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Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:48:00 -
[1]
PLEX When this was first introduced I thought at the time it was a novel way from an MMO producer to benefit from the inevitable secondary market that will exist for players wanting to exchange real world currency for in game currency.
This naturally is beneficial to the company involved that produces the MMO since it directly has a monopoly over ôlegalö RMT sales. A ôplayerö purchases game time from the ôcompanyö and sellÆs it to another ôplayerö for that ôplayersö in game wealth. The gaming company is simply the middle man involved and game time becomes a purchasable, tradable service that can ôlegallyö used to mediate the exchange of real world currency for virtual currency.
Everybody wins in this scenario. The company makes money in terms of advanced subscription sales, (borrowing from the future). The player purchasing the PLEX receives the isk he wanted without the repercussions of utilizing the secondary black market. And finally the player purchases the PLEX from the other player enjoys the freedom of being able to put forth their in-game expertise and knowledge to essentially play the game for free.
The recent changes CCP is making concerning the transportation of the PLEXÆs are of no concern, however the inevitable and certain possibility these in game items can be permanently be DESTROYED is unacceptable. It is simply an attempt to reduce liabilities already promised to individuals that sought to utilize the PLEX is CCPÆs defacto ôlegalö way of RMT sales. It that extremely fine print, its only purpose of existing is to cover any available avenue to completely screw you out of your money.
ôwe donÆt like items having ôspecial statusö in game.ö
If any item ever existed in eve that warranted ôspecial statusö it would certainly have to be a PLEX, any game mechanic that would be authored by your company to remove these from the game without them first being redeemed for their full face value of 30 days subscription is outright fraud, and just plain wrong.
PLEXÆs should be indestructible.
Change it.
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Domonique Molvoy
Exploitation Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:56:00 -
[2]
Oh look, another of these threads. Domonique Molvoy Shiptoasting extraordinaire |
Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:00:00 -
[3]
I just got home and read this from work.
It's just plain wrong and completely obvious why they would want this to happen. As a player having played this game for the past 7 years I've never seen this company deliberately try to cheat anyone out of any RL wealth they may have spent to better then gaming experience.
This is the only issue I would even consider running for the vacant CSM slot for, it's just plain wrong. I would wish this on no fellow pilot.
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:01:00 -
[4]
So if I buy a capship using a couple of PLEX, that one should be indestructible, too? Awesome, I support this idea! -
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Emma Royd
Caldari Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:07:00 -
[5]
Why should a plex be indestructible?
If you don't want to fly with them in your cargo hold then don't fly with them in your cargo hold, plain and simple.
Surely it's not rocket science, if you want to buy gtc to redeem in to plex for sale, then make sure you're in the station you want to be before you redeem items.
Grow a set of cahoonies, is it any different than carrying a faction shield booster around in your cargo hold to sell? just had a look at contracts and a Pithum C-Type medium is higher value than a plex for example.
If you don't like it, then don't use them, it's a commodity. Where on earth do you get "Fraud" from?, CCP graciously made it easier for successful players to play for free by purchasing plex from the market, so if you can make 300+ isk million a month then you can play for free, they now change it so the metaphorical bit of paper you get isn't stapled to the desk any more, and you can take it out and move it about.
I can't see a difference between a plex and someone who sells a plex and buys a shield booster with the isk, does that item then have "special status" since it was bought with the proceeds of something with "special status"
If you feel the need to emoragequit as you do seem quite angry, then please feel free to GIZ UR STUFF TO ME
It's a game, and nothing to be taken that seriously.
+_+
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity |
Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:09:00 -
[6]
I don't think you see CCP selling any sort of capital ships directly to consumers. Every good in eve has an exchange value which is set between the parties involved in the trade. However CCP sells game time which in and of itself is simply another form of currency to make transactions between the real world and the virtual seamless.
