Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 30 .. 30 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
KaarBaak
Minmatar Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative
|
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:15:00 -
[571]
/reported for rumor-mongering per CCP Fallout.
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Sadian
|
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:41:00 -
[572]
Quote: Someone didn't have 'nuff balls to post with his main. :)
This is my main. I did play several years before but this is who I am playing now. I'm living in Kor-Azor region mostly right now and I stand by everything I wrote. Now I'm off to practice 'Presence' just to gall the anti-learning brigade. Sadian
|
Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
|
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:32:00 -
[573]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Hello all,
I know many of you are enjoying yourselves today, posting baseless rumors about features of the game. While they may humor you, they are causing discord amongst the community, are considered trolling, and are not welcomed on our forums.
Please note that continued rumor threads may result in official warnings against your forum account and can result in the temporary or permanent removal of your posting privileges.
I'd hope that you'd all had your fun, but please keep in mind that trolling is prohibited.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
Direct link ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Orimei
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 00:43:00 -
[574]
Edited by: Orimei on 11/07/2010 00:46:50 Edited by: Orimei on 11/07/2010 00:44:41
Originally by: Sadian Edited by: Sadian on 10/07/2010 19:05:26
Quote: Anyways: inconvenience doesn't equal difficulty. It takes zero thought to train learning skills, it just takes time.
Don't you realize that applies to every skill? Why not just apply that line of reasoning to every skill in this game. Oh wait a second then Eve would be a first person shooter (See Dust 514 or 574 or whatever)
No, you are wrong. Every other skill takes thought, a decision. Don't care for mining? Don't train. Need more powergrid? Train engineering. Do I need drones now or later? Do I like Caldari ships or Amarr?
You see every skill that is not a learning skill enables you to use stuff or makes your ship better.
Learning skills are above this system. They enable quicker skilltimes which everyone likes, so no it does not take thought to train them.
Edit: just for clearification: implants have a risk vs reward mechanism so they are not comparable to learning skills even if they too enable quicker training times.
|
Sadian
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 01:48:00 -
[575]
Quote: No, you are wrong. Every other skill takes thought, a decision. Don't care for mining? Don't train. Need more powergrid? Train engineering. Do I need drones now or later? Do I like Caldari ships or Amarr?
You see every skill that is not a learning skill enables you to use stuff or makes your ship better.
Learning skills are above this system. They enable quicker skilltimes which everyone likes, so no it does not take thought to train them.
Ori I am not wrong. You are operating under the misguided assumption that learning skills are a requirement. They are not, they are a bonus if you CHOOSE to train them. It appears that most people CHOOSE to train them (to level 4) so what? You can accomplish everything in game without ever training a learning skill. There is only one required skill and that is spaceship command. Sadian
|
Orimei
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 01:56:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Sadian
You are operating under the misguided assumption that learning skills are a requirement. They are not, they are a bonus if you CHOOSE to train them. It appears that most people CHOOSE to train them (to level 4) so what? You can accomplish everything in game without ever training a learning skill. There is only one required skill and that is spaceship command. Sadian
Sure only to choose to not train learning skills is so ****ing ******ed that everybody chooses to train them instead. Making them a de facto requirement if you ever want to get that ship in a timely manner.
I didn't have to think about training learning, did you? Seriously?
Instead I think about stuff like Crusader vs Taranis? Which do I train first?
|
Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:31:00 -
[577]
For the sake of privacy I will not spout names, but I know a few people that started the learnings only a while ago, as when they started EVE, they where not around, and being already a few years old, there was no incentive to start learning them when they came out.
Learnings can be done with in 1 month, if you do it at account start and use the bonus for it. You can also use the bonus for getting in something fast, in which case the learnings become a drag, and you train slower for a huge amount of time.
Do not remove learning skills, they are a good way to give people more choices on how to proceed: will I invest in a long term EVE career (and be utterly useless the first month or so, or will I speedtrain into <insert random ship here> and get to the learnings later.
Just handing out a bunch of SP on account start would do exactly the same, but following that logic, you could argue a 10m SP start as well, as eventualy people will get there
========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:55:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Ressiv
Do not remove learning skills, they are a good way to give people more choices on how to proceed: will I invest in a long term EVE career (and be utterly useless the first month or so, or will I speedtrain into <insert random ship here> and get to the learnings later.
Sounds like a choice of "SHOULD I HAVE FUN OR THROW 1st MONTH AWAY"
Seriously, there is NO good reason to make the first month a player has the WORST one. It is a stupid requirement and needs to be removed. New players should be encouraged to play the game, not queue a ton of skills that do not advance their character and WAIT because they can't do anything else.
