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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 03:57:00 -
[1]
I'll give you one... Goons purchased many millions of these and their own personal analysis of them they realized it was a poor choice and they want out for as much as they can get. So they come in here post in every PI thread that Guidance Systems are the best investment out there.
I got out of it when they where 8K couldn't be happier, made a fortune, moved onto something else that is actually going somewhere.
All these goons in this forum toting GS's one must ask... WHY? OH YEAH that's right they already said they purchased MILLIONS of them.
It's your own wallet funeral if you get sucked into something that the Goon's want you to do.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:43:00 -
[2]
I have to lower my posts down meet the metal capacity of those talking to me...
I'm damn happy I cash out at 5K, the 4,500 ISK profit I made 550,000 times allowed me to buy a LOT more low price P2/P3 items in which I've turned around and made almost two times as much as I would have made if I had waiting until now to sell my GS's..
See I made 2.5B selling out 5K. I took that 2.5B and turned it into 8B. If I had waited to sell out right now I'd only have made 4B.
So answer this question, would you rather... 4.4B profit? Or 8B??
Yeah, that's what I thought..
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tamir Lenk
u mad?
lol this is what your ultimate comeback? Or is this a literal question? I better answer it just to make sure.. No, not at all, in fact I'm rather jovial right now. Are you mad?
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 05:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: pmchem hey sencnes here you said you made under 1b on GS: "Unlike GS's which I did get in on at the NPC level. The problem is so did everyone else. I'm glad I sold out of my small stock and getting only netted a almost 1B profit while I could because I'll be damned if I had to wait 6 months plus to see a bigger return." http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1349157&page=1#14
but now you're saying you made a lot more than that... wishful thinking? if you didn't make 2.5b off GS I'm guessing you didn't make 8b down the road either.
Keep spinning those tales for the ebank investor report...
When I posted that I didn't include my original purchase. Sorry for not including every aspect of my GS investments. Call my a hypocrite if you like for re-investing into a rising item is not a poor choice.. BUt for your benefit here is my GS investment in detail.
I purchased about 550K of GS's at 418 ISK each. Sold them on the 6.18 for 3.2K that only comes to about 1.5B profit. However a few day later after getting another BIG return on another PI item, I reinvesting into GS's why not at the time it was still too cheap. Purchase another 450,000 units at 3,000 ISK. Turned around and sold em for 5,150, for a sale of 1B (That's the 1B in that post) So sales was 2.5B total. It's actually a 2.6B.
What is misleading about what I just posted in this thread is that 8B profit includes the 1B in GS. So sorry for misleading there, but the statement is still the same. If I didn't sell out I wouldn't have been able to buy other items.
Would I invest into that now? NO FREAKING WAY, there are far better opportunity out there. But a week ago, GS's was a good investment.
All your other brainless Goons, this is PERSONAL INVESTMENT nothing to do with EBANK.. I have more personal ISK then EBANK ISK.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 05:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Priscilla Fancypants So you're saying the 20mil units of guidance I have isn't worth holding onto say 20k unit? Ohdear time to dump now!!!
You're dreaming if you think they'll hit 20K a unit.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 05:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid some other confirmations:
confirming that waiting a year to sell our millions of guidance systems for a 10,000% (27.5%/day) profit will make us very sad
confirming that 100% of your depositors would instantly take a deal under which you would pay them the stated value of their accounts in guidance systems valued at 40,000 isk a unit
confirming that at least one guy ITT could actually make that deal, were he stupid enough to take five impossible to move ME 2 titan BPOs in return for his greatly overvalued guidance systems
confirming that we will be flying titans made out of those BPOs long before Ebank makes enough isk to pay back its depositors around the second Sarah Palin administration
Confirming something in which you have no power over is like taking your foot and shoving it in your mouth
Good read though, worthy of laughing at again.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 15:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno The goons would have made u a fortune had you only had some patience
LOL So goons FINALLY put their money where their mouth was and purchased up the inventory in Jita in an attempt to manipulate this SLOW MOVING market. Good you guys you're starting to think like REAL Marketeers!
