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spytoon
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Posted - 2010.07.24 10:41:00 -
[1]
I have about 15 pvp/pve/miners from mainly lowsec and NPC nullsec.
If we put something up is there a good chance that we will be drowning in Titans ten minutes later.
we are not interested in renting as there is only a few of us and we would be working all week to pay the bills
My thanks for your answers.
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Minchurra
Caldari Feudum Chalybis The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.07.24 11:07:00 -
[2]
Don't.
...or join HYRDA.
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Allie Spree
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Posted - 2010.07.24 14:27:00 -
[3]
You would never get the POS up let alone the Sov claim. Unless you find a hole no one is in and make a deal with a bigger alliance to help protect you. You need a ton more people to hold sov.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.24 16:27:00 -
[4]
Wormholes are great for smaller corps, it's still null sec and you can get plenty of cash and pvp. Worth taking your time to find a good hole though. _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:23:00 -
[5]
Even thought I think it was made in jest, it seems Hydra's recruiting everything that can be declared clinically "alive" and are looking to take provi. May be an option.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.07.24 18:36:00 -
[6]
This is indeed an option.
We are currently executing phase one of Operation HYDRATE PROVIDENCE.
If you wish to book a system in advance please send me a message ingame.
Lady Spank POS and Sovereignity Diplomat Official Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist |
Danny Lonnegan
Caldari Nex Somes Ubertas Venator Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.24 21:18:00 -
[7]
With only 15 people, you have absolutely no chance of defending your sov. Even if you managed to get a TCU and IHUB online, a few dreadnoughts and a medium sized battleship fleet could knock them out without any real trouble; a big alliance or coalition will drop 300 caps on your head and RF everything in about 15 minutes. Even being a renter is probably out of the question; with only 15 guys, you wouldn't be able to effectively defend your space at all, and if the senior alliance was interested in defending that space, they'd take sov themselves.
If you want to get into the sov game, you'll have to 1) grow much larger, 2) join an existing alliance, or 3) take control of a wormhole and forget about sov.
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Donny Maurasi
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Posted - 2010.07.24 23:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Danny Lonnegan With only 15 people, you have absolutely no chance of defending your sov. Even if you managed to get a TCU and IHUB online, a few dreadnoughts and a medium sized battleship fleet could knock them out without any real trouble; a big alliance or coalition will drop 300 caps on your head and RF everything in about 15 minutes. Even being a renter is probably out of the question; with only 15 guys, you wouldn't be able to effectively defend your space at all, and if the senior alliance was interested in defending that space, they'd take sov themselves.
If you want to get into the sov game, you'll have to 1) grow much larger, 2) join an existing alliance, or 3) take control of a wormhole and forget about sov.
Unfortunately this is always why EVE and Sov warfare is broken and unexciting. There is no opportunity for small fresh blood to get a start or do anything because anything they do will quickly be steam rolled by one of the many NAP Trains if for nothing else but LOLs.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2010.07.25 05:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Danny Lonnegan Even being a renter is probably out of the question; with only 15 guys, you wouldn't be able to effectively defend your space at all, and if the senior alliance was interested in defending that space, they'd take sov themselves.
I dont know who you rent from but i would get my money back. I been on both sides of the fence as a renter ( pre sov changes though) and as someone in an alliance doing the renting. There are various reasons why the senior alliance wants the space secured but doesnt want to pay to maintain. They may want it for a JB network, a buffer zone, or extra income to pay for various alliance bills or all of the above. when i was in the renter alliance we defended against roaming gangs. However if another alliance decided to move in with force to overtake said space the landlord alliance would rain capital ships down upon the ones trying to take the space. Large battles would ensue. and in the landlord alliance it is the same concept. You defend yourselves against roaming gangs. If someone trys to take the space it is a threat to the landlords income, JB network, or allowing hostiles on the edge of their territory. The landlord will help the renters defend the space.
