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Antarea Starfallis
Caldari Farsight Systems Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:11:00 -
[1]
I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:25:00 -
[2]
Cannot fit bombs on anything other than a bomber.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:48:00 -
[3]
àor, how about letting the bombers have their well-defined role in peace and not go for the "bigger is better" fallacy? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Vormico
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Posted - 2010.07.22 17:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
So you want a BS that has a full rack of bomb launchers, so you can shoot 8 bombs in one pull of the trigger?
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Antarea Starfallis
Caldari Farsight Systems Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:09:00 -
[5]
I forgot to use patented "Troll B Gone"tm when posting this message and apologize to the greater community for feeding them...
Anyone have an educated openminded response or is this the wrong room?
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Celeste Darklighter
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis Anyone have an educated openminded response or is this the wrong room?
Yes: why do you feel the need to encroach on the stealth bomber's unique role? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Limvala Adur
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis Anyone have an educated openminded response or is this the wrong room?
Yes: why do you feel the need to encroach on the stealth bomber's unique role?
Then, mind sharing the unique role of the Battleship class?
Don't take me wrong, I'm not in favor of giving Battleship hulls bombs, however I'm also not favor of some ships being given "unique roles" and others being plain and simple +1s.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Limvala Adur
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis Anyone have an educated openminded response or is this the wrong room?
Yes: why do you feel the need to encroach on the stealth bomber's unique role?
Then, mind sharing the unique role of the Battleship class?
Don't take me wrong, I'm not in favor of giving Battleship hulls bombs, however I'm also not favor of some ships being given "unique roles" and others being plain and simple +1s.
The "Unique role" thing is a standard that's mainly applied to tech 2 ships, not tech 1.
Thus, there are black ops, whose unique role is to serve as a mobile gate for covops gangs, and marauders, whose unique role is PvE meltface. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Limvala Adur Then, mind sharing the unique role of the Battleship class?
Damage projection. And yes, it's not a very well-defined role, but that's how most T1 ships are and it's something of a problem for all of them. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Antarea Starfallis
Caldari Farsight Systems Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.07.22 21:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Celeste Darklighter
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
A good response.
1: You want agility for the aiming - made unnecessary by simply firing the weapon based on position of the targetting lock when fired. Maybe its too game-changing of an idea, or maybe aiming the nose of a battleship where you want the bombs to go may also be enough of a balance to make it less abused.
2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op - not if the bombs miss and not if the bonuses/penalties of the bs made it a low ROF high yeild alternative to Torps. 4 launcher slots would be enough to make it a unique weapon platform.
3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op - that may be true, even with ship penalties/bonuses to turn it into a "cannoneer" ship. Perhaps a projectile version of the tachyon would be more in fitting with the spirit behind this design. I just like to ask questions about why "unique" things are unique in the game and not used by others. Its kind of a niche thing and maybe thats fine, but maybe it can be used another way. A fast ship would have an advantage in closing faster, thus making the bomb more likely to hit for full, but a battleship has issues with getting in range (see blaster BS). Its just an idea and a curiousity, hence my reason for asking.
4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB. - because there is no need to keep it unique if it can be useful outside of a SB. The SB can stealth and a 4pack of SB pilots can do the same thing as this BS, but can maneuver away. A ship without stealth using bombs becomes a dps threat, but also has the drawbacks of being slow and cumbersome. Interestingly enough, you could also say that this sort of ship would be ideal for use against caps, carriers and POS while also being open to direct fire meaning it requires good support, which is the basic premise between frigate and battleship anyways.
Make of it what you will. Its just something to ponder...
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Xereyn
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Posted - 2010.07.23 01:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis
4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB. - because there is no need to keep it unique if it can be useful outside of a SB. The SB can stealth and a 4pack of SB pilots can do the same thing as this BS, but can maneuver away. A ship without stealth using bombs becomes a dps threat, but also has the drawbacks of being slow and cumbersome. Interestingly enough, you could also say that this sort of ship would be ideal for use against caps, carriers and POS while also being open to direct fire meaning it requires good support, which is the basic premise between frigate and battleship anyways.
Except a battleship is not "a ship without stealth". Nothing stops you fitting a cloaking device to a battleship - I've done it. The drawback is that your lock speed becomes hideously slow, which isn't that much of a problem if you're launching bombs.
I agree with the people who think this is just a bad idea. You *are* falling for the "bigger is better" fallacy, or why do you need it to be battleship-sized?
The thing is, bombs are going to be overpowered gameplay-killers unless their functionality is limited the way it currently is - where effective use of bombs depends on using dedicated ships that require care and co-ordination to be genuinely devastating. This is an area where, right now, things are actually working well. Bombs and bombers are useful and effective without being overpowered.
There's just not a good reason, in there, to introduce a new platform to do the same thing bombers do, but in ways that are going to be just about impossible to keep well-balanced with other ships - including but not restricted to stealth bombers.
A lot of EVE is a little bit broken. A little bit of EVE is a lot broken. Messing around with the bits that aren't broken at all is a wincingly terrible idea.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.07.23 02:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Celeste Darklighter
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
Because they aren't trolls just pricks?
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Penker
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Posted - 2010.07.23 07:53:00 -
[14]
Go for a dreadnought: the Phoenix can do 10k DPS or 100k volley damage (in theory). Would that be enough for u?
