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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:12:00 -
[61]
How much isk invested? Not enough
How much profits? Quite a lot |
Emporer Norton
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Posted - 2010.07.06 15:10:00 -
[62]
I wish I had more isk when tyranis 1st came out or noticed that you could reprocess stuff sooner I'd say I made over 3 billion isk from pi stuff
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Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.06 15:50:00 -
[63]
Frankly, POSs don't generate enough demand to warrant everybody doing PI. Hell, I'd say they don't generate enough demand to warrant ANYBODY doing PI!
There should be more (i.e. new) uses for PI end products.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.06 16:24:00 -
[64]
All this talk about integrity and what not is really not relevant to this thread, yes? So why don't we get back to things that are relevant like the viability and economics of Planetary Infrastructure itself. I offer this for discussion: LinkageThe numbers are roughly the same for three of my PI colonies. The black arrows represent normal traffic, red arrows when the traffic feeds back through the same link. I've not done much of the maths yet mind you, still just playing with it all (New Toy Factor). But, here's something of a case in study that can be debated.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
lacal
Minmatar Vir Honns Lackeys
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Posted - 2010.07.06 19:26:00 -
[65]
Edited by: lacal on 06/07/2010 19:28:47 Edited by: lacal on 06/07/2010 19:26:44
Originally by: Shar Tegral
All this talk about integrity and what not is really not relevant to this thread, yes? So why don't we get back to things that are relevant like the viability and economics of Planetary Infrastructure itself. I offer this for discussion: LinkageThe numbers are roughly the same for three of my PI colonies. The black arrows represent normal traffic, red arrows when the traffic feeds back through the same link. I've not done much of the maths yet mind you, still just playing with it all (New Toy Factor). But, here's something of a case in study that can be debated.
A screen grab would help me see what's going on, along with your diagram that is......
If your end goal is to produce Coolant why do you have a skew in the p1's you are making? Also you really don't need storage, much more efficient to route everything through your spaceport.
What level CC are you using and what level of cycle time are you comfortable doing i.e. every 23 hours, 2*5 hour per day or 3*5 hour per day?
I've got your extraction rates so with the above info I should be able to make a more profitable planet suggestion.....
edit - I keep calling it profit when its not really, its income, and I mean a more efficient planet to generate more income
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Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.07 06:04:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Drab Cane on 07/07/2010 06:05:02 Still playing with this PI stuff. Took quite a while for me to settle on which products to build and how to arrange the mfg flow. I'm averaging around two (2) 5-hour cycles per day, and expect to average 20-30 mil per week net income. I'm just doing extraction and production, no trade. Most sales are through sell orders.
Prices keep fluctuating, this last week it was more profitable for me to sell P1 and P2 items than it was to build and sell my P3 items, much less the P4 item.
Initial investment was 77 million, I'll break even this week.
I've maxed out most of the five planets I've colonized. -----------------------------------------------
- Who Dares, Wins
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.07.07 06:45:00 -
[67]
Well for the reprocessing angle I snared about 50 million and paid for 150 million in blue prints.
Currently I'm projecting 200 million a month profit if the market holds.
Also at Eve-Metrics moving prices, it costs 33 million to build a Small Tower and 38 million to build a mobile lab.
I am grateful I don't have a dozen Large Towers for sale in Jita right now.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: lacal A screen grab would help me see what's going on, along with your diagram that is......
Yeah but then I'd have to scratch out location details and all that. I created that flow chart for another purpose, no sense not using it here. Originally by: lacal If your end goal is to produce Coolant why do you have a skew in the p1's you are making? Also you really don't need storage, much more efficient to route everything through your spaceport.
My end goal on this(these) planets is the production of coolant. However with the power grid I have left I can not bring about a third advanced processor chain. Electrolytes are extremely useful in other applications and on other planets. So while I have these low sec Storms going, I'm making hay. I could replace storage with an extractor however the diagram doesn't show it but the "water" segment is at the end of a long link. I can not get 4 water extractors to pump through one long link without the need to upgrade it. Upgrade cost is almost the same cost as a storage facility. Ironically, if I send all 4 extractors to a storage facility and then have the storage routed to the processors, it works without coming close to needing an upgrade. Why? Because through that link is only drawn as much as two processors need. If I do it the other way, all 4 push through one link at the same time. I also have some programming logic tendencies. (Error trapping/buffering 4tw) Originally by: lacal What level CC are you using and what level of cycle time are you comfortable doing i.e. every 23 hours, 2*5 hour per day or 3*5 hour per day?
Two part question, two answers: Elite command center and I've just about maxed out power grid with that diagram. Even doing layout in a "dense pack" I can't eke out much more than is listed in the diagram. 24 buildings seems to be about the max really though I'm sure 26 - 28 is possible if you are working a Hi Sec world. (More extractors needed - less pg used) I specified my time frames in another thread but I usually do 4 * 30 min + 2 * 5 hr per day. Of course I think CCP could give us some sort of "redo last commands" button to reduce the clickfesting. Make the CC actually useful somehow by adding that function. Also, don't need the "amount" report with every survey - over and over and over again - where you could just pick the time frame and move to the next. I will confess that I've not made the most efficient plan, I think. However given the vagaries of resource location linkage lengths will be a primary source of entropy that can not be planned for or avoided.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.07 15:15:00 -
[69]
I also thought that I should add this:
People sometimes get caught up in maximizing efficiency without realizing that sometimes good enough is actually good enough.
