?
Judging from your tears, you probably live in a country where it worked.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari True Citizens
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: 000Hunter000 but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace
So you are telling me the American way of giving everyone guns isnt working?
Hey, hey, HEY! I take offense at that. We do not give people weapons. We sell them, or trade them for combat actions we would like to see happen. Nothing is for free in this world, certainly not American weapon systems. That's just communism, what you're talking about.
Anyway, the only real problem in mining is the macro problem, all this talk of CCP doing nothing for miners just isn't true. Quite frankly, I don't like the suggestion of making it more interesting, I mine to relax and zone out as much as that is possible in EVE when you aren't docked. I don't need a whole lot of bells and whistles, I certainly don't need things needlessly complicated with busy work so the ADD crowed can keep their attention focused for more than a minute. Cash Rules Everything Around ME |
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Rekindle
Militant Mermen LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: 000Hunter000 but finding an answer for that seems to be as illusive as finding a solution for world peace
So you are telling me the American way of giving everyone guns isnt working?
Hey, hey, HEY! I take offense at that. We do not give people weapons. We sell them, or trade them for combat actions we would like to see happen. Nothing is for free in this world, certainly not American weapon systems. That's just communism, what you're talking about.
Anyway, the only real problem in mining is the macro problem, all this talk of CCP doing nothing for miners just isn't true. Quite frankly, I don't like the suggestion of making it more interesting, I mine to relax and zone out as much as that is possible in EVE when you aren't docked. I don't need a whole lot of bells and whistles, I certainly don't need things needlessly complicated with busy work so the ADD crowed can keep their attention focused for more than a minute.
which is precisely why they need to add on to the existing system rather than make it totally new. That way you can have your afk mining while the people who would sit at the computer can do so without passing out on their keyboard. -------------------------------------------
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zeet A'Dron The actual process of mining has not changed. None of the nuiances differ. I mean not a single new ore type, no attempts to tweak time spent vs rewards reaped for this subgroup.
[...]
In fact it could be argued the average miner was put to further disadvantage with Dominion because now they have to scan down their grav sites in 00.
[...]
I think you should consider adding on to the existing mining paradigm. I suggest the changes would allow the existing system to stay in place while adding new bonus and benefits through some type of new interactive mining process.
[...]
We did get the orca and leadership stuff which is indeed a leg up.
So, let me get this straight: you beg CCP to add new mechanics to mining, and in the same post you complain about two relatively new mechanics CCP added to mining? Yeah, right.
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Clocky
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:40:00 -
[13]
We need a system that is almost impossible to macro mine. Moving belts would be a start. Just my 2 cents/isk
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Zeet A'Dron
New Artisian and Mercenary Association
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: Zeet A'Dron The actual process of mining has not changed. None of the nuiances differ. I mean not a single new ore type, no attempts to tweak time spent vs rewards reaped for this subgroup.
[...]
In fact it could be argued the average miner was put to further disadvantage with Dominion because now they have to scan down their grav sites in 00.
[...]
I think you should consider adding on to the existing mining paradigm. I suggest the changes would allow the existing system to stay in place while adding new bonus and benefits through some type of new interactive mining process.
[...]
We did get the orca and leadership stuff which is indeed a leg up.
So, let me get this straight: you beg CCP to add new mechanics to mining, and in the same post you complain about two relatively new mechanics CCP added to mining? Yeah, right.
Two possiblities come to mind:
Either you work for a government civil service or you honestly classify the Dominion changes as suitable mining enhancements when compared to the whole...... Or perhaps you are looking for a reason to critque my 'begging'. |
Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.21 14:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
That's just communism, what you're talking about
I assume you mean that is bad?
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:05:00 -
[16]
I think that mining is good as it is, but macros ruin the income of miners.
I mean, if you mine you do it because it's relaxing. And it's fine to surf the internet, or just watch the roids, the nebula and the planet in the background, or checking the market, or just chill out with friends for an hour. But no human (except nerdy people) will mine for hours alone.
A change the mining system should allow relax as the current one, and a reward scalable with the time and effort you put in it. I remember a proposal about using resource maps like the ones we have in PI, and the player having to choose the point where to mine. In my opinion having mining mechanics like PI would solve the problems (heatmaps, yield function of commitment and skills).
But consider that making macroning impossible could severely mess the market up, thing I am completely fine with.
TL;DR: A quick and effective way of fixing mining could be overhauling it importing PI-like mechanics.
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Cathleia
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:12:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cathleia on 21/06/2010 15:12:36
Originally by: Camios But no human (except nerdy people) will mine for hours alone.
What if you have a dualscreen setup and enjoy emus/movies/tv shows/whatever on the other screen for hours on end? :p
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Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:35:00 -
[18]
"How much longer will miners get the shaft?"
\o/
...and yes, I am bored right now.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.06.21 16:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/06/2010 16:17:29 I know a lot of people like to zone out while mining, but honestly that may have to go if we are ever going to see an end to massive macro mining gangs.
The following should be considered for a mining revamp.