U wouldn't hit anything that moves in your L3 missions but go for the Arrrrrr
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Headerman
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Posted - 2010.07.23 08:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Penker Go for a dreadnought: the Phoenix can do 10k DPS or 100k volley damage (in theory). Would that be enough for u?
U wouldn't hit anything that moves in your L3 missions but go for the Arrrrrr
^^^ Word.
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Antarea Starfallis
Caldari Farsight Systems Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.07.24 12:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xereyn
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis
A lot of EVE is a little bit broken. A little bit of EVE is a lot broken. Messing around with the bits that aren't broken at all is a wincingly terrible idea.
I can respect this. Its not that I'd want to do tremendous amounts of damage without drawbacks and as I stated above, its possible that a projectile version of the tach is probably closer to what I was considering with this idea. I'm definitely not trying to break the game here, nor do I want to use capitals.
As for the bigger is better argument, I think a lot of people lose perspective in this game and start thinking that one way in particular is better than the others. If the mission levels didn't follow a size increase = capability increase model, then it would open up more possibilities. Like if there were Level 1-4 that were designed for JUST frigate/destroyer sized ships, level 1-4 missions JUST for cruisers/BCs and then Level 1-4 missions just for battleships with similar payouts across the board (a L4 frigate mish pays as well as a L4 BS mish), then the design would be more balanced towards desired playstyles over bigger is better. When I first started playing, I greatly desired to continue flying frigates into the higher and higher missions, and even though its possible under some circumstances, its also a lot slower too (with the exception of some niche ships). I believe a level 4 mission in a battleship shouldn't feel like a level 2 mission in a cruiser, but often it does.
Anyhow, thanks for the responses.
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AtheistOfFail
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.07.24 16:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Celeste Darklighter
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
You said wildly inappropiate. I just couldn't resist posting. PSBADPUP > I was trying to salvage a minmatar wreck for 10 minutes, until he started firing at me.
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Penker
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Posted - 2010.07.26 07:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis ... If the mission levels didn't follow a size increase = capability increase model, then it would open up more possibilities. Like if there were Level 1-4 that were designed for JUST frigate/destroyer sized ships, level 1-4 missions JUST for cruisers/BCs and then Level 1-4 missions just for battleships with similar payouts across the board (a L4 frigate mish pays as well as a L4 BS mish), then the design would be more balanced towards desired playstyles over bigger is better. ...
LOLWUT? Dude, you can fly any L3 and even some L4 missions with a T2 frig. The L4s, where you lack DPS, you can easily fly with a T2 cruiser. I haven't done any L5s in a T3 solo, but maybe this is possible, too.
Just ask around. It's real fun flying missions with frigs.
I remember when I played the Angel Blockade with my Cerberus, and a ninja came by. I triggered the next wave and all NPCs targeted the poor fella at once, because he came in with a salvage-cane. Maybe he freaked or what, but he didn't make it out
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Valoric Liao
Gallente Ethos Mining and Logistics
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Posted - 2010.07.27 17:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Celeste Darklighter
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
You said wildly inappropiate. I just couldn't resist posting.
Now a WIDOT thread: confirm/deny? ________________________________________ Eve For Fun! - July 21st: I'm getting my ass handed to me. Handily. |
BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.27 17:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis
If the mission levels didn't follow a size increase = capability increase model, then it would open up more possibilities. Like if there were Level 1-4 that were designed for JUST frigate/destroyer sized ships, level 1-4 missions JUST for cruisers/BCs and then Level 1-4 missions just for battleships with similar payouts across the board (a L4 frigate mish pays as well as a L4 BS mish) Anyhow, thanks for the responses.
I kinda see where you're going. E.g. a l4 bs mission would have more bs's and a l4 frig mission would have more frigs. If you kept the amount of npc's constant and the bounties the same, then they should take the same time to finish with the same isk reward...Not bad..
The only issue with this is that no-one will take the time to get proficient in a bs as you can just train the quicker frigate ship skills and support skills...Though perhaps tha could be countered for with lp rewards...
Hey it'd make mission running a bit more dynamic at least
Though I still don't really like the idea of a bomb-launching BS EVE Trivia EVE History
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.07.28 00:23:00 -
[21]
Letting bomb launcher be fitted on any high slot would be pretty lol.
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AtheistOfFail
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Valoric Liao
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Celeste Darklighter
Originally by: Antarea Starfallis I was thinking about alternative weapons platforms for battleships and although there don't seem to be any battleships out there with bonuses for this, is it at all possible to use them at present? If not, what new ship/bonuses could use bombs as a possible main weapon platform?
I kinda had the thought of how cool it would be as a minmatar alternate weapon that had a much faster launch acceleration thereby making it a projectile of sorts. It'd model after oldschool cannons, but I'm not sure how the aiming and lack of guidance would work.
Bombs in their eve form are wildly inappropriate for BS class because:
1: You want agility for the aiming 2: Having a ship that could lob out more than one bomb at once would be op 3: Having a ship that could lob out a bomb, then stick around to paint, scram and finish the target would be op 4: As pointed out: Why break the unique status as the SB.
Instead of randomly calling people trolls you should try to understand their reaction.
You said wildly inappropiate. I just couldn't resist posting.
Now a WIDOT thread: confirm/deny?
This is AoF. WIDOT thread denied. Stand down! PSBADPUP > I was trying to salvage a minmatar wreck for 10 minutes, until he started firing at me.
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