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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:08:00 -
[841]
This sums it up for me. Couldn't have written it better:
Originally by: Catari Taga
Learning skills are a nice balance between people wanting instant gratification and people who are anal about min/maxing their character. I didn't do learning skills right away (why would I do that, I wanted to play the game...) and haven't maxed them out even now although things like EVEmon will tell me I'd save 3 weeks of trainig over the next few years. So what? I've lost more days of training by not training at all (in particular before we had a queue) than I would ever get back by learning skills, can't say I'm feeling like a gimped character though.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:22:00 -
[842]
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 05/10/2010 10:29:51
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Originally by: CyberGh0st You can keep spinning it how you want, it is pretty clear there is less consensus over removing learning skills than there is for example about not introducing plex for remaps.
Lul. The same people are butthurt over both, for the most part, and are just against letting people who haven't played as long of them have any sort of chance against them, thus keeping the crippling of expansion in Eve firmly in place. People vs. Change. Kind of like Republicans vs. Evolution. Oh well.
You are so waay off the mark, really, vets that are playing 2+ years really don't worry when newbies get some perks, it is peanuts. Newbies will never catch up to vets in regards of absolute skillpoints, unless you completely change the system.
Honestly I think to attract even more new players than they already did over the years, other things should be done, like fixing and streamlining the UI, fleshing out content that never really got finished ( Cosmos, Factional Warfare, ... ), making sound actually work ( starting by reversing to Pre-Apocrypha and build further from there ).
But to show you how much a bitter vet I am, I will say, give all newbies 4/3 in learning, with no compensations for the vets. Then the so called "smart" people, don't have to give the "good" advice to newbies to stay docked and learn all the learning skills first, but learn combat or trade skills first. To make it even better, make the 100% training boost last till 3.2m skillpoints instead of 1.6m
I will make a bet with you, that once learning skills are removed, the next thing people will moan over is level 5 skills and the point of it, or training over time in general.
I can live with an experience based game, played them all my life ( before EVE ), so I would not mind grinding NPC's to gain XP for my next level. So go ahead and do it, np, I even proposed it myself a while back.
But stop asking something for nothing and stop dumbing down the game.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Nuts Nougat
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:44:00 -
[843]
Learning skills can be removed, but only if everyone's attributes stay as they are currently. I am only saying this because I trained all learnings to 5. ---
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:54:00 -
[844]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat Learning skills can be removed, but only if everyone's attributes stay as they are currently. I am only saying this because I trained all learnings to 5.
Not going to happen.
If we do get learning skills removed then all characters should recieve a boost to their base attributes to compensate for it.
Any SP already spent on learning skills is to be refunded and useable like we already have done once before.
It's nothing that hasnt already been repeated a thousand times before though.
Originally by: CCP Capslock
OH GOD THE TESTING
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JacobsGladedage
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:19:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph Only a complete and total idiot intent on the fraternity initiation mindset would be ****ed off at retaining the same attributes and training speed that their characters had previously (more than that, if you only trained one month's worth per character), while receiving several million SP in recompense.
It's idiocy, plain and simple.
Oh I agree, but I never said anything about wanting an unfair distribution of attributes based on whatever skillpoints people have now.
I just pointed out nobody would care about the learning skill debate if it wasn't because they wanted something for free.
Originally by: Ehgrimm Demanding something impossible as reparations is pretty child-like imo.
I'm not demanding anything I simply said I don't think CCP will remove something that has had such a profound impact on the game for so long.
You may think it's we're being silly angry children because we don't want others to have something we made choices and sacrifices to get, for free. But I honestly picked up on that doing the first 27 pages. :p
Time may prove me wrong, but I'm just two days from finishing 5/4 learning on my latest alt and I guess that speaks for itself? ;)
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:23:00 -
[846]
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph It's not fine how it is. Delete learning skills.
