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Lillith Blackheart
NeuroGEN
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:03:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Lillith Blackheart on 03/07/2010 18:06:23 Bravo, pilots, you have successfully -- and likely unintentionally -- shown the Truth and validity to my words.
Well done.
Also, on an entirely different note: Welcome back to the skies, Mebrithiel. It is good to see you again. Should I be led to assume the Raiders will once again rise? Or are you simply moonlighting for a time, old friend?
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Katrina Bekers
Gallente Mia Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:18:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nola Doyle You enter a warzone, grease the proverbial wheels of the enemy governments, and are surprised when you're shot. If you're expecting sympathy and diplomatic tolerance from foot soldiers, unfortunately none of us can assist you.
The point of this discussion is not what I expect, but what you expect.
I reiterate my comment, so diligently avoided by Nation fans.
It's your preaching, it's your desire to show us "the Truth".
I don't need to convert anyone to my cause. My one is my own. My truth is not even capitalized, mind you.
But here Nation supporters are blabbering about their "Truth". What do they want to accomplish? What kind of feedback they are looking for? Being accepted? Understood? Sympathized? Scorned? Derided? Taken seriously? Joined in their quest for a better life? Blasted again out of the skies like it was done one century ago? Tell me, Nola: what exactly do you want?
If you say it's ok for your implanted minions to attack any ship, anywhere, regardless of diplomatic standings, on the ground that all know space is your personal playground warzone against the oh-so-evil-Empires-and-everyone-else-while-we're-at-it, then don't whine that nobody is educated enough to see your great vision!
Blaming the target for being the target while you fire on it, will win no popularity contest. If you look for tolerance and openmindedness and sympathy, you should start by keeping your followers' lashes under tighter scrutiny, and their cannons on stand-by. THEN I might consider not raining Spikes on your Nightmares...
___
P.S.: the tools I employ with regard to greasing bureacracies work equally well for Empires and for every other faction, criminal or not, self-righteous or not, traditionally corrupt or supposedly not. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Nation agents are immune to some good old friend-of-a-friend connection or ISK-backed charisma. --- Kat |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Moira. Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:19:00 -
[93]
The truth is threatening planetary extinction with the Kyonoke virus.
Strength in unity! ------------ Luminaire General Seriphyn Inhonores [TAGMA] Federal Defence Union |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:20:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart Bravo, pilots, you have successfully -- and likely unintentionally -- shown the Truth and validity to my words.
Except we didn't. Your words were a critique of the Jovians and their tendency to manipulate, spiced with some vacuous tedium about the wonderful vision of the future the Nation allegedly holds, conveniently ignoring the many atrocities they've committed by pretending that atrocious behaviour by the Empires somehow justifies it.
If the Sansha were truly moral, they would never have to defend their actions. -----
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James Vayne
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:25:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
If the Sansha were truly moral, they would never have to defend their actions.
And the same can be said of your Empires who commit far worse atrocities on a daily basis.
Let us ask the Minmatar if they would prefer continued slavery under the Amarr or rise up with Nation and be free! We would help them restore their republic to greatness!
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:25:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane So literally your defence to being unable to defend your ideologies ...
Why would we need to defend anything against a gutless windbag incapable of action in space? You don't stand for anything LeHane. You don't do anything and you don't mean anything. I'm not entirely sure why you why you think we'd need to spare you anything but gentle mockery.
Join the Revolution!
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:48:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Why would we need to defend anything against a...
Because standing up for your arguments means you don't get to choose who criticises them. If you're unwilling to defend your arguments against anyone who doesn't meet your preconceived notions of worthiness then you're just as bad as the Amarrians and the Sansha. I've never been afraid to defend the Federation against the State, the Empire, the Nation, the Cartel - even the Republic, when they politely question aspects of their allies' society. I've tried my hardest never to balk at defending my viewpoints simply because I don't like the one questioning them - I don't pretend to having succeeded in this regard, but then again, I'm only human, and I'm honest about that.
I'll never have the luxury of being able to pick and choose who my critics are, Constantine, and neither will you.
If you aren't willing or able to defend your views against the least of your critics, then tell me - what use are they?
Originally by: Jade Constantine gutless windbag incapable of action in space?
I'll let you hold onto that comfortable illusion if you so desire. If you ever wish to test that theory, you're welcome to come and try. I won't invite you to, because I don't feel the imperative to waste time or money on proving something to you - because I honestly, genuinely don't need to prove this. I fly ships, in space. Sometimes I will blow up other ships belonging to other people, for a number of reasons. I am capable of achieving things in space. I am capable of defending my viewpoints, on the IGS, and in space. I defend the Gallente Federation, in space. I fight the Sansha, in space. I fight the Serpentis, in space. There are a lot of things that I do, in space.
