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Messoroz
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:08:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:09:10 Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:08:55
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!
I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.
I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?
I make around 1 mil per convoy killed, I have a chain of stations and systems, lets say 3 stations on average in a system and 10 systems. That's 30 mil every hour. Only some breaks to dock up and drop goods but uh the ship doesn't need a tank when your skills up to par on ganking, just cargo expanders :D I am not an alt of the above loser(s)
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:18:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Messoroz Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:09:10 Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:08:55
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!
I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.
I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?
I make around 1 mil per convoy killed, I have a chain of stations and systems, lets say 3 stations on average in a system and 10 systems. That's 30 mil every hour. Only some breaks to dock up and drop goods but uh the ship doesn't need a tank when your skills up to par on ganking, just cargo expanders :D I am not an alt of the above loser(s)
Is this better Goon guy?
P.S. who are you calling a looser alt of mine! (roll with it son, i'll make it worth your while)
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Intercision
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Posted - 2010.07.17 06:14:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 17/07/2010 06:14:44
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!
I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.
I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?
Since I first saw mention by this guy (Patri) of the convoys I've had a fairly new Alt with a Frigate and Hauler combo hitting Caldari and Amarr convoys in Caldari space to check the numbers.
I've seen nothing so far to indicate the success he hints at, but as I don't think I'm using the same equipment this isn't exactly a scientific study. Even so, certain reports do appear to have been wildly inflated.
I don't see these convoys as having any sort of real long term impact on PI but this is just my opinion. They do seem like a good alternative for new players who tired quickly of Level I missions and want something more interactive from PvE.
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Dr Nefarius
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Posted - 2010.07.17 07:14:00 -
[244]
I've given the NPC haulers a go myself, and the profit levels are just pitiful. Highly unlikely people will pick it up as a means to make isk with current PI prices, perhaps if prices spike x3 (which I find unlikely).
There is however still planetary vehicles that will be affected by the drops from enemies abound (1000 units IIRC). It's a P3 with no other role then building P4 for POS production, so demand could possibly be completely met just by theese drops.
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Carthus Sondale
Gallente Power and Water
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Posted - 2010.07.17 07:39:00 -
[245]
I've been toying around with nuking NPC haulers for profit, and while it's true you can make a few million off it, L4 missions are still a lot less risky and more profitable. In the time it took me to find, locate, kill, and pick up loot (with a hauler alt) from the guys, I could've made enough cash to buy three times as much as I got.
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ZeJesus
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Posted - 2010.07.17 08:29:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Dr Nefarius I've given the NPC haulers a go myself, and the profit levels are just pitiful. Highly unlikely people will pick it up as a means to make isk with current PI prices, perhaps if prices spike x3 (which I find unlikely).
There is however still planetary vehicles that will be affected by the drops from enemies abound (1000 units IIRC). It's a P3 with no other role then building P4 for POS production, so demand could possibly be completely met just by theese drops.
Which could also lead to lower P2 demand ofc.
CE will be buried in a few weeks. We're looking at perhaps 1500 ISK / CE at best.
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Thawed Corpse
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Posted - 2010.07.17 08:41:00 -
[247]
Okay, I just sold most all of my PI stuff. The writing was on the wall. I bought a lot from the npcs. Then I started stockpiling P1s, P2s, and a bit of P3s, only to see the prices fall on everything. Every now and then something would rise in price, and then fall again two days later. It is pretty clear where everything is heading.
This will keep up until everyone heads for the exits, and people actually stop doing PI, since it is paying so little. Once that finally happens it will be time to buy again. That time is probably 2 months away.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.07.17 08:58:00 -
[248]
I do not agree that prices fell on everything providing just 2 examples: 1day ago gs-7k each buy orders coolant 7k each buy orders, today gs 8.6, coolant 7.4 Daily bashing may lower prices a bit but longterm the daily5 and 20 avg are still trending up. knowledge is power |
Synth Elleta
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Posted - 2010.07.17 11:02:00 -
[249]
Guidance systems are actually increasing in price again in Jita.
Most PI goods have hit their 20 day moving average and bounced off it, a bullish sign that the overall trend will continue.
The trend is your friend folks. Markets very rarely go straight up, just ride the waves to the top.
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IceFyre S18
Zulu Labs Zulu People
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Posted - 2010.07.17 11:06:00 -
[250]
BUY *** BUY *** BUY *** BUY *** BUY One that got last in the train is jackass! BUY BUUUUY BUY !!!
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.07.17 14:08:00 -
[251]
*flops his big, throbbing mechanical part on the table*
Hey guys, who wants to compare the size of their, ah... stockpile?
This thread is full of bruised egos and fear mongers. The sky is not falling because of convoys, chicken little. No rational person is going to sit there and farm 70 robotics per hour when they can make far better isk for their time elsewhere.
