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Danghor
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:32:00 -
[1]
I'm still amazed at the enormous risk CCP is taking for Dust. Many studios have developed failed shooters even after many years of trying and several releases.
I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter, just to see how they'd do with the reviews and the sales, then learn from it before doing the big jump. I don't think people will have patience for a failed shooter, there are so many good shooters that have been played by gamers in the last 10 years, our level of expectation is getting higher mainly because of Crytek, Valve, Activision, EA and Ubisoft who push the envelop every 2 years or so. And even those big names can fumble with the right recipe for success.
I think the right move would have been : -Release of first single player (with MP) shooter by CCP in 2010. Sci-Fi storyline or whatever. -Put all hands on improving the UI and other problems with EVE -Check out the failure (my prediction) of Stargate Worlds by Sky Fire (Unknown company in the shooter world like CCP) -Learn from mistakes of the 2 previously mentioned games -Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot -Creation of DUST.
Here's a very short list of failed shooters. I failed them based on : - the hype before the release and how those games just melted after release - Studio with experience getting a bad review. - Franchise deflating.
I've played PC games since 1996, I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot, below that rating it's a huge gamble and might be a big waste of time, but there are exceptions.
Here's a short list of FAILED games :
Timeshift by Sierra FAIL Area 51 by Midway FAIL Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL Red Faction II by THQ FAIL Chrome by Strategy First FAIL Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL Singularity by Activision FAIL Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:44:00 -
[2]
Timeshift by Sierra FAIL - Never heard of it Area 51 by Midway FAIL - True Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL - WRONG! FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL - Dead wrong Red Faction II by THQ FAIL - yup Chrome by Strategy First FAIL- Yup Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL - What? Singularity by Activision FAIL - Yup Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL - Yup S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL - I will end you! (in-game) Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL - yup Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL - Not on console Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL - meh Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL - I F***ING LOVE THAT GAME!!!!
Originally by: captain foivos
It's not griefing, it's surprise PvP.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:50:00 -
[3]
OPF:DR (Codemasters version of OFP2) Released with only P2P game hosting (as DUST will likely be) 60% discounted 2 weeks after release. Community sites closed 3 weeks after release.
Console FPS are not long-standing solid products, they are barely functioning product dumped on a market, that will buy anything and everything for $100 a piece.
Even the good FPS console games are gone within a few short months while the next one moves in for their cash-grab.
Amazing risk, can understand the motivation to grow the Eve universe, but growing it onto a market that is so transient? Then CCP says they don't have dev time for Eve Online because they're spending it on DUST??
At least if it were a good PC FPS with dedicated servers it would still be played in 5-10 years.
If released as console only with P2P game hosting, I predict 3 months before the player count is 10% of what it is at launch.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:51:00 -
[4]
So because some fps failed you are mad about dust?
If CCP has shown anything over the years it is testicular fortitude and willingness to do something new, like a fps overlayed with a mmo where we interact.
Personally I can't wait to irradiate Dust-bunnies from orbit. I know I won't be allowed to from early on but I'm hoping we can get direct interaction some day.
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
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Valorous Bob
The Real OC Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:54:00 -
[5]
Dust will be an automatic win if console players will be able to walk in stations with EVE players and gape at our gargantuan space-vehicles-of-destruction and our even bigger e-peens.
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Stick Cult
Unspoken Autonomy.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:56:00 -
[6]
Quote: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
What the **** are you on about? In sales, it's not a failure. Sure, the crowd might be teenage guys, but it is most certainly NOT a fail. I think overhyped a little, and I don't like the map map packs, but certainly not a fail.
Also, not that I think Dust will be the best shooter ever, but CCP has been working on it for a while, and has 2 studios working on it now.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Anaslex
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Galan Amarias
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
Seconded!!
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Valorous Bob
The Real OC Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Even the good FPS console games are gone within a few short months while the next one moves in for their cash-grab.
WTF, what console games do you play? My friends and I played the **** out of Halo 2 pretty consistently until Halo 3 came out, and then played the **** out of that for a good year and a half. Sure theres always the people that just play the FOTM, but **** those people tbh.
Originally by: Galan Amarias
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
Hahaha yes! (Even though lots of us will play dust too)
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Arkanor
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Arkanor on 10/07/2010 06:25:35
Originally by: Danghor I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot
That's a pretty arbitrary benchmark, there ARE other review houses, and the number is simply a very very simplified figure.