1: All belts should have to be scanned out. 2: Asteroids should not be easily identifiable on the overview. They should have to be survey scanned to determine their exact type or visually identifiable as to what general type they are. 3: Asteroid belts should drift at a slow but contant speed (some faster than others), perhaps orbiting around a central large asteroid. Ships should have to follow/change position to stay within mining range. The enhanced range of tractor beams becomes more important on certain vessels. 4: Mining lasers with the highest yield should have the shortest range. 5: Important: Collision with an asteroid should cause serious damage to a ship, depending on the size of the asteroid and the ship. Ship destruction should be a distint possibility if the pilot is not paying enough attention to keep his ship out of the path of slowly drifting asteriods. 6: Drifting/orbiting asteroids should occasionally collide, changing their path. Perhaps even flying away from the belt and dissappearing when they finally get off grid.
These steps should complicate matters for macro miners as well as make mining a moderately challenging mini-game. (Yes, there is a resemblance to the classic "Asteroids" game.) However, it would not be a recommended occupation for the "watch vid's on the second monitor" crowd.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.21 16:30:00 -
[20]
The good news is that fear of the upcoming "Hulkageddon III" looks like it might have scared enough "newbie miners" out of their routine so that lowend prices are actually picking up now. Goes to show, make mining more dangerous, and it suddenly becomes more profitable
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Aurum Bellator
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.21 16:44:00 -
[21]
I disagree with the statement that CCP has not 'done anything' for mining. However, I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done to: (a) fix the macromining plague (which would then fix the problem of overabundance of minerals); and (b) make it even slightly more interesting/interactive to do.
IMHO the mining 'system' needs a complete overhaul. I don't have the answer, but it ought to be an expansion in and of itself, and whatever they replace it with ought to be, at the very minimum, damn near impossible to macro. Yes, it is possible to design a mining system that doesn't just involve Lock, Activate Laser, Read Book.
AUB
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Karosaki
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.06.21 16:55:00 -
[22]
Sadly fighting macro miners and other bots is a very difficult problem, and if it was possible to reliably distinguish between the bots and people without seriously ****ing off the players CCP would have done it already.
As for mining profession getting shafted, I really don't understand what you mean. If you enjoy mining why not continue doing it? It's not like you are actually loosing isk while doing so. I don't feel that mining is being neglected by CCP. I mean recently you got wormhole mining and null sec anomalies. Mining on planets is completely new minigame thats just a few weeks old.
If you don't like the income you receive while mining thats a different story. If CCP adds something the increase yields then everyone will be doing it and the mineral prices will just drop even more.
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Boris Demontford
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Karosaki Sadly fighting macro miners and other bots is a very difficult problem, and if it was possible to reliably distinguish between the bots and people without seriously ****ing off the players CCP would have done it already.
^^This.
If mining becomes more profitable then macro-dweebs are provided more incentive to increase capacity, ad-infinitum.
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Albetta
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:25:00 -
[24]
Mining needs a serious boost. like seriously.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie I like the pun though.
^this
-------------------------------------- If you don't like my posts, then why waste your time commenting in them? -------------------------------------- |
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2010.06.21 18:01:00 -
[26]
I like how people who have no experience automating tasks with macro scripting software come up with ideas to 'make it harder' for the macro guys. The only problem is that the changes only make it harder for a very short period of time, and once the macros are re-written everything is back to where it was before. So the only real way to thwart the macros is to completely change the whole system every couple weeks, and I seriously doubt that is going to happen. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Entrepaz
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Posted - 2010.06.21 18:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/06/2010 16:17:29 I know a lot of people like to zone out while mining, but honestly that may have to go if we are ever going to see an end to massive macro mining gangs.
The following should be considered for a mining revamp.
1: All belts should have to be scanned out. 2: Asteroids should not be easily identifiable on the overview. They should have to be survey scanned to determine their exact type or visually identifiable as to what general type they are. 3: Asteroid belts should drift at a slow but contant speed (some faster than others), perhaps orbiting around a central large asteroid. Ships should have to follow/change position to stay within mining range. The enhanced range of tractor beams becomes more important on certain vessels. 4: Mining lasers with the highest yield should have the shortest range. 5: Important: Collision with an asteroid should cause serious damage to a ship, depending on the size of the asteroid and the ship. Ship destruction should be a distint possibility if the pilot is not paying enough attention to keep his ship out of the path of slowly drifting asteriods. 6: Drifting/orbiting asteroids should occasionally collide, changing their path. Perhaps even flying away from the belt and dissappearing when they finally get off grid.
These steps should complicate matters for macro miners as well as make mining a moderately challenging mini-game. (Yes, there is a resemblance to the classic "Asteroids" game.) However, it would not be a recommended occupation for the "watch vid's on the second monitor" crowd.
THIS. Go post in CSM!!!
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.21 18:13:00 -
[28]
Unless they are working on something right now, you will probably have to wait a minimum of one year for anything being done directly with mining. More likely 2-5 years. It's been almost 2 years since this thread, which pretty much is why I have given up on it. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
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Demolishar
United Aggression Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.06.21 18:13:00 -
[29]
If miners didn't want to be screwed they should have picked a better profession.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.06.21 18:14:00 -
[30]
CCP listened to our prior suggestions that miners needed a mini-game while mining to keep them engaged. Unfortunately, the end result was PI and everyone died a little inside.
But I, too, enjoyed the pun.
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