Renters to a landlord alliance are second class citizens though. Cannon fodder, meatshields, etc. However when the landlord hotdrops 100 caps with several hundred support ships , you as the renter dont mind being a second class citizen and having that kind of firepower coming to defend an area you call home.
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Danny Lonnegan
Caldari Nex Somes Ubertas Venator Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.25 06:16:00 -
[10]
That's just it; 15 guys can't defend a system against roaming gangs, even if they're all first-class PVPers and online at the same time. If the major alliance wants a presence in that system to provide a buffer against roaming gangs, a 15-man renter alliance isn't going to get it done.
I'm assuming renting means, incidentally, that the renter alliance actually has a TCU in the system, but pays the major alliance for the privilege of keeping it. If you just mean an alliance that lives in a system that's owned by somebody else, then yeah, it's not like an extra 15 guys won't hurt, but that doesn't sound like the arrangement the OP wants. Such a small group would probably get better return on their investment in a wormhole, NPC null, or some quiet corner of lowsec anyway.
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BrodyDalle
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Posted - 2010.07.25 13:59:00 -
[11]
15 guys can't defend a system against blob warfare, becuse thats all 0.0 is about, unless you gain 300 more members or get a biger alliance to help you its not going to happen
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Danny Lonnegan
Caldari Nex Somes Ubertas Venator Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: BrodyDalle 15 guys can't defend a system against blob warfare, becuse thats all 0.0 is about, unless you gain 300 more members or get a biger alliance to help you its not going to happen
The problem in this case isn't blob warfare, it's that 15 is too small to defend a system against most roaming gangs. If they were good PVPers in good ships, led by a quality FC and online at the same time, they could certainly punch above their weight--I've seen well-coordinated fleets beat the snot out of random blobs three times their size (sadly, I was in the random blob)--but that just means under perfect conditions, they'll lose to a 50-man fleet of random guys and get torn apart effortlessly by an average HAC gang.
You don't even need a blob to take down an iHub and TCU. A mix of torpedo-equipped SBs and battleships can put an iHub into RF in a few hours. Bring along a couple of dreads and you might be down to one hour. It's boring and annoying (hence why everybody brings 300 cap ships every time they structure bash), but it's doable. Conversely, unless those 15 guys are in dreads, they'll never grind through an SBU's hit points in time.
I honestly don't think it's that unreasonable that fewer than 20 players can't hold sovereignty. It's a different issue when, say, 100 can't do it either, but I don't really see a way around it given EVE's mechanics. Conquerable nullsec is always going to be the big boys' playground. The only thing I can think of at the moment would be for CCP to add some kind of player-conquerable space that uses FW mechanics to determine sov, and excludes capital ships--but the big alliances can put together a battleship blob even easier than a capital blob, so I don't know if that actually helps.
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Skyla Huron
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Skyla Huron on 25/07/2010 16:52:12
Originally by: Donny Maurasi Unfortunately this is always why EVE and Sov warfare is broken and unexciting. There is no opportunity for small fresh blood to get a start or do anything because anything they do will quickly be steam rolled by one of the many NAP Trains if for nothing else but LOLs.
This. Don't waste your time with nullsec gaming unless you wan't to be a part of some massive cap fleet (the only unique and possibly tempting draw for players who haven't experienced it) NAP train.
Unless you're a pre-existing good-ol-boy with present alliances, or have incredible numbers of pilots and/or resources at your disposal: sov space is not for you and you will never have it.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.26 00:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 26/07/2010 00:02:31
Originally by: Skyla Huron Edited by: Skyla Huron on 25/07/2010 16:52:12
Originally by: Donny Maurasi Unfortunately this is always why EVE and Sov warfare is broken and unexciting. There is no opportunity for small fresh blood to get a start or do anything because anything they do will quickly be steam rolled by one of the many NAP Trains if for nothing else but LOLs.
This. Don't waste your time with nullsec gaming unless you wan't to be a part of some massive cap fleet (the only unique and possibly tempting draw for players who haven't experienced it) NAP train.
