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Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.06.30 10:34:00 -
[1]
Please remove the goddamn learning skills!
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.06.30 19:16:00 -
[2]
Originally by: JitaBum
Originally by: Cat IntheBox I'm going to reiterate a call to dev update on this player-led anti-LS campaign.
I would be very surprised if CCP would do such a large change at the moment, especially when their attention isn't really on Eve
It's not really large.
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.06.30 19:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 30/06/2010 19:29:29
Originally by: JitaBum
Originally by: Jasdemi It's not really large.
Yeah cos all it involves is deleting a few database entries, rite?
+ adding few skill points to their new, awesome skill points pool!
PS: I even reported this thread several times, but no dev wants to respond. :(
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.06.30 19:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Spades Slick
Originally by: Mathias Black
Originally by: Spades Slick
Originally by: Mathias Black Agree with the OP, it's not a matter of IF they'll do it, but WHEN. They've already said they think the learning skills were a mistake.
Also, 1 billion ISK says 75% of the people who are adamantly defending learning skills will immediately switch sides and agree that they suck as soon as CCP announces their removal.
So when can I collect?
Because I believe strongly that, with the current system, patience and planning for the long term is rewarded. Without learning skills, it wouldn't be as amazing to have, say, a specialized Command guy for your fleet -- you can just go to corp chat, "Hey, can someone grab their Command Ship?", 20 people respond. You cut out the strategy of the game in favor of making it another generic skillfest like any of numerous other MMOs.
Uh... I think you might be confused... we're not talking about removing the whole skill training system, of course that will stay. We're just talking about the "Learning" skills specifically, you know, Learning, Iron Will, Analytical Mind, etc.
You DO realize that everything after Battleship pretty much has its own unique line of training? By doing Learning Skills, you can do the 100+ days to a command ship faster... and a person who commits to it DESERVES it at the end of the run.
Without player-controlled attribute boosting, or if everyone trains everything at the same speed as everyone else (barring implants or remaps, not sure what hogwash you want with those elements), doing any of those more intense, specialized skills becomes something ANYONE can do... and so no one will be as committed to the path they choose.
There are implants ingame, no?
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 14:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 15:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 01/07/2010 15:33:44
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
Learn how to write, tough guy.
no u
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.02 14:15:00 -
[7]
To hell with learning skills!
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 14:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Khun SP
LOLMAO?
I didn't say there are no more important decissions. But learning skills ofcourse are, and I should say one of the most important specially at the beginning.
You don't need to train for 5/5/5 but if someone does its his problem. Its like entering lowsec with a Charon and no scouts
So yeah lets get rid of learn skills and every other annoying stuff for noobs!! we want instawin and ravens after 3 days of gameplay plz!!!
EVE is turning WOW 2.0
Translation: My brain power is a way too low to realize that learnings hurt the game and keep new players away, because not everyone feels like paying few months for a game before actually starting to play it. However, like mentioned above, I don't get it and thus wanna-be-troll this forum. Due to my low brainpower I was often scammed in Jita, people promised to send double ISK, but never did. That's why I hate making EVE a little bit more enjoyable for newbies.
Thanks for your attention!
Khun SP
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Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 17:21:00 -
[9]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=VAgUwEztj28#t=38m10s
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.02 20:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Flossing Following is what I believe would make the game better for new players, without annoying older players.
Get rid of x1 learning skills give all characters +5 to each attribute, leave in the x3 skills and the x1 skill named learning. Reimburse all characters skill points trained in the x1 skills.
So alts and newbiews will have to train learnings 1.5 months instead of 2? You sir make sense.
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Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.03 08:40:00 -
[11]
o/
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.04 09:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: GalleMon learning skill will be removed?
when?
SoonÖ
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.05 14:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hemp Invader Come on guys, we almost made it to the 21st page to get a dev response...please keep pushing this thread of pure awesome
Yeah, they should ****ing stop keeping us in the dark. Either a yes or no.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.05 17:23:00 -
[14]
Don't forget to support this thread:
[Proposal] Learning skills solution
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.05 19:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 05/07/2010 19:50:21
Originally by: democrities
Originally by: GalleMon learning skill will be removed?
when?
Never. This entire thread is baseless speculation, and CCP has said that themselves. What CCP has NOT said, is anything about removing learning skills in the near future, and those touting it are speculatory re-tards who haven't a clue.
Afraid posting this bull**** which makes no sense with your main?
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.07 10:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: CCP Fallout Hello all,
I know many of you are enjoying yourselves today, posting baseless rumors about features of the game. While they may humor you, they are causing discord amongst the community, are considered trolling, and are not welcomed on our forums.