ItÆs not an item itÆs a form of legal RMT currency. This by any angle you look at it an attempt to increase the profitability of that currency. If you sold some virtual dollars that were never spent guess what? You just made money for NOTHING.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal I don't think you see CCP selling any sort of capital ships directly to consumers. Every good in eve has an exchange value which is set between the parties involved in the trade. However CCP sells game time which in and of itself is simply another form of currency to make transactions between the real world and the virtual seamless.
ItÆs not an item itÆs a form of legal RMT currency. This by any angle you look at it an attempt to increase the profitability of that currency. If you sold some virtual dollars that were never spent guess what? You just made money for NOTHING.
You are paying CCP for an in game item which you WILL have the opportunity to redeem. If you choose to move it, its because you're hoping to make extra profit in some way... and given that you can fly somewhere and redeem it directly at the buying station, you're almost certainly a plex trader.
Sorry man.
Also, if PLEX were made indestructible, I WOULD suicide gank, even at the cost of T2 fit BS, every single hauler I see with PLEX. Free game time.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Emma Royd
Caldari Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal ItÆs not an item itÆs a form of legal RMT currency. This by any angle you look at it an attempt to increase the profitability of that currency. If you sold some virtual dollars that were never spent guess what? You just made money for NOTHING.
I beg to differ, an GTC/ETC is not an 'Item', the moment you redeem that into the 2x Plex then they become 'items', and should be freely moved around, if not, then you shouldn't be able to sell them, nor should you be able to trade one to your alt to extend their subscription.
+_+
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity |
Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Also, if PLEX were made indestructible, I WOULD suicide gank, even at the cost of T2 fit BS, every single hauler I see with PLEX. Free game time. -Liang
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, it would be a perfectly ethical and legal way of preventing the plex's from being transported in the first place. Nobody is really asking "why" the change was necessary in the first place. To that I answer they simply want the plex's to be destroyed already.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, it would be a perfectly ethical and legal way of preventing the plex's from being transported in the first place. Nobody is really asking "why" the change was necessary in the first place. To that I answer they simply want the plex's to be destroyed already.
Anyone who is transporting a PLEX is almost certain to not be the person who actually bought the PLEX with RL $$. Simple fact: if their sole interest was converting it to ISK, they'd fly to the right station, redeem it, and sell it. No, anyone transporting PLEX is operating as a PLEX trader and hoping to move items from one place to another for profit.
By this time, it really is just another item in game.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Emma Royd
Originally by: Nemi Lethal ItÆs not an item itÆs a form of legal RMT currency. This by any angle you look at it an attempt to increase the profitability of that currency. If you sold some virtual dollars that were never spent guess what? You just made money for NOTHING.
I beg to differ, an GTC/ETC is not an 'Item', the moment you redeem that into the 2x Plex then they become 'items', and should be freely moved around, if not, then you shouldn't be able to sell them, nor should you be able to trade one to your alt to extend their subscription.
This is not about "items" this is about currency exchange.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal baah
Grow up you big baby.
You know a PLEX can be destroyed: be smart about it then, its no big deal.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal This is not about "items" this is about currency exchange.
The currency exchange already happened. The person who did it got what they paid for. I don't see why this is problematic?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:43:00 -
[14]
case in point- as has already been pointed out, to the person who is actually moving them they are items they bought them cheap in station x and are taking them to station y to sell high, its no longer about gametime its about trading an object to try and gain isk through market fluctuations
why is this a special case? why does this get special treatment
and the statement about uniqueness is just plain false
as i stated elsewhere IF ccp only sold 100 plex a day and that was it, flat cap, flat maximum, then each plex destroyed would be a permanent irreplaceable loss of 30days of time from a fixed pool that could be depleted, at this point allowing plex to be destroyed would be unfair on the end users of plex,
BUT THATS NOT WHATS HAPPENING there is an unlimited volume of plex, therefore what people dont get is
PLEX IS NOT GAMETIME ITS AN IOU OR CONTRACT FOR GAMETIME
if the plex is destroyed the owed time cannot be claimed but said time still exists in essence,
and of course lastly the rules clearly state everything in game is ccp's the game is ccp's they kindly permit you to play their game which they can change the rules of as they see fit, and everytime they change said rules they let you accept them and play their game or refuse and go away,
Me? im just sitting here,
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:44:00 -
[15]
Again itÆs completely about the integrity of the exchange than anything else, as it was before a player could purchase this alternative currency and make a informed decision on how to spend it without threat that it could somehow be ôlostö due to unforeseeable circumstances.
