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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:34:00 -
[1]
Ingame shot changing implant sets at a SMA:
Hi I am Col Cacahuetes. I am a lead researcher for the Ishukone Corporation. I am proud to release the current information sheet on our latest offering to capsuleers. We would love to hear your input, especially from wspace residents and advanced players. Please see the information thread here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346554&page=1
Kind regards.
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:44:00 -
[2]
Isn't this crosspoasting?
Also, you're not a representative of Ishukone.. You're an imposter!
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Simeon Tor Isn't this crosspoasting?
Also, you're not a representative of Ishukone.. You're an imposter!
I am an agent for good trying to release technology ideas that will benefit capsuleers of all occupations. Also now hiding from the posting police for alleged crossposting crimes. Fight the power!
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:53:00 -
[4]
I'd buy that for a dollar!
(Also, linkify your images you inconsiderate %*!@@)#%!)
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
I am an agent for good trying to release technology ideas that will benefit capsuleers of all occupations. Also now hiding from the posting police for alleged crossposting crimes. Fight the power!
Yes, thats very nice but it is crossposting.
Roleplayers ¼_¼
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 03/07/2010 14:22:24
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
Originally by: Simeon Tor Isn't this crosspoasting?
Also, you're not a representative of Ishukone.. You're an imposter!
I am an agent for good trying to release technology ideas that will benefit capsuleers of all occupations.
Yes. By encouraging people to hotswap implants on a per-fight basis, or even switch out of implants in order to pod themselves for the bounty on their heads (Furthering an existing "exploit-but-not-really"'s existence.)
Removing risk is something we aren't fans of in this game; if you ignore the bleeting sheep on the forum anyway. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 03/07/2010 14:22:24
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
Originally by: Simeon Tor Isn't this crosspoasting?
Also, you're not a representative of Ishukone.. You're an imposter!
I am an agent for good trying to release technology ideas that will benefit capsuleers of all occupations.
Yes. By encouraging people to hotswap implants on a per-fight basis, or even switch out of implants in order to pod themselves for the bounty on their heads (Furthering an existing "exploit-but-not-really"'s existence.)
Removing risk is something we aren't fans of in this game; if you ignore the bleeting sheep on the forum anyway.
You can -hotswap- ships and modules at a station, why not clones? Especially implants that affect the ship you want to now use.
You can already jumpclone to a non-implant clone to be podded for bounties so again there is no difference.
There is no reduction in risk by choosing implants when i fit my ship. Because of the process is the way it is now i do not use multibillion implant sets because i dont wish to be stuck in them for another 23hrs after ive finished the need for them. So instead there is less risk because im never going to loose them because im never going to buy/use them in the first place.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 03/07/2010 14:22:24
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
Originally by: Simeon Tor Isn't this crosspoasting?
Also, you're not a representative of Ishukone.. You're an imposter!
I am an agent for good trying to release technology ideas that will benefit capsuleers of all occupations.
Yes. By encouraging people to hotswap implants on a per-fight basis, or even switch out of implants in order to pod themselves for the bounty on their heads (Furthering an existing "exploit-but-not-really"'s existence.)
Removing risk is something we aren't fans of in this game; if you ignore the bleeting sheep on the forum anyway.
You can -hotswap- ships and modules at a station, why not clones? Especially implants that affect the ship you want to now use.
You can already jumpclone to a non-implant clone to be podded for bounties so again there is no difference.
There is no reduction in risk by choosing implants when i fit my ship. Because of the process is the way it is now i do not use multibillion implant sets because i dont wish to be stuck in them for another 23hrs after ive finished the need for them. So instead there is less risk because im never going to loose them because im never going to buy/use them in the first place.
Because Implants are not Ships, neither are they Modules, and the whole intention of them is that they are costly, you lose them when unplugging to deter people hotswapping them, and that the choices you make with implants (sort of) matters.
By removing this, you act against the Gods (CCP) and thus you are bordering upon the act of Heresy. You will be held accountable for this heresy, heathen! _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SammyullJackson on 03/07/2010 15:12:17 Wow... you genuinely believe people want this.
You know what, I agree with you. I also want the freedom to swap the rigs (without destruction) on my ships, and hell, swap to whatever ship I own, no matter where it is in relation to where I am. I'd like a lot of things.
But you know what?