The only argument really against this is "we had to grind that crap, force the newbs to do it too!". It's just bitter whining, you'd get the SP back, all the while having the benefit of having those trained in the first place over all that time.
|
Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 09:12:00 -
[579]
I can't believe people are arguing to keep learning skills. Just because you're used to them and had to do them doesn't make them valueable. Look up cognitive dissonance, seems like a lot of people are experiencing that. They're a complete and utter crap mechanic. I started this game with about 15 other people I knew, these guys were fairly hardcore coming from an Ultima Online lookalike. ALL of them quit, mostly because they got completely fed up with the 'choice' between doing learning skills and doing something fun. They chose not to and saw me get ahead of them in SP really fast since I did do them. Even though I couldn't fly jack **** at all. ALl of them left the game and only a couple came back at a later time. If there's 1 thing keeping new players from staying, it's probably this.
Get rid of this mechanic, it doesn't make any sense at all.
|
Jasdemi
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:07:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Drykor I can't believe people are arguing to keep learning skills.
The funny part of the learning lovers is that none has stated a reason why this broken mechanic should be kept ingame. The vets who want learnings to remain are just angry, because they had to learn them. I also maxed all learnings, but I want them removed. Over 20 pages later and I still don't exactly understand what's going on in people's heads who want to keep learnings ingame. What's wrong with them?
=-=-=-=-=
REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
|
Kovcher Staklinch
Caldari Universal Moose Federation
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:16:00 -
[581]
I don't understand why this thread is still open. I thought CCP mentioned rumour isn't allowed? I don't see any CCP confirming this rumour so why is it still open?
|
Jasdemi
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:18:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Kovcher Staklinch I don't understand why this thread is still open. I thought CCP mentioned rumour isn't allowed? I don't see any CCP confirming this rumour so why is it still open?
Isn't it obvious? This isn't a rumor. CCP said that learnings were a mistake and the best solution would be to get rid of them. We're just discussing about what they've said.
=-=-=-=-=
REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:28:00 -
[583]
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Drykor I can't believe people are arguing to keep learning skills.
The funny part of the learning lovers is that none has stated a reason why this broken mechanic should be kept ingame. The vets who want learnings to remain are just angry, because they had to learn them. I also maxed all learnings, but I want them removed. Over 20 pages later and I still don't exactly understand what's going on in people's heads who want to keep learnings ingame. What's wrong with them?
*headdesks*
I am pro learning skills and i'm not a vet, i currently run 4/4 learning skills aswell planning to take them to 5/5 soon. I've only been playing for a few months so far. The only thing i have seen from the ones that want anti learning removed is.
1. Newbies has to train them the first thing they do or they are gimped.
FALSE, they do not have to do this unless they want their first time in the game to be boring, instead they should do it step by step and raise the stats that are useful for their chosen profession.
2. Learning skills are a must and are required to be able to compete.
FALSE, why SP may be important it is your own experience with a ship or proffesion that takes you somewhere. A person that intends to pvp don't have to train learning skills first, they should get some ewar, gunnery/missile skills and frig skill up instead of do learning, and they will be very able to compete with a vet after enough time.
3. Waah Waah WAAH i can't be bothered to think on how i am going to train my learning skills and i have to tell others how to skill up their character.
So far i have seen the anti learnign skills people being the ones REINFORCING that you have to train the learning skills FIRST as a new player. Us pro learning skills have given suggestions and option for compromnise, but it seems like those against learning skills are unable to accept them and want all the bonuses at once like a welfare plan.
|
Jasdemi
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:34:00 -
[584]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 11/07/2010 18:34:57 You MUST train learnings as a newbie. I think it's a huge difference if you get 15m SP instead of 8m per year, no?
=-=-=-=-=
REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:42:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Jasdemi
You MUST train learnings as a newbie. I think it's a huge difference if you get 15m SP instead of 8m per year, no?
If you think so, then train them. Not everyone cares about their SP/year though.
I still haven't seen any argument from you other than "waahhh learning skills are so boring to train so please get rid of them since they are required and provide no benefits. Oh wait, they do provide benefits so please give us those for free. No I will not provide a single suggestion or compromise other than 'gimme that stuff for free' and anyone who feels otherwise obviously has RL problems or is a bitter vet."
|
Kovcher Staklinch
Caldari Universal Moose Federation
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:45:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Kovcher Staklinch I don't understand why this thread is still open. I thought CCP mentioned rumour isn't allowed? I don't see any CCP confirming this rumour so why is it still open?
Isn't it obvious? This isn't a rumor. CCP said that learnings were a mistake and the best solution would be to get rid of them. We're just discussing about what they've said.
