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Chastity Lynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.20 10:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello All,
I was in conversation in the CAS Chat room around the benefit of training certain skills ( in this case - Race drone special). one thing that everyone suggested was there is no point on training them to lvl 5. Being a x5 skill it takes almost a month to train them and the general chain of thought was it is not worth the effort to spend that much time for just 2% increase in damage.
One thing everyone agree to is there should be a bonus when training a lvl 5 and above skill e.g. 10% additional damage at lvl5 or Damage boost to 4%/ lvl instead of 2% which is case now. This would make the training time worth the effort.
I think CCP should look at some sort of special bonus for skills x5 and above so that people who train them are doing it for the extra tactical advantage rather than leaving it at 4. there would still be people who might not go to 5 but that is a decision they make.
If anyone has a better suggestion would be much appreciated
Thank you
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StoneCold
Geordie Freckler
28
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Posted - 2012.07.20 10:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
People will come to a point where they even don-Št know what to skill. Everything they want is done.
Instead of wasting time on something they-Šll probably never use anyway they just can kick in a longtime skill. In a couple days i-Šll kick "large blaster spec 5" in - for another 2% damage.
Imo the 2% damage bonus are good enough. So the gap between newer players and old stinky vets doesnt get to big. |
Goti fase
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.20 10:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree in general but I don't think it is right to just make a level 5 skill have a bigger bonus than each level before it. Instead the items that are effected by that skill should be changed to make training that last level worth it.
Maybe if/when drone boats get a real bonus for drone damage the level 5 skill for drone specialisation will become worth it. Same goes for other skills like maybe Exhumer level 5. Good thing is we already know that CCP is doing a big rebalancing act on all the ships hopefully out in the winter expansion. |
Chastity Lynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.20 10:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
To your point about the Gap, I do not think that would important, 6 month on player can have skill at 5 while a 2 year old might not. at that point 6 month player has the advantage.
I guess its more about the tactics. In most cases long kills are left by player to be done later while some players do it early. its all about the decision making and what is important to the player. PVP players would go for it early , while PVE might do it later.
I believe long skill training should not be about - well I have nothing to train might as well do it.
But thank you for your input.
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
301
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Posted - 2012.07.20 10:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skills are already worth training to 5 for "tactical advantages." If you "run out" of things to train, start an alt. |
Chastity Lynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you - Goti fase
The only reason I mentioned X5 and above it the time it takes for such skills to train. in general x5 takes a month that is a long time to spend doing nothing buy training a single skill.
anything below I believe they are fine and bonus to them would be overkill.
Its not only about the Drone but also about guns. e.g Medium Blaster Special is also 2% damage increase from lvl4 to lvl5. and it takes 20+ days to do it. not worth it. a 300 DPS ship would mean it would make it only 306 in that much time.
if it were 10% additional damage as an example it would mean 337 DPS aprox. now that is something worth training for.
I guess I am after incentive to train a x5 and above skill which there is none at this time. |
Chastity Lynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Skills are already worth training to 5 for "tactical advantages." If you "run out" of things to train, start an alt.
Would you spend a month to get an extra 2% damage early in your EVE career? |
StoneCold
Geordie Freckler
29
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Serious question:
What happens to ships with multi-race bonuses?
Or in other words: besides large blaster spec 5 i can fly a vindicator perfectly (at lvl every single skill). Isn-Št it powerfull enough allready?
Also with weapon skill 5 = 25%, spec-weapon skill = 10%, damage mods, hardwires, surgical strike 15%, (in most cases) shipbonus 25%.
As far as it goes to damage: its allready enough damage on the table imo. |
Chastity Lynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:Serious question:
What happens to ships with multi-race bonuses?
Or in other words: besides large blaster spec 5 i can fly a vindicator perfectly (at lvl every single skill). Isn-Št it powerfull enough allready?
Also with weapon skill 5 = 25%, spec-weapon skill = 10%, damage mods, hardwires, surgical strike 15%, (in most cases) shipbonus 25%.
As far as it goes to damage: its allready enough damage on the table imo.
