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Fact Foreman
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Posted - 2010.07.01 12:12:00 -
[181]
What an stupid idea, shame that ccp runs to the hills same second new players (noobs) start crying enuff I did spend allong time to train this and i do not see how it can be fair that its remowed to boost noobs in the game so they get better start, why did i then not get better start ? if i would and would have flown a BS sooner or better mining ship it would have made me more isk, so, is ccp gona ballance that isk allso to old players vs noobs ?
I do not see the reason to do this and if ppl wana be hi skilled, THEN PLAY FROM BEGINNING and do not come 7 years later crying cause its not ballanced, guess what, LIFE IS NOT BALANCED.
Make those changes and at same time i promisse ccp, i will start noob chars on all my acounts and make them all bs able ias fast as i can, **** insurance as i have the isk. I will use all those chars to undock and start smartbombs at hub systems and such, when theyr - sec stat is to bad its simple. I trash char and make a new one with 4-5 mill start SP that is enuff to fly another armageddon and afk disco it, and again and again, or just untill isk finished ( in 2 years) and then quit eve.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.01 12:13:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Khun SP This is the sux...
You want EVE to become the new WOW???
On this game you need a BRAIN, to decide whether train learning skills or not, and many other decissions. Depending on how wise you were, you become succesful or not.
Kill learning skills and you will kill a key decission question for EVE players.
Yes always tough decission, you have to train them, but training them is stupid and doesnt add anything to the game and only removes fun.
Anyone who thinks learning skills are intelectually challenging probably also thinks deciding which M&Ms to eat first is challenging.
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Fact Foreman
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Posted - 2010.07.01 12:25:00 -
[183]
"Anyone who thinks learning skills are intelectually challenging probably also thinks deciding which M&Ms to eat first is challenging."
It is, to leave the brovn one as theyr not the same taste.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.07.01 13:05:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Placebo Addict Proper use of learning skills allows the intelligent to stand out in the crowd.
Removal of learning skills is a wholeheartedly foolish idea.
And knowing how to fit and fly the ship, follow FC commands, being in fleet when you could be grubbing isk, is no longer the best reason to stand out in a crowd? Why the **** should superfluous skills, such as learning skills have anything to do with how you stand out in a fleet or in your corp/alliance?
The only difference learning skills really make, in the beginning, is they allow vets to skill their alts faster then a new player starting the game at the same time.
Also, a majority of the words that get filtered through new players heads are, 'train the learning skills as fast as possible' and 'train them as you feel inclined to train them', that is horrible in the sense of new player retention. If you do not see that you are nothing but a jaded mmo vet.
Originally by: Bryg Philomena
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Gariuys Probably not gonna happen, although I don't think it would be that bad a change really. But I am quite interested in why they implemented something like this. I doubt it was hard to do, but I als doubt that this was done purely to give us SP for the downtime.
The ability to replace skillpoints after CCP decides to remove them is, at the least, the second best reason to develop such a system. That or they are going to allow SP microtransactions
Slade
Perhaps it was in place before, possibly in the event of a bug removing SP?
In a later post I siad my list was not exhaustive
Originally by: Furb Killer
Anyone who thinks learning skills are intelectually challenging probably also thinks deciding which M&Ms to eat first is challenging.
and exactly.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.01 13:47:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Fact Foreman "Anyone who thinks learning skills are intelectually challenging probably also thinks deciding which M&Ms to eat first is challenging."
Exactly. Does the spreadsheet mob feel threatened or what?
In the end nobody has anything to fear. Rookies don't get any "advantage", they get the learning skills for free - and so do you. As it looks now you'll get those few million SP worth a month of training or more restituted to use on everything you want.
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Anslo
Disciples of Night DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.07.01 13:47:00 -
[186]
Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
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Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:08:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
Octoven
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:19:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
I really hope your being sarcastic because had you bothered to even look at the other 6 pages that statement would be idiotic in itself.....if you are being sarcastic kudos lol.
Now to everyone else, poeple are so ****ed and saying you need to sacrifice time to get results...that is true but why should you sacrifice time in order to sacrifice time a little later a bit faster to get results? It is easy to see what is going on here, vet players have had this "high pedestal" position above noobs and the idea of noobs being able to train just as fast as them scare the hell out of them. Eve is dark, dank, evil, cold....yes it should be but thats after you get your toes wet. THIS is why noobs start in high sec and not 0.0 we just don't throw new players to the sharks...oh wait the learning skills do that sorry.