By simply making it possible for this service to become ôlostö is a direct assault on that integrity for the clear and purposefully attempt to increase their own personal wealth at the expense of others.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:55:00 -
[16]
but to those who are buying and selling the plex directly there is no need to use the risk element meaning there is no risk to their transaction,
Person A - Buys plex for real cash, CCP owes him a duty to provide the codes which he can apply or sell, he logs in redeems and sells, ccp has fulfilled its obligation to him
Person B - Buys plex off market with isk, he then directly or remotly applies said time to his account, ccp has completed its obligation to provide the owner of a plex time,
Person C - wants to try and margin trade, ccp does not owe him anything
therefore the two people ccp owe a duty to are unaffected, and so would you also have wrecks containing plex be indestructible so they cant be smartbombed? and as you dont think its wrong someone else can steal said plex from the wreck the truth is
You are Pro Pirate or a Pirate and wish to make life easier for them, a true anti pirate would be anti the change not pro indestructible Me? im just sitting here,
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:01:00 -
[17]
The whole change is about removing artificial restrictions on items and you want to impose new restrictions?
Not supported, even a suicide gank on a T1 Hauler full of Plex should have at least the risk of earning the ganker nothing.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Emma Royd
Caldari Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:46:00 -
[18]
I've yet to see a convincing argument against the change. I'm not a pirate, don't trade in plex, I pay for my accounts with cold hard cash, so to be honest it won't really affect me, but trying to relate a plex to real life cash is rubbish.
Once it has been converted from a etc it's connection with real life cash ceases, and it becomes a game item.
The contract you form when you buy the etc has been completed once you either apply it directly to your account for the 60 days subscription addition, or convert it to plex and get 2x 30 day plex which are yours to do with as you please.
If you choose to fly them around in an iteron 5 untanked and called "Free Plex, please shoot me" and take it into griefville central just for lulls then that's your choice.
Please stop trying to compare them to real life issues, they're not.
If they're capable of being moved in a ship out of the station then they should be treated exactly as any other item you can fly around, stand the same chance of being ganked and the same chance of being destroyed in resulting gankage as anything else.
I fail to see any reason in your argument, what do you want CCP to do? give any ship invulnerability when carrying a plex so they can't be ganked? design a special ship that is only for carrying plex which isn't gankable?
Everything in eve has consequences, if you are prepared to take the risk of moving them around and treating a plex as a normal market commodity, be able to buy cheaper at 1 station and move them to another to sell higher and make a profit, then surely you can see there must be a risk applied to this process, otherwise where would it stop?
It's a dead issue, ccp have made their decision on it, and the way I see it is you have 3 choices, ragequit, don't move them around in space, or adapt and carry on. +_+
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:52:00 -
[19]
Why all the whine threads about making them indestructible? That's a suicide gank heaven for some.
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Domonique Molvoy Oh look, another of these threads.
For some reason this totally made my day
Fix webs, cya.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:59:00 -
[21]
Plexes are also destroyed when you apply them as gametime.
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Terro Deagas
Double-Down
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:00:00 -
[22]
PLEX = Any other item which is worth isk.
A PLEX is no different than any other item that costs around 300 mil. This has been said, but it seems to need to be repeated.