So CCP saying it's a mistake and that they would be getting rid of them isn't a rumour? So it's confirmed? |
Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:45:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Jasdemi Edited by: Jasdemi on 11/07/2010 18:34:57 You MUST train learnings as a newbie. I think it's a huge difference if you get 15m SP instead of 8m per year, no?
No you do not, while it may be a difference, what will those 15 million SP's a year do if you got no idea what you find fun and what you eventually want to go into, i.e pvp, missions, mining the whole spectrum.
So if you train 5/5 for the first three months as a new player, and then you get into a career who won't train any charisma based skills i.e a pure pvp'er and no social/LS skills. Then you have effectivelly made a new player waste several million isk, isk they might have been forced to borrow because 20 million isk is no small sum to a beginner.
Also they have wasted training time they could spend on other skills related to what they want to do or experiment.
Order a new player should go in is. 1. Get a feel for the game, try mining, pvp and missions as the larger proffesions, or trading if you want to do that.
2. Get a steady income first off, BC's usually work great for this, and in turn the new player will be able to FUND his own learning skills books aswell as be able to make himself a steady income. Can be mining aswell.
3. Train the appropiate learning skill levels based on their long term plan if they have one, if you have a plan that only stretches for five to six months it is pointless to take learning skills to 5/5. Train skills in steps including learning skills.
Many people have allready suggested the final option in number 3 aswell, but it has been met for deaf ears. You aren't forced to train all at once, best deal is to train them to a basic level 4/3 or 4/4 after you have some idea what you want to do. Then as you feel the need for it train them to 5/4 or 5/5. Like you would do with any other long term plan in EVE, do them in stages, get some fun inbetween like a new ship or the ability to fit better modules to your drake (just an example.
SO while there is a differencem it is pointless if a new player don't know what it wants to do.
|
Lefty Twotimes
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:34:00 -
[588]
Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:35:35 Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:35:19 Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:34:55
Originally by: Reldor Silverheart
No you do not, while it may be a difference, what will those 15 million SP's a year do if you got no idea what you find fun and what you eventually want to go into, i.e pvp, missions, mining the whole spectrum.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Thus, there is ample room for the statement that "elite" learnign skills will benefit them more, since most of them already have the prerequisites to train them off the bat when they come out, while, say a new player, just gets more learning skills the they have to learn to be long term competitive.
And you see, this is the real point why it's the last thing to do. We dont WANT more "mandatory" skills which give you no direct benefit. If anything, we'd like to exterminate the damn things.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=298143&page=3#81
I would take a dev saying you have to over you saying you don't and giving crappy reasons.
|
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:40:00 -
[589]
confirming that Oveur personally cancels your account if you don't train learning skills.
|
Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:46:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:35:35 Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:35:19 Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 20:34:55
Originally by: Reldor Silverheart
No you do not, while it may be a difference, what will those 15 million SP's a year do if you got no idea what you find fun and what you eventually want to go into, i.e pvp, missions, mining the whole spectrum.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Thus, there is ample room for the statement that "elite" learnign skills will benefit them more, since most of them already have the prerequisites to train them off the bat when they come out, while, say a new player, just gets more learning skills the they have to learn to be long term competitive.
And you see, this is the real point why it's the last thing to do. We dont WANT more "mandatory" skills which give you no direct benefit. If anything, we'd like to exterminate the damn things.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=298143&page=3#81
I would take a dev saying you have to over you saying you don't and giving crappy reasons.
Why don't they do that then? Nothing stops them does it, at least in theory. They got the means to reimburse the points if they want to. Or it could be the fact that there is something in the way of them doing it. They could have decided to remove the learning skills long ago.
|
|
Lefty Twotimes
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:47:00 -
[591]
You don't have to train learning skills and Minmatar pilots don't have to train projectile weapons. Go tell all of the new pilots to skip learning skills and use hybrids of their projectile ships.
Crap when you get down to it you don't have to train skill at all not like they are going to cancel your account for it right. Ii think it would be a great idea to spend half my time playing Eve not training skills at all so i can rest up in between learning things. I would hate to learn things to quickly as a new player with no real skills. After all not training your learning skills is pretty close to only training half of the time.
|
Jasdemi
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:53:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes You don't have to train learning skills and Minmatar pilots don't have to train projectile weapons. Go tell all of the new pilots to skip learning skills and use hybrids of their projectile ships.
Crap when you get down to it you don't have to train skill at all not like they are going to cancel your account for it right. Ii think it would be a great idea to spend half my time playing Eve not training skills at all so i can rest up in between learning things. I would hate to learn things to quickly as a new player with no real skills. After all not training your learning skills is pretty close to only training half of the time.