New players need to feel accomplished in what they do or they quit plain and simple. Now every single one of you vet players have no reason to *****. When YOU started eve you had 800K preset skills based towards what you wanted to do like fight or mine, you could basically start that career out of the box which gave you time to train learning skills. If you didn't like that career you simply trashed the toon and rolled another. The new players of today don't have that option they don't get 800K of free sp to start with. They don't get hardly any SP to start with. The time bonus helps yes but in the end they still have to train for a period of time and not have those skills at instant disposal such as allocation. So in the end they have no skills to even start the gameplay with PLUS they have to be training learning skills at the same time. Its a wonder we have retained any new players since they changed it.
Next time you vet players want to ***** think about that and realize you never had to choose between career skills and learning skills because you already had a significant amount of skills at hand, and if you happened to choose the wrong skill set you could always choose another in 10 hours. We arn't making a cry for noobs we aren't saying your time training skills is worthless, we are saying that noobs today do have it a bit harder then noobs of the past. I will tell you though that 100% time bonus means **** next to 800K instant SPs. We aren't trying to make the game easier for them but we are trying to make it a bit more fair and on an equal playing field as you. Soo....either give them 800K allocated SPs and leave the learning skills or take the learning skills out but NO ONE who created a toon before apoc needs to ***** because you had it easy in comparison.
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Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:30:00 -
[189]
I really don't get why people would be against this, it's a good solution.
CCP know learning skills were a mistake, they've admitted it on multiple occasions. Tuesdays patch shows it's possible to add a pool of skillpoints for people to distribute, you think they wrote that just because of last weeks server downtime?
It would effectively give everyone the equivalent of max learning skills and give those of us with max learning skills get the sp back to put somewhere else, who can complain about that?
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:38:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Deizel Disclaimer: I do not work for CCP, nor do I have any insider information; this is my personal opinion only.
Edited the bulk of your post to reflect this.
Originally by: Deizel Soon enough (I should think), there will be a Dev Blog describing why and how Learning Skills will be removed from the game possibly.
This could result in:
1) All characters will receive an additional +10 points for each attribute (same as max attribute learning skills) 2) All skill training will be 10% faster (same as "Learning" skill effect) 3) Skillpoints that were formerly under "Learning Skills" will become "unallocated Skillpoints" (out of fairness to those who trained those skills)
Further changes:
4) New characters will get 900,000 Skillpoints to allocate instantly as they like (to make characters more useful as well as more specialized right from the start)
Disclaimer: I am a jackass
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Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Tragic smelting accidents.
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Th0rG0d
Omnimodus Operandi
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:39:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Octoven
When YOU started eve you had 800K preset skills based towards what you wanted to do like fight or mine... They don't get hardly any SP to start with. The time bonus helps yes but in the end they still have to train for a period of time and not have those skills at instant disposal such as allocation. So in the end they have no skills to even start the gameplay with PLUS they have to be training learning skills at the same time. Its a wonder we have retained any new players since they changed it.
I will tell you though that 100% time bonus means **** next to 800K instant SPs. We aren't trying to make the game easier for them but we are trying to make it a bit more fair and on an equal playing field as you. Soo....either give them 800K allocated SPs and leave the learning skills or take the learning skills out but NO ONE who created a toon before apoc needs to ***** because you had it easy in comparison.
WOW! You have no idea what you are talking about. Many vets started long before you started with 900k sp. You used to start with none, or 25k or something.
The 100% bonus to 1.6M sp is far superior to the 900k that you got to randomly allocated skills based on your bloodline/race. Now you can train all the learning skills you need well within the 1.6M you get, and get a boost to training right from the get go.
You sir, need to be sure you have the facts before you open your mouth again.
Adrift in New Eden |
Jeremiah Tameri
Azon Consortium
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:41:00 -
[192]
Learning skills should be removed, there's no valid reason why they should be kept in the game, they are just wasting time that could be spent on skilling up stuff that actually makes a difference to the players experience, especially for new players - do you know how crap it is waiting days for learning skills to get to decent levels when there's so many other things that need to be done?
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:44:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Plave Okice I really don't get why people would be against this, it's a good solution.
CCP know learning skills were a mistake, they've admitted it on multiple occasions. Tuesdays patch shows it's possible to add a pool of skillpoints for people to distribute, you think they wrote that just because of last weeks server downtime?