Originally by: Danghor
Here's a short list of FAILED games : <A few other games on this list are fairly good, Stalker, Serious Sam, RB6-2> Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
OK, let me stop you there. The game made $1,000,000,000 in ten weeks, not bad for a "failed" game.
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Tribunia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:37:00 -
[10]
Figuring out why it s console and not PC should be made into it s own research field and people most successful in it be given the nobel price of ****ing binkybonky.
They gone mad.
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 10/07/2010 06:51:08
Originally by: Danghor I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot
Gamespot HAS to review a high-profile game well or their staff gets fired!
GERSTMANNGATE!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!! _________________________________________ Support the "Seed Primae on the market and ORE LP Stores" proposal! Click here |
Ascendic
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:09:00 -
[12]
CCP view on dust >>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU EVE PLAYER BASE My view on dust >>>>>>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU CCP
Hey how about you guys fix this ****ing game that is actually the only thing supporting you ****ing company FIRST before rolling out more ****ty ass games that dont work properly. K?
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Jason filigree
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:37:00 -
[13]
Why would anybody make a game going for less than a success.
Making a game you donĘt expect to succeed is just a waste of time and money
Edward
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:38:00 -
[14]
It's in my eyes, stealin my FW fixes. -----------------------------
>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
Jonna Bluemoon
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:43:00 -
[15]
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta.. And it has been doing that for, what, 3-4 years now..
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Kesta Sovek
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kesta Sovek on 10/07/2010 08:04:06
Originally by: Danghor I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter
Probably for the same reason they didn't release a simple MMO. Personally, I'm tired of simple shooters. There are thousands of them already. If I wanted simple I'd be playing Modern Warfare 2 instead of sitting here posting about DUST 514.
Originally by: Stick Cult Edited by: Stick Cult on 10/07/2010 05:59:22
Quote: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
What the **** are you on about? In sales, it's not a failure. Sure, the crowd might be teenage guys, but it is most certainly NOT a fail. I think overhyped a little, and I don't like the map map packs, but certainly not a fail. It's also not a -bad- game, I quite enjoy it myself. Just don't play it on xbox, the immature 12 year olds **** me off... On PC it's good though.
On PC it's good?! It doesn't have dedicated servers or mod support. Such a thing is heresy! You should be pimp slapped for that remark.
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Im Blue
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ascendic CCP view on dust >>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU EVE PLAYER BASE My view on dust >>>>>>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU CCP
Hey how about you guys fix this ****ing game that is actually the only thing supporting you ****ing company FIRST before rolling out more ****ty ass games that dont work properly. K?
QFT Spend the money we give you for eve, fixing eve. **** dust
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta.. And it has been doing that for, what, 3-4 years now..
Shanghai and now Newcastle are console according to press releases. Which IIRC refer to console games - so it is more than just DUST.
But even if console games may be hugh risk, it may be a better business decision than investing in EVE. CCP can stick with their older, single-threaded, 32-bit DX9 codebase. Or rewrite it ( shudders. painful death. ) Worse, most of the things that would increase EVE revenue ( more accessible skilling, reduced time sinks, more PvE ) are vehemently opposed by many current EVE customers. I can see console gaming looking attractive.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 10/07/2010 08:56:33 What I fear most, is the connection between Dust and EVE. What will most likely happen is, that even when it is a good game console players will play it for a month or two and then throw it aside when next Call of Duty or Halo Title appears.
The game mechanic in connection to may fail because not enough attackers or defenders could be found for a planetary invasion, which in the end might cause an entire to campaign in EVE to fail.
I am sorry but console shooters are always on the short lived and short attention span side of gameplay and this does not mix well with EVE.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:02:00 -
[20]
Saturday mornings used to be fun.
I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water. I'd then take a few moments to butter some muffins and apply generous amounts of strawberry jam to them, before taking the coffee, and the muffins, to the PC.
One of the very first things I'd do is jump onto the forums and see what the trolls had decided to bring to the table, and in days gone by, they would bring me mirth and merriment wrapped up in well-thought-out-trollage about the inequities of the balance in EVE.
Nowadays, they don't even try.