What? Take a big breath and try again.
=-=-=-=-=
REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:54:00 -
[593]
people often use projectiles on ships they weren't designed for. Clearly everyone must train projectiles!
Wait people are still training hybrids? Don't they know those are only like 50% as effective? Obviously these fools shouldn't be playing this game if they can't min/max their dps.
Wait, you mean people mining in frigs aren't even 50% as effective as barge miners? Why bother playing (mining) until you are in a hulk? You aren't doing it as efficiently as "everyone else" so you shouldn't even bother, right?
|
Lefty Twotimes
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:00:00 -
[594]
Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 21:07:51 Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 21:05:41 Lol the skill point reimbursement system just got a nice live mass testing. I'm just popping in every now and then and poking at the worst of the arguments for keeping the skills. I have a quote from a Executive Producer back before he was in that position. When talking about removing skills before they mentions the difficultly of making a skill reimbursement system for getting rid of learning skills and now they have one. With all of that i have little doubt they are going away.
I find all of the people fighting for the particular learning increase system that CCP regrets adding quite amusing. The player support for removing them is more then enough for CCP to continue along their path to removing them from the game. Please continue to make bad arguments for them though. I find them funny if their complete ridiculousness and I find it hard to believe that CCP can take many of them seriously at all.
|
Sniffy McJiggles
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:01:00 -
[595]
They must be letting this thread go for a reason. It would seem that they could have locked it long ago. Although it has been a good discussion for both sides.
|
Lefty Twotimes
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:06:00 -
[596]
Edited by: Lefty Twotimes on 11/07/2010 21:06:11
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Lefty Twotimes You don't have to train learning skills and Minmatar pilots don't have to train projectile weapons. Go tell all of the new pilots to skip learning skills and use hybrids of their projectile ships.
Crap when you get down to it you don't have to train skill at all not like they are going to cancel your account for it right. Ii think it would be a great idea to spend half my time playing Eve not training skills at all so i can rest up in between learning things. I would hate to learn things to quickly as a new player with no real skills. After all not training your learning skills is pretty close to only training half of the time.
What? Take a big breath and try again.
Sorry i must of forgotten to add in clear marks to emphasize all of the sarcasm in that statement. I forgot that people will try and misread anything you say if you don't clarify every point.
|
Jasdemi
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:10:00 -
[597]
Edited by: Jasdemi on 11/07/2010 21:10:35
Originally by: Sniffy McJiggles They must be letting this thread go for a reason. It would seem that they could have locked it long ago. Although it has been a good discussion for both sides.
You're right. Threads about SP remaps and SP purchasing with real money were closed immediately. This one is running for over 2 weeks now. :D
Although trolls who are protecting the learnings are pretty pathetic, I must say.
=-=-=-=-=
REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
AterraX
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:10:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Sniffy McJiggles They must be letting this thread go for a reason. It would seem that they could have locked it long ago. Although it has been a good discussion for both sides.
I think they are looking at the replies...and having a good laugh at the trolling. If anything this thread has shown that messing with the learning skills would cause major dissatisfaction.
So if anything can be gather from this thread it is that there are 3 sides.
The freeloaders side: They want it all, with no effort. They want the skills attribute bonus...but won't train to get it. They cry really loud, but are very small in numbers.
The "have trained, let it be side". These players have trained learninb skills and like their attribute bonus. They don't want a simple SP/ISK reimbursement, they want to keep things as they are. I would say these are the majority of players.
And then people like me. The "Okay, remove the skillsbooks and nothing more...and enjoy the whinefeast" We say: OK remove the skillbooks from the game...but don't award the attribute bonus to anyone who didn't train the skills. We are still very few in numbers...but every whine about removing the learning skills adds to our numbers.
So go ahead...whine about the removal of learning skills...but be carefull for what you wish for ;)
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:13:00 -
[599]
"waahhh learning skills are so boring to train so please get rid of them since they are required and provide no benefits. Oh wait, they do provide benefits so please give us those for free. No I will not provide a single suggestion or compromise other than 'gimme that stuff for free' and anyone who feels otherwise obviously has RL problems or is a bitter vet."
|
democrities
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:13:00 -
[600]
Gee, 20 pages and still no CCP response, no announcement in dev blogs, no nothing. Further confirmation that the OP was full of crap and this is pure speculaion not based on fact. As much as you parrots want to, repeating this stuff over and over again wont make it happen. This isn't the wizard of Oz where saying something 3 times while clicking your heels makes it happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 30 .. 30 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |