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Puss Bag
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:20:00 -
[61]
Ya'll dumb and poor.
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pushedback
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:22:00 -
[62]
we do have rather low metal capacities you know
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:22:00 -
[63]
Edited by: pmchem on 08/07/2010 15:22:15 sencnes, I would only believe you had created a spreadsheet if it was hosted on isketch.com
The best PI spreadsheet for guiding safe production profits is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar_YTOcXpvb9dGFIdHJlb0VmYXBORWRrcXFkeHNjcWc&hl=en_GB#gid=10
Wyke's from S&I forum. As you can see, producing GS is a stupid loss of isk compared to selling the P2s or producing other P3s, hence ebank should get into it immediately and I'm glad you have planned it out.
Also goons are too lazy to manipulate markets overnight hope that helps.
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:25:00 -
[64]
confirming that we manipulated the guidance system market between 4 AM and 11 AM EST, prime time for this particular corporation based out of Ulan Bator, Mongolia
further confirming that we are all terrified of the prospect of producers teaming up to sell their own stockpiles of guidance systems at 40% of their build cost to stop the big, bad goons from selling our stockpiles 11 months ahead of our own predicted schedule
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:28:00 -
[65]
Originally by: pmchem The best PI spreadsheet for guiding safe production profits is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar_YTOcXpvb9dGFIdHJlb0VmYXBORWRrcXFkeHNjcWc&hl=en_GB#gid=10
That's a great sheet if you're buying the products... The one I just showed you is not. That's what 4 Planets is capable of producing, 4 Planets I own right now..
Apart from the initial setup cost it wouldn't cost me any ISK to maintain this setup. Just a little bit of my time every couple of days.. For 600+ Mil per month I can handle that.
Amarr for Life |
Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:30:00 -
[66]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: pmchem The best PI spreadsheet for guiding safe production profits is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar_YTOcXpvb9dGFIdHJlb0VmYXBORWRrcXFkeHNjcWc&hl=en_GB#gid=10
That's a great sheet if you're buying the products... The one I just showed you is not. That's what 4 Planets is capable of producing, 4 Planets I own right now..
Apart from the initial setup cost it wouldn't cost me any ISK to maintain this setup. Just a little bit of my time every couple of days.. For 600+ Mil per month I can handle that.
"It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
Amarr for Life |
Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Maria Yumeno The goons would have made u a fortune had you only had some patience
LOL So goons FINALLY put their money where their mouth was and purchased up the inventory in Jita in an attempt to manipulate this SLOW MOVING market. Good you guys you're starting to think like REAL Marketeers!
Cashflow has no room for patience. Here is a proverb, Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Assuming I DID hold onto my original purchase all this time, I'd have to sell at the same time everyone else is trying to sell for, people with MILLIONS of units. That's not a good market position. You want to know what would make me regret not holding them.. If they where 40K right now.. Why? Because then that would represent profit I could not have obtained doing what I am doing. Hell right now it's barely even 1B ISK more then what I've made off PI overall. But guess what I still have inventory of other PI items and I still haven't reached my full realized profit.
You better hope half of High-sec doesn't jump on the bandwagon and start pumping these things out. Here is a sheet with what I'm capable of producing with a setup using a binary planet setup, in which they all planets produce GS's with minimal logistics. They all produce excess and the excess is moved to the other plants once every few days. Not much logistics since they are all in the same system and a Inty IV can handle it.
I got to tell ya... 600mil for the minimal effort.. That'll keep me in PLEXs for a long time.
PS- I alway re-read before I post just in case.. I too went to bed.. Here is my continuation.
People in hi-sec will only start building them if they actually become profitable to produce. At the moment they are not. Assuming most people will only work for a minimum of 10m isk an hour i'd anticipate that GS will continue to go up, however there are still much more profitable prospects out there for those willing to do some research. For those not, almost any and every p3 will turn over a profit. Robotics is on it's way right up.
People are right in saying there is lots of speculation going on, this is obviously because of the massive amounts of potential profits compared to the relatively low risk. I don't see how anyone investing sensible would not be able to at least double their money over the space of a month.
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pushedback
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:39:00 -
[69]
Originally by: SencneS
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
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Supertrader
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
I think I just lost some IQ points by reading this post
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
you are correct; using this calculation, your time is not free. since you are making guidance systems rather than selling the P2s that go into them, assuming the 20K guidance systems that were never happening wind up actually happening tomorrow and their true build cost is 40K, you are paying other people roughly 575m a month to play Guidance Systems Online instead.
but you know that, because you're in charge of the biggest bank in Eve Onlihaahahahhahaha
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno People in hi-sec will only start building them if they actually become profitable to produce. At the moment they are not. Assuming most people will only work for a minimum of 10m isk an hour i'd anticipate that GS will continue to go up, however there are still much more profitable prospects out there for those willing to do some research. For those not, almost any and every p3 will turn over a profit. Robotics is on it's way right up.
