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Ja'thaal Deathbringer
Fortress Briggs Nobilium Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.07.19 08:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey all, There have been many possible solutions put forward as to the solution for AFK Cloaking, however I have an idea that may just be the solution.
Now, the current state of cloaking devices is that they completely hide your signature from all scanners. This seems a little overpowered as far as I (and many other members of the EVE community) am concerned, so how about we change it slightly.
My concept is that while cloaked you are hidden from normal sensors and core scanner probes, however, the emissions from your ship are still probe-able with combat scanner probes.
In order to balance this I also thought of a new module that will temporarily hide your emissions from all scanners, an Internal Emissions Sink, similar to the I.E.S. fitted to the Normandy from the Mass Effect series. This module would completely mask your signature for 30 minutes(that is a rough number and can be changed later), after that time it would force your ship to uncloak so that the I.E.S. could be purged. For the time required for the sink to be purged (I've still not figured out how long that would take, but if that were animated it would be quite cool) you would be completely visible and easily probed down.
Obviously this is a very rough idea and is something that will definitely need some more thought. As usual, don't troll and constructive comments only. Trolls will be reported.
If a Dev could take a look at this concept it would definitely be appreciated.
JD |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
64
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Posted - 2012.07.19 08:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Without a problem, a solution is unnecessary... Just sayin'. |
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
Fortress Briggs Nobilium Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.07.19 08:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
AFK Cloaking has been a problem for a long time, this would be a simple solution to it. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
425
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Posted - 2012.07.19 08:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Remove Local Chat Intel! |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
227
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Congratulations, you broke Wormholes.... have a cookie.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
66
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ja'thaal Deathbringer wrote:AFK Cloaking has been a problem for a long time, this would be a simple solution to it.
So either AFK is a problem or cloaking up? If the combination of both is your issue, Is being docked a problem, too? Please explain.
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
288
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Remove Local Chat Intel!
Blunt and to the point, but I'll humor the OP. There is a fallacy built into your assumption that AFK Cloakers need to be stopped, or countered. The reality of the situation is that there is no 'problem' with afk cloaking. Lets take a look at a few case examples;
Quote:-Case 1: I decide that I don't like the way that you post solutions to problems that don't exhist, knowing who you are and where you live I decide to camp your system for days on end because I felt like it. Because you have local chat and use it as an intel tool you know that I'm there. You form up to kill me and I easily slip through your gate camp and set up 5-6 safes and spend the next few hours cataloging and exploring your alliances home system.
Now I know the location of all your POS's your typical defensive fleet form up in that timezone, and the ship types that people generally like to fly in defensive ops. At this point I leave to go on a date with my girlfriend and you are still petrified that I even exhist, and my now red - name has been a taint on your local chat for a whole day now.
My day off is the next day and I decide to spend the whole time messing around and casually attacking at different timezones and even faking poorly executed attacks and possibly killing a ratter that wasn't paying attention. I hang out near your staging POS or quietly sit 200 KM from your station watching. I have another monitor so I'm watching a few episodes of SG-1. This would be called passive intel gathering.
After a few days or even a week your alliance members are sick of sitting in station. They start ratting and venturing out first in groups and then the odd adventurer goes out solo. I strike and if your lucky you set up a successful trap and you kill me, if not I get the kill and this whole thing starts over.
Not much fun for me, not much fun for you, but a part of the game that is a natural progression due to the fact that local chat gives 100% guarrantied intel.
Quote:-Case 2: Local chat is delayed, removed...whatever. I want to have some fun, and move a bomber to your home system. You have a cloaky scout up 2 jumps away from your home and see me jump through the gate. I don't know that you know I'm there because I didn't see your scout. I jump into system still thinking that you don't know I'm there and attack a ratter, but you've already got frigates in warp to kill me and successfully drive me off because I didn't know how many people you had in system, or that you even knew I was there.
If I don't find a mark to kill I log off and come back on later (I'm staying logged in). This time I find a mark and maybe kill him, but now your ready for me and I will have to pull something simular to what I did in case 1, log off, or go home out of boredom.
The difference is that you have a possibility of a counter attack or a successful bait if I, the attacker, cannot easily see your numbers or local count.
The truth of the matter is that local chat gives me the attacker a lot more intel and information than the defender. It is your base, it is your home, you have the advantage of not having to relocate pilots to fight, running defensive gate camps, setting up safety nets and almost instant reshipping; not to mention the capability for a good picket to inform you of incoming numbers and ship types allowing you to form up with the exact counter while the enemy remains clueless.
