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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
neferosis
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:21:00 -
[1]
CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:24:00 -
[2]
0/10
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Raimus Kallenden
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard
LOL. You're ridiculous.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Raimus Kallenden
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard
LOL. You're ridiculous.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Pollictor
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
If you can code this in a couple months, can you just make me a new spaceship MMO? I've been looking for a new one to play. I'll even pay ya for it if it doesn't suck. Hop to it buddy!
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Diablo Ex
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Can you please pass me some of that fine smoke? ---
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Grez
M. Corp Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:43:00 -
[7]
Learn about programming before you spout bull**** please. ---
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neferosis
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:44:00 -
[8]
I am an expert in recode methods, I wrote my masters paper on techniques to be most effective in doing so. Its quite odd to see ignorant people saying things can't be done. Surely CCP has enough profits to hire quality people. For one they need to recode pos coding and combat coding.
Whoever did market coding he did a surprising job compared to people in the past. In apple if you coded like this you would be fired on the spot. Of course CCP at one point was a smallish company, they are much larger now and I think they can up their standards on efficiency. They do well as far as content creativity though it could improve, but in relation to their efficiency in delivering their products it is really lacking.
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Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:54:00 -
[9]
actually besides the troll, there is a good point behind his post.
they obviously did not count on eve being what it is today - or they would have never done it in python, which is overall a very decent language.
i could go onto why c++ is probably NOT the best way to go but i doubt you're even an IT professional.
but for the rest of the posters, you'd be very sad to know just how easy it *could* be to re-optimize eve... they just aren't doing it. it would require a massive concentrated effort.
the issue is not the work itself. that can be done by any of the scripters at ccp (as you know the difference between scripting and coding languages? or assembly? right?). the issue is the logistics as the eve cluster would come down for an unprecedented amount of time.
ccp would have to drop DUST and re-invest half their assets into floodgates because of all the tears flooding the worlds oceans, putting iceland at risk to be drowned in a cascade of QQ. i actually fly amarr |
neferosis
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:58:00 -
[10]
C++ easy to code and still better than python.
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Induc
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:01:00 -
[11]
So you're giving suggestions on how to optimize Eve without even knowing anything about how Eve is coded?
gl with the trolling in the future.
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Blaahlbah
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:04:00 -
[12]
CCP alts posting ITT
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:04:00 -
[13]
I would welcome anything ccp could/should do to fix their servers to be lag free.
Even if that means taking it down for an "unprecedented" amount of time.
Free skillpoints anyone? Raise your hands. --
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 08/07/2010 21:17:28
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++.
You are obviously qualified to make such a statement as you already have ported some millions of lines of Python into C++ without any visible change whatsoever, for a software that has similar or equal load to EVE Online.
Item DB | Sigs
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: neferosis .
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
boy, I was on the verge of taking you seriously until you said that... .
[Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels] |
AccesiViale
Gallente The Artful Dodgers
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:35:00 -
[16]
...tell you what. How about you show CCP what you can do with CPP in a two week sprint...thats half of eve by your calculation and imaginary skill.
I disagree with pretty much ever call and claim ccp makes technology related but your it takes serious balls to claim you could do better with a more complex language in a month...
Is your contract with apple for writing the whole OSX system by yourself? PS, you're using objective-c...similar...but not the same. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Messoroz
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
5 bucks you're using .NET in your C++ :P
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:41:00 -
[18]
From a programmers point of view: LOL!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:42:00 -
[19]
He is right though about the issue that they should recode the entire core (especially server side). Can be a PITA to do, but keeping this single threaded crap they call a node means lag will never be fixed. The only way you really can get rid of lag is to at least make it support multi core processors, and preferably make it possible to use several nodes for one system. Even if they fix the dominion lag, the lag will stay since new processors dont become much faster per thread, they just add more threads.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:44:00 -
[20]
If you really wanna help you should do some reading before opening your mouth. Most of the server code is in C++, and all parts that wheren¦t have been redone in C++ for performance reasons, client is still python though. But that really doesn¦t affect things all that much.
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Zelkath
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.08 21:44:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zelkath on 08/07/2010 21:44:34
Originally by: neferosis C++ easy to code and still better than python.
Actualy it is Stackless Python. And converting Stackless Python to C++ wouldn't be as easy as you claim. Or have you built a super powerfull libary for C++ to handle microthreads and not relying on the C-stack that you will give to CCP for free?