See how easy that is? This thread can be summed up very succintly:
NUH-UH
UH-HUH
NUH-UH
*sniffity sniff* Ahhh yes, this post wafts of noob not wanting to train learning skills. Well, we all did and now it's your turn. QQ
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Cataca
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Posted - 2010.10.05 21:21:00 -
[847]
Originally by: Voith
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cataca No, but finishing something that does actually contribute to your character other than training contributing character skills up was indeed more gratifying.
I'm not sure what that even means. Are you saying that doing things other than skill training is gratifying? Yeah, I agree ... but that has no bearing on a discussion about learning skills?
-Liang
If right clicking something and waiting 4 hours for the rest of your training to be done 5% faster causes immersion you must **** yourself just looking at something in 3d.
drunken posting skills ftw.
Anyway, i was beeing sarcastic in my first post, it adds nothing to the game is what i meant. Reread it and you will notice that.. maybe.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.10.05 21:46:00 -
[848]
Quote: If we do get learning skills removed then all characters should recieve a boost to their base attributes to compensate for it.
Absolutely not.
If you think learning skills add nothing, thats fine.
Either replace them with a better system (I have yet to see one proposed) or take everyone back down to base skills.
The less time training takes, the less important your decisions concerning your characters career path are.
Speeding up training without having to make some serious decisions, or taking some risks, is not a desirable outcome. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.05 22:16:00 -
[849]
When i started to play this game I soon found out that things require quite some time to train. After a "false start" I decided to make this character and train the support and learning skills first, the so called "int/mem" skills.
I'm also playing other games at the moment and don't login a lot until I'm done doing those skills. I've trained intelligence to 5/5 and memory to 5/4. I still think it's not going very fast but I don't really mind. I just take my time: somewhere in november I'll start training ships and weapons, to which I'm looking forward to. I've done tutorials, some missions, tried some basics of the game and read a lot of tips and tricks and what ships and setups are recommended for what.
I can imagine though that if you want to jump right into the game those learning skills aren't something you'll like. And honestly I don't really see why they require so much extra time to train, there's quite a lot of them. But well that's how they designed the game, it just means I'll be playing other games for a few extra months before I can concentrate on EVE. I've read a lot of good things about it so I hope it will be nice to explore all the parts of the game I haven't done yet.
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Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:12:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Speeding up training without having to make some serious decisions....
Serious decisions? Learning skills are a one-dimensional, linear no-brainer. The one and only correct choice is to train them all to at least IV/V as soon as possible.
The "serious decision" you speak of is essentially a rookie's choice between being bored out of their mind for a month or nerfing their training efficiency by scrabbling for at least a few helpful skills in the interim.
You don't want learning skills changed because you embrace the fraternity initiation mindset, period. It upsets you to think that a rookie might not have to go through the same hardships you went through. Your paper-thin arguments that dance around this core fact don't fool me.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.10.06 11:50:00 -
[851]
Hmm I am starting to think that the advocates for removing the learning skills are not interested in getting new players, they are just bitter vets that never trained them ;p
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.10.06 11:56:00 -
[852]
I wish!
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.06 13:05:00 -
[853]
Originally by: CyberGh0st
And what about the newbie that starts 1 month later, he will never be able to catch up ...
This so true, what with being able to train a skill to ever higher levels without any limit or cap. Suck it new guys, I'm already on Amarr Cruiser VIII and you'll never be better than me MANIACAL LAUGHTER!!!!!!11111oneomgbbq
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Arkanor
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.10.06 13:36:00 -
[854]
Edited by: Arkanor on 06/10/2010 13:37:47
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote: If we do get learning skills removed then all characters should recieve a boost to their base attributes to compensate for it.
Absolutely not.
If you think learning skills add nothing, thats fine.
Either replace them with a better system (I have yet to see one proposed) or take everyone back down to base skills.
The less time training takes, the less important your decisions concerning your characters career path are.
Speeding up training without having to make some serious decisions, or taking some risks, is not a desirable outcome.
"Serious decisions in your characters' career path"? People don't make those.
Want a combat char? Remap and go! Want an mining char? Well you're all set for combat, roll a specialized alt instead Want a capital character? Roll another alt
etc.