Local chat is a crutch that the majority of the nullsec community uses and begs ccp to keep in the game. CCP I dare you to take off our training wheels and see how we fly. I want you do make Nullsec hard, let us HTFU and see that we can succeed beyond what we don't even know we are capable of.
You want to see large alliances stop 'owning' so much space and not doing anything with it, take away local. People will have to fly smarter and better to keep what they have. You want to see small alliances with good pilots thrive; take away local. You want to see truely epic fights where movement and strategy are just as important as numbers, take away local.
CCP it is time that WE HTFU! TAKE AWAY LOCAL!!!
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Lord Zim
1027
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vastly increase the disparity in rewards between high and low/nullsec, and you will have laid the foundation for removing local without completely decimating the day to day nullsec population. Don't do this, and everyone'll just flock in even greater numbers to hisec L4s. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
80
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vastly increase the disparity in rewards between high and low/nullsec, and you will have laid the foundation for removing local without completely decimating the day to day nullsec population. Don't do this, and everyone'll just flock in even greater numbers to hisec L4s.
OMG Zim,,,, lol you're insane.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.
Zims insanity source
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Lord Zim
1027
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
So you've gone from debating to stalking and trolling? Okay then. |
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
80
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Posted - 2012.07.19 09:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:So you've gone from debating to stalking and trolling? Okay then.
reading the fourms is not stalkiing,, omg get over yourself. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
288
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Posted - 2012.07.19 10:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vastly increase the disparity in rewards between high and low/nullsec, and you will have laid the foundation for removing local without completely decimating the day to day nullsec population. Don't do this, and everyone'll just flock in even greater numbers to hisec L4s.
What are you afraid of that your alliance will collapse under the wieght of uncertainty? |
Lord Zim
1028
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Posted - 2012.07.19 10:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Vastly increase the disparity in rewards between high and low/nullsec, and you will have laid the foundation for removing local without completely decimating the day to day nullsec population. Don't do this, and everyone'll just flock in even greater numbers to hisec L4s. What are you afraid of that your alliance will collapse under the wieght of uncertainty? We're already collapsing under the weight of our fat and neckbeards. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
66
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Posted - 2012.07.19 10:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
ok either you guys start flogging that dead horse in this shiny new thread (next to countless others to the same topic)
or
you have a look in here: Commonly Proposed Ideas |
L0rdF1end
Mainly AFK
44
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Posted - 2012.07.19 11:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
AFK cloaking is a perfectly acceptable tactic for griefing.
I was apposed to this initially but now I see the value in it. Wihtout it, it would make targets of interest difficult to catch.
My suggestion to you would be to stop Carebearing so much and start greifing them back. Go find where their carebears are missioning/ratting and do the same to them.
Or, bait them into going for one of you so you can kill the incoming enemy force, that will make them think twice.
Nothing in Eve is handed to you on a plate. You have to fight for what you have. Put your missioning/ratting boat down and try and PVP your way out of the situation. |
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
Fortress Briggs Nobilium Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.07.19 12:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm not talking about a nerf as such, though your emissions would be able to be probed down it would take a very well skilled player to get a lock, rather that cloaky ships would change slightly and a new module be added in. Also, the internal emissions sink could be used to reduce your signature for a short period of time on a not cloaked ship.
And please, stop the trolling or you'll be reported for it. |
L0rdF1end
Mainly AFK
45
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Posted - 2012.07.19 12:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
These people aren't trolling, they are just sick of the same issue coming up again from PVE'ers. In order to create the safety you desire you'll have to show some teeth, end of.
Good luck. |
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
Fortress Briggs Nobilium Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.07.19 12:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
I might have a 5.0 sec status but that's because I've been missioning in Empire for the 7 months after Red Alliance screwed over Dust Alliance (which I was a part of and suffered heavy losses due to the fallout).
I'm a PvP'er. I'm also a cloaky pilot who thinks that this would make for an interesting gameplay mechanic, being forced to uncloak, or having emissions from your ship that are able to be probed down. If you don't like it, fine. But don't troll in my thread. |
L0rdF1end
Mainly AFK
47
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Posted - 2012.07.19 12:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Actuaully thought I was giving you some sound advice..oh well ..deaf ears. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
8216
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Posted - 2012.07.19 13:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why does AFK cloaking, need a solution? It's working as intended, to try to subverting your 100% risk free, instant local intel channel.
The fact you can AFK without a cloak and gain the same psychological effects, should tell you you're barking up the wrong tree.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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Batelle
French Defence Union
91
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Posted - 2012.07.19 13:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hahahaha no, **** off. The Golem - The "Meh" of Marauders |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
64
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Posted - 2012.07.19 13:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:Without a problem, a solution is unnecessary... Just sayin'.
Essentially this. AFK cloaking is not the problem it is the paranoia that it causes that is the problem. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
407
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Posted - 2012.07.19 13:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.
We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)
You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.
Too much focus on how to remove AFK cloaking. You are addressing a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.
When this is done, it becomes reasonable to consider means to hunt cloaked vessels. NOT before this happens.
So long as people in a system magically know cloaked pilots are present with them, cloaked vessels should not be vulnerable to being hunted effectively.
Cloaking will be earned when cloaking awareness is earned. Balance must be maintained. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
351
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Posted - 2012.07.19 14:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
cloaking is fine. its actually another form of docking (which has no limitations too) in terms of its safety potential.
Noone should be able to force any other person from a system if that person met minimum precaution measures for being in safety - i.e. cloak fitted. |
Lord Zim
1030
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Posted - 2012.07.19 14:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.
We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)
You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.
Too much focus on how to remove AFK cloaking. You are addressing a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.
When this is done, it becomes reasonable to consider means to hunt cloaked vessels. NOT before this happens.
So long as people in a system magically know cloaked pilots are present with them, cloaked vessels should not be vulnerable to being hunted effectively.
Cloaking will be earned when cloaking awareness is earned. Balance must be maintained. And you can't make these changes (effectively increasing the risk/effort of living in null/lowsec) without either increasing the rewards for doing what they're doing, or at the very least make sure the few who are actually making a living out there aren't bleeding over to run L4s instead because the risk/effort to reward ratio makes it a no-brainer to go run L4s instead. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
80
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.
We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)
You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.
Too much focus on how to remove AFK cloaking. You are addressing a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.
When this is done, it becomes reasonable to consider means to hunt cloaked vessels. NOT before this happens.
So long as people in a system magically know cloaked pilots are present with them, cloaked vessels should not be vulnerable to being hunted effectively.
Cloaking will be earned when cloaking awareness is earned. Balance must be maintained. And you can't make these changes (effectively increasing the risk/effort of living in null/lowsec) without either increasing the rewards for doing what they're doing, or at the very least make sure the few who are actually making a living out there aren't bleeding over to run L4s instead because the risk/effort to reward ratio makes it a no-brainer to go run L4s instead.
come on then Zim, suggest the rewards that would fix null/low sec. |
Lord Zim
1072
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yes, I'll suggest what I've suggested in the other thread and you'll keep telling me to "jog on" because you don't like the changes, and I'm not agreeing with you. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
80
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Yes, I'll suggest what I've suggested in the other thread and you'll keep telling me to "jog on" because you don't like the changes, and I'm not agreeing with you.
your butt hurt because anoms got nerfed.
i never said i didn't like any changes.
other thread
Lord Zim wrote: As I've said before, I expect the removal of local to have absolutely no effect on my playstyle whatsoever .
if it doesn't effect you why bother saying anything. |
Lord Zim
1072
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Posted - 2012.07.20 12:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Yes, I'll suggest what I've suggested in the other thread and you'll keep telling me to "jog on" because you don't like the changes, and I'm not agreeing with you. your butt hurt because anoms got nerfed. Nope. Remember, I apparently live in the best region for anoms in the game, I have nothing to be "butthurt" about. And they were nerfed for a good reason: they were hurting the economy because a ton of people were doing them. They got nerfed, and mostly everyone moved back to running L4s instead.
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:i never said i didn't like any changes. And yet, you keep on totally ignoring any suggestions I've made to temper the change, simply because you don't like them.
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lord Zim wrote: As I've said before, I expect the removal of local to have absolutely no effect on my playstyle whatsoever .
if it doesn't effect you why bother saying anything. And you forgot to include, in this thread as well, what I referred to (notice "as I've said before"? It's there for a reason) where I fleet up for fleetfights in nullsec, and I do all my iskmaking in hisec, because the risk/effort to reward ratio makes it mildly boneheaded to bother making isk in nullsec when you have tons of L4s in hisec basically doing the same job (only slightly slower), and that's with today's mechanics. Remove local without reducing the payouts in hisec, and guess what? That's only going to depopulate nullsec even further.
I can keep on pointing this out to you, but I expect you'll just do what you've chosen as your latest tactic and go with "you don't want any changes, so just jog on with your negative attitude", again. |
whaynethepain
45
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Posted - 2012.07.20 13:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
The answer is a Radio Paint Smart Bomb.
The smart bomb would have a blast area of 100 km or so, and the Radio Paint would only be reactive for 10 mins or so.
But if a Cloak Ship is caught in the blast, it would be target acquirable for the 10 mins or so.
Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
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