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Captain Vampire
Caldari No.Mercy
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:02:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Captain Vampire on 08/07/2010 22:01:41
Originally by: Gariuys If you really wanna help you should do some reading before opening your mouth.
This.
Originally by: Gariuys
Most of the server code is in C++, and all parts that wheren¦t have been redone in C++ for performance reasons, client is still python though. But that really doesn¦t affect things all that much.
And that.
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neferosis
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: neferosis on 08/07/2010 22:04:02 Its only hard if you don't understand your own coding. I think CCP laid off some of their old developers from what I have studied, hence they do not know their old code and how it works even. Hence they cant even been to translate it, nor do they the capability to start it from scratch due to lack of qualified coders. I really have no idea why ccp hires such people, their profit to cost ratio seems very low.
Also stackless python is a myth, its like putting a band-aid on a gushing wound. It won't stop lag.
Also ccp made like 5 mil profit last year. and you say they cant afford a super computer. And they have almost 50 mil in assets...
Super Computer doesn't go for more than 1 million dollars. And you can probably get a decent one for 500k no problem.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:09:00 -
[24]
Im pretty sure the op is an idiot.
/ not a programmer // but has done coding in C, C++, Python /// converting is not that easy.
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Xavier Zedicus
Don't Tax My Missions
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:10:00 -
[25]
This thread is pretty much lolz, and if this guy is really an Apple employee, it only reaffirms my views that apple has its head up its own ass. |
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xavier Zedicus This thread is pretty much lolz, and if this guy is really an Apple employee, it only reaffirms my views that apple has its head up its own ass.
Well, Apple needs "Facility Managers", too
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xavier Zedicus This thread is pretty much lolz, and if this guy is really an Apple employee, it only reaffirms my views that apple has its head up its own ass.
I think "Apple Employee" speaks volumes in itself lol.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:18:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Drykor on 08/07/2010 22:21:14 Not a bad troll, 5/10
On the off chance you're for real, you're an idiot. Edit: I just noticed the apple remark. Now I know for sure you're a troll. You could have been someone just off school spouting crap.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.07.09 00:30:00 -
[29]
Toasting in a ship thread.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.07.09 01:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: neferosis Super Computer doesn't go for more than 1 million dollars. And you can probably get a decent one for 500k no problem.
"Super Computer" is a very nebulus term. The bottom of the rankings for them are relativley slow, the top end... not so much. Worth remembering that the ancient Apple 4xG5 Mac Pro was classed as a "Super Computer" and a Core 2 Duo MBP has run rings around it.
It isn't that the hardware is all that expensive, you can go and buy an IBM zSeries and it'll crush most things your average PC hobbiest has wet dreams about owning with half its cores turned off, the SAN misbehaving and two of the redundant PSU's being blown. Used to look after a high end billing system on a P690, the zSeries's predacessor by two generations or so.
But the big box of tricks is only a very small part of the cost. Switches, routers, cables, SAN machines, the team of people to make it all work and maintain it and such are all big costs.
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Aralieus
Amarr The Inf1dels En Garde
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Posted - 2010.07.09 01:18:00 -
[31]
kk, ony going to say this once (don't want to **** on your chips too much) HTFU...
Fortune favors the bold!!!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken-Tyler Durden |
Mr SmartGuy
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
You're terribly wrong. I can confirm that lag is there, but they are doing something about it - it just takes time (maybe too much time for someone, but still). Read the dev blogs more often and you'll see just how much they invest in this game. Also, two free expansions every year is not investing?
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
You have no clue what you're talking about here
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Please, be my guest. I will personally switch to your bug-free game and cancel my subscription here. Also, "a month". How old are you anyway? (Don't answer that - it was a rhetorical question.) |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Toasting in a sinking ship thread.
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Lord Grimmas
Azure Freelancers
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Toasting in a sinking ship thread.
Nice Boat.
Originally by: Lutz Major From a programmers point of view: ROFLMAO!
This. Fixed it for you.
Of course, it is customary to feed the trolls. Can't believe some of you guys are dignifying the OP with a coherent reply.
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Tethraa KaiSuun
Caldari KaiSuun Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Zelkath Edited by: Zelkath on 08/07/2010 21:44:34
Originally by: neferosis C++ easy to code and still better than python.