It would effectively give everyone the equivalent of max learning skills and give those of us with max learning skills get the sp back to put somewhere else, who can complain about that?
This ^^ Nothing more needs to be said, close the thread.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:45:00 -
[194]
Originally by: T***G0d
The 100% bonus to 1.6M sp is far superior to the 900k that you got to randomly allocated skills based on your bloodline/race.
Naw dude, some of us liked making instant-use research alts.
Race > Any Gender > Any Bloodline > Achura or Deteis Inventors Engineer
Etc
Free 800k alt with research skills. -----
Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Tragic smelting accidents.
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Octoven
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:46:00 -
[195]
Originally by: T***G0d
Originally by: Octoven
When YOU started eve you had 800K preset skills based towards what you wanted to do like fight or mine... They don't get hardly any SP to start with. The time bonus helps yes but in the end they still have to train for a period of time and not have those skills at instant disposal such as allocation. So in the end they have no skills to even start the gameplay with PLUS they have to be training learning skills at the same time. Its a wonder we have retained any new players since they changed it.
I will tell you though that 100% time bonus means **** next to 800K instant SPs. We aren't trying to make the game easier for them but we are trying to make it a bit more fair and on an equal playing field as you. Soo....either give them 800K allocated SPs and leave the learning skills or take the learning skills out but NO ONE who created a toon before apoc needs to ***** because you had it easy in comparison.
WOW! You have no idea what you are talking about. Many vets started long before you started with 900k sp. You used to start with none, or 25k or something.
The 100% bonus to 1.6M sp is far superior to the 900k that you got to randomly allocated skills based on your bloodline/race. Now you can train all the learning skills you need well within the 1.6M you get, and get a boost to training right from the get go.
You sir, need to be sure you have the facts before you open your mouth again.
You sir need to realize that training bonus means **** next to instant skills which was the point of that post....read between the lines before you open YOUR mouth again.
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Roshin Lokel
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:53:00 -
[196]
Ya know, this new skill allocation system wasn't put in here by accident...CCP had something up their sleeve even had the servers not been off for 30 hours. I knew that "We are giving you SP for the time you lost during DT" wasn't actually free....something was going to have to be paid. The system is now setup to start toons with as many SP as CCP deems AND remove the learning skills while giving back the SP older players have trained. So yeah its only a matter of time before learning skills are removed...sorry older fellows but I think CCP is for real with this idea.
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:56:00 -
[197]
The blah blah about the past isn't really relevant, what's important that:
1. CCP stated they regret the introduction of learning skills; 2. They said they're looking for ways to remove them while not hurting the existing playerbase (in fact they even mentioned the SP return in the video, saying it would be quite a challenge for the programmers) 3. They have now succesfully made a way to reimburse skillpoints 4. ?? 5. Profit!
I don't see any valid argument for keeping them. After all the invested SP will be returned to you - so what exactly IS the problem??!?!
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Hemp Invader
GK inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:59:00 -
[198]
Can i get my learning SP's back please...like now? Pls CCP pls.
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Jasdiva
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:10:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring The blah blah about the past isn't really relevant, what's important that:
1. CCP stated they regret the introduction of learning skills; 2. They said they're looking for ways to remove them while not hurting the existing playerbase (in fact they even mentioned the SP return in the video, saying it would be quite a challenge for the programmers) 3. They have now succesfully made a way to reimburse skillpoints 4. ?? 5. Profit!
I don't see any valid argument for keeping them. After all the invested SP will be returned to you - so what exactly IS the problem??!?!
The idiotic vets think they will be disadvantaged or something. lulz
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:30:00 -
[200]
I'm all for removing learning skills, they add nothing to the game other than the noob tip: Train them early on. And a possible sci-fi feeling (which I did not experience). It's not like training learning skills is a choice either.
If there was a case like this: You are aiming for a carrier or such and learning skills would only be affecting such paths. Then I would see a reason but right now its a general given that everyone has learning skills trained to a sufficient level.
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Fenris Ulfur
Bio Material Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:33:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 01/07/2010 15:33:44
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
Learn how to write, tough guy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "But rather than that you question my courage, let someone put his hand in my mouth as a pledge that this is done in good faith" |
Jasdemi
Caldari Caldari Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:36:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 01/07/2010 15:33:44
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
Learn how to write, tough guy.
no u
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS! |
AlPuma
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:36:00 -
[203]
Not bad idea ;)
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WittyName Here
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:48:00 -
[204]
Edited by: WittyName Here on 01/07/2010 15:50:41
Originally by: Khun SP Edited by: Khun SP on 01/07/2010 12:13:23 This is the sux...
