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Anaxis Muntaine
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.07 23:49:00 -
[1]
Hi - just a quick question: are there any benefits to grouping your weapons, other than making it easier to click on one icon, vice each one individually?
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Mal Lokrano
Gallente The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.07 23:57:00 -
[2]
(1) Reloading is easier, because you only have to click one icon. Although you can use control R to reload all guns at the same time though so reloading is only a minor advantage.
(2) Damage happens all at once, thus for things like missiles this can help as npcs will only shoot defenders within a certain time frame making it less likely they will be able to shoot multiple missiles down with multiple defenders.
This is because they will hit on but as all of the other missiles are not spread out it normally doesn't have a chance to fire another one before they hit.
(3) for dual weapon shops like the Typhoon you can group missiles with missiles and turrets with turrets making it only a two button affair. ____________________________________________ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two.
Don't bug me ingame about diplomats, I don't know wh |
Anaxis Muntaine
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.08 00:15:00 -
[3]
Ah - ok - thanks Mal. That makes more sense. Guess I'll start grouping my weps more often!
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Zanzbar
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Posted - 2010.07.08 01:46:00 -
[4]
grouping was added as a way to reduce lag on the server cpp pushes people to use grouping in large fleet engagments. when your guns fire multipule calculations have to be made and sent across the servers conection including tracking damage and falloff, these calculations have to be repeated as many as 8 times per ship (one for each weapon). when you group your weapons you cna turn 8 sets of calcualtions into 1 calculation that goes across the server, significantly reducing the lag in larger engaments.
also grouping casues you to have your full volly hit at once wich is great for breaking peoplses tank not only becasue of the large amont of dmg hiting at once, but due to the fact that when one gun in a group gets a wel aimed shot they all do :)
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Korlissa
Komodo Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.07.08 01:47:00 -
[5]
It's also a godsend if you ever switch ammo on the fly, you only have to select it once for the whole group rather than clicking furiously to get them all changed over individually.
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Anaxis Muntaine
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.08 01:53:00 -
[6]
OK - that helps a lot too - makes a lot of sense on the server side of things.
One question I forgot to ask, but the mention of Defenders reminded me - if you fire grouped missiles, and the target fires a Defender, will it knock out the whole group, or just one within the group?
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Jill Xelitras
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.07.08 07:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Anaxis Muntaine ... if you fire grouped missiles, and the target fires a Defender, will it knock out the whole group, or just one within the group?
Just one. Defenders are pretty useless for players. It's not worth training them or fitting them. They will not reduce damage dealt to you in a meaningful amount.
Jill.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 08:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Anaxis Muntaine Ah - ok - thanks Mal. That makes more sense. Guess I'll start grouping my weps more often!
For me the most useful aspect of it is that it frees up a lot of top slots, so I can put all (or most) my active modules where they can be activated without needing to fumble about for the ALT or CTRL key.
Combined with "hide passive modules" and "hide empty slots" it also reduces UI clutter - always a good thing.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Shebee
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.08 11:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Anaxis Muntaine Hi - just a quick question: are there any benefits to grouping your weapons, other than making it easier to click on one icon, vice each one individually?
You shouldn't click them.
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Lonestar Antares
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.08 12:39:00 -
[10]
On the flipside.....I did notice that it is advantageous to ungroup weapons when shooting at hard to hit targets. When I fire grouped oversize guns at small targets, most of the time, the entire group misses. If I ungroup and ripple fire them, I often land 1-2 grazing hits where the entire group would have missed before.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.08 12:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malcanis For me the most useful aspect of it is that it frees up a lot of top slots, so I can put all (or most) my active modules where they can be activated without needing to fumble about for the ALT or CTRL key.
Combined with "hide passive modules" and "hide empty slots" it also reduces UI clutter - always a good thing.
Not a lot of people realize you can drag module activation buttons around on the UI so they can be in any position.
Also helps to use the lock/unlock modules toggle (right-click the white trangle) so you don't accidentally drag something in mid-combat.