Actualy it is Stackless Python. And converting Stackless Python to C++ wouldn't be as easy as you claim. Or have you built a super powerfull libary for C++ to handle microthreads and not relying on the C-stack that you will give to CCP for free?
Is it even possible to port a stackless multi-threaded app to C++? The only thing I can think of is to write it in C and completely ignore the benefit of C++ classes and use the heap instead of the stack. But doing so would mean that you would have to write your own scheduling system that handles the communication between the threads without the use of stack pointers.
~~ Tethraa KaiSuun |
AlZuma
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++...
Its not a python its Stackless Python.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 05:23:00 -
[37]
Quote: Whoever did market coding he did a surprising job compared to people in the past. In apple if you coded like this you would be fired on the spot.
Just by admitting you have the source code to eve is both a ban-able and criminal offense. By admitting you don't have the source code to eve the op means jack ****.
In the immortal words of Lawrence Tierney;
"Whats it gonna be Mr. Pink, my way or the highway? This is clearly a signature. |
Rabid Longcat
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Raimus Kallenden
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard
LOL. You're ridiculous.
FYI: Its rediculous not ridiculous?
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Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lutz Major From a programmers point of view: LOL!
This, essentially :)
OP - If you think that C++ is automagically faster then Python, get a new career. Away from computers.
2nd, its been stated by CCP many times, that the stuff that needs to be C++ is, and the stuff that doesn't, isn't.
TL;DR? It's much easier to make slow/bad code in C++ then Python. Stackless Python is even harder to fubar.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:37:00 -
[40]
Contract with apple?
The OP writes iPhone apps in his bedroom doesn't he?
Oh, and many of the replies on this thread are true (lots saying the same thing in different ways tbh).
===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
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You'wot
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:50:00 -
[41]
It's quite obvious that CCP needs to upgrade to Anacondas as the Pythons are not performing stacked or not.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:56:00 -
[42]
fyi http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs/job-details.aspx?jobid=220
put up or shut up
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The Crushah
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:56:00 -
[43]
Facepalm at OP who thinks doing contract programming work qualifies him to make good business or project management decisions.
Bottom line: Its not in CCP's best interests as a business to even think about rewriting the code. A simple cost benefit analysis would bear that out.
Theres a balance between retaining existing customers and attracting new customers. Again from a business point of view, CCP needs to attract new customers and they do this with new content. DUST and Incarna are perfect examples of new content that will attract new customers. Yes, the existing playerbase would benefit perhaps from an improvment in lag. However, what percentage of existing players actually encounter a lag issue. Usually the lag monster occurs during large fleet battles in 0.0 or low sec. Based on the numbers that CCP puts out occasionally on playerbase that live in these areas, its a minority percentage. CCP has to decide how important it is to appease this minority, who are very vocal btw.
tl;dr Its best if you stick to being told what to program rather than making project management decisions.
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smertz
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:06:00 -
[44]
CCP -- can you please recode the client in fortran. I was thinking hard about this the other night have lag caused my hulk to be ganked and I realized that the client must have to to a lot of calculations to model all the planets stars, wormholes, warp speed, etc and I heard that fortran has great libraries for doing this. I bet if you were doing all of these calculations in fortan it would be a lot faster.
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JamesTalon
Caldari The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Toasting in a sinking ship thread.
Love the sig, he will be missed :(
Originally by: nerfosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Oh oh oh, let me try one!
"Hello, I took a couple classes in high school, and my teacher told me that C++ is the holy grail of programming languages, why don't you use C++ for all your code since its obviously superior in every way to python. I know I don't anything, and I an contracted by IBM, so I can't actually do this for you, even though I could do it in record times, but you need to hire people like me"
Bah, be gone. - "Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in SightblinderÆs eye on the Last Day." - Robert Jordan |
Dr Schadenfreude
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Posted - 2010.07.10 03:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
False. Eve is server + Client devs, graphics artists, build masters, oftware QA guy (whitebox, blackbox, etc), etc.. a sum of its parts. If you cant do EVERYTING - Dev, Art, QA, Ops, etc, you cant do this. And nobody can do it in one month, that statement is absurd. And nobody right perfect code for an entire project, that why QA teams even EXIST.
Originally by: neferosis
Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that.
Your lieing. I have connections at Apple and they have been trying to hire me for years, and you dont eem to fit the profile. From you above statements alone, it is clear you don't have the technical skills you claim. The clear idiocy and lack of professional knowledge and experience your post shows is epic in its clarity.