This game rewards specialization fairly heavily, the result is not people planning ahead, but rolling more optimized characters for each individual job. That breaks immersion, at least to me to know that I need to be 3 people at once to be anywhere near peak efficiency.
Cutting the learning skills certainly won't solve that issue, people will still take every edge they can get, but training times don't need to be any longer.
Still supporting removal even with NO compensation, it's just a garbage mechanic that needs removal.
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ImCoolerThanYou
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:33:00 -
[855]
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Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:40:00 -
[856]
Originally by: democrities
Originally by: Deizel Soon enough, there will be a Dev Blog describing why and how Learning Skills will be removed from the game.
This will result in:
1) All characters will receive an additional +10 points for each attribute (same as max attribute learning skills) 2) All skill training will be 10% faster (same as "Learning" skill effect) 3) Skillpoints that were formerly under "Learning Skills" will become "unallocated Skillpoints" (out of fairness to those who trained those skills)
Further changes:
4) New characters will get 900,000 Skillpoints to allocate instantly as they like (to make characters more useful as well as more specialized right from the start)
Disclaimer: I do not work for CCP, nor do I have any insider information; this is my personal opinion only.
Uh huh. Sure buddy. Right, and guess what, next week I'm going to find out I've won the powerball while getting it with Sandra Oh in the back of a Lamborghini being driven by Vida Guerra through a lot on the playboy mansion watching a photoshoot.
What were the winning numbers?
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Limvala Adur
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Posted - 2010.11.25 20:15:00 -
[857]
I can't stop laughing! The above poster is my hero!!
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.25 20:17:00 -
[858]
Anyone found names of players promising to leave when the learning skills would be removed?
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Gordon McClaine
Caldari The Black Company TBC
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Posted - 2010.11.25 20:30:00 -
[859]
good riddens to learning skills.. WOOP WOOP!
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2010.11.25 20:34:00 -
[860]
I really like the attitude of wrapping stuff up as "present" whilst saying "you MUST take it" combined with "we have no time to think of anything better"...
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Prophet Rising
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Posted - 2010.11.25 21:51:00 -
[861]
I'm really not too sure what to think about this learning skills thing. Don't really care about my existing toons, couldn't care less. But I just started a new toon 2 weeks ago with the intent of getting into T3 QUICKLY, spent money and time on learning skills, and now what? No more 100% training time... Does this mean I should kill him and start over?? This is the only part of this that I can't wrap my head around: starting a new toon only to have what I've done so far go into the crapper.
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Biocross
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:12:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Borun Tal I'm really not too sure what to think about this learning skills thing. Don't really care about my existing toons, couldn't care less. But I just started a new toon 2 weeks ago with the intent of getting into T3 QUICKLY, spent money and time on learning skills, and now what? No more 100% training time... Does this mean I should kill him and start over?? This is the only part of this that I can't wrap my head around: starting a new toon only to have what I've done so far go into the crapper.
Your character is gonna get into T3 even faster. Allow me to explain: It has the bonus now, the bonus is not dissapearing until the 1600000 sp line, or the learnings are removed. All points you spend on learnings until that time will be free to realocate instantly at that time into whatever you want.
What does this mean?
Well, it means that if you already got the books (and it woulda been a good idea to have got them because they are no longer seeded and have shot in price), if you start training learnings on that toon (which you were gonna do anyway) you will be training at 4 k sp or so before long. Then ue whichever attributes you maxes to train relevant skills as you would normally.
BUT: When the learnings go, get your attributes set to max learnings, and all the sp you spent on them back. This can easily go towards the T3 you want.. or whatever else for that matter. It should make you get it faster, actually.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Prophet Rising
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:16:00 -
[863]
Originally by: Biocross Your character is gonna get into T3 even faster. Allow me to explain: It has the bonus now, the bonus is not dissapearing until the 1600000 sp line, or the learnings are removed. All points you spend on learnings until that time will be free to realocate instantly at that time into whatever you want.
OK, well, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Greyscale's dev blog dated today (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=824&utm_source=newsletter49&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter49) he specifically says the bonus will go away immediately, at tonight's downtime. So no bonus in the morning...