[rollingstones]You can't always get what you waannnnt...[/rollingstones]
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Blane Xero Because Implants are not Ships, neither are they Modules, and the whole intention of them is that they are costly, you lose them when unplugging to deter people hotswapping them, and that the choices you make with implants (sort of) matters.
By removing this, you act against the Gods (CCP) and thus you are bordering upon the act of Heresy. You will be held accountable for this heresy, heathen!
Such things were said in the labs when we were first looking at the prospects of this technology. I will reiterate what was said then:
The argument about hotswapping would be an issue if it is performed in combat. This is not however how the technology works, its impossible. Implant racks are sent from datalink via the Ishukone data centre and can only be retrieved and activated via a station or SMA. The way it is now is more a hinderance to potential risk. Implants are things that enhance your ship and well you should be able to use them when.. you want to use that ship. Having to wait 24hrs is not increasing any risk its just preventing it.
Capsuleers would like to use expensive implant sets. They would be using a multibillion probing implant set when they are probing. Another expensive set for their falcon, another one for their tengu. Billions in isk. All ripe for the podding.
The current system especially those in wspace isolated from stations but fighting extremely hostile unknown forces is very bad. Capsuleers are restricted from utilising top technology because of the current jumpclone-implant relationship.
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Lt Expendable
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:15:00 -
[11]
bumpbumpbump daddy likes :D
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Spades Slick
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Spades Slick on 03/07/2010 15:18:20 OP, please post the topic here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=752166
If you didn't know already, it's the "Assembly Hall", where any idea for the game can be proposed, and support can be shown for it in the following posts. With enough support, an idea can be brought up to CCP by the CSM.
I'd like to see how this idea fares in there...
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Seidr
Cruentus Invicta
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Seidr on 03/07/2010 15:26:50 WARNING: I am going to role-play the part of a designer
You used the wrong font.
/ROLEPLAY
Edit: I think this is a bad idea, not only from a risk-reward point of view (you gain the reward of increased shield at the risk that you may lose an expensive Implant set - being able to switch out of this implant set at a POS is a bit..well, too easy), and from an RP point of view. Implants are physical things. If you wanted to hot-swap them, you'd have to hot-swap great big chunks of your clones brain. As more than one clone of the same person cannot reside in the same station at any one time, would you - or any surgeon (bar Sansha) be willing to operate on a LIVE clone in order to remove the old implants, and replace them with the new?
What's that? You can't move your right hand. Sorry, your implant swap has resulted in the penalty of MOVEMENT MINUS EVERYTHING
I can has rp.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:20:00 -
[14]
The idea has more flaws than merits. Hotswapping is not something to be sought, it is something to be avoided; and I am sure the lords will smite this idea from afar when they see fit to slot it into their busy smiting schedule. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Spades Slick Edited by: Spades Slick on 03/07/2010 15:18:20 OP, please post the topic here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=752166
If you didn't know already, it's the "Assembly Hall", where any idea for the game can be proposed, and support can be shown for it in the following posts. With enough support, an idea can be brought up to CCP by the CSM.
I'd like to see how this idea fares in there...
Thank you, wish I found that place before I posted
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.07.03 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Spades Slick Edited by: Spades Slick on 03/07/2010 15:18:20 OP, please post the topic here:
Oh great, so that's three subforums it'll be in.
/dies
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.03 16:14:00 -
[17]
Good, instead of one set of people now three sets of people can laugh at your ******ed ideas.
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.03 19:00:00 -
[18]
Moved to assembly hall at the request of the OP.
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.03 19:07:00 -
[19]
Oh boy, he actually did move it here! Now he can be OFFICIALLY shot down.
Anyways, links to where I've already given my input on the matter:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346554&page=1#19
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346554&page=1#21
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346554&page=1#28
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346554&page=1#30
/not supported in any way, shape, or form.
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.04 01:35:00 -
[20]
Awesome i got moved!
Please consider this.
Wormholes contain the top end content in eve pve. The wormholes this content can have different effects- shield tanking wormholes, armor tanking wormholes. This content at this top level requires group team work. The nature of wormholes also involves scanning, pvp and is isolated from empire.
So you have an environment that is dynamic, shield tank op this wormhole, armour tank the next one, change to scanning ships to find them.
Its endgame eve. You use the best ships. You use the best modules. You work in groups.