As an example: Most days I can leave Eve running the background while I work. So I tend to do 30 minute jobs even though I know that I might not be able to reset it for up to 2 - 3 hours later.
Some people would complain about the opportunity loss for those hours I did not reset the 30 minute timer. I see it as a 2 - 3 hour job with twice the return of a 5 hour job.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
lacal
Minmatar Vir Honns Lackeys
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Posted - 2010.07.07 16:38:00 -
[70]
Edited by: lacal on 07/07/2010 16:40:28 Edited by: lacal on 07/07/2010 16:38:39
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I also thought that I should add this:
People sometimes get caught up in maximizing efficiency without realizing that sometimes good enough is actually good enough.
As an example: Most days I can leave Eve running the background while I work. So I tend to do 30 minute jobs even though I know that I might not be able to reset it for up to 2 - 3 hours later.
Some people would complain about the opportunity loss for those hours I did not reset the 30 minute timer. I see it as a 2 - 3 hour job with twice the return of a 5 hour job.
Well I've had a mess about with your numbers and your spot on - no way to get 3 chains making coolant, even dropping the storage
The one thing I would say, is that either I'm really bad at maths, or your clicking a whole lot more than you need to.....
Four 30 minute extractions works out a goodly amount less (raw mats) than one 5 hour extraction, from all the samples I've looked at, you need to be running 6 or more 30 minute cycles within a 5 hour period to be 'better off'
I would suggest moving to three 5 hour extractions, you'll pull more P0, with the side benefit that the m3 per hour down your extractor links is slightly less, so depending on the planet you may be able to save some PG.
(coincidently if you do have a long link to a group of extractors and 1 base link doesn't cut it then its cheaper on PG to put down two long base links than upgrade your existing link, the opposite is true for short links however!)
Anyway here's a linkie to one of my high sec coolant planets - using an Advanced CC and includes an extractor survey for comparison purposes. (needs 3 * 5 hour extractions per day to keep running 24/7)
Coolant Storm Planet
Puts out the same 10 coolant per hour as your low sec planet - which is why I was hoping I could get yours to 15 per hour being in low sec with an Elite CC
I'll paste my 'notepad' maths below, but I figure (with your current set up) your an aqueous extractor short of being able to produce coolant 24/7 and an Ionic extractor short of keeping your third electrolyte BIF going 24/7....
Shars Coolant Planet without storage
Extraction per extractor
30 min ionic 3000
30 min aqueous 3750
5 hour ionic 17000
5 hour aqueous 20000
23 PINS
1 CC 1 Spaceport 2 * Electrolyte BIF 2 * Water BIF 2 * Coolant AIF
BIF's need 3000 every 30 mins = 48000 per 8 hours
so 96,000 aqueous and 96,000 ionic per 8 hours (as 2 BIF's per material)
5 aqueous extractors = 100,000 (5 hour cycle) 6 ionic extractors = 102,000 (5 hour cycle)
11 * Extractors
4 spare PINS
3 * Ionic extractor = 51,000 (just enough to keep one last Electrolyte BIF going 24/7)
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.07.07 16:45:00 -
[71]
How long do you see yourself doing PI shar?
I had a very profitable planet grouping in my wormhole, and had a lot of fun setting everything up. However, after about 2 weeks of restarting extractors (and I was only doing it 1x per day!) I'd had enough and tore them all down. I might set some up again someday, but the thought of restarting extractors every 30 minutes or 5 hours makes gouging my eyes out sound fun.
My setup btw (2 oceanic 2 temperate 3 barren, 4/4 skills):
lazy setup: 2 oceanic made gen enhanced livestock, 3 barren made biocells. 9 extractors, 6 BIF, 3 AIF, + 3 storage/launchpad (couldn't make another chain so extra storage for different buffer locations worked well).
Less lazy setup: 2 oceanic planets were pure extraction, so 11 extractors powered 8 BIFs. Then the 2 temperates + 1 barren extracted the local P1 and combined with the imported biomass from the oceanic planets to keep a total of 16 AIF running full time (6 + 5 gen enhanced, 5 viral on the barren).
Decent isk I guess, but they really need to get some sort of group extractor activation before I'd ever consider doing it for real.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.07 16:58:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran How long do you see yourself doing PI shar?
I honestly don't know. Whenever CCP brings out something new, I adopt it. Without actually trying it I don't know if it is worthwhile or fun even. The other side of it is that I hate speaking of that which I know nothing. Since this does impact the economic side of the game, best I know something.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
lacal
Minmatar Vir Honns Lackeys
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Posted - 2010.07.07 18:18:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran How long do Without actually trying ityou see yourself doing PI shar?
I don't know if it is worthwhile or fun even.
Unfortunately the fun bit is in setting up the planets, after that it is not fun, but can tend towards worthwhile!
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Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.07.07 19:27:00 -
[74]
I currently am producing 12 organic mortar applicators per day, at about 800k each. decent passive income for something I have to spend about 20 minutes per day doing. the hard part will be hauling them from nullsec.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.07 19:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Terbulus I currently am producing 12 organic mortar applicators per day, at about 800k each. decent passive income for something I have to spend about 20 minutes per day doing. the hard part will be hauling them from nullsec.
Personally I'd hold those wait for the price to change. Really 12 units a day is only 288mil a month. That seems a little too low for the effort. I mean it is good passive sure but with Robotics and Coolant making these things up, I'd hold for a little longer.
Amarr for Life |
Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.07.07 19:54:00 -
[76]
agreed, they are stockpiling in my home station while I wait for prices to settle. also while I train up for blockade runners to haul them.
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