Please note that continued rumor threads may result in official warnings against your forum account and can result in the temporary or permanent removal of your posting privileges.
I'd hope that you'd all had your fun, but please keep in mind that trolling is prohibited.
Why is this thread still open? *tinfoil hat*
Because it's the truth. CCP is just watching the few threads about learnings remooval. Over 90% of all posters agree, so we can be pretty sure about the removal.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.07 15:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Jasdemi Because it's the truth. CCP is just watching the few threads about learnings remooval. Over 90% of all posters agree, so we can be pretty sure about the removal.
Yes CCP, please remove the Learning skills and do NOT grant anyone any bonus attribute points.
People will then train at a slower rate which equals more real life time spent on skills.
More real life time equals longer subscription requirements.
Longer subscription requirements equals more profit for CCP!
Go for it CCP!!!
Another angry vet!
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.07 16:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Originally by: Jasdemi
Another angry vet!
Another angry ADHD kid...
I'm a vet, does that make me angry?
Yes, you vets are grumpy old vets who complain about everything.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.07 17:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Like, learning skills?
Yeah. Although the vets who maxed their learnings are the real winners, they still complain. I don't get what going on in their addicted, possibly mentally disturbed heads.
Originally by: democrities Why is it that the mods have closed every other rumor thread except this one????
Because it's not a rumor. A dev confirmed the removal of learnings at fanfest '09. The SP reimbursement system was developed just for this purpose.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 13:48:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 08/07/2010 13:48:15
Originally by: AterraX
Originally by: Llyandrian
Originally by: Jasdemi
Because it's the truth. CCP is just watching the few threads about learnings remooval. Over 90% of all posters agree, so we can be pretty sure about the removal.
+1
-10
Lying won't help your lost cause...but keep whining, while I train with maxed learning skills ;)
All my learnings except charisma are maxed, so I don't really care if they decide NOT to remove the learnings. However few of my friends aren't dumb as me to pay few months subs for for practically nothing. They would probably give it another try.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.08 18:45:00 -
[21]
Up!
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 08/07/2010 20:54:34
Originally by: democrities
Originally by: rowbin hod Edited by: rowbin hod on 08/07/2010 19:07:34
Originally by: democrities
They developed the ability to reimburse SP to refund us SP for the downtime, in their own words.
I must have missed this. Can you point me to that specific quote please?
Read the dev blog much?
Seriously this whole thing was about SP for long downtime. Why? It saves them money.
This whole learning skills crap is SPECULATION and RUMOR (you know, mods, the type of rumors you said wouldn't be welcome on the board)
So they coded this feature just for this downtime? LMAO! If they wanted to give us SP, they could just give us 100% speed training bonus for 30 hours and not bother implementing this feature. If it was just a RUMOR, the mods could've closed the couple threads about learnings removal before they could even reach page two.
I really hope that you weren't serious about saying that they implemented this system just to give players 100k SP for the 30 hours downtime. It's pretty safe that learnings will be removed, the method is not set yet though.
You sir, are allowed to use your brain a little bit. God gave you this wonderful tool, use it!
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:00:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 08/07/2010 21:01:40
Originally by: democrities
No, use your brain a little. This was about money. Now instead of cash, if there is an extra long downtime they can simply refund you SP. This was done to save money.
Yeah, to save money they wasted developers hours to develop this feature. Dude, did you ever visit school? Stop blabbering bullcrap.
Giving players 100% training speed bonus for 30 hours would be much less time consuming.
Adding this SP reimbursement feature is the first step to reimburse SP for learnings, which will be removed in the near future.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: democrities
Really? You didnt see the poster a few posts back who linked directly the quote from CSM from the meeting with CCP? Wherein they debated a monetary refund or an SP refund? hence the creation of the system to refund SP?
Quote or it didn't happen.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.09 19:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: democrities
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: democrities
Really? You didnt see the poster a few posts back who linked directly the quote from CSM from the meeting with CCP? Wherein they debated a monetary refund or an SP refund? hence the creation of the system to refund SP?
Quote or it didn't happen.
Quote or it didnt happen? Its in this very same thread on page 18! I am not going to requote something for someone so lazy they can't even look back a page to find it.
Oh look, also another devblog today...changes to the game.. Oh wait, no surprise, it has NOTHING to do with learning skills.