Cashflow has no room for patience. Here is a proverb, Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Assuming I DID hold onto my original purchase all this time, I'd have to sell at the same time everyone else is trying to sell for, people with MILLIONS of units. That's not a good market position. You want to know what would make me regret not holding them.. If they where 40K right now.. Why? Because then that would represent profit I could not have obtained doing what I am doing. Hell right now it's barely even 1B ISK more then what I've made off PI overall. But guess what I still have inventory of other PI items and I still haven't reached my full realized profit.
You better hope half of High-sec doesn't jump on the bandwagon and start pumping these things out. Here is a sheet with what I'm capable of producing with a setup using a binary planet setup, in which they all planets produce GS's with minimal logistics. They all produce excess and the excess is moved to the other plants once every few days. Not much logistics since they are all in the same system and a Inty IV can handle it.
I got to tell ya... 600mil for the minimal effort.. That'll keep me in PLEXs for a long time.
PS- I alway re-read before I post just in case.. I too went to bed.. Here is my continuation.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: pmchem The best PI spreadsheet for guiding safe production profits is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar_YTOcXpvb9dGFIdHJlb0VmYXBORWRrcXFkeHNjcWc&hl=en_GB#gid=10
That's a great sheet if you're buying the products... The one I just showed you is not. That's what 4 Planets is capable of producing, 4 Planets I own right now..
Apart from the initial setup cost it wouldn't cost me any ISK to maintain this setup. Just a little bit of my time every couple of days.. For 600+ Mil per month I can handle that.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno People in hi-sec will only start building them if they actually become profitable to produce. At the moment they are not. Assuming most people will only work for a minimum of 10m isk an hour i'd anticipate that GS will continue to go up, however there are still much more profitable prospects out there for those willing to do some research. For those not, almost any and every p3 will turn over a profit. Robotics is on it's way right up.
People are right in saying there is lots of speculation going on, this is obviously because of the massive amounts of potential profits compared to the relatively low risk. I don't see how anyone investing sensible would not be able to at least double their money over the space of a month.
People in high-sec will build them from planets because there is virtually zero cost associated with it, and because maintaining it simple. It also doesn't occupy your time like say... Missioning or Regional Trading. PI is something everyone can do and still continue to do what they would normally do.
So PI is nothing more then a boost to ones wallet. Even a lazy 96 hour extractor cycle turns some ISK and that's as lazy as you can get. It's almost on part with Datacore harvesting. What will happen is people will naturally gravitate toward that which is the biggest profit with effort. At the moment that HAS to be Guidance Systems. If you pick the right planets you can make a good amount of P3's with a little research. If PI was time intense I would agree with you, no point doing something that consumes all your time for pennies, but that's not the case.
Meh it doesn't matter anyway, right now the 18K is depleting fast to 15K in Jita. The thing about toting a market spike as a victory is the market bites back.
Amarr for Life |
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid you are correct; using this calculation, your time is not free. since you are making guidance systems rather than selling the P2s that go into them, assuming the 20K guidance systems that were never happening wind up actually happening tomorrow and their true build cost is 40K, you are paying other people roughly 575m a month to play Guidance Systems Online instead.
but you know that, because you're in charge of the biggest bank in Eve Onlihaahahahhahaha
Wait a second... what?? do you even realize what you just said.. You should stop posting while you think you're ahead because soon you'll realize what you're spewing out and a FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU moment..
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bel Arvardan Wait, do I get this right? Your time is worth ~900k isk/hour?
Why are you guys trying to be pretend to be smarter when you just keep putting your brain on hold..
900K per hour for that particular function. My time per hour is easily worth 100mil maybe more at the rate I'm making ISK. But for this particular function of building GS's my time would only be worth... 900K.