Originally by: neferosis
But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
I work at a very large (Publicly Traded, etc, etc) software company, and even our best people - we have offices all over the world - could not re-create eve in only a month. You clearly have never actually worked in the software industry.
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Domonique Molvoy
Exploitation Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 03:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Im pretty sure the op is an idiot.
Domonique Molvoy Shiptoasting extraordinaire |
Pesky LaRue
Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.07.10 04:53:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 10/07/2010 04:55:14
Originally by: Rabid Longcat
Originally by: Raimus Kallenden
Originally by: neferosis Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard
LOL. You're ridiculous.
FYI: Its rediculous not ridiculous?
Hoping (for your sake) that you're trying to be funny or ironic...
.
[Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels] |
Sol Lethe
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:15:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Sol Lethe on 10/07/2010 05:15:27 Needs more Haskell IMHO.
http://learnyouahaskell.com/
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drag icefire
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. .
oh dear lord *facepalm*
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:23:00 -
[51]
at somepoint didn't they say they wrote most of the server in python but have gone back and rewritten all the heavy lifting parts in c?
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Ascendic
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:30:00 -
[52]
HEY GAIZ WHY DUNT WE SITCH EVES CWODING TO RATTTTTTTTLESNAKEE INSTEAD?!!!!!?! TEY R SOZ MUC BETTA DAN PYTONS.
I CUD DO EET N 1 WEEK TOP WIT NO INSEXTS
o ya n i wurk 4 granny smith
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SirRalph
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Over 500 000 lines of code transferred from python to C++ less than month?
LMFAO
YOU, FOOL, DON'T HAVE A CLUE, AT ALL!
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:40:00 -
[54]
you claim to work for apple and yet you recommend to use c++ (as opposed to recommending obj c)
this does not add up.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:47:00 -
[55]
I had done something related with a friend. He can code in pascal, c++ and php. I can Python, C/C++. He claimed Python would be way too slow to do things so we madea little competition. I would make a Python program including GUi, that does a (rather simple) computation task and he would do the same in C++. I made the app in Python, except for the core computation, I wrote that in C and made it an Python Extension. We then benchmarked both applications, and my Python program won by a small margin. Probably because of C instead of C++. Nice Sidenote: I didnt even once scream bad language while he was rather frustrated at the GUI Module he chose. While I just programmed it in about an hour, he took several.
TL:DR: If done right, Python is faster than C++
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Ardetia
Killer Koalas R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 08:12:14 all i see are: 1. people underestimating the complexity of mesh networking 2. people overestimating python _scripting language_ look it up please. 3. eliminating external lag is impossible by definition :) but, coding server in c potentially reduces load 4. 1 month my ass.. make it 6 months, with daily builds
i doubt, for what its worth, their server is running on python and finally, going from python to c++, how is that a worthwhile improvement? you mean asm/c for the core?
Tethraa KaiSuun is the only poster here who had a clue
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:27:00 -
[57]
I have 17 lines of qbasic, how can I help?
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:35:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 08:36:16
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 08:12:14 all i see are: 1. people underestimating the complexity of mesh networking 2. people overestimating python _scripting language_ look it up please. 3. eliminating external lag is impossible by definition :) but, coding server in c potentially reduces load 4. 1 month my ass.. make it 6 months, with daily builds
i doubt, for what its worth, their server is running on python and finally, going from python to c++, how is that a worthwhile improvement? you mean asm/c for the core?
Tethraa KaiSuun is the only poster here who had a clue
You dont have a clue either - their server does use Stackless Python Aldo instead of just "looking up" a scripting language, how about using it and seeing for yourself? Also make sure to stop by Psyco, PyPy and Pyrex, along others, that can make or aim at making Python quite fast.
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Ardetia
Killer Koalas R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:17:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 09:17:41
Originally by: Amerilia Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 08:36:16
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 08:12:14 all i see are: 1. people underestimating the complexity of mesh networking 2. people overestimating python _scripting language_ look it up please. 3. eliminating external lag is impossible by definition :) but, coding server in c potentially reduces load 4. 1 month my ass.. make it 6 months, with daily builds
i doubt, for what its worth, their server is running on python and finally, going from python to c++, how is that a worthwhile improvement? you mean asm/c for the core?