You can swap ships, you can reconfigure ships. But to use implants with this top end content is near impossible.
Hence the ultimate reason for the changes. Implants and jumpclones do not scale well with content. For the base/simple user its not an issue. But at this end of the park its messed up.
The suggestions i have made are trying to address this in the most elegant manner possible. Please think of the entire game, i have had lots of posts from people that have probably never seen the inside of wspace. They make generalised catch phrase statements such as 'want it all' 'risk vs reward' 'choices you make' without actually making valid arguments.
One day you people that are not effected so much by this might have multi-skilled characters in wspace running c5/c6 sleepers and you will understand where i am coming from. The implants tied to jumpclone system has some real issues with modern wspace content.
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.07.04 02:29:00 -
[21]
ohhh mai gawd!!!
OK earlier I thought I had found the WORST ****ing idea ever.
This however is even worse! I'm not even going to bother describing why this idea sucks or waste time explaining how this violates about 80 bijillion different elements of CCP/EvE tradition.
HELL NO NOT SUPPORTED!
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.04 03:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Solostrom ohhh mai gawd!!!
OK earlier I thought I had found the WORST ****ing idea ever.
This however is even worse! I'm not even going to bother describing why this idea sucks or waste time explaining how this violates about 80 bijillion different elements of CCP/EvE tradition.
HELL NO NOT SUPPORTED!
I thank you for your detailed point of view. You argue the points well. Can you please answer some simple questions? I am interested in your reply.
How long have you lived in deep wspace? How do you find the ability to swap between your implants in wspace? Do you think that it would be a good thing to use your scanning implants when you want to use your scanning ship? Your shield tanking implants for when you want to use your shield tanking ship? Your armour tanking implants for your armour tanking ship?Do you run sleeper sites? Do you run different {armour/shield} gangs on sleeper sites depending on the wormhole bonuses? Do you even use combat implants? Do you fly more than one ship in a 24hr period?
What is in your opinion the best feature about being stuck in your implants for 24hrs?
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.07.04 11:05:00 -
[23]
Not supported , i want to kill you with your expensive implants in your head an laugh.
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.04 13:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Not supported , i want to kill you with your expensive implants in your head an laugh.
Sigh, another reply with no substance. Did you read any of the thread linked in the OP? Did you read the part where I explain how I would love to actually use the multi-billion isk implants but due to the nature of the 24hr timer it makes it totally impracticable? That the current system actually restricts risk vs reward? Most likely not. If you really did read and actually comprehend it, it would have been nice for you to at the very least explain why the implants tied to 24hr jump clone is good gameplay?
Anyway. Well I have played eve for many years. This the only suggestion I have offered and most likely the only one. Overall i love this game.I am sorry that the particular opponents in my thread fail to realise that the result of this change would mean more risk vs rewards not less.
Despite all the posts I still do not see anyone bringing up any good game play points in implants being tied to a 24hr jump clone timer. There is no GOOD risk vs reward in the current wait 24hr mechanism. The 'risk' is actually rather lame [haha you are now in scanning implants for the next 24hrs because you wanted to use/risk a good scanning ship - is NOT good game play]. It is particularly evident in dynamic wspace and stifles people from using more/better implants.
Being able to use implants that are specific to what you want to do however does provide GOOD game play as well as great risk vs reward potential.
I have wasted enough time trying to explain all this on the forums so i shall retire from my threads and get back to the game. I hope intelligent people can understand the issues and what I am talking about.
Lots of <3 ccp and capsuleers. Eve is an awesome game. Wspace is the bomb. Keep up the good work.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.04 15:16:00 -
[25]
The Assembly Hall is an out-of-character forum. Next time, try something like "Make implant sets separate from jump clones, so that we can switch implants without needing to jump across the galaxy".
And no, not supported.
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Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
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Posted - 2010.07.05 01:31:00 -
[26]
NO
just
NO
Quote: CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.07.05 02:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The Assembly Hall is an out-of-character forum. Next time, try something like "Make implant sets separate from jump clones, so that we can switch implants without needing to jump across the galaxy".
And no, not supported.
^^ This. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.07.05 03:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Col Cacahuetes
The wormholes this content can have different effects- shield tanking wormholes, armor tanking wormholes.