You want EVE to become the new WOW???
On this game you need a BRAIN, to decide whether train learning skills or not, and many other decissions. Depending on how wise you were, you become succesful or not.
Kill learning skills and you will kill a key decission question for EVE players.
P.S. are they removing attribute implants aswell? that would be the awesome lulzors.. at least this change would imply a bigger will to do PvP...
Are you thick? Based on your post, you imply that after learning skills, there are no important decisions to make regarding training skills.
As someone mentioned a few posts above you:
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 01/07/2010 10:57:41 As with the current training speed - even with +5 implants and learning skills to V - it still takes 30 years for all skills. I think we should get rid of learning skills. Better still: increase learning speed to 4,000 SP/hr max. Games shouldn't require a 10 year investment to be able to get to "the top stuff". It's just a hobby, not work!
Are you telling me that between those years of training until you max all your skills (if you ever do, mind), you don't have to make any more important decisions regarding training skills?
Are you that ****ing stupid?
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Fenris Ulfur
Bio Material Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:48:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 01/07/2010 15:48:37
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 01/07/2010 15:33:44
Originally by: Jasdemi
Originally by: Anslo Yes please remove learning skills so we can all take 10 times longer to train our crap CCP! :D....idiots.
L2read the OP post, noob.
Learn how to write, tough guy.
no u
That just proves my point.
Regarding the issue at hand; I would love to redistribute the skill points that went into my learning skills for something more useful, given that the attribute requirements on skills were lowered (which in turn would mean more skill points to redistribute since the times would be shorter now). I wouldn't want every character in EVE to have the same amount of attributes since having the option of maximizing the attributes for a certain training regime makes the whole skill side of the game much more dynamic in my opinion --------------------------------------------------------------------- "But rather than that you question my courage, let someone put his hand in my mouth as a pledge that this is done in good faith" |
Nisanthro
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Posted - 2010.07.01 16:21:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: Jackie Fisher
My personal prediction is that CCP will remove the SPs of anyone that starts yet another thread on the removal of leaning skills/selling SPs/SP reallocation and distribute them amongst the rest of the player base.
+1
+1
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Jekyl Eraser
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Posted - 2010.07.01 16:40:00 -
[207]
Only reason to keep learning skills is because i've trained all but charisma to 5... so i'm gaining more SP than the average eve player(with 4/4 or 5/4) which in turn is giving me upper hand on fights in future.
anyway I'm for allowing players to reallocate the SP placed into learning skils and giving everyone same stats.
It's stupid telling nub to afk and learn to learn first few weeks. It's only few weeks but it's the weeks player is most enthusiasted, interested and addicted into a game you shouldn't hold him back...
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Eli Porter
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Posted - 2010.07.01 16:55:00 -
[208]
I would be ok with this, actually.
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.07.01 17:30:00 -
[209]
So after taking out these skills and giving everyone free +10 attributes, what's next? Hey +5 implants are really expensive and a noob can't afford them, not to mention that pesky cybernetics 5. Why don't we just remove them all and give everyone an extra +5 also? Hey, I'm a noob and I can't be bothered to train gunnery skills. I MUST train them before I can do anything fun (shoot stuff) so why should they be required? Noobs should start with small racial turret and supports at 5.
Where does it stop? All I see in these threads is people looking for a handout.
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Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2010.07.01 17:39:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Jekyl Eraser
It's stupid telling nub to afk and learn to learn first few weeks. It's only few weeks but it's the weeks player is most enthusiasted, interested and addicted into a game you shouldn't hold him back...
this. i got a friend into this recently and all he can do is afk and wait for learning skills to finish til he can pvp.
worst system ever. id love to re-allocate my learning sp. implants should be made to have more powerful properties because of this. i do not think a straight +10 to everyones attributes is a good idea, because that removes any meaning behind the attribute system at all. it is an interesting, archaeic system that many of us old vets do enjoy, and we'd still like to have a way to work the system, but we also understand that learning skills in particular are an enormous roadblock in the way of the eve online newb, and as such, needs to be removed for the game to continue its upward trend of popularity.
TLDR: remove learning skills, make implants more important and less expensive at the lower end, make cybernetics more important, do not give +10 attributes to everyone, and CCP will see significantly increased new player retention rates.
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