Tethraa KaiSuun is the only poster here who had a clue
You dont have a clue either - their server does use Stackless Python Aldo instead of just "looking up" a scripting language, how about using it and seeing for yourself? Also make sure to stop by Psyco, PyPy and Pyrex, along others, that can make or aim at making Python quite fast.
so they're not actually using python the scripting language? because scripting by definition means real-time translation of commands which is effectively a bottleneck no matter how well you do it instead im seeing ie. pypy as a work in progress where python is compiled into native code
aiming at making something quite fast, is not good enough for a world-class mmo i suggest you step back and review reality asm/c is the fastest solution to anything and everything, it always will be any non-native solution will always be second rate, but they aim to make it easier to work with now, im not saying they should replace SQL, because i dont, but _again_ i very much doubt their core facets are in fact python _script_
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:34:00 -
[60]
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
You have 30 days. Go go go!
Item DB | Sigs
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:41:00 -
[61]
CCP, can you recode EVE into Pascal. I heard there's this language called Pascal named after a super cool mathematician. It must be an awesome language because it is named after a mathematician. Python is named after a snake, snakes can't do math. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think...
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:49:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 09:54:48
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 09:40:48
Originally by: Amerilia Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 08:36:16
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 08:12:14 stuff i said
You dont have a clue either - their server does use Stackless Python Aldo instead of just "looking up" a scripting language, how about using it and seeing for yourself? Also make sure to stop by Psyco, PyPy and Pyrex, along others, that can make or aim at making Python quite fast.
so they're not actually using python the scripting language? because scripting by definition means real-time translation of commands which is effectively a bottleneck no matter how well you do it instead im seeing ie. pypy as a work in progress where python is compiled into native code
aiming at making something quite fast, is not good enough for a world-class mmo asm/c is the fastest solution to anything and everything, it always will be, and even faster if you burn it to a ROM any non-native solution will always be second rate, but they aim to make it easier to work with now, im not saying they should replace SQL, because i dont, but _again_ i very much doubt their core facets are in fact python _script_
edit: but im willing to concede, given that CCP does real-time adjustments concerning input well enough to compete with static code, more or less but is mmo programming so simple? only the ones with the code knows for sure :)
They have repetively said, that they use Python as "glue" and for not-so-cpu-intense logical tasks. While the heavy workload is done in C++, which they call "Blue". In other words, they already are at an efficiently very very close to native C++ code, depending on how much runs in python and how much in C++.
This is the usual way to do things if you run into a python bottleneck - you use c or c++; the big advantage of python, to use that form of code as well. I for example ported collision detection and range checking into C for one of my python games not too long ago, to benefit from the speedup, to make it work on older machines. This way is very common for python programmers, if you make programs that need to execute fast (like games).
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ressiv on 10/07/2010 10:22:24
Originally by: neferosis bla bla bla
Maybe come back after you have some real life experience beyond your training ?
This sounds all too much like all those irritating people just graduating from psychiatry and thinking they know how to change all the world in just 5 easy steps.
You just provided some valuable intel on how to justify NOT getting any apple products, ever. This much ignorance can only lead to /fail.
And finaly, what accomplishment that might support your ridiculous claim can you point at as being 'your work' ? I wanna learn, or at least laugh.
Edit: Read up on the complete post, and edited this reply in accordance. ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
SkinSin
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Amerilia I had done something related with a friend. He can code in pascal, c++ and php. I can Python, C/C++. He claimed Python would be way too slow to do things so we madea little competition. I would make a Python program including GUi, that does a (rather simple) computation task and he would do the same in C++. I made the app in Python, except for the core computation, I wrote that in C and made it an Python Extension. We then benchmarked both applications, and my Python program won by a small margin. Probably because of C instead of C++. Nice Sidenote: I didnt even once scream bad language while he was rather frustrated at the GUI Module he chose. While I just programmed it in about an hour, he took several.
TL:DR: If done right, Python is faster than C++
Sorry. This is just f****** stupid. I've bolded the parts for you. All you proved with this is that C can be faster than C++. Go back and write the core computation in Python and then try it again!