The only way prices for PI goods will continue to fall is if industrialist demand dries up. It could very well happen. Right now, people keep basing their cost scales on the current price of basic PI extracted materials like Noble Metal, Heavy Metal, etc. -- all of which, we must remember, are not set in stone. Most of the higher P3 and P4 stuff is produced at a loss atm, hence this speculative market. Without high demand, what's to say PI won't adjust downward?... especially when considering new factors like macroers or, hell, even convoys if they're sooo big a deal.
Plus, the pos market (major demand) is volatile with prices still crashing since Tyrannis. Some items like Cynosural System Jammers, if you were to produce atm, would be a 40m loss.
Right now, if I had to take a guess (I'm not a manufacturer), the smart industrialists are still burning through their own component stockpiles. Either they bought loads of stuff early at NPC prices or they do PI themselves; whatever the case, both will be exhausted -- one from consumption, the other from... well, exhaustion. Then we'll see how PI prices hold up.
My guess is that they rise as casual PI'ers get bored and stockpiles get sold off, but not nearly as high as some people suggest.
Someone start a major war; get that sleepy pos market moving!
--- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.17 14:34:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Patri Andari
You're right. I suck at this propoganda thing. I could learn a lot from Goons. You guys recruiting?
we're always recruiting, just contract all your stuff to me so I can inspect it to make sure you're not a spy
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.07.17 16:16:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Patri Andari
You're right. I suck at this propoganda thing. I could learn a lot from Goons. You guys recruiting?
we're always recruiting, just contract all your stuff to me so I can inspect it to make sure you're not a spy
I have 7m and a badger, can i join?
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Messoroz
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Posted - 2010.07.17 17:43:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Carthus Sondale I've been toying around with nuking NPC haulers for profit, and while it's true you can make a few million off it, L4 missions are still a lot less risky and more profitable. In the time it took me to find, locate, kill, and pick up loot (with a hauler alt) from the guys, I could've made enough cash to buy three times as much as I got.
Risky? Are you trying to attack the haulers in a Freighter? I can take them all down in a velator with less then 50% damage in shield. Also hauler alt is fail, a battle badger can take them down no problem :D
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Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.07.17 17:49:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Ari Chu on 17/07/2010 17:51:41 Edited by: Ari Chu on 17/07/2010 17:50:47 Edited by: Ari Chu on 17/07/2010 17:49:52 Edited by: Ari Chu on 17/07/2010 17:49:23
Originally by: Emnity Preston Who is to say the economy in Dust will operate on anything like the scales in eve itself?
If your colony cost 10mil to install and produces around 30mil per month (for example) that could be pretty minor space bucks, but pretty major mercenary soldier grunt bucks. Rifles, Grenades and tanks etc could be in the 100-25k boundary in dust itself and maybe a whole band could be hired for 1.5mil per hit etc. Until the scales are unleashed/revealed it will be hard to establish how exactly it integrates, but I'm definitely convinced we dont have the whole picture to speculate on.
Forgetting the first three months, when Dust will be as popular as it is ever likely to be... Here are the questions:
== How long will it take to complete a "mission", including prep time? == How many Mercs will be involved in such a "mission", on average? == How many missions will the average Merc player complete per day?
Let's pretend that the numbers are: 10k daily players, Gangs usually run 25 people, and each player will average one mission per day. That means 400 missions per day total.
If the EVE cost to hire a merc gang was only 5mil - that's a total of 2bil being spent to grief carebears per day... Don't you think that you'd easily be able to find 200 people that are willing to chip in 10mil per day to grief PI colonies? I'm betting the answer is, "easily".
For this reason, the price to hire mercs will be higher than 5 mil.. simply because demand is going to be higher, regardless of what the "cost of living" is to a DUST merc.
Realistically, I expect that DUST equipment will be produced by EVE players and sold to DUST players. This would ensure that whatever the final wages paid to the mercs, it would be balanced by the costs associated with being a merc. ---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.07.17 19:12:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Ari Chu Realistically, I expect that DUST equipment will be produced by EVE players and sold to DUST players. This would ensure that whatever the final wages paid to the mercs, it would be balanced by the costs associated with being a merc.
The expense will likely be micro-transactions (for skill upgrades) through PLEX derived DUST currency.
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Thawed Corpse
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Posted - 2010.07.17 19:46:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Grozen I do not agree that prices fell on everything providing just 2 examples: 1day ago gs-7k each buy orders coolant 7k each buy orders, today gs 8.6, coolant 7.4 Daily bashing may lower prices a bit but longterm the daily5 and 20 avg are still trending up.
Today I'm looking at 5-day moving averages for processed materials (P1s) and 2 were up, the vast majority were down and one or two might have been about even. These lower prices will slowly work their way up the processed goods ladder lowering all prices.
Looking at the P2s, they were admittedly more positive than negative, but that is surely because many people are starting to actually look at their spreadsheets, they quit making these things at a loss, and so there are now shortages. These prices while important do not give the full picture. P2s are still a mixed bag.