As for selling P2 items for more then the combine P3 items, sure. That's why these planets can produce more then required. But lets face it.. Water cooled CPUs are great right now, and they are easy to make, in large numbers. But Water-Cooled CPUs are only used to make Supercomputers and Guidance Systems. They have no other consumption point, not like Transmitters which DO have other uses.
See the awesomeness of having a binary planet setup is each planet produces more then the possible consumption. It also gives you a natural stop-gap before they get consumed so if the market is better you CAN cash out at that level instead of building the next stage.
What, you think I don't know this LOL. Sorry to disappoint, besides I'm building more profitable items with these planets anyway. Just if I wanted to I could build GS's and make 575mil a month (If they are 18K, which they are not) After all, with this talk about them getting to 40K well.. that's 1.2-1.3B per month profit.. That's highly attractive so setting up to be in that position is a smart thing to do, would you not agree?
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: mechtech This is the single stupidest MD post I have ever read, I hope to god you're drunk.
What, proper time calculation for any given function too much for you to understand or something?
It's pretty simple, this function would get me 600mil per month, how many hours would it take me to get that 600mil? 720. So per hour it's 835K. How many hours does it take for me to maintain that, 15 hours. 835,000*30 = 25.05mil.
Why you don't understand this is clear but why you choose to call it stupid is... meh whatever makes you feel more secure I guess.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: pmchem
Originally by: SencneS besides I'm building more profitable items with these planets anyway. Just if I wanted to I could build GS's
So after all this you admit everyone else is right and that building GS is such a dumb thing to do, even ebank isn't doing it. Nice gem buried there.
What does EBANK have to do with any of this??
In case you missed the point, wait I'll rephrase... Since you missed the point, what I was showing you is this is how much a single player with 4 planets can make if they choose to produce GS's... Not many will at the moment, because there are better items out there.
The whole point is at 18K a GS for a single person can make 600mil per month doing next to nothing. Just how long before the other more profitable items crash and they move onto GS's. That's what all you goons should consider while you hold onto your millions of units wait for the 20-40K price range...
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 17:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno Mind posting your calculations? (if u didn't already is late and i might have skipped past them)
600m a month for a 20k isk p3 seems a bit extreme.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tpnadCTMH9ryuAcnMLa-89g&hl=en#gid=0
That's what I am capable of doing, not that I am but that is an option. And you're right, 600mil a month is extreme.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 17:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: SencneS on 08/07/2010 17:56:14
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
wut?
edit: Could you please lay out the analogon of the calculation above for the case of mining Tritanium in a Retriever?
Mme, I value time according to it's function. Mining Trit in a Retriever would be this (for me at least) would be... Value of Veld / Time mined :) That would be my cost. Which is why I don't mine often unless all my orders are up to date, my production slots are full, my lab slots are full and now an extra step, my PI is "Optimal/cleaned etc.
I look at items like "face time" how much time I actually spend doing what it is that gets me the ISK. Clearly mining has a lot of face time, so does level 4 mission running, 0.0/W-Space ratting, and even trading has a decent amount of face time.
PI doesn't have much face time, I think I'm shooting long saying I'd spend 30 hours a month doing it, although setup takes some time, but that's kinda fun. After that the face time is minimal almost non-existent compared to most other EVE activities.
@Maria Yumeno I updated the link but not quick enough for you to post a reply. Check again.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 18:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno
Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 08/07/2010 17:56:14 @Maria Yumeno I updated the link but not quick enough for you to post a reply. Check again.
I'll try again tomorrow, due to the mobile phone verification i haven't been able to get a google docs account so far.
Weird.. I check again it's public and it's published. Probably google screwing around again I've had it where a buddy could see a dock but for me it was saying Temporary unavailable
I'll link it here on this page too - Link
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: SencneS on 08/07/2010 19:32:40
Originally by: Maria Yumeno Your calculations seem very optimistic. U are getting 22 extractors on each planet with a 5hr cycle time, then shipping it all between planets according to your spreadsheet. Ratio of planets here would be a problem, as would the pure amount of hauling involved would be pretty ridiculous. I'd give a realistic view as 300m a month (max) and that would be generous.