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:47:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 10:56:18
Originally by: SkinSin
Originally by: Amerilia I had done something related with a friend. He can code in pascal, c++ and php. I can Python, C/C++. He claimed Python would be way too slow to do things so we madea little competition. I would make a Python program including GUi, that does a (rather simple) computation task and he would do the same in C++. I made the app in Python, except for the core computation, I wrote that in C and made it an Python Extension. We then benchmarked both applications, and my Python program won by a small margin. Probably because of C instead of C++. Nice Sidenote: I didnt even once scream bad language while he was rather frustrated at the GUI Module he chose. While I just programmed it in about an hour, he took several.
TL:DR: If done right, Python is faster than C++
Sorry. This is just f****** stupid. I've bolded the parts for you. All you proved with this is that C can be faster than C++. Go back and write the core computation in Python and then try it again!
Well I actually wrote the core computation in python syntax, which was converted to C and then put into a pyd (python dll). This method can also be accomplished on the fly, see some of the modules I mentioned earlier. There are also some other methods like weave or inline. What I want to say is, you dont need to be able to write C, you can use Python Code and make it C. What I wanted to tell with that example, if they do use C for critical parts, python is not a bottleneck, and that is how CCP uses Python. It was an example to show that a little better. I realize C is not Python, but Python is C ;)
Basically the question shouldnt be to port the Python stuff to C++, it should be whether they should port their C++ stuff to C/Assembler. But I doubt that would help much. The Problem likely lies in the algorythms.
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BBQfire
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:00:00 -
[66]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
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Supervisor Grammel
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:13:00 -
[67]
Please also migrate your database into a natively object oriented format.
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Mr M
Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:25:00 -
[68]
You know Entity could recode all of Eve into C++ in less than a month
...but he's too busy being delicious.
Eve Tribune|EVEgeek|Firebrand Radio |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Overdogs
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
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Makar Kravchenko
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:30:00 -
[70]
This thread could have been stopped with:
Obvious troll is obviousÖ |
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
I think that one was sarcastic, still cant believe so many dont get it.
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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.07.11 07:15:00 -
[72]
Edited by: cyndrogen on 11/07/2010 07:16:16 I couldn't agree more, the product which we pay for with real money does not even come close to the hype generated.... oh but this is just part 1, more will be coming soon. Oh yeah? How about I pay you later then... or to put it in your terms I will pay soon. Payment coming soon!
The eve universe is starting to feel old and dated especially with games like JGE just around the corner offering more features and a much better combat prototype.
I think the eve dev team has lost focus, tyrannis delivered us a half assed product, which feels untested and greatly rushed, they really need to step back and ask themselves a question, did we set out to make a massive online experience with hundreds of pilots fighting in unison, or do we want to release more and more features which have nothing to do with combat.
What would you rather do, click on extractors or take down a death star?
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
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Bilko Bobski
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Posted - 2010.07.11 09:54:00 -
[73]
I've just had a pork pie, it was a melton mowbry and had pickle - untill today I've never been sure whether or not I actually like pickle, but mixed with pork and pastry it's definitely a yes.
Oh and before I forgot - stop spouting nonsense about how you could recode EVE in a month; there's a reason CCP haven't offered you a job.
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Directors Assistant
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:44:00 -
[74]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Thanks, I needed a good giggle.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 12:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Directors Assistant
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Thanks, I needed a good giggle.
Weeeellà he's probably right: he wouldn't be able to spot the bugs, which would make them all that much horribleà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:32:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Pollictor If you can code this in a couple months, can you just make me a new spaceship MMO? I've been looking for a new one to play. I'll even pay ya for it if it doesn't suck. Hop to it buddy!
In C++ please or I won't subscribe.
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certayne
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:34:00 -
[77]
Edited by: certayne on 11/07/2010 14:36:08 assembler
that is all
oh, and a month of unit/regression testing per patch, for the love of god
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:52:00 -
[78]
Originally by: cyndrogen Edited by: cyndrogen on 11/07/2010 07:16:16 I couldn't agree more, the product which we pay for with real money does not even come close to the hype generated.... oh but this is just part 1, more will be coming soon. Oh yeah? How about I pay you later then... or to put it in your terms I will pay soon. Payment coming soon!
The eve universe is starting to feel old and dated especially with games like JGE just around the corner offering more features and a much better combat prototype.
I think the eve dev team has lost focus, tyrannis delivered us a half assed product, which feels untested and greatly rushed, they really need to step back and ask themselves a question, did we set out to make a massive online experience with hundreds of pilots fighting in unison, or do we want to release more and more features which have nothing to do with combat.
