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Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz Rocket Fuel! Daaaamn! I think this properly explains the current situation. (Score: 9/10 for the Phil Hartman.) Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:11:00 - [32] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HtY58Rn5A0 apparently there are way easier ways to make rocket fuel, so i predict the price in now way being influenced by pi at all. Also looks like a lot more fun.
beautyispain	Posted - 2010.06.29 16:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Jack Icegaard Edited by: Jack Icegaard on 29/06/2010 10:33:10 Originally by: Grozen Rocket fuel is also used in the production of camera drones.So theres your other demand did you really think it would cost only as much as the production value?Most producers won't sell unless they are making least 20% profit. Sorry, I don't think you understand my post. Im calculating the cost increase for producing T2 HAMs if rocket fuel price increases with 15k isk per unit compared to the old NPC price. Today you can buy rocket fuel for 2-3k isk per unit. Before PI, NPC prices for rocket fuel were somewhere around 600 isk/unit IIRC. In short, how much more will it cost to produce a T2 HAMs if rocket fuel prices increases ~26 times from old NPC price. due to the short range of HAMs they have very low amounts of rocket fuel, my assumption applies to the rest of the missiles, e.g. T2 HMs have over 10x the amount of rocket fuel per unit. Current prices make rocket fuel a 50% factor in production costs for HMs
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.06.29 17:25:00 - [34] There you go, Rocket Fuel just officially spiked. Feel free to try unloading my buy order is up at 2150 isk. ----------------------- Join "Signatures" channel - the chatroom for traders
Khun SP Paramite Factories	Posted - 2010.06.29 17:31:00 - [35] T2 HM producer here... Now expect Heavy Fury missiles to cost 600isk/unit from now on. Times of 300ish have come to an end. Thanks for your understanding and happy combats.
Barbicane TGUN Industries	Posted - 2010.06.29 19:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Khun SP T2 HM producer here... Now expect Heavy Fury missiles to cost 600isk/unit from now on. Times of 300ish have come to an end. Thanks for your understanding and happy combats. The problem from the t2 producer's point of view is that competition from LP store faction missiles will become tougher when the price difference between the two decreases. I'm glad I just managed to sell most of my t2 missile bpos, though I'll admit the timing was more due to chance than good business sense ;) Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if rocket fuel sells for below the old NPC price of ~600 isk in 6 months from now.
rootimus maximus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.30 10:38:00 - [37] Edited by: rootimus maximus on 30/06/2010 10:38:53
Tamarana	Posted - 2010.06.30 11:15:00 - [38] My opinion is that people stockpiled in a very unequal way. So too much Robotics, Moon Harvesters, but not enough Enriched Uranium, Silo, and so on. In particular, Moon Harvesters are sold at 8-13 millions where it cost 25 M to build one. I see that someone bought 2.0000 Moon Harvester in Jita (and 1.000s in other regions) in a single day, 20 day before Tyrannis. There is a very large sell order 700+ in Jita at 14 M. This act like a dam to people in need to sell their Harvesters fast and keep the price down, for now. This, probably, is what is happening for other goods.
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Barbicane Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if rocket fuel sells for below the old NPC price of ~600 isk in 6 months from now. I love how people keep making statements like the above one without actually looking at the math of how PI works. Have you actually looked at the work involved in making rocket fuel? No, didn't think so. Perhaps you should join the ebank board, given the inability to actually examine the profit involved if they DID drop to 600/unit. 600/unit would generate a whopping profit of 30 mil/month in 0.0. Who the hell is going to go through the hassle of starting extractors every 24 hours for 30 mil? Macros certainly aren't (even if they make double that), since a mining macro makes that in a day and a ratting macro makes that in 1-2 hours. And that's considered "bad" income. I make that in about 10 minutes in w-space. 600/unit for a P2 would also result in a cost of ~30 mil per control tower before construction parts (so 62/tower), so its unlikely that CCP is going to adjust PI to produce prices like that. The reality is, 600 was the OLD price and is now completely irrelevant to any future discussion.
Barbicane TGUN Industries	Posted - 2010.06.30 15:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran Originally by: Barbicane Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if rocket fuel sells for below the old NPC price of ~600 isk in 6 months from now. ...Who the hell is going to go through the hassle of starting extractors every 24 hours for 30 mil?... Not you apparently, and me neither (since I find PI repetitive and boring), but most people simply won't bother with all those calculations. We've seen it before with invention, and invention has a much higher entry threshold than PI.