People are right in saying there is lots of speculation going on, this is obviously because of the massive amounts of potential profits compared to the relatively low risk. I don't see how anyone investing sensible would not be able to at least double their money over the space of a month.
People in high-sec will build them from planets because there is virtually zero cost associated with it, and because maintaining it simple. It also doesn't occupy your time like say... Missioning or Regional Trading. PI is something everyone can do and still continue to do what they would normally do.
So PI is nothing more then a boost to ones wallet. Even a lazy 96 hour extractor cycle turns some ISK and that's as lazy as you can get. It's almost on part with Datacore harvesting. What will happen is people will naturally gravitate toward that which is the biggest profit with effort. At the moment that HAS to be Guidance Systems. If you pick the right planets you can make a good amount of P3's with a little research. If PI was time intense I would agree with you, no point doing something that consumes all your time for pennies, but that's not the case.
Meh it doesn't matter anyway, right now the 18K is depleting fast to 15K in Jita. The thing about toting a market spike as a victory is the market bites back.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid you are correct; using this calculation, your time is not free. since you are making guidance systems rather than selling the P2s that go into them, assuming the 20K guidance systems that were never happening wind up actually happening tomorrow and their true build cost is 40K, you are paying other people roughly 575m a month to play Guidance Systems Online instead.
but you know that, because you're in charge of the biggest bank in Eve Onlihaahahahhahaha
Wait a second... what?? do you even realize what you just said.. You should stop posting while you think you're ahead because soon you'll realize what you're spewing out and a FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU moment..
Amarr for Life |
Ilarra
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:56:00 -
[74]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid you are correct; using this calculation, your time is not free. since you are making guidance systems rather than selling the P2s that go into them, assuming the 20K guidance systems that were never happening wind up actually happening tomorrow and their true build cost is 40K, you are paying other people roughly 575m a month to play Guidance Systems Online instead.
but you know that, because you're in charge of the biggest bank in Eve Onlihaahahahhahaha
Wait a second... what?? do you even realize what you just said.. You should stop posting while you think you're ahead because soon you'll realize what you're spewing out and a FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU moment..
Let's try a hypothetical. If I can sell a guidance system for 100 isk, but I can sell the components to make a guidance system for 200 isk, why would I want to manufacture the guidance system at all?
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Bel Arvardan
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:57:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
Wait, do I get this right? Your time is worth ~900k isk/hour? Well lets tell you something: There are fun jobs in this world that pay 10$. A gametime card (2xPLEX) Brings you about 600M isk. So if you are doing ANYTHING in this game for isk and not for fun, it should yield way above 100M isk/hour. Ah wait, you have fun playing PI. Nevermind. Forget what I said.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
This is the single stupidest MD post I have ever read, I hope to god you're drunk.
congratulations.
(Also, the point of spiking a market like that is to increase the buy/sell margin, let the buy orders breathe, and let buy order price increas. As of now GSs are stabilizing at 9-10k isk buy orders, or 30% higher than before the spike. The sell order price will fall back down near the buy order price, that's a given in market manipulation)
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Bel Arvardan Wait, do I get this right? Your time is worth ~900k isk/hour?
Why are you guys trying to be pretend to be smarter when you just keep putting your brain on hold..
900K per hour for that particular function. My time per hour is easily worth 100mil maybe more at the rate I'm making ISK. But for this particular function of building GS's my time would only be worth... 900K.
As for selling P2 items for more then the combine P3 items, sure. That's why these planets can produce more then required. But lets face it.. Water cooled CPUs are great right now, and they are easy to make, in large numbers. But Water-Cooled CPUs are only used to make Supercomputers and Guidance Systems. They have no other consumption point, not like Transmitters which DO have other uses.
See the awesomeness of having a binary planet setup is each planet produces more then the possible consumption. It also gives you a natural stop-gap before they get consumed so if the market is better you CAN cash out at that level instead of building the next stage.
What, you think I don't know this LOL. Sorry to disappoint, besides I'm building more profitable items with these planets anyway. Just if I wanted to I could build GS's and make 575mil a month (If they are 18K, which they are not) After all, with this talk about them getting to 40K well.. that's 1.2-1.3B per month profit.. That's highly attractive so setting up to be in that position is a smart thing to do, would you not agree?
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:17:00 -
[78]
Originally by: mechtech This is the single stupidest MD post I have ever read, I hope to god you're drunk.
What, proper time calculation for any given function too much for you to understand or something?
It's pretty simple, this function would get me 600mil per month, how many hours would it take me to get that 600mil? 720. So per hour it's 835K. How many hours does it take for me to maintain that, 15 hours. 835,000*30 = 25.05mil.
Why you don't understand this is clear but why you choose to call it stupid is... meh whatever makes you feel more secure I guess.
Amarr for Life |
Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: SencneS
Meh it doesn't matter anyway, right now the 18K is depleting fast to 15K in Jita. The thing about toting a market spike as a victory is the market bites back.