Nice speadsheet tho, i'd go with a more realistic calculation of 4000-4500 units per hr to start with and go from there. You'd also be looking at fitting 21 stuctures on planet at most, not considering gas giants.
Output would also be reduced as you'd be better putting you p1 production on the same planet as your extractors to reduce hauling and the 5th planet would purely support p2-p3 production. I wouldn;t be sure that a single planet would cope with imported p0 then changing to p1>p2 and finally p3 anyway.
isk per hr wise it's looking at at most 10m isk. It wouldn;t really be worth doing until robotics hit 40k p/u then some people may consider it.
Err no, not 22 extractors on 1 planet.. You can't extract everything for GS's on a single planet. It's using a binary planet setup, in which two planets are producing the end result but each is only producing one side of the chain, after a while you get a build up of extra P2 items which you move to the other side. You could do this for about 7 days at MAX production before you need to move P2s to the other planet.
The planets are Storm and Plasma. The Plasma planet produces enough Transmitter to not only feed itself but feed the other planet at the same time. The way I'd set this one up is I'd actually prime both planets with a small purchase of Water-Cooled CPUs and Transmitters. Put those on the planets that are not producing that item.
In the end it comes down to per planet.
1 Launch pad 1 Advance Processor (Guidance Systems) 3 Advance Processors (Producing the P2 items that planet can produce) 3 Basic Processors (Each one producing their P1 item)
That's only 8 Structures. Plasma Planet has 8+5 extractors = 21 total Structures Storm Planet has 4+5 extractors = 17 total Structures
I'd probably push more extractors on and fill em up of cause but this setup twice (total 4 planet) would produce 12 Guidance Systems an hour.
Edit:- Corrected some spelling. Actually it's a lot more obtainable with Elite CC, with this you need to break it up a little.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno So basically your spreadsheet is setup for 2 planets? Then is multiplied by four at the end?
Not quiet, all 4 planets could produce GS's but they are paired planets. Plasma and Storm. Each planet produces one half of chain. Technically you could probably get away with using all 5 planets, Have Two Storm planets just producing Water-Cooled CPU's, Two Plasma just producing just Transmitters. Then have the 5th running the two together. But there really no need to do that as all four planets can be producing them.
The launch pad can only hold about 7 days of P2 items and leave enough room for incoming production, and Finished goods. So your touch/face time is run the small amount of extractors and once a week move some P2s. If you think outside the box a little there is a trick which I recently was shown that makes this very much more obtainable.
It's not a complex setup or requires very much logistics involved. It's just unconventional, which is why some people don't understand it.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RAW23
I can't for the life of me work out why you are multiplying these two numbers together. One represents your total (active and passive)monthly earnings presented in an isk per hour form. The other is your number of active hours (although since you said in an earlier post that this was 1 hour every 2 days, shouldn't that figure be 15 rather than 30?). Why are they together? Please explain slowly so I can follow what you think you are doing here.
Yeah but 30 hours seems more realistic anyway. But that's still pretty reasonable profit for the effort. If you 1 hour a day, that includes all the extractor cycles you have to start, and once every couple of days doing a little logistics. Which is why it's probably best to go with a 5 Planet setup explained above. Have four planets pump out the P1 items. On the 5th planet convert them to P2 and P3.
I guess it's just personal preference on how I judge value of time for production job. I actually can't think of any other way to value time of production jobs.
Amount made over a given time frame / the given time frame = Value of time. Value of time * active hours doing that = The cost of the amount made over.
We're talking about something that kinda runs itself with very little startup cost and no ISK cost after setup apart from import/export. Which over a month you'd be unlucky if that was more then a couple of mil.
Why? How would you value your time for PI?