So you have an environment that is dynamic, shield tank op this wormhole, armour tank the next one, change to scanning ships to find them.
Its endgame eve. You use the best ships. You use the best modules. You work in groups.
You can swap ships, you can reconfigure ships. But to use implants with this top end content is near impossible.
Hence the ultimate reason for the changes. Implants and jumpclones do not scale well with content. For the base/simple user its not an issue. But at this end of the park its messed up.
I vote no. You don't need to fit customized implants for every possible scenario when you can: a) use generic implants, b) swap out rigs, c) bring extra or more powerful ships, d) use a bonused ship (such as for scanning) e) don't necessarily have to armor tank a shield unfriendly wormhole.
Is there really any content or scenario that requires the use of highly specialized implants to successfully complete? If not, then allowing for the easy swapping of implants is just a case of one character trying be good at everything at once.
(Yes, I would love the ability to easily and quickly swap out implants, but it's not worth the dev time to work on it. It wouldn't make Even significantly better.)
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Col Cacahuetes
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Posted - 2010.07.05 07:00:00 -
[29]
Thanks for your input :D It is appreciated!
Originally by: stoicfaux You don't need to fit customized implants for every possible scenario.. & ..Is there really any content or scenario that requires the use of highly specialized implants to successfully complete?
That is totally true. But by that reasoning why even have implants that effect ships or skills then? I do not also need dead space or faction gear either but i can use it if i wish. To bring this down to the lowest common set up that would work is shrinking the sandbox.
There are 10 implant slots that can give 10 bonuses to your ships. That is pretty significant. The range of implants and ships, rigs, modules are so varied, they work together. However the implant side of it has both some signficant scalability and accessability issues. You touch on the scalability issues when you stated:
Quote: 'one character trying to be good at everything at once'.
Lets look at this. If my character only flys caldari ships and generally lives in hi sec running missions. I really dont need to swap implant sets ever. If i am a bit more advanced i might also pvp. So i might have a jumpclone with pvp implants in. Or simply a clone with cheaper learning implants. I stay in these setups for perhaps days/weeks. Or a player has a pve character and a pvp character both with separate implants. These people do not suffer any kind of impact from the 24hr jumpclone timer relationship. What inconvience it is minor and is just considered normal way the game is.
On the other end of the scale a player that: has very high SP; can fly many types of ships; is very active and swaps between many ships and roles in a day. This is where the scalability problems come in with the implant system as it currently is. 10 slots of bonuses for those many ships but are stuck on 24hr timers and in jumpclones. While that player can jump from a scanning ship to a pvp ship to a pve ship instantly in station or a sma he cannot do this with the implants that provide bonuses for those ships.
There is no good reason for this. It has the effect as you said:
Quote: a) use generic implants.
That is me right now and the point of my whole posting! :D I am using generic implants. I would like to use lots of good ones. While i will be rewarded with bonuses to my ship/role i also have the risk of loosing those implants and the potentially large sum of isk i spent on them.
Quote: It wouldn't make Even significantly better
Was not mean to change the entire universe heh. However there is more to this. You see this change would actually open up the market more for these exclusive and expensive implants. I personally also think it would see a huge uptake in people using implants because they might see how useful they can be. Learning implants have had a huge impact on the way implants are viewed by players. When you start the game the first implants you will use are learning ones. Most people then attach the idea of risk vs reward in implants is based on loosing your learning implants or not. Eve is a much greater/deeper game than that. Implants are more than learning. They are very much based to your ship and ingame activities.
So then this leads to the accesibility issues. You have great ship, great implants, great modules and a job you need to do for an hour, scanning for a complex say. While you can use your best scanning ship, best implants, best rigs for that hour, you are stuck with your billion dollar scanning implant set for the next 24hrs. I do not see how this is good or makes sense. It stifles the use of implants. It reduces potential risk vs reward.
Quote: it's not worth the dev time to work on it
Its not something you would *drop everything for* but it has merits and should be considered at some point.
Thanks again for taking the time to read, reply and reasons for your vote.
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Tacolina
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tacolina on 06/07/2010 22:12:25 You need to have all implants sets attached to your clone at one time. They still get dstroyed when you remove them and cannot interchange between set racks.
Increased benefits should come with increased risk. I said it before in the other thread and I'll say it again here
Only then will you have an idea worth supporting.
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