Your statement, being an absolute, is so vacuous that I could hoof it out to the temporary autonomous zone and fly back and forth in front of your station and prove you wrong - but of course, being the sort of person who desires utterly peaceful enlightened self-interest, you'd no doubt demand that I actually fight and kill to prove my worthiness. Which is OK. I've got a killboard, and sometimes kills appear on it. Not all that many but we're a small corporation and we get a lot done for only having five pilots.
Originally by: Jade Constantine You don't stand for anything LeHane. You don't do anything and you don't mean anything.
Correction: I don't stand for anything that you're willing to award validity to. I don't do anything that you will award validity to. I don't mean anything that you will award validity to.
Your opinion of my validity does not detract from the satisfaction I feel when I achieve a success, or add to the sting I feel when I fail. My self-image of who and what I am is solid enough that a few baseless allegations from you won't crack it.
Originally by: Jade Constantine I'm not entirely sure why you why you think we'd need to spare you anything but gentle mockery.
It certainly would fit with the public image you've managed to paint of yourself.
I'm ready and able to defend my views in space. If Star Fraction ever feels the need to fight a war with odds 80-to-1 in their favour, you probably know where I spend most of my time, and if you don't, locator agents are available in most stations for a very reasonable price. -----
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 19:08:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane My self-image of who and what I am is solid enough that a few baseless allegations from you won't crack it.
I think you are doing an excellent job of painting yourself into meaningless obscurity right here yourself. Please continue posting essay-length screeds of ranting about causes you care nothing about though, its always convincing when that happens.
Join the Revolution!
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 19:20:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jade Constantine posting essay-length screeds of ranting
[CARRIER ERROR: NO TEXT FOUND]
[AUDIO FILE ATTACHED] -----
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Eno Lacigol
Amarr Red Chimp Corporation
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Posted - 2010.07.03 21:14:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Jade Constantine posting essay-length screeds of ranting
[CARRIER ERROR: NO TEXT FOUND]
[AUDIO FILE ATTACHED]
The Hypocritical statement of jade complying about wall of text speeches is so strong it almost manifests as a kind of hand, and I have the desire to rest my face upon it.
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Fridarey
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 21:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Eno Lacigol The Hypocritical statement
That word doesn't mean what you think it means...
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Eno Lacigol
Amarr Red Chimp Corporation
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Posted - 2010.07.03 21:50:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Fridarey
Originally by: Eno Lacigol The Hypocritical statement
That word doesn't mean what you think it means...
That doesn't surprise me.
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Fridarey
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 22:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Eno Lacigol Jade's statement condemns over long posts while jade herself is infamous for her text bombs in threads.
She's mocking him not condemning him. But its certainly true that the guy has gone off the deep on this thread, feel free to join him if you want though
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 22:22:00 -
[104]
"Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie."
If you cannot see why Jade mocking someone for writing long posts is hypocritical, there's a Jin-Mei phrase I believe adequately sums it up - 五十步笑一百步. -----
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Fridarey
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 22:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane "Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie."
I can't see why anybody laughing at an idiot like you for making pointless long rants is hypocritical. You sound like raging teen with a bad case of anxiety angst. Chalk up another for our long list of bitter stalkers with no guts in space.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 22:43:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 03/07/2010 22:43:45
Originally by: Fridarey I can't see why anybody laughing at an idiot like you for making pointless long rants is hypocritical. You sound like raging teen with a bad case of anxiety angst. Chalk up another for our long list of bitter stalkers with no guts in space.
You are merely perpetuating a trend that's pervaded this thread, and indeed, almost every thread in which Jade Constantine or The Cosmopolite debase the concept of "debate" by simply stating that your enemy's "rants" are "pointless", accusing them of feeling emotions you clearly have no way of discerning whether or not they feel, excessively quibbling over technicalities, making allegations of "stalking", making easily falsifiable assertions about what someone does "in space" and not actually replying to questions with substantiative answers.
You can't say "our actions are not hypocritical because the subject lacks virtue himself!". That is, in fact, also hypocritical.
Congratulations, you're a stereotype.
Oh, and apparently, since I need to spell it out for you, it's hypocritical for Jade or Cosmo to mock someone for writing overly long rants because they often write long rants themselves. More often by far, in fact, than I do. -----
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Fridarey
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.03 22:52:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane by simply stating that your enemy's "rants" are "pointless"
So what exactly was the point of your ranting? Because from the external perspective it just looked like an excess of butthurt and vapers coughed up by sulky schoolboy. Nothing you said had any value of any kind. You started in this thread claiming to be the savour of the star cluster who was fighting the sansha when nobody else was. The Cosmopolite utterly humiliated you with the facts and Jade mocked you mercilessly. You then wrote walls of bitter text and recorded yourself crying in voice coms for some bizarre purpose.