Opinion is what I am after. want to know what people think about it. Thank you |
StoneCold
Geordie Freckler
29
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
You-Šre welcome. |
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Paikis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
82
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Posted - 2012.07.20 11:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sounds like what you want is for those spec skills to be reduced to x2 or x3. |
Zanzbar
Seraphim Initiative
26
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Posted - 2012.07.20 13:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Working as intended. You can try a skill with little time investment (lvl1-2), be good at it with some focus into it (lvl 3-4), or be best at it with significant time investment (lvl5)
The skill system is built off diminishing returns for the time invested and changing that will make the gap between newer players and vets too hard to close. And that 2% extra damage to a gun after bonuses and dmg mods can easily become 20-25 wxtra dmage per second on a battleship and I don't think that making it be a 50dps increase would add any value to overall gameplay |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Buster's Salvage Transport and Recycling Service
1976
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Posted - 2012.07.20 13:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
If it's not worth training, don't train it. I fail to see what the problem is. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Raphael Celestine
Galactic Trust Inc
10
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Posted - 2012.07.20 14:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
I actually think that having most skills be 'not worth it' to train to L5 is good for the game.
Skills are one of the most important factors in succeeding at anything in EVE, and the real-time training system means it's essentially impossible for a new character to catch up to an old character. You mitigate this to a significant extent by specialising, and a focused three-month character can beat a year-old jack-of-all-trades character . . . but only in their area of specialisation. Overall, the older character will always have an advantage somewhere.
That doesn't necessarily mean that EVE's skill system is bad: I actually like it in a lot of ways. But the game will not survive without new players, and the only way we'll ever keep new players is if they are able to compete with the old hands in a reasonable time-frame. A week-old character climbing into a throwaway rifter and making the tackle which gets your fleet a nice kill is a rush; being told that that's all you'll be good for for the next year is a reason to quit the game.
The current system means that roughly 20% of the training time will get your 80% efficiency. That means that a new pilot can get 'good' at any one thing in a relatively short period of time. Only a small fraction of EVE's options will be open to them, and they're still not 'great' even at that, but they're getting to the point where they can start to feel like they can actually compete. Even if they find themselves up against a veteran, the gap is small enough that they have a chance of winning: all it takes is a fluke wrecking hit, or catching the opponent off-guard, or some other form of lucky break.
The flip side of that is that having those last 'inefficient' skill levels still allows the veterans to get a noticable edge. It's a small edge, true, but when you add half a dozen of those 2% advantages, months or years of extra experience, and the ability to throw more ISK at a problem without breaking your wallet, they start to become significant. Nine times out of ten, in a fair fight the older player can expect to come out slightly ahead - which is as it should be. |
StoneCold
Geordie Freckler
29
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Posted - 2012.07.20 14:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, i tried canflipping somehere earlier this year on a trial account. i got all needed skills (not at 4 or 5, just so i can use it) for a rifter with warp scrambler. took me like 2 days to train for it (maybe 3).
On the 3rd day i went out to canflipping and made me 5m in ransom.
5m on 3rd day is not that bad i think.
ISK < Skillpoints < real player skill
Oh pardon, I once more talked without asking for permission. |
Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
67
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Posted - 2012.07.20 16:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Raphael Celestine wrote:I actually think that having most skills be 'not worth it' to train to L5 is good for the game.
This, this and this.
It encourages specialization, which is a key part in allowing newer players to be competitive. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
305
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Posted - 2012.07.20 22:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Chastity Lynn wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:Skills are already worth training to 5 for "tactical advantages." If you "run out" of things to train, start an alt. Would you spend a month to get an extra 2% damage early in your EVE career?
No. I'd spend it immediately if it was a way to unlock a new toy, and I would spend it later when it became the most efficient way to increase my damage output relative to the alternative skills I could train.
EVE training is full of diminishing returns, but that doesn't mean an extra 2% isn't worth training for at some point. Personally I trained a ton of skills to 4 until I could do almost anything I wanted to in-game. Now I'm training those skills to 5 so I'm perfect at everything. If I'd wanted to, I could have trained for just a couple of things and been perfect at them early on. It's all about how you want to develop your character. There's literally zero need to but massive bonuses in for training skills fully. An additional % of something puts you ahead of whoever hasn't trained that skill to 5, so if you're in the habit of fighting people (or competing when them in the marketplace, I guess), there's plenty of motivation to train that last level. |
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