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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 19:00:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I don't think you get to claim "UK did this first" with any credibilty given the CVA's use of downtime tower spam cheese to take the UK's stations in Providence all those years ago Garreck.
I'm really not concerned about who started what at this point; the conversation (particularly mis/disinformation about the tower spam in 9uy) is old and tired. At this point, the lack of organizational respect through special rules is very obviously mutual, and I'm less saying U'K "started" it with their actions with -A-, and more saying U'K "affirmed" it with those actions.
Or: given our organizations' recent histories and comments and sentiments affirmed by U'K most recently, it's comical for U'K to whine that Aralis had knowledge of what was going to happen and did nothing to protect U'K per the previous (and oft mocked by newer U'K influences) gentlemen's understanding.
Originally by: Jade Constantine But I do think its probably a good thing in general that CVA is now acknowleding that Amarrian Nationalism is something that works well with treachery, scumbags and general dishonest manipulation of enemies where military force cannot work.
This is well recorded in the prime fiction and reflected in lots of amarr missions in-game etc, though I'm sure CAOD doesn't want to listen to you and I wax poetic about lawful good, chaotic good, chaotic evil, and what makes good internet spaceship opera. There are lots of expressions/interpretations of loyalty to God, Empire, and Empress in the Amarrian's corner of Eve.
Originally by: Jade Constantine I find it entirely fitting you would use a traitor to achieve your ends.
Oops. But...we didn't. Hydra did. Without our sponsorship, urging, or cooperation, and with only Aralis' last-minute knowledge and silence (even internally) on the matter. Whether or not I agree that Amarrians play dirty in the fiction of Eve, that particular kind of dirty is not how CVA runs business.
Of course that does bring us back to "we will continue operations in Providence per the norm without regard to U'K's misfortune." So you could more accurately say we will (attempt to...capability is a whole other discussion) use the treachery of others and the misfortune of our enemy to achieve our ends.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.27 19:10:00 -
[392]
Originally by: CHED
Originally by: Ae0lian
Originally by: Count MonteCarlo
Originally by: Ae0lian
Shows what little you know, Arailis said he would never form an alliance with these people, and BAM there he is, getting his rear end handed to him in KBP7 at the same time as they are. S****tends to stick together it would seem.
YES WE TOTALLY GOT OWNED THERE, YOU SURE SHOWED US
Linkage Friendly (94) Hostile (181)
41.07% Efficiency (ISK)
And that's after managing to kill two machs, I have no idea how it looks so well in our favour
faking KMs now? 65 Ships killed (4.58B ISK)21 Ships lost (1.03B ISK)81.61% Efficiency (ISK)
according to our allied KB. I wont link it due to the fact its not ours KB and out of respect to their privacy. dont believe it, I really don't care.
Dosen't erase the fact you got your rear ends pounded like **** star late on their rent.
no way is this serious
I think it says a lot about their recruitment standards. ---
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Bazman
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.07.27 19:20:00 -
[393]
Damn guys, where is your space ethics -----
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General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 19:51:00 -
[394]
Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 19:51:57
Originally by: Lykouleon Yeah, you're right, Butters does seem pretty ~butt hurt~
Ok, I came up with the name Jade Constantwhine, even though I like the guy, er... girl. I'm going to do it again. Why haven't you guys considered calling my esteemed former U'K colleague Butthurt Plug?
Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Lykouleon
Gallente Trust Doesn't Rust Mostly Cookie
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Posted - 2010.07.27 21:14:00 -
[395]
Originally by: General Windypops Why haven't you guys considered calling my esteemed former U'K colleague Butthurt Plug?
Mostly because it doesn't really rhyme well. Come on, can't have a good nick-name unless it rhymes
Quote: Aedun Sole > flying with lyk is like flying a bus filled with 5 year old children
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:02:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Garreck
No. I'm referring to U'K's rather gleeful use of -A-'s real-time intel from vent compromise, the same use of POS passwords for bowling, and general mockery of CVA when we, at the time, proposed this was against certain gentlemen's rules U'K and CVA used to stick to (not unlike U'K's implications now that Aralis knowing of U'K's imminent demise is a similar breach of those rules.)
Dude, I couldn't ever run a ten man roaming gang without at least two of your blue's spies trying to join gang and vent. People you work with have attempted to pos bowl us in the past. You had the least e-honorable blues I've ever seen. We stopped bothering to let you know about them convo spamming to lag us, spamming our pilots with fleet invites, and being notorious for dishonoring 1v1s since it was clear long ago you didn't mind working with d-bags.
Do you think you guys are special? Get off your high horse. |
Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:18:00 -
[397]
Originally by: Kazzzi We stopped bothering to let you know
Conveniently enough for the purposes of this discussion, eh?
You still think this is a discussion about who "started it," and I'm beginning to feel like I'm speaking another language or something.
The point remains Aralis had no obligation, by any standard, to tell U'K what he knew, and U'K blaming CVA for Hyrda's independent actions is cognitive dissonance at best and staggering hypocrisy at worst.