To be honest, I'm not sure you are right in the head. But then most nationalists aren't
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 23:05:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 03/07/2010 23:07:56
Originally by: Fridarey So what exactly was the point of your ranting?
Firstly, you apparently missed the point of putting "rant" and "pointless" in quotation marks. You haven't established the applicability of either of these words to what I've written. The point of my questioning was initially to both highlight perceived moral dissonance and opportunism on the part of Star Fraction and to call them to account for it. Their attempts at justification included historical actions which brought other aspects of moral dissonance to light, which I further questioned. When Star Fraction's "defence" devolved into a constant string of personal attacks and baseless allegations, and it became clear that they had neither the ability nor the desire to defend the highlighted actions (and thus that attempting to get them to do so would be futile), my questioning and rhetoric shifted to a critique of the way in which this behaviour is depressingly typical of most exchanges with Star Fraction pilots - personal attacks in lieu of substantiative justification or evidence and a selection of predictable buzzwords - "stalker", "charlatan" and "bitter" being the foremost examples - in lieu of poise or dignity.
Star Fraction has what I would diplomatically describe as a low tone of debate. They show no respect, restraint or dignity towards people who question their views, and then accuse those with whom they disagree of being unreasonable, disrespectful and dismissive of their viewpoints - when the reason for such treatment...
Originally by: Fridarey Because from the external perspective it just looked like an excess of butthurt and vapers coughed up by sulky schoolboy. Nothing you said had any value of any kind. You started in this thread claiming to be the savour of the star cluster who was fighting the sansha when nobody else was. The Cosmopolite utterly humiliated you with the facts and Jade mocked you mercilessly. You then wrote walls of bitter text and recorded yourself crying in voice coms for some bizarre purpose.
... is clearly evidenced by exactly this brand of discourse.
Originally by: Fridarey To be honest, I'm not sure you are right in the head. But then most nationalists aren't
It's a common and throughly discredited tactic, in a debate in which one has no legitimate position, to accuse one's opponent of being mentally challenged, even when one has no clear evidence to support it.
But only a mental defective wouldn't know that, right? -----
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Sierra'Kor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 23:18:00 -
[109]
This is rather amusing to watch. The insignificant pawns whine, complain and fail against each other when they supposedly have a common enemy. This, sadly, is the the truth of the empires as a whole and those who cling to them; there is such a greater threat in the form of discord and negligence yet all they seem to be able to do is squabble amongst themselves.
Continue please, if you are examples of what opposes the unity we offer then perhaps more people will realize their folly for placing their trust in you.
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Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Fates Assembly The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.07.04 00:20:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Eno Lacigol The Hypocritical statement of jade complying about wall of text speeches is so strong it almost manifests as a kind of hand, and I have the desire to rest my face upon it.
I love ya babe and I know that anytime anyone ever calls Ixiris on his crap he has an emo-rage tantrum of endless hate; to the end of space-time; because maybe his daddy didnĘt love him enough or something, but...
Hypocrisy would only be valid here if Jade's words were as garbage as Ixiris.
Ixiris does not create as Lillith, Aria, Jade and all the opther contributing voices of our capsuleer era have done. Ixiris will never understand that the effort to create something important generally requires expression(such as this very thread's starter post). Perhaps words scare him. Perhaps the cognitive skill required to follow an essay composition built on arguments of concept wax too cerebral for him.
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www.eve-chatsubo.com
A long term Role-Play, Fiction and EVE storyline community. |
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.04 00:31:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 04/07/2010 00:35:18
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Hypocrisy would only be valid here if Jade's words were as garbage as Ixiris.
Ixiris does not create as Lillith, Aria, Jade and all the opther contributing voices of our capsuleer era have done. Ixiris will never understand that the effort to create something important generally requires expression(such as this very thread's starter post). Perhaps words scare him. Perhaps the cognitive skill required to follow an essay composition built on arguments of concept wax too cerebral for him.
Who's Ixiris?
It's funny that you're not even in Star Fraction and yet you've resorted to the vacuous replacement of actual argument with baseless allegations and childish invective. If you want your arguments to be any less worthless than Jade's, prove your points without resorting to ad hominem and back up your allegations with actual evidence. Stop hiding behind the mistaken assumption that throwing enough abuse at someone you dislike will make them back off, especially if said abuse has no basis in fact. -----
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Eno Lacigol
Amarr Red Chimp Corporation
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Posted - 2010.07.04 00:35:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Originally by: Eno Lacigol The Hypocritical statement of jade complying about wall of text speeches is so strong it almost manifests as a kind of hand, and I have the desire to rest my face upon it.