What would you rather do, click on extractors or take down a death star?
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Hey look, it's this guy again, pushing his SPACE COMBAT!!!!11! agenda.
In a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with EVE gameplay...
Without saying anything whatsoever on-topic...
Wow. I'm actually kind of embarrassed for you.
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.11 15:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods, I wrote my masters paper on techniques to be most effective in doing so.
So you are one of them Masters/PhD full of interesting theories and zero real world experience using them?
I never forget when I was at college (electrical engineering), some lab students couldn't get their control circuit to work as expected. A bunch of teachers, all of them with multiple PhD in control systems started to pile up around the students to figure out what was wrong...
After several minutes, when these "experts" started theorizing to explain this new "phenomena", another teacher, one with a lot of real life experience in electronics came by, looked at the student's proto-board for a minute, then moved one cable to the next hole and everything started working as expected -- I take offense on people feeling offended by me |
Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Donald Knuth Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
I thought this quote would be relevant to the discussion.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:46:00 -
[81]
OP - post some of your super-duper code on SourceForge or in a zip, and let us decide whether you're working for our game at CCP, mkay?
Item DB | Sigs
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:50:00 -
[82]
http://pastebin.ca This is clearly a signature. |
Beth Nidroski
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Posted - 2010.07.11 19:24:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Beth Nidroski on 11/07/2010 19:29:45 Edited by: Beth Nidroski on 11/07/2010 19:28:41
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium CCP, can you recode EVE into Pascal. I heard there's this language called Pascal named after a super cool mathematician. It must be an awesome language because it is named after a mathematician. Python is named after a snake, snakes can't do math.
QFT. Possibly most epic and accurate comment so far.
Oh and for those who have used this to drop some Apple hate, remember:
1. He says he is working a contract for Apple, not actually an employee of Apple. 2. His base claims are outlandish and unreasonable, so it's safe to assume that his assertion of working with/for/on behalf of Apple is likewise untrue. |
omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods,
nah ur a ****** in ******ing, graduated from the institute of ******s in ******town, in the country of ******ia
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Jason Clutch
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:17:00 -
[85]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods, I wrote my masters paper on techniques to be most effective in doing so. Its quite odd to see ignorant people saying things can't be done..
So if you are such an expert, you do know is a "Dissertation" or "Thesis" not paper, correct?
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:32:00 -
[86]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Just look at how terrible you are.
Blog and Podcast - Twitter: DeclareWar
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Delyaria
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:37:00 -
[87]
In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU! |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:46:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Delyaria In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU!
Well Psyco and PyPy both aim at making Python capable of "reprogramming" itself, so it¦s not that far fetched
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Delyaria
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Posted - 2010.07.12 00:15:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Amerilia
Originally by: Delyaria In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU!
Well Psyco and PyPy both aim at making Python capable of "reprogramming" itself, so it¦s not that far fetched
amg evil languages!
*splashes holy water* The power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!
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Nozzie
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:09:00 -
[90]
Even if you double the code efficiency somehow, you wonÆt reduce lag significantly. The problem is that the computational intensity of fleet fights increases exponentially with the number of players in the fight. A 100% increase in computational capacity or code efficiency will not give you twice as many players in a fight without lag. The only solution would be multi threading, but that would open up a completely different can of worms.
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Riedle
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2010.07.12 13:38:00 -
[91]
Poasting in a geek rage thread
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Claska
Amarr The 8th Tribe Seraphim The Doom Waffle Mafia
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Posted - 2010.07.12 14:19:00 -
[92]
i know iknow, maybe we should re-code eve in LOL code :P
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Celestine Santora
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:59:00 -
[93]
As somebody who has real-world programming/IT experience, I'm not going to bother reading this whole thread and just summarise the only thoughts any intelligent person could have upon reading this thread:
L O L
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.07.12 16:54:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 12/07/2010 16:55:41
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a 9 years with numerous, game-breaking bugs. Unfortunately I have a giant phallus protruding from my head and it gets in the way of my noob iphone app, which I am calling a 'contract with apple', at the moment so I can't help you with that. But i will make sweeping statements about my imaginary job to pretend I know what I'm talking about.
fyp
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Nkurakarin
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Posted - 2010.07.12 19:41:00 -
[95]
MY RAVEN WAS EQUIPPED WITH THE FOLLOWING:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
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