I'm into a different p3, the Guidance systems i just invested a little left over money when they were at 8k p/u
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: SencneS besides I'm building more profitable items with these planets anyway. Just if I wanted to I could build GS's
So after all this you admit everyone else is right and that building GS is such a dumb thing to do, even ebank isn't doing it. Nice gem buried there.
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The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:32:00 -
[81]
i have approximately 100 billion isk in guidance systems at the moment
that's pretty cool, thanks gs isk
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:34:00 -
[82]
Originally by: pmchem
Originally by: SencneS besides I'm building more profitable items with these planets anyway. Just if I wanted to I could build GS's
So after all this you admit everyone else is right and that building GS is such a dumb thing to do, even ebank isn't doing it. Nice gem buried there.
What does EBANK have to do with any of this??
In case you missed the point, wait I'll rephrase... Since you missed the point, what I was showing you is this is how much a single player with 4 planets can make if they choose to produce GS's... Not many will at the moment, because there are better items out there.
The whole point is at 18K a GS for a single person can make 600mil per month doing next to nothing. Just how long before the other more profitable items crash and they move onto GS's. That's what all you goons should consider while you hold onto your millions of units wait for the 20-40K price range...
Amarr for Life |
pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:01:00 -
[83]
Originally by: SencneS Since you missed the point, what I was showing you is this is how much a single player with 4 planets can make if they choose to produce GS's... Not many will at the moment, because there are better items out there.
And we come full circle with sencnes making the argument for us that people aren't producing GS and shouldn't be producing GS, and therefore their price has nowhere to go but up. Thanks!!
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:12:00 -
[84]
Originally by: SencneS
The whole point is at 18K a GS for a single person can make 600mil per month doing next to nothing.
30 h of active game time is what you consider next to nothing? Well have fun clicking and hauling then I guess...
On a more serious note, I think you just found the bottom threshold for GSs on a long term. Considering 25 mil/h is what a decent lvl 4 mission runner is earning with no demands on when to log on or worrying about market competition I'd say 20k is the lower limit before ppl move on to other stuff.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:13:00 -
[85]
Yo goons, sup?
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:24:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Maria Yumeno on 08/07/2010 17:33:14
Originally by: SencneS
It's pretty simple, this function would get me 600mil per month, how many hours would it take me to get that 600mil?
Mind posting your calculations? (if u didn't already, is late and i might have skipped past them)
600m a month for a 20k isk p3 seems a bit extreme. When i was calculating my p0>p2 profits i was getting around 30m a day based on a price of 15k isk,i was being conservative as i know i won't always be on to refresh my extractors when the cycle ends. 20m a day for a loss making p3 seems a bit high even if it taken all the way from p0 and nothing is bought off the market.
Edit - Forgot to mention, my calculations are based on 0.0 planets with an extractor rate of 4500/hr (2250/cycle) and each planet supporting 21 structures, i had it split down to about 12 extractors and 9 factories (making p1's - input 6000units p/h) in 4 planets with a planet setup for p2's.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:31:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno Mind posting your calculations? (if u didn't already is late and i might have skipped past them)
600m a month for a 20k isk p3 seems a bit extreme.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tpnadCTMH9ryuAcnMLa-89g&hl=en#gid=0
That's what I am capable of doing, not that I am but that is an option. And you're right, 600mil a month is extreme.
Amarr for Life |
Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Yo goons, sup?
Not too much. Keep a few of those BPCs in reserve for us, will you?
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:43:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 08/07/2010 17:47:31
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid "It doesn't matter what it costs to produce if you buy the items, because my time is free"
LOL why did I think you fools would say that..
No it's not free.. If I calculate it like this... 600mil per month / 720 hours = 833,333 ISK an hour.
Let shoot REALLY long and say it takes me 1 hour to move products every 2 days. That's 30 hours a month.
30 Hours * 833,333 = 24,999,990 ISK. That's how much it cost me.
So my profit is really only 575mil ISK a month. OMG that's STILL worth the effort!
wut?
edit: Could you please lay out the analogon of the calculation above for the case of mining Tritanium in a Retriever?
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:46:00 -
[90]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Maria Yumeno Mind posting your calculations? (if u didn't already is late and i might have skipped past them)
600m a month for a 20k isk p3 seems a bit extreme.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tpnadCTMH9ryuAcnMLa-89g&hl=en#gid=0
That's what I am capable of doing, not that I am but that is an option. And you're right, 600mil a month is extreme.
Any way to make the document public? i don't have a Google ID, also. does it include the calculations, or just the numbers?
Sounds like your assumptions may be a little high, either using a 5hr cycle time or ott extraction rates....
basically i figured each p1 planet can kick out 40x9 units per hr (360) x 4 planets makes 1440 units. p2's take 80 units per hr... so they will make 18x5 units an hr (90) which is around 65k a month. or close to 1bn a month @18k p/u (fairly optimistic).
I never looked into how many units p3 require per hr. but i find it very hard to believe they are only losing 30% of their p2 value if priced at 20k isk (only 33% more than the p2 value)
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