I love ya babe and I know that anytime anyone ever calls Ixiris on his crap he has an emo-rage tantrum of endless hate; to the end of space-time; because maybe his daddy didnĘt love him enough or something, but...
Hypocrisy would only be valid here if Jade's words were as garbage as Ixiris.
Ixiris does not create as Lillith, Aria, Jade and all the opther contributing voices of our capsuleer era have done. Ixiris will never understand that the effort to create something important generally requires expression(such as this very thread's starter post). Perhaps words scare him. Perhaps the cognitive skill required to follow an essay composition built on arguments of concept wax too cerebral for him.
Who is Ixiris.
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Arvo Katsuya
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.07.04 00:43:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
It's funny that you're not even in Star Fraction and yet you've resorted to the vacuous replacement of actual argument with baseless allegations and childish invective.
His comments above, are called 'objective opinion', bud. Noticed the guy put together three entities that don't care for each other, but have contributed something other than insults.
But what do I care? All ya are gonna do is keep rolling on and insisting ya got the last say in the argument.
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Revan Neferis
The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.07.04 00:44:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane to accuse one's opponent of being mentally challenged, even when one has no clear evidence to support it
Originally by: Andreus LeHane [AUDIO FILE ATTACHED]
More evidence than this, impossible. You're definitely mentally challenged or if not, getting there fast. If IGS makes you expose yourself to such lengths of idiocy kid, you should reconsider your mental state for sure.
Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik
Totally pagan, totally beautiful, totally worshipful. This is life
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.04 01:34:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Arvo Katsuya His comments above, are called 'objective opinion'
Oh for the sake of Ida, there is no such thing. Opinions, by definition, cannot be objective - they are subjective viewpoints based upon personal interpretation of facts, subject to perspective, understanding, emotion, fears, desires and personal history. There is no such thing as an objective opinion. There are objective facts, and subjective opinions. Subjective opinions are supported by an argument. Importantly, in this instance, he hasn't provided arguments in defence of his opinions.
Originally by: Arvo Katsuya Noticed the guy put together three entities that don't care for each other, but have contributed something other than insults.
This is also an entirely subjective statement, subject to individual selective interpretation of what is an insult and what is "worthwhile" - extreme emphasis on "selective interpretation". He's resting his subjective interpretation on the support of another subjective interpretation, without providing an objective foundation for either. His argument, to continue the architectural metaphor, is unsound. -----
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IzzyChan
Naqam
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Posted - 2010.07.04 01:37:00 -
[116]
This. What is this. --------------------
Naqam
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Lillith Blackheart
NeuroGEN
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Posted - 2010.07.04 02:47:00 -
[117]
This, my dear IzzyChan, is the Truth. This is one of the many things I spoke of. This is the very entities that claim superiority devolving into spoiled children bickering over who is greater than whom.
This is those very entities that claim us to be monsters, killers, and destroyers showing their true colors, they show that their only strength is destruction, while we continue to strive to create.
The Truth can not be hidden forever.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.07.04 02:58:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 04/07/2010 02:58:10
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart This is those very entities that claim us to be monsters
So by your estimation:
Arguing via forums: Monstrous.
Killing a man's wife and son, reanimating them as a gestalt entity and parading them in front of him: Totally a-OK!
With a moral compass like that I'm surprised you don't end up taking a fifty-jump route between Jita and Sobaseki. -----
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Lillith Blackheart
NeuroGEN
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Posted - 2010.07.04 03:07:00 -
[119]
Mr. Lehane....
As your mental faculties seem to be a tad sub-par based on your inability to discern what I was referring to when I spelled it out clearly, I will try again for you in language you may better comprehend.
Are you prepared?
Good.
See Sansha. See Sansha build. See Sansha unified. See Coalition. See Coalition destroy. See Coalition destroy each other. Destroy, Coalition, destroy!!
That better? Do you fathom now? I should hope that this should be within your realm of ability to grasp.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.07.04 03:28:00 -
[120]
Oh I'm back alright Lilith and I'll do it alone if I can't convince the rebellious rest of what I want. There shouldn't be squabbling between my friends as I want all of them to get along...
Suffice to say, I'm a softy for Sansha and their dreams, so you may see me hanging about. Besides, I've missed Izzy!
Now... where did I leave those new dolls...
(Blog link in Sig) |
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