Amarr for Life |
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: SencneS on 09/07/2010 14:31:19
Originally by: RAW23 Lets assume that your formula is correct. Then let's look at two further hypothetical examples. In example 1 the 600mil only takes 1 active hour per month. In example 2 the 600mil takes 100 active hours. Now, according to your formula, if it only takes 1 active hour to make the 600mil, then the cost of your time = 890k. If it takes 100 hours, though, you get the result that the cost of your time is 890mil! This clearly makes no sense, as your formula seems to suggest that the more you make per hour of activity, the less valuable your time is!
First off you're a little off on your calculation.
Using your numbers = 1hour = 890K , 100 * 890,000 = 89,000,000 ISK (89mil) not 890mil.
Here is how I'd do it if it was 100hours of PI. 600mil / 720 = 833,000 ISK per hour
833,000 * 100 = 83,300,000 ISK (83.3mil)
This makes it IMPOSSIBLE for me to have more active time value then the actual ISK I've earned in the same time frame. If I only earned 10mil in 720 hours the formula would be.
10mil / 720 = 13,888.89 ISK per hour. If in a month I used 100 hours, 13,888.89 * 100 = 1,388,889 ISK You see :) Even if it took all 720 hours. 13,888,98 * 720 = 10,000,000.90
Which is how I calculate mining as it's 100% face time/active time Any ISK I near has a extremely low ISK/hour ratio.
Secondly if at any point my face time was actually more then the time it took to perform that function for example.... I actually can't think of any because if I'm activing doing it, it's included in the formula to start with. But lets assume something like actual login time.
Mining for example 10 mil a day would be
10,000,000 / 24 = 416,666.67 isk an hour
However I sat afk out at a belt not mining staring at the screen for 48 hours.
416,666.67 * 48 = 20,000,000.16 ISK face time cost.
Then why would I be doing it in the first place if it cost more "face time" then actual profit? I wouldn't I wouldn't sit there pretending to mine for 48 hours and only turn on the lasers for 23 lol If I did that's a complete waste of time and I deserve to record the loss.
But like I said, actually doing this would never happen. Besides I consider falling asleep at the screen -NON-Face time :)
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.09 15:30:00 -
[22]
I guess I don't understand what part of "This is how I personally measure my value time per activity" people are not understanding... Is this not personal preference how I choose to value my time? Here is my time valuation in a nutshell.. Any activity I perform get this calculation...
Value of ISK / Amount of "real time" it took to get that ISK = value of ISK per hour.
Active time actually doing the functions require to make that ISK * Value of ISK per hour = My time cost.
I do this for every function.
PI would have it's own value. Mining has it's own value. Missioning has it's own value. Manufacturing has it's own value, this is where this idea comes from. I only spend 5 minutes buying the materials, 30 minutes hauling it, 5 minutes installing the one week long jobs. In the end my profit can be say 350mil. So my per hour is about 2mil, that's how much my time cost me. So my profit is really 348mil. Marketing has a value but that's harder to gage so I put it at 5mil per hour, otherwise I'm performing an CRAP LOAD of calculations.
This allows me to pretty much determine how and where I should spend my time if I don't feel like doing one thing. Lets say all my slots are used up. But I feel like playing the game for another hour... What do I do? Marketing, missioning, mining... I'll do Missioning because my market is up to date..
Why I'm getting lectured on how to personally value my time is astonishing...
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.09 16:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: mental maverick Because you are using it as argument in a discussion about the profitability of PI and whether it is a viable income source compared to other proffessions, based on ACTIVE time spent setting it up and maintaining it.
err no, someone proclaimed I value my time as "free" I mealy said no it has cost, and this is how it costs..
So nice try but you're wrong. It wasn't used in any way about profitability of PI. It's was mentioned because someone said my time was free..
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.07.09 16:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dr Oktober So in other words, yes you did use it an argument.
That would only be correct if I had said - "Everyone should be using this forumla to calculate their PI profitability." Which I have never said. And I wouldn't be so stupid as to say "Everyone is valuing their time in PI." Because I know some people value their time as "Free".
What you and others are apprently trying to do is shove words into my mouth, in which I will happy point to the fact that the whole time I'm saying "If I wanted to..." or "Here is how I would personally...". Which is something you and the few posters above are missing..