Unless you're a pre-existing good-ol-boy with present alliances, or have incredible numbers of pilots and/or resources at your disposal: sov space is not for you and you will never have it.
What. The. F. Both of you. So you, with a band of your 15 friends, want to enjoy exactly the same benefits as someone who has spent literally years getting the people, the organization and the infrastructure in place to field the fleets necessary to defend themselves? If a 15 person corp meets a 1,000 person alliance, the latter will always win. If they didn't, that would mean the game is terribly broken, not the other way. You are asking the EVE equivalent of saying "I have 15 friends here, and we are all law/econ students. How can we get a country to rule?" Why do you think everything should be handed to you just because you want it? ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Skyla Huron
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Posted - 2010.07.26 00:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Skyla Huron on 26/07/2010 00:41:07
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash What. The. F. Both of you.
Thanks for the offer, but i'll pass. I take it you're one of the NAPsters who are proud of your "accomplishment," that is living with help from a well-established sov. space holder in a nice comfy pet system?
I guess you weren't around back in the early days, because there certainly were not 1000 people involved in establishing every corp or alliance that forms the basis of the alliances we now see ruling over most of nullsec. You're right to say that's how many it would take now, but let's not pretend that is somd kind of historic norm, or that taking sov. space now is anywhere near as easy as it once was.
And for the record, Muppet, I've been there and done that garbage. I'm not bemoaning the fact "omg it's hard," but rather pointing out just how futile of an effort it is for the mediocre reward.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:06:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 26/07/2010 01:06:36
Originally by: Skyla Huron I take it you're one of the NAPsters who are proud of your "accomplishment," that is living with help from a well-established sov. space holder in a nice comfy pet system?
I am not afraid to show my corporation and alliance, feel free to look us up on your favorite sovereignty map. Definitely not a pet system, and we (as a corporation) have fought for over a year with pen and sword to get from empire to where we are now.
Quote: I guess you weren't around back in the early days, because there certainly were not 1000 people involved in establishing every corp or alliance that forms the basis of the alliances we now see ruling over most of nullsec.
I am afraid I was not. Was it the norm for a corporation to overtake a force hundred times larger?
Quote: You're right to say that's how many it would take now, but let's not pretend that is somd kind of historic norm, or that taking sov. space now is anywhere near as easy as it once was.
I didn't say that. I only said that it is not easy, and it is not supposed to be easy.
Quote: And for the record, Muppet, I've been there and done that garbage. I'm not bemoaning the fact "omg it's hard," but rather pointing out just how futile of an effort it is for the mediocre reward.
If the reward isn't worth it for you, then why even try? You are always free to stay in empire and kill NPCs all day long. Space belongs to those who are willing to work for it. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Skyla Huron
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Skyla Huron on 26/07/2010 01:16:54 So you admit you rolled into the comfy recliner of being a pet and yet you're continuing to make the holier than thou bs argument that assumes I (or anyone else) want a sov space handout?
Look muppet. I have no interest in that section of space or it's nuance. I'm merely informing the newb here of how and why I think it's a waste of his time. If you think that he's better off putting lip gloss on and puckering up to his own pet gig like you, go ahead and say your piece, but don't come in here acting like you "work," for your space or that you've done anything to earn the sov. holding you live in.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Skyla Huron So you admit you rolled into the comfy recliner of being a pet
Once again, no. We do not pay anyone for our space (other than CONCORD, duh), we fight every day to defend our space, and nobody tells us what to do in our space. Because it is, you know, our space.
Quote: argument that assumes I (or anyone else) want a sov space handout?
I think this is exactly what the OP is asking for.
Quote: I have no interest in that section of space or it's nuance.
That's fine with me. Unfortunately I can't tell whether this is because you tried it and were unsuccesful, or because you never actually tried at all, and are just listening to all the other whiners who want their share of free stuff - because this particular posting alt of yours is a day old.