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:00:00 -
[23]
Why would CCP do that? The whole point of this change is for (some of) these items to get destroyed. |
Roosterton
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Posted - 2010.07.10 13:48:00 -
[24]
If you have a stack of deadspace loot which you were going to sell and use to get your next PLEX but get ganked going to Jita and lose it all, you now have to pay $15 for your next month of gametime. End result, you lose $15, CCP gains $15.
If you buy a PLEX for $15 and get the bright idea to transport it somewhere, then get ganked, you don't get your gametime, you lose $15 and CCP makes $15.
A PLEX basically is just another commodity at this point. This is not a dark evil ploy by CCP, it is simply giving the option to some who would want to move them for trading purposes, or redeem them at non-NPC stations.
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Demolishar
Internet Spaceship Raiders
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:16:00 -
[25]
PLEXes are not "just another item", because there is NO way to manufacture them in game. They have to be bought with RL cash, so every PLEX destroyed means the playerbase must spend more RL cash (unlike everything else, which can be manufactured if you grind for long enough) But I really don't see the point in protesting over this, since CCP will do it anyway purely to satisfy their greed. To add insult to the injury, they don't even have to justify this move - their army of fanbois means no justification is nescessary.
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Demolishar unlike everything else, which can be manufactured if you grind for long enough
/fail on the fact that in order to grind, you need gametime, thus invest $.
PLEX is an instant way to turn gametime into ISK, other then that its quite useless. The fact that some people use PLEX as a way to 'pay' for their subscription doesnt change that at all.
If there wherent any people converting $ into PLEX to get more ISK fast, there wouldnt be any PLEX in the game at all.
By the very nature of the PLEX, it is only usefull to convert cash into isk, and the side effect of that is some players not having to use $ to play EVE.
Since the PLEX system is very flexible in how you use it, there is no reason to undock with them, thus there is no reason for them to be destroyed, thus all you people are crying about is that you got more freedom then you can handle.
Tho, and I find this very amusing, the people on the baricades over it, are all stating THEY wont undock with them, but they want to protect the ppl that might be foolish enough to let potential gametime get destroyed.
In other words, some of you feel the need to guard others from destroying your possible 'free' gametime, thus making it harder for you to play for 'free' ...
'free' = I earn enough ISK ingame to be able to PLEX my subscription with revenue from whatever activity I do, while still retaining enough ISK to be able to use it in-game as well.
========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Misanthra
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:57:00 -
[27]
stuff in stations is indestructible....if you leave it there, I will guarantee no loss in ganking will occur.
If it bothers you that much....jump clones. Leave one in your plex station to sell if away. Or...find out best plex buy order price and fly some clone to there then claim it. Last but not least double wrap the plex in a courier or corp hangar in an orca. No one will see you claimed plex at the wrong jita 4-4 lol....
Want to fly 6 months of game time in pos t1 industrial, something should be screaming this a bad idea before you hit undock. A pirate ganking you just reinforcing that for the next time you have a stupidity overload moment.
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putopugno
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:04:00 -
[28]
Wait I got it, when you destroy a ship containing a PLEX the PLEX self destructs causing a massive amount of AOE damage (kinda like the old doomsday weapons) and everyone on the grid loses sec status for having the cheek to even looking at this PLEX space warrior.
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente DarkStar Armada One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:25:00 -
[29]
I find it completely amazing that any one of you would actually want this scenario to befall you or others. The entire point of why this is a different case in point is the simple fact a PLEX does not share the same dynamic of every other item in eve.
Being able to transport themà No problem
Having them pop out of your cargoàNo problem
Selling an exclusive game item you have complete control over for real money and setting up the rules in a way where it is inevitable it will be destroyedàThatÆs a problem, thatÆs unethical.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nemi Lethal I find it completely amazing that any one of you would actually want this scenario to befall you or others.
If I bought a plex and I'm selling it, it won't happen to me. If I'm moving PLEX between hubs to make a quick buck, its no different than if I triaged any other expensive item in Eve.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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