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Obyrith
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:30:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Obyrith on 24/06/2010 20:31:31
 Originally by: Felix Esperium
Also, please show how it will "indisputably" improve the game. Indisputably is a pretty big word to use on an opinion.
The best argument for learning skills was that they demonstrate the importance of patience to new players early on by forcing them to choose between instant gratification v.s. long term invesment. Trouble is, the skill system already does this by requiring five times as much time to train each level of a skill as the last - you either train something to level V for a bonus that doesn't mean that much or you train something else to III in 1/25 the time for an equivalent bonus. It's just not something longtime players recognise because it's so fundamental to the system.
Learning skills are a redundant mechanic that serve only to hammer that point in during the first months of play. They also serve to keep newbs stuck in a couple of different ships at exactly the time when they should be experimenting with different roles, cross-training to another race's frigs, etc.
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RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:40:00 -
[122]
I hope we can buy skill points! I hate those pesky Charisma skills!
also give: timer for time left of "you are going too fast".
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:48:00 -
[123]
ok guys how about thhis?
One year subbed accoutn stops skilling for 4 months for what ever reason, yet still remains active ( one year sub ), this might allow a back date of untrained skill time on a active accounts, to make up for the 4 months of no training.
then again. it might be cc removing learnign skills and adding +10 while reimbursing players with the sp they "lost"
in some cases over 5m sp to be spread out as one sees fit. in others mere few hundred thousand sp to spread out.
coz i dont think it will be a cash in a ingameplex for x amount of skill points.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:53:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Ludacrys
Nobody is forcing you to train them
OR ARE THEY?
+
LDSkill+hireLDS |
Vyusoath Orillian
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:55:00 -
[125]
you can already buy sp, i don't know what peoplea re talking about you can buy sp for isk you can buy isk for cash. did you people not no this ?
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:56:00 -
[126]
The learning skills aren't a choice, they're mandatory for anyone that plans on playing for more than a few weeks. To make matters worse, the accelerated training bonus means you would have to be brain dead stupid not to train as many learning skills as possible with the bonus training time.
When folks tell newbies to spend the first few weeks or first month of game time training the learning skills while puttering around in the newbie frigates, it's for a good reason.
For example:
Here are the training times for a PvP Rifter. Using EveMon/EFT, taking into account accelerated training, relevant support skills and gunnery skills to three, it takes:
* 27d 21h 16m with optimized attributes
* 19d 13h 32m with optimized attributes and 3 days of learning skills (savings of 8d 7h 34m over optimized attributes)
Three days of learning skills can save you eight days during your first month of play.
The learning skills are *not* optional and they make for a spectacularly bad First Impression of Eve.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Ivas Tiffy
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Posted - 2010.06.24 20:57:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Vyusoath Orillian
you can already buy sp, i don't know what peoplea re talking about you can buy sp for isk you can buy isk for cash. did you people not no this ?
buying sp already aye? hmm not really as you dont get to CHOOSE what skills you want/desire... youonly get to buy a poor sods toon.
Go ahead and clap. Mediocrity deserves applause. Why don't we go find Pandemic Legion and clap around them! |
Douglass Bryant
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Posted - 2010.06.24 21:04:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
I will whine for at least as long as it took to train the skills I am getting screwed on.
Also, please show how it will "indisputably" improve the game. Indisputably is a pretty big word to use on an opinion.
I really fail to see how you could possibly get screwed if this was handled correctly. The time you spend training the learning skills up would end up being free skill points that you could redistribute to new skills, so there's no loss in the total number of skillpoints you have to date. Furthermore, you've already gained the advantage of training faster than players with lesser trained learning skills, so you're ahead of the curve when the playing field is leveled.
Learning skills are a needless speedbump and even CCP has admitted they were a mistake.
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.06.24 21:04:00 -
[129]
Originally by: stoicfaux
The learning skills are *not* optional and they make for a spectacularly bad First Impression of Eve.
How are they not optional? When you start a new character is there a popup that says you must train these skills or your account will be closed? No one has a gun to anyone's head. Just because you can train for a certain ship faster or whatever does not make them mandatory in any way. Did you factor in potential implants into your equation? Are those mandatory as well?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.24 21:09:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
How are they not optional?
Everyone trains them. Yes, they're optional in the sense of "you can choose not to train them", but in practice, that's such a thoroughly stupid thing to do that the choice really isn't there.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.06.24 21:28:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
How are they not optional? When you start a new character is there a popup that says you must train these skills or your account will be closed? No one has a gun to anyone's head. Just because you can train for a certain ship faster or whatever does not make them mandatory in any way. Did you factor in potential implants into your equation? Are those mandatory as well?
Gee, remaps are optional. Heck, training any skill at all is optional too, as is logging in. I guess you're part of the "let's not rush into things" crowd. 
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Dagny Bronstein
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Posted - 2010.06.24 21:33:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Dagny Bronstein on 24/06/2010 21:35:08
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Felix Esperium
How are they not optional?
Everyone trains them. Yes, they're optional in the sense of "you can choose not to train them", but in practice, that's such a thoroughly stupid thing to do that the choice really isn't there.
however, there is the (realistic) choice between 4/4, 5/4 and 5/5 which actually adds a layer of depth to your skill-planning - people playing with a long time horizon in mind (because they know they will stick with EVE for a few years) can choose other options as people who want the skills to fly some shiny ship right now. If you intend to spend a lot of time in 0.0, you might want to choose a different option than if you tend to stay in your +5 high-sec clone.