Looking at P3s, there are 13 up and 8 down in their 5-day averages, also a good sign. The only problem is that the P3s that rely upon components which were npc sold are the ones that are up, while the P3s that rely upon "player produced" ingredients are edging down. Long term this means that all the prices will head up once the npc stuff is mostly gone, and this in turn will raise the P1 prices. But short term, the lowering of prices on those P3s derived mostly from "player produced" components is troubling.
For now, as long as the basket of P1 prices is falling, you better look out below. I'd recommend a strong buy on everything, once the P1 basket rises for over a week.
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
Section 8 Industries Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 21:16:00 -
[258]
Thanks for crashing the guidance system market you schmuucks (whoever you are) It was at 10k and going to 15k, all was good and it was going to rise to 30k, but nooooo, you had to all sell out at once for a big payout. Signature removed for having inappropriate content. Zymurgist |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.07.17 21:30:00 -
[259]
Lol why so serious?Its useless to delay the inevitable.Its better for gs to get crashed as hard as possible so we can flush out every bit of gs in the stockpiles. knowledge is power |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Section 8 Industries Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 21:44:00 -
[260]
Never! I'm holding on to mine forever that I bought at 300 per unit... until price reaches 30k,..... or 15k. Signature removed for having inappropriate content. Zymurgist |
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MMarlon
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.17 22:21:00 -
[261]
Nice. Unfortunatly for any price increase any should wait for my stash to sell first. Greed is not strong here, 2-7x profit is just fine, and the stash is huge.
Oh, and it was not me bombing the Mech Parts 5 min ago.
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Thawed Corpse
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Posted - 2010.07.18 00:20:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Thawed Corpse on 18/07/2010 00:23:52 Another big sell on GS. Price down to 7300. >_< tsk tsk tsk. That is no way to make hugez profits.
If there are really a trillion isk worth of GS out there, someone just lost over 200B.
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IceFyre S18
Zulu Labs Zulu People
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Posted - 2010.07.18 00:48:00 -
[263]
I think, according on projected prices of all NPC stockpiled goods, there is not such isk in whole EVE to buy them. So, someone (usually bigger group of suckers) will suck the lolyhop short. Yeah, I sense greed strong here.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.07.18 08:54:00 -
[264]
If it ever falls down to 1.5k i'm gonna get truckload more however i don't see that happening. knowledge is power |
MMarlon
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.18 13:15:00 -
[265]
Good. Just put couple of millions very underpriced Mechanical parts on sell. Quick, buy them all, it's a huge profit for you. If all goes well, I'll put more.
Let's see if your words are true, or you all are grannyes with big mouth and strong words.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.07.18 19:26:00 -
[266]
Originally by: MMarlon Good. Just put couple of millions very underpriced Mechanical parts on sell. Quick, buy them all, it's a huge profit for you. If all goes well, I'll put more.
Let's see if your words are true, or you all are grannyes with big mouth and strong words.
M parts have nothing to do with gs.Mp is p2 while gs is p3 item get my point?Mp may have few k to grow more but gs has potential to go to 60k. knowledge is power |
MMarlon
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.18 19:36:00 -
[267]
GS is under way too. Just used this thread as general announcement for all very underpriced PI for great potential for profit.
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Thawed Corpse
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Posted - 2010.07.19 07:20:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Thawed Corpse on 19/07/2010 07:24:03
Originally by: MMarlon GS is under way too. Just used this thread as general announcement for all very underpriced PI for great potential for profit.
Edit: pardon, I see this was posted about 12 hours ago, so I may have missed my selling opportunity, before some other carebear jumped in ahead of me to sell.
Yesterday they fell to 7300 (down day) and today, right now, I see the price at 7150 (down day) so I'm not quite sure how that translates into "under way" unless that is same thing as "under water" or something like that.
Looks like me and a few other noobs to the market who cannot see past the price may have to bail out and sell. GS were my best bet to rise, since they were the lowest price P3... but perhaps 1 trillion isk worth does spoil the market for years.
Before I sell, could someone please manipulate the GS market upward? A few hundred million spent can probably create many billions in paper value, and give me the chance to dump my load of GS for a bit more.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.07.19 07:45:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Thawed Corpse Before I sell, could someone please manipulate the GS market upward? A few hundred million spent can probably create many billions in paper value, and give me the chance to dump my load of GS for a bit more.
If you buy up my superconductors I'll be happy to reinvest in GS.
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MMarlon
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.19 07:47:00 -
[270]
Under way is like waiting to be haul to Jita. NPC Pi stuff is overpriced, everybody have it, consumption is minimal. All this large mouth push-ups alts are on the selling side, begging to sell their poisoned Pi goods. Liquidity on buy side of all NPC goods is horror at best, on sell side you have billions and billions.
All this tells me that it is a balon, nice story with no real value inside.
So I choose to sell, now when the greed is strong so I can sell in peace very underpriced Pi tulips.
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