Come on, requote it for me. It's such a hot summer day.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:56:00 -
[26]
New day, new hope, new bump, moar troll, moar selfish vets!
o/
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 14:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Firebyrd If new players don't like it, then don't play
That's the problem. Why shouldn't new players pay CCP money just due to learnings?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 18:41:00 -
[28]
So even if many old players stay, why shouldn't more newbies join? What's your purpose, learning lovers? This change will be better for EVERYONE.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 18:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Znopi Kichi I don't understand why people like you have to write things like this. Just be quiet. Or go play wow where the creaters have no integrity and they listen to idiots like you.
CCP made this game and they made it good ..So leave it to them, to think about changes or not changes in this case! I stand with ccp on everything, even when they make sweeping judgments about the market prices of minerals and dont bother to notice everything else thats dropped in value due to massive influx of new players in the last few years. lol
CCP said that learnings were a mistake and the best solution would be to get rid of them. How do you think all this speculation started?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 19:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 10/07/2010 19:11:10
Originally by: Sadian Edited by: Sadian on 10/07/2010 19:05:26
Quote: Anyways: inconvenience doesn't equal difficulty. It takes zero thought to train learning skills, it just takes time.
That has to be one of the most inane comments of all time. Don't you realize that applies to every skill? Why not just apply that line of reasoning to every skill in this game. Oh wait a second then Eve would be a first person shooter (See Dust 514 or 574 or whatever) Why do you people (learning skill whiners) come to this game, enjoy it, fail at it and then try and change the rules? If you suck at chess do you try and change the rules of the game? ALL worthwhile rewards require a bit of sacrifice and if you want to speed up your skill training a bit learn the skills necessary. Earn it! Quit demanding something for nothing! Love Sadian
Someone didn't have 'nuff balls to post with his main. :)
Also another thing:
Why this and 2 other threads across the forum weren't closed yet? Posting rumor will result in a lock, so why are all 3 threads still alive and kickin'?
Threads about SP purchase and SP remaps were closed in 1 day or so, but this one is open for almost 2 weeks now, and still not closed. May a QQ'ing vet explain me this?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Drykor I can't believe people are arguing to keep learning skills.
The funny part of the learning lovers is that none has stated a reason why this broken mechanic should be kept ingame. The vets who want learnings to remain are just angry, because they had to learn them. I also maxed all learnings, but I want them removed. Over 20 pages later and I still don't exactly understand what's going on in people's heads who want to keep learnings ingame. What's wrong with them?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kovcher Staklinch I don't understand why this thread is still open. I thought CCP mentioned rumour isn't allowed? I don't see any CCP confirming this rumour so why is it still open?
Isn't it obvious? This isn't a rumor. CCP said that learnings were a mistake and the best solution would be to get rid of them. We're just discussing about what they've said.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:34:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 11/07/2010 18:34:57 You MUST train learnings as a newbie. I think it's a huge difference if you get 15m SP instead of 8m per year, no?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes You don't have to train learning skills and Minmatar pilots don't have to train projectile weapons. Go tell all of the new pilots to skip learning skills and use hybrids of their projectile ships.
Crap when you get down to it you don't have to train skill at all not like they are going to cancel your account for it right. Ii think it would be a great idea to spend half my time playing Eve not training skills at all so i can rest up in between learning things. I would hate to learn things to quickly as a new player with no real skills. After all not training your learning skills is pretty close to only training half of the time.
What? Take a big breath and try again.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:10:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 11/07/2010 21:10:35
Originally by: Sniffy McJiggles They must be letting this thread go for a reason. It would seem that they could have locked it long ago. Although it has been a good discussion for both sides.
You're right. Threads about SP remaps and SP purchasing with real money were closed immediately. This one is running for over 2 weeks now. :D
Although trolls who are protecting the learnings are pretty pathetic, I must say.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes I want the points given to everyone.
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes
How am i a freeloader?
Wow, desperate vet wannabe-troll is out of arguments. CCP should close all 3 threads before you guys kill each other. Seriously, l2b moar constructive ... Don't kids learn this at school nowadays anymore?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.12 14:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Felix Esperium
Originally by: Felix Esperium ok instead of just saying "no" all the time I will throw in an idea.
Remove learning skills, give no free attributes, give learning SP back, implants stay the same.
Tie learning/attribute enhancement into the new player experience. Make the tutorials more involved and have them actually teach you how to play the game and give attribute points upon completion.
Each attribute should come from different sorts of tasks. Just as an example of what I'm thinking you could award a point of perception for fitting your ship, then another for shooting some rats, then another for getting your noob ship blown up (too many noobs are afraid of death) then maybe another for shooting a player ship, then one for surviving a GCC for a full 15 minutes. And so on for the rest of the points, with each task getting slightly more difficult and requiring a little more interaction with other players. Willpower points could be gained from using drones or taking a tour of lowsec or something. Charisma points could be gained by trading or joining a player corp. etc...