The PI Profitability is just that, PI Profitability before the "Value of time" is even included, why? Because everyone values their own personal time differently. What they personally have to determine is --> IF <-- they where looking at PI, what is the BASE (Which I've given) and then take out their very own time cost..
So you can stop trying to shove words into my mouth they don't fit.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 17:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: RAW23 But, that aside, your formula still has it that the cost of your time is lower the more you make per active hour.
As to it being a personal approach, that doesn't protect it from charges of not making sense. People are just pointing out to you that if you choose to value your time in this way then you choose to value your time irrationally.
I don't consider it irrational, I'm more of a manufacturer at heart.. Where ISK/Hour/Slot is very much an accepted calculation to determine of a BPO's "Value" in production. It certainly helped me determine which missile I should manufacture first when I ran that 200+ item munition business.
Applying that same concept to time for everything else is hardly irrational. Manufactures look at "Overall sale/profit (Depends on who you are) of the manufactured item" / Total time it takes to make = ISK/Hour/Slot. That's how much that BPO is worth per hour in production. So taking that same concept and applying it to "Personal Time" is as valid as any other personal time valuation method.. How you can call it irrational is a bit of a stretch. RAW, Come on dude we know each other better then this..
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 18:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: mental maverick stuff
The problem is you're mixing two conversations into one.
The last 2-3 pages have been mostly about how I value and calculate my own personal time. It's actually been pretty detrailing all things considered.
None the less, the whole "Value of time" started back on page 3 post 67 As you can see I replied to Kieselguhr Kid who said and I quote
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
That's actually the single point in which the discussion has turned into TWO different points. On post 71, Kieselguhr Kid actually said "you are correct; using this calculation, your time is not free." It actually tried to go a different route again at that point, when he introduced the "I'm making P3 instead of selling the more profitable P2" people then commented on how onlu 900K per hour is so little. The discussion actually went on this line not even really mentioning Guidance Systems just how time little 900K is all the way till I attempted to bring the discussion back to Guidance Systems on post 87 Which didn't even mention Time value and the sheet I had created at the time didn't even include any concept of it.
However, this doesn't stop people harping on how I value time. Maria Yumeno and I have been trying to keep the thread about Guidance System actually discussing setups and logistics chains for Planets to make Guidance Systems the most optimal way. The whole time not even mentioning anything to do with the value of time.
Post 99, yet again another Goon talking about profitability but it's more of a troll on how the P2s are worth more, even though that "tertiary" discussion ended 28 posts before hand, goons in their sheep ways posted for 5 posts about it, I simple ignored them.
Then RAW comes in fires up a question about how I value time, in his post he doesn't even mention anything to do with PI, just literally wants to know why I value my time that way. The thread is detailed again, despite almost a page of Maria Yumeno and I talking about Guidance Systems planets and their optimal setups. Actually from that point PI is not even the focus of discussion it's just about how time is valued.
Now there is a real LOOSE connection to PI, but it's like everyone talking hypothetically about how time should be calculated and using the original number I spat out about how profitable Guidance Systems are. No where is it really stated that value of time was included as part of PI profitability. That's actually kinda dangerous because people do value their time differently.
I don't know how you value you time, I really don't care so I'm not going to tell you how you should value you time. What I can tell you is, if you build Guidance Systems and when you go to sell them here is what you could make. I'm always careful to not assume anyone's value of time. In fact the PI Profitability is totally missing value of time, how many clicks it would it take, how much hauling, how much market activity.