Maybe I'm being trolled?
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General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:33:00 -
[398]
Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 22:35:30
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Kazzzi We stopped bothering to let you know
Conveniently enough for the purposes of this discussion, eh?
You still think this is a discussion about who "started it," and I'm beginning to feel like I'm speaking another language or something.
The point remains Aralis had no obligation, by any standard, to tell U'K what he knew, and U'K blaming CVA for Hyrda's independent actions is cognitive dissonance at best and staggering hypocrisy at worst.
Maybe I'm being trolled?
People stopped bothering to tell you because you did nothing about it, Garreck, and you know that better than anyone. To claim ignorance is just laughable.
The simple fact is that when CVA was disbanded we felt that the tradition of our conflict was too important to abuse the situation. Even when U'K defeated you militarily we still preserved the spirit of our conflict in the space we controlled.
Aralis and yourself, however, have shown that you prefer to win through director level disbands than through genuine victory. It's not the first time by any means. We all know what you did with the tower spam, buddy. Do you know what? I'd have done the same thing personally, but I have far lower morals than most of U'K.
The puzzling bit is your attemt to retrospectively paint CVA as the injured party... you used the age old tactic of people who couldn't win through straight fights. Fine. Just stop trying to desperately whitewash history. You're s****like me, and you should just admit it, Garreck.
Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:34:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Garreck Conveniently enough for the purposes of this discussion, eh?
Originally by: Garreck We were well past the point with U'K where we felt obligated to report as we had in the past,
Double standard. Your diplos received a ton of complaints and you know it :p
Originally by: Garreck
The point remains Aralis had no obligation, by any standard, to tell U'K what he knew, and U'K blaming CVA for Hyrda's independent actions is cognitive dissonance at best and staggering hypocrisy at worst.
Maybe I'm being trolled?
Don't care about Aralis and what he knew and no you aren't being trolled, just saying your people have no business proclaiming their holier than thou attitude.
Originally by: Garreck
I'm really not concerned about who started what at this point; the conversation (particularly mis/disinformation about the tower spam in 9uy) is old and tired.
Your mis/disinformation of our complicity in what you think happened at D-G is old and tired already.
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:39:00 -
[400]
Originally by: General Windypops Aralis and yourself, however, have shown that you prefer to win through director level disbands than through genuine victory.
Originally by: General Windypops The puzzling bit is your attemt to retrospectively paint CVA as the injured party...
Aha. Definitely getting trolled now, as I've stated exactly the opposite of each of these assertions multiple times.
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ED FAT
Gallente Muppet Factory WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:46:00 -
[401]
Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 22:35:30
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Kazzzi We stopped bothering to let you know
Conveniently enough for the purposes of this discussion, eh?
You still think this is a discussion about who "started it," and I'm beginning to feel like I'm speaking another language or something.
The point remains Aralis had no obligation, by any standard, to tell U'K what he knew, and U'K blaming CVA for Hyrda's independent actions is cognitive dissonance at best and staggering hypocrisy at worst.
Maybe I'm being trolled?
People stopped bothering to tell you because you did nothing about it, Garreck, and you know that better than anyone. To claim ignorance is just laughable.
The simple fact is that when CVA was disbanded we felt that the tradition of our conflict was too important to abuse the situation. Even when -A- defeated you militarily we still preserved the spirit of our conflict in the space we controlled.
Aralis and yourself, however, have shown that you prefer to win through director level disbands than through genuine victory. It's not the first time by any means. We all know what you did with the tower spam, buddy. Do you know what? I'd have done the same thing personally, but I have far lower morals than most of U'K.
The puzzling bit is your attemt to retrospectively paint CVA as the injured party... you used the age old tactic of people who couldn't win through straight fights. Fine. Just stop trying to desperately whitewash history. You're s****like me, and you should just admit it, Garreck.
Fixed
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:47:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Kazzzi just saying your people have no business proclaiming their holier than thou attitude.
And your people have no business proclaiming we proclaim a holier than thou attitude.
Our standards are our own, and for ourselves. We don't expect our enemies to encumber themselves with the same standards, and we've stopped expecting this from ushra'khan for some time as well. That's not an indictment. It just is. We had gentlemen's rules, now we don't. We can sit here all day and cry "you started it" without getting anywhere, which is why I was quick to steer the conversation away from that pointless line of bla-dee-bla, but you and yours seem really insistant on keeping it there.
D-G? When has that been thrown around by CVA? You're the one who keeps bringing it up as if it's relevant at all to this conversation, to YOUR pilot's betrayal, to HYDRA's schemes, and to U'K's demise.
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General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:48:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: General Windypops Aralis and yourself, however, have shown that you prefer to win through director level disbands than through genuine victory.
Originally by: General Windypops The puzzling bit is your attemt to retrospectively paint CVA as the injured party...
Aha. Definitely getting trolled now, as I've stated exactly the opposite of each of these assertions multiple times.
Disclaimer: I'm going to get a bit emo now, so flame me CAOD
Garreck, I've always had more time for you than for