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kurg
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:17:00 -
[864]
About time, i for one am glad this is being done .. FINALLY!
and to all the nay sayers ..... IN YO FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Biocross
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:23:00 -
[865]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Biocross Your character is gonna get into T3 even faster. Allow me to explain: It has the bonus now, the bonus is not dissapearing until the 1600000 sp line, or the learnings are removed. All points you spend on learnings until that time will be free to realocate instantly at that time into whatever you want.
OK, well, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Greyscale's dev blog dated today (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=824&utm_source=newsletter49&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter49) he specifically says the bonus will go away immediately, at tonight's downtime. So no bonus in the morning...
No problem, here is the relevant quote:
HEREFORE, let it be understood that we have now the following plan:
As of downtime today, all NPC sell orders for the eleven skills in the Learning group (hereafter referred to as "learning skills") have been CANCELLED. They're really not much use in the long run, we don't want to complicate later steps with unusual inflows of skillbooks, and it might go some way towards limiting the amount of scams that we know you're going to be running. Please, think of the children newbies. FURTHERMORE, as of a patch which should arrive on (or about) the 14th of December:
ALL LEARNING SKILLS WILL DISAPPEAR We're not kidding. In your head, in your hangar or in your anything else, they're gone. Vamoosh. Deleted. Sent to the big recycle bin in the sky. Etc etc. All skillpoints invested in learning skills will be reimbursed, including all the fiddly corner cases. If you have 2,012,692 SP in learning, you will find yourself down those skills, but with 2,012,692 skillpoints to redistribute. All skillbooks not currently injected into people's heads will be reimbursed at the old NPC sell price. The money will go to whichever character or corporation owns the container that the skillbooks are in. For example, things in cans you've anchored for yourself will be reimbursed to you, things in corporate hangar arrays or the "deliveries" bin will be reimbursed to the owning corporation. This will also involve cancelling any and all market orders containing these skills. Contracts containing learning skills will have those skillbooks substituted for copies of the Pax Amarria. All new and existing characters will have an extra 12 base points (ie, non-remappable) in each attribute. The 100% training speed bonus up to 1.6m SP will no longer be available. People partway through this bonus will lose the remaining bonus amount. They will of course gain a huge attribute bonus to make up for it. Miscellaneous other cleanup tasks will be performed that are not very interesting, details available on request.
The only thing going away at downtime is the seeded books. The bonus is in till "a patch which should arrive on (or about) the 14th of December"
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Prophet Rising
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:30:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Borun Tal on 25/11/2010 22:29:58
Originally by: Biocross --snippage--
Ah, you're quite right. I misinterpreted what was happening tonight vs next month. I stand corrected, and thanks! :)
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Biocross
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Posted - 2010.11.25 22:36:00 -
[867]
No problem, I myself will be flying my newly skilled Legion after the change ;)
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Ytec
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Posted - 2010.11.25 23:44:00 -
[868]
Hi!
I read about this change in the developer blog but I really don't understand why they are taking away the learning skills. So, why are they doing that? And will everyone have the same amount of attribute points after this upcoming update? And I can't really say that I understand the graphs in the blog post. Like, what is TQ?
//Daniel
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.26 00:09:00 -
[869]
Edited by: Boinz on 26/11/2010 00:08:58
Originally by: Ytec Hi!
I read about this change in the developer blog but I really don't understand why they are taking away the learning skills. So, why are they doing that? And will everyone have the same amount of attribute points after this upcoming update? And I can't really say that I understand the graphs in the blog post. Like, what is TQ?
//Daniel
TQ = tranquility yes everyone will have the same amount of attribute points. I dont know why they are doing it but its pretty obvious imo, Its an annoying game feature which turned a lot of people away from the game. And they said that they themselves regret implementing it.
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.26 06:23:00 -
[870]
Originally by: Ytec I read about this change in the developer blog but I really don't understand why they are taking away the learning skills. So, why are they doing that?
Read the first comments in the thread - they're all by CCP Devs. Perhaps it helps you to understand.
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