Always thought this was a pretty neat feature of EVE - you actually have to make decisions that will hurt one way or another and mindless min-maxing does not work as such.
(as you might guess, I am not a big fan of neural remaps, either)
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Miilla
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Posted - 2010.06.24 22:05:00 -
[133]
I hope I can buy skill points with PLEXs I have 50 of them.
Bwaahahahhah
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Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
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Posted - 2010.06.24 22:11:00 -
[134]
CCP Shadow has already stated that there are no plans to sell SP
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.06.24 22:32:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Felix Esperium on 24/06/2010 22:33:02
Originally by: stoicfaux
Gee, remaps are optional. Heck, training any skill at all is optional too, as is logging in. I guess you're part of the "let's not rush into things" crowd.
Correct, all those things are optional. Glad we have cleared up that training anything (learning skills included) is completely optional. I haven't used a remap yet on my Achura character btw.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
Wacom Research
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:25:00 -
[136]
I neither want nor expect anything. Please do not apply to any of my paying accounts (assuming this is real and not a troll). |
Lusty Wench
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:30:00 -
[137]
I'm anticipating that you will be able to apply an item similar to a PLEX, that will double your training speed. It will be purchasable with RL currency from CCP, and tradeable on the market. Just like PLEX. I'd like to think that said item would be stackable up to five times, for five times the training speed.
That's my wish anyway. |
The Cleansing
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:34:00 -
[138]
Having another way to buy or gain SP besides the currently stupid and limiting method of going afk or putting off for months what you or your corp needs, would encourage me to champion this game above all others. The current system is archaic and slows the pace of the game too much. I would happily pay for SP every month, no problem.
At the worst case, learning skills have got to go, needless, pointless, boring, barrier to entry, waste of time, useless, not fun. See where I'm going here. |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:36:00 -
[139]
Originally by: The Cleansing
At the worst case, learning skills have got to go, needless, pointless, boring, barrier to entry, waste of time, useless, not fun. See where I'm going here.
You know you don't have to train them right? they are optional as we established just a few posts up the page. |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:43:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: The Cleansing
At the worst case, learning skills have got to go, needless, pointless, boring, barrier to entry, waste of time, useless, not fun. See where I'm going here.
You know you don't have to train them right? they are optional as we established just a few posts up the page.
Just like breathing is optional. Although it severely gimps your experience. |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:47:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Just like breathing is optional. Although it severely gimps your experience.
No. breathing is required for life. that is not optional in my book.
Am I missing sarcasm here or something? |
Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:59:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: Blane Xero
Just like breathing is optional. Although it severely gimps your experience.
No. breathing is required for life. that is not optional in my book.
Am I missing sarcasm here or something?
life is optional, thus breathing is it too for beings aware of the meaning of life.
But we are missing the point as everything can be optional. Everyone with over 70 IQ would NOT ignore the learning skills with the current sp system. |
Hugh Munguss
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Posted - 2010.06.25 03:05:00 -
[143]
All you wniehy bctheis hvae mtvieaotd me to mizmxiae my rnaiimeng lnreiang slkils form lveel 4 to leevl 5. Mbaye you slohud do the smae if you dno't ustrednand wrod rtigocneoin!
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The Cleansing
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Posted - 2010.06.25 03:10:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Lusty Wench
I'm anticipating that you will be able to apply an item similar to a PLEX, that will double your training speed. It will be purchasable with RL currency from CCP, and tradeable on the market. Just like PLEX. I'd like to think that said item would be stackable up to five times, for five times the training speed.
That's my wish anyway.
That would be freaking awesome. Best idea I have ever heard on this topic. |
Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.06.25 03:32:00 -
[145]
For some reason it makes my teeth hurt when I see this much tin foil in one place.
Weird, but true :P
Mr Epeen  |
Empress Aurora
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:14:00 -
[146]
http://i50.tinypic.com/2z9dsur.jpg
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:20:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: Blane Xero
Just like breathing is optional. Although it severely gimps your experience.
No. breathing is required for life. that is not optional in my book.
Am I missing sarcasm here or something?
You can choose not to breath in the same aspect as you can choose not to train learning skills.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:26:00 -
[148]
But eventually you'll black out and your subconsciousness will take over  I don't see how real life analogies work in a simulation like this.
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Jeremiah Tameri
Azon Consortium
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:27:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Jeremiah Tameri on 26/06/2010 00:26:54
Originally by: Empress Aurora
http://i50.tinypic.com/2z9dsur.jpg
What is this I don't even...
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
SUECHTLER Inc.
THE-FEDERATION
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:37:00 -
[150]
Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 26/06/2010 00:45:00
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Jurai Talar
What if it's a system where you train a skill to level x and then you can "pull out" that skill from your brain, package it up and sell it on the market as a "trained lvl x skill."
Pulling out never works.
Ohhhh. Blaine you naughty naughty boy.
(Love it matey  )
Also this:
Originally by: Jeremiah Tameri
Edited by: Jeremiah Tameri on 26/06/2010 00:26:54
Originally by: Empress Aurora
http://i50.tinypic.com/2z9dsur.jpg
What is this I don't even...
Looks like one of those test "devices" some of you may end up wanting but usually find lacking...
Like the crystal ball...
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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