AK
OT: Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it. EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS |
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:03:00 -
[21]
as has been stated the console market is very fluid,
dust will either have a small dedicated force, console alts of eve players or fade into obscurity very quickly,
in any case it means once dust is finally out it wont take long for it to endup being something thats just there and all the devs can come back and work on the flagship product eve Me? im just sitting here,
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 10/07/2010 10:03:58 I think DUST'll do okay. I think it has a shot at release success, but more importantly it has us, even if we don't choose to play. DUST will have a place to validate the goings on in-game, and for people to gain notoriety and for whose attention they can compete.
Not to mention, as long as /we're/ there, then so will DUST. It'll always have a kind of playerbase and I'm sure it'll develop a nice, loyal playerbase, however small, and once you have that /and/ the EVE player's to back it, I think it'll trundle along quite happily, mayhap seeing playerspikes here and there especially if publicity is well managed.
Certainly, I think they're doing the right choice going all-or-nothing with it, though. Sure, cautiously releasing first a single player one or the like, and building from there's safer.. but the chances of failure increase exponentially that way.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Invicta.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:06:00 -
[23]
I guess it all depends on what kind of game Dust is going to be, if CCP are aiming towards your typical shooter it will have difficulty competing with "Call of duty 32 future warfare episode 6" but if they are trying to make a planetside type game it could be a success and attract a long term following the way games like Mechwarrior did if the game mechanics are good and the product is generally polished.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:01:00 -
[24]
OP says he considers MW2 FAIL? It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day. Developers dream of failingnlike that lol. OP is another PC biased idiot who can't see past his keyboard and mouse. Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:06:00 -
[25]
One word on Dust - JTAG. Nuff said ;)
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:09:00 -
[26]
I too dislike dust, is seems every time I clean it up from my home it comes back within a few days anyways. Damn you CCP for making even more dust.
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Eric Policky
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij OP says he considers MW2 FAIL? It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day. Developers dream of failingnlike that lol. OP is another PC biased idiot who can't see past his keyboard and mouse. Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.
Just to emphasize that the OP is an idiot for saying MW2 is a failure: There are currently 116,777 players on playlists for MW2 on XBox360 (on playlists meaning currently playing the game online). There are currently 22,865 players on Tranquility. There are more than 5 times as many players actively playing MW2 right now on XBox alone (the title is also available on other platforms) than EVE. If MW2 is a failure, surely OP must consider EVE a failure for only attracting an audience 20% the size of a portion of the MW2 audience.
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Duke Blake
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:29:00 -
[28]
Sheep will always need a shepherd........
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:52:00 -
[29]
Edited by: ZenSun on 10/07/2010 12:52:18
Originally by: AlleyKat Saturday mornings used to be fun.
I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water. I'd then take a few moments to butter some muffins and apply generous amounts of strawberry jam to them, before taking the coffee, and the muffins, to the PC.
One of the very first things I'd do is jump onto the forums and see what the trolls had decided to bring to the table, and in days gone by, they would bring me mirth and merriment wrapped up in well-thought-out-trollage about the inequities of the balance in EVE.
Nowadays, they don't even try.
AK
OT: Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it.
Confirming this is an absolute gem.
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YouKnowYouWannaDoIt
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Posted - 2010.07.10 13:28:00 -
[30]
The OP has "some" very good points and other have posted some as well.
- Dust IS running in a highly competitive market, and on top of that, one known for its short attention span. - It's running on the UT3 engine, which means, even if its improved on, it won't be drastically better visually than UT3 itself was. - CCP is hoping the strategic element and connection to Eve will prove both a bonus for Eve (more subs out of curiosity) and for Dust as Eve players move to play it. This is quite frankly the ONLY unique feature of the game.
How will it pan out?
- It could be a long term success, in that it might garner a core group of dedicated players from Eve and some new ones who enjoy the social and strategic elements. - It will most likely NOT bring many new long term players to Eve, as consoles FPS games are far more ad hock that our favourite Excel in space game, Eve, and most curious players will probably still leave as they do now (Read almost any gaming forum, the comments of people who have tried Eve are usually negative). - It might bring people from Eve to Dust, but I seriously doubt that the population of Eve who play console FPS games will be enough to sustain Dust. - It might bring many new players out of curiosity, interested in the unique strategic aspects, and this I suspect, will be the make or break feature for Dust. It does however, require that CCP get this right the first time around, and, to be sadly honest, CCP's abilities in that area up until now have been nothing less than terrible. People play Eve despite the lag, bugs and terrible UI, not because of it.
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