Quote: If you think that he's better off putting lip gloss on and puckering up to his own pet gig like you
Is this what "making friends and allies" is called now?
Quote: go ahead and say your piece
I already did. A 15 person corp is not enough to take sov. Take your time to grow, or join an alliance to become a part of a larger force. You can get there if you try hard enough.
Quote: but don't come in here acting like you "work," for your space or that you've done anything to earn the sov. holding you live in.
Again, I do not know whether you have ever touched 0.0 space, so you might not know about the effort involved. Let me pick a few items: First, nearly constant fleets for weeks to actually capture the systems in question. Sitting there, watching the hitpoint bar go slowly down, and wondering whether the enemies cyno in a capital fleet on top of us. We have destroyed maybe a hundred of various control towers and sov structures. Then the logistics of putting all of our structures up, and fueling and maintaining them. Fleets chasing down any remaining enemies and patroling the choke points. Maintaining intel channels 23/7 so that every time you jump you know exactly what is on the other side of the gate. Raising the indexes of the systems to install upgrades. And not least, earning bilions of ISK every week to keep all that infrastructure running.
All in all, I would say it's more work than sitting in a belt, pointing lasers at rocks. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Skyla Huron
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash All in all, I would say it's more work than sitting in a belt, pointing lasers at rocks.
Masterful comparison.
Ever consider a job as a pundit?
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superteds
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Posted - 2010.07.26 05:17:00 -
[20]
screw taking actual sov, just move into pirate 0.0 (Venal for example). Station access without the boring sov stuff, missions if you need isk and plenty of small scale pvp.
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Firkragg
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.07.26 13:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: superteds screw taking actual sov, just move into pirate 0.0 (Venal for example). Station access without the boring sov stuff, missions if you need isk and plenty of small scale pvp.
Yeh im confused as well. You dont need sov to just drop a pos somewhere out of the way and rat out of it. TBH as long as its a bit off the beaten path most alliances wont even bother crushing you.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:06:00 -
[22]
As a 1 man alliance I had a pop at getting some Sov in 0.0.
I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't have been for those pesky kids (a roaming gang popped the onlining TC Unit coz they were bored looking for pew).
If it had gone up it probably would have lasted 1 week or so I was told by the nearby holding folks. Anchoring at a deathstar POS would have helped and probably made it last much longer, but that was a bit out my price scale for a "fun" solo effort.
It is possible to claim a 0.0 system as a small group, just make sure you write off the effort (3 or 4 Bil) before you go, as the likelihood is you'll sooner or later get booted unless you can prove more nuisance to remove than leave alone.
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spytoon
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:10:00 -
[23]
My thanks for all of these responces. We are a mixed bag when it comes to timezones so there would probably only be about 10 of us on at any one time. As an integrated fleet we can beat of fleets twice our size if they are badly lead, but if a fleet of 50 Hacs turned up then we would not have a hope in hell.
It is a shame that Nullsec is a static area with huge areas completely off limits, but without major support it would appear that we are alone.
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Xereyn
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Posted - 2010.07.27 03:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
I already did. A 15 person corp is not enough to take sov. Take your time to grow, or join an alliance to become a part of a larger force. You can get there if you try hard enough.
See, the problem with your argument is that you seem to be assuming that if people say they think that it should be possible for smaller groups to have sov in nullsec, they're saying that a small group should be able to overpower a 1000-man alliance.
Which is not the point.
There's vast tracts of nullsec that aren't inhabited at all. What's irritating is that a small group can't colonise those at all - even if nobody else wants that space, they'll crush the small group anyway, just because they can.
And then act smug about how awesome they are.
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Captain Blart
Hideous Mutant Freekz
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Posted - 2010.07.28 13:08:00 -
[25]
Like some people said, forget about 0.0 , find yourself a nice C3 hole to begin with and live in there, plenty of mining, pve and pvp if you want . There is still plenty of WH with low sec or 0.0 exit who are empty.
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