You can think Kieselguhr Kid for derailing the thread the first time, RAW23 for derailing it the second, but I have to tell ya, You're also detrailing it now. Of cause I accept full responsibility for assisting in the detailing by continuing to reply to yours, RAW's and anyone who questions how I value my time personally.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 18:32:00 -
[27]
Edited by: SencneS on 09/07/2010 18:32:53
Originally by: Sol Fallstaff Why would anyone want to make it at the price its currently at ?, if you did need some for production you'd be better off using the raw materials to build another item in the same tier which is selling for a decent price and buying the Guidance Systems you need.. least this way you'll get a lot more of them than you would by making them
You wouldn't, there is plenty of other things that are better. But if you wanted to, you'd have to do what I did and find out how much it'll make a month. I pointed this out long ago, but as usually the real useful information is lose in a sea of trolls.
This is why I suggested if you where going to make these you should use a supply chain with a stop-gap. Like a Production planet in which you build the P1/P2 then P3 later. You never know at any time the Goons dreams could come true and these thing are worth 100K a piece in which you could easily switch to making these thing. But until that point the best thing would be literally use stop-gap so the P2s are not automatically fed into the Advance Processor.
That's what I've kinda recommended, but the whole point is. If someone WAS to make them now, how much profit could they get. Well the sheet I created is now broken because I played with it too much so don't use that. Use your own calculation.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 19:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel SencneS, if those posts were about how you value your time; either assert that and walk away or engage in a dialogue and expect criticism, you don't have to take criticisms personally.
People who post "their formula" for activity tend to imply theirs is either the best way, or optimal, then rationalise why or ask for feedback. Problem seems to be here, other people comment to you that yours appears irrational, and you are unwilling to accept it except by stating it's personal preference, then going into more detail to explain your rationale. There's nothing to debate then is there? If you want to debate it, take the criticism on board, if not just stop posting to justify yourself. No one else has really had opportunity to post their formula for calculating PI profitability in terms of time spent active/inactive because the discussion is almost a monologue from you.
I've used a few irrational formulas myself on occasion, others probably do, but it's not worth posting them on the eve-o forums, as they wont get any constructive feedback and I'm not interested in any in the first place. If it works for me that's all I need. Who cares what other people think, do you really need their approval either way? Can't really use a personal standard to debunk someone else's argument.... if it makes no sense to anyone else or they refuse to accept it's validity.
That wasn't really the case though, I didn't say "Here this is the best formula", it was simply posted to as a rebuttal to someone believing I value my time free. One, I might add, that I do put a cost on my time. I even asked how other people value their time. Go look for yourself if you don't believe its in there. Only a couple replied. Now you'll probably roll your eyes at this, but in case you missed it, apart from Mme and RAW literally who had legitimate questions as to why, the rest of the posts where nothing but trolls and I actually ignored almost all of them. You want me to ignore those people who are legitimately interested in why I do that? WHY being the key here. RAW even said "I'm Struggling to work out why you put these two numbers together..." What you're suggesting is I just ignore that, that's kinda rude don't you think?
Despite what you're suggesting I have read what others suggest, or even pointed out why they think my calculations are incorrect. And sure I've tried to justify one of two. Why? Because I don't think they quiet understand where I'm coming from. Calling it irrational really rubbed me the wrong way because the whole "He is doing something irrational" is a an odd argument. What may seem irrational to someone maybe completely rational to them. I can tell from your post you would understand that.
What I don't understand is why you choose to post when you clearly didn't read the whole subsection of posts on this thread about it. Not the first time you've chosen to intellectuality troll me when you didn't read the thread. You might want to do that next time.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 20:22:00 -
[29]
Edited by: SencneS on 09/07/2010 20:23:11
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
Originally by: SencneS What may seem irrational to someone maybe completely rational to them. I can tell from your post you would understand that.
I do, just don't know if there's much point trying to convince others in a public setting, when their opinion is irrelevant anyway (depending on how needy you are for their approval).
Originally by: SencneS What I don't understand is why you choose to post when you clearly didn't read the whole subsection of posts on this thread about it. Not the first time you've chosen to intellectuality troll me when you didn't read the thread. You might want to do that next time.
I'm not reading that drivel again!
I don't understand why you post either, so let's leave it at that
Sounds reasonable to me, I bid you a good day good lady.
Edit:- Changed Sex..
Amarr for Life |
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