This way we aren't giving things out for free, new players get attributes without having to train for them, noobs get involved and actually learn the game while "training learning skills", they get out of highsec and experience a little of the variety the game has to offer before becoming mindless slaves to the mining/mission grind, and vets would be mildly inconvenienced but would most likely be able to accomplish all the tasks very quickly and painlessly. Make sure everything can be done from 0.0 too so people aren't forced to make a trip to empire if they don't want to. I would expect the total time of these attribute gathering missions to take maybe a few days to a week for a brand new player.
edited very slightly from the original since it's been awhile.
That's not too bad, but why waste precious dev times if this can be done much easier and better?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.12 20:07:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 12/07/2010 20:18:51
Originally by: Vee Raa
Yes, just like if you want to fire your guns quicker you gonna traid Rapid Firing, wanna remove that too?
Skills like Rapid Firing directly improves your characters. This motivates players, especially the new ones to continue playing the game. Learnings on the other side only affect chars indirectly and the ROI is very long. This leads to loss of motivation and possibly to cancellation of accounts. Not everyone is like this, but most of people would probably leave if they had to keep a sub running for 3 months for practically nothing.
Why shouldn't CCP let such people jump on and harvest money from them? Why should they throw away potential customers?
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.13 07:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gred McAlen I'm Gred McAlen and I support this suggestion!
Gred McAlen is right. Do it. Do it. Do it.
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Jasdemi
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alias Hentrah Sure, the whole thing sounds really nice - I too, would be happy to spend my 3.4M sp, that I spent on learning skills, on something else -, but the whole thing just gives a big wet smelly bag of **** to the game's balance! In real life, you have to learn how to learn, how to concentrate, how to think, how to comminicate (sell yourself) with others; why - oh why?! - wouldn't be the same in a game where you need to learn as much book as much you should in elementary school + high school + university/collage + other schools. It would be easier for new players, yes. And if you get your used sp relocated thats nice too. But the whole thing is no more than a carebear idea. If you don't like the system as it is now, go play WoW, there you can buy your skills as long as you have the money for it.
EvE =/= RL Games exist to have fun, not sitting in a station for 3 months and playing other games while your character trains learnings.
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Jasdemi
Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kingofpewpew I support this so please remove them CCP... I felt I had to do learning skills in order to compete with others first and before training anything else and it sucks
Had exactly the same newbie experience. Learning skills were like a doom loop for me. They took extremely long to train and if I didn't, I'd waste a lot of skill points. That's the only reason why I left back in early 2009. In 1 year or so I managed to come back and pulled it off. CCP has lost over 1 year of subs from me alone, all only due to the learnings.
Maybe my thinking was "wrong", but this is how I felt of the learning skills as a newbie.
It's no big deal for me if CCP decides to keep the learning skills, mine are maxed (except charisma) already, but they might see an increase in subs thanks to this change, I think.
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.16 22:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: democrities Why are you guys still discussing this? Its been 23 pages and CCP has said nothing. There has been no devblog. No Nothing. Can't you guys take a hint? Learning skills aren't going anywhere, atleast in the near future. So talking about what you would do if they removed learning skills is as about as productive as me discussing what I would do If I got Sandra Oh in the sac: ie: Not at all, because it isn't gonna happen
We'll keep this thread open until the late future then. Maybe someone will suggest some epic solution regarding this problem until then. Am I right, wannabe-troll?
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REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Jasdemi
Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.17 10:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: democrities
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: democrities Why are you guys still discussing this? Its been 23 pages and CCP has said nothing. There has been no devblog. No Nothing. Can't you guys take a hint? Learning skills aren't going anywhere, atleast in the near future. So talking about what you would do if they removed learning skills is as about as productive as me discussing what I would do If I got Sandra Oh in the sac: ie: Not at all, because it isn't gonna happen
We'll keep this thread open until the late future then. Maybe someone will suggest some epic solution regarding this problem until then. Am I right, wannabe-troll?
Im just beig realistic. Learning skills arent going anywhere
Not really realistic. If all this was just a rumor, CCP would've closed at day one. Learnings will be removed very soon, don't worry.
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Jasdemi
Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.18 09:18:00 -
[44]
<input reply here>
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Jasdemi
Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.21 18:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 21/07/2010 18:03:34 *Digging out a serious thread.*
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