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.07.08 13:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Matalino on 08/07/2010 13:16:24
Originally by: Zanzbar due to the fact that when one gun in a group gets a wel aimed shot they all do :)
This is not true. Grouped turrets deal the same damage in the same way as ungrouped turrets. Grouping turrets does not cause the entire group to link hit quality. A group of turrets may share range/tracking calculations, but the damage for each turret is calculated seperately and then summed for the group. Flavor text is then assigned based on the average damage done by the group of turrets. Originally by: Lonestar Antares On the flipside.....I did notice that it is advantageous to ungroup weapons when shooting at hard to hit targets. When I fire grouped oversize guns at small targets, most of the time, the entire group misses. If I ungroup and ripple fire them, I often land 1-2 grazing hits where the entire group would have missed before.
This is equally false. As damage (including hit/miss) is already calculated seperately, grouping turrets does not affect your chance to hit.
The only way ungrouping turrets may improve chances to hit with hard to hit targets is by increasing the sampling of tracking. "Ripple" firing the turrets gives you a better chance of catching the target with a lower angular velocity. However, this also increases the chance of catching the target with a higher angular velocity, so the advantage is questionable.
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Lonestar Antares
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.08 15:57:00 -
[13]
Then "catching them at the right moment" must be what is at play but the end result is significantly better. Try it..... mount some 350/450mm hybrids and start popping cruisers. The group practically always completely misses while the individual guns timed to keep up a continuous fire will land 1/6 or 1/7 hits.
Plus....its a tad bit easier on the capacitor AND when you cap out, individual guns shut down rather than the whole group going offline. Plus, its a lot easier to swap ammo and keep the dps up, reload without letting your hard to kill prey suddenly armor rep up.
I hardly ever group anymore.
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:01:00 -
[14]
Grouping is awesome as you can have guns on F1, tackle on F2 and so on. Also it is less risk that you fail to activate a gun in the heat of an fight.
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Anaxis Muntaine
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 -
[15]
This all got me thinking... When you're PvP'ing, and it comes to getting the KM (and let's assume for the moment that the pl;ayer is more interested in the KM than anything else), wouldn't it make more sense to ripple fire (each weapon fired individually) so that weapons are impacting at multiple times. By this I mean, let's say it's you and another guy fighting someone. Let's now say that I rippled fire four launchers, while my buddy GROUP fires his launchers. I'd have three more opportunities to be dealing the final blow, no? (Did I explain that well enough?)
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Jill Xelitras
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:07:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jill Xelitras on 09/07/2010 03:11:03 Edited by: Jill Xelitras on 09/07/2010 03:07:55
Originally by: Anaxis Muntaine This all got me thinking... When you're PvP'ing, and it comes to getting the KM (and let's assume for the moment that the pl;ayer is more interested in the KM than anything else), wouldn't it make more sense to ripple fire (each weapon fired individually) so that weapons are impacting at multiple times. By this I mean, let's say it's you and another guy fighting someone. Let's now say that I rippled fire four launchers, while my buddy GROUP fires his launchers. I'd have three more opportunities to be dealing the final blow, no? (Did I explain that well enough?)
Yes, you're absolutely right. The best pvp'ers shoot one turret at each target and also split up their drones to go after one target each. Of course you need to train up targeting to be really effective at getting killmails. You'll be an awesome pvp'er in no time and a valuable asset to your fleet .
Ok, ok ... don't do that, I was kidding.
Jill.
edit: hihi, I misread the post I quoted. Tbh, I have no clue how the mechanic to get the km works.
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.07.09 09:26:00 -
[17]
on most of my ships I have 1 group, only ships I don't are the nightmare and paladin, and that is because you can 1 shot most frigs, and 2-3 shot most cruisers so firing all 4 at the same time is usually overkill.
really like grouping on my pvp ships so I can have my mwd in f1, web/scram/neut at f2/f3, and guns at f4, like to keep the tank mods in the mid/low slots with the cap booster
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Shebee
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Shebee on 09/07/2010 11:22:52 You want burst damage in PvP in every game there is. Think it this way, do you want to do constant 300 dps, or do you want to do 3000 every ten seconds? If you didn't get it, lets take it to the extreme, 300 constant dps, or 18,000 damage every minute? I think everyone wants to take the one shot method?
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