Tamarana	Posted - 2010.06.30 16:11:00 - [41] Invention have the added bonus to be a chance game. People like the adrenalin rush when they deliver the invention and look to see if they have succeeded or not. PI is simply repetitive and man power intensive. My suggestion is to move the interface of PI so people can see the space where they are and restart the extractors in the same time.
Droxlyn Caldari	Posted - 2010.06.30 19:18:00 - [42] Originally by: rootimus maximus Edited by: rootimus maximus on 30/06/2010 10:51:09 Originally by: Droxlyn Hmm, I added to the chart the Amarr Large Tower and I got a 377,580,000.00 ISK price at 5 isk each. Or are you talking about a fully decked out tower and modules? I'm just talking about a large control tower. If R0 is worth 0.000083 / unit, then P4 is worth 2,222,222 / unit. If we count capital construction parts as regular P4 (we're talking 8 units so it's not affecting the end price by much) then 180 parts * 2,222,222 / unit = 399,999,960 to buy the parts for a large tower. Plus build costs, plus any profit you want to make on it. I'll leave you to do the math if we increase R0 to 5 isk / unit, but I'm starting to suspect my earlier math was wrong, and not in a good way. Even doubling the R0 price to 0.000166 means parts for a tower cost 800 million. Your math is in absolute failure mode. I HAVE done the math at 5 isk/unit for p0. Go look!. Hint: line 97 column L. Drox
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2010.06.30 21:15:00 - [43] The issue is: As rocket fuel will not be available to the same extent as before, soon(tm) the market of rocket fuel based stuff, e.g., missiles, will turn from buyer's market to seller's market. Your T2 furies will cost much more. If you were wise, you'd stockpile on your T2 missiles right now.
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.07.01 14:13:00 - [44] Originally by: Barbicane Not you apparently, and me neither (since I find PI repetitive and boring), but most people simply won't bother with all those calculations. We've seen it before with invention, and invention has a much higher entry threshold than PI. Invention is also 600-900 mil/month for not much work. Can get higher, but that's the baseline "any idiot can make this much" amount.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran Originally by: Barbicane Not you apparently, and me neither (since I find PI repetitive and boring), but most people simply won't bother with all those calculations. We've seen it before with invention, and invention has a much higher entry threshold than PI. Invention is also 600-900 mil/month for not much work. Can get higher, but that's the baseline "any idiot can make this much" amount. How much isk do you require to make that amount of profit? A lot more then you need for PI. Also for good invention you need a whole lot more skills then for good PI.
Khun SP Paramite Factories	Posted - 2010.07.09 21:36:00 - [46] Originally by: Milla Jovo***** The issue is: As rocket fuel will not be available to the same extent as before, soon(tm) the market of rocket fuel based stuff, e.g., missiles, will turn from buyer's market to seller's market. Your T2 furies will cost much more. If you were wise, you'd stockpile on your T2 missiles right now. Yeah this. Unfortunately rocket fuel is tough to produce, im doing 1200 units/day but I need 1750 to mantain my manufacture needs, so... LOL. Stockpiles will keep draining. Jita price = 5,700isk and growing, but more slowly.
Khun SP Paramite Factories	Posted - 2010.08.16 18:18:00 - [47] 8,800isk and still climbing the lulz.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.08.17 05:01:00 - [48] Originally by: Khun SP 8,800isk and still climbing Actually it's falling... Which is kinda weird cause it's still below production cost and there's at least two T2 missile types that have no stock left for sale in Jita. I guess missile producers for some reason just refuse to buy at that price.
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2010.08.17 11:28:00 - [49] Missile producers refuse to buy at the price since missiles are being sold at almost break even at the moment. When missile stocks run dry and prices climb, rocket fuel demand will increase again
beautyispain	Posted - 2010.08.17 18:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Julian Koll Missile producers refuse to buy at the price since missiles are being sold at almost break even at the moment. When missile stocks run dry and prices climb, rocket fuel demand will increase again Exactly! this is ****ed up. Problem is, this isn't about stocks running dry since the daily volume is so high that the stocks are being constantly replenished. I just think we have that many ignorant producers not doing their math. Either that or the major producers have huge stocks of rocket fuel and don't bother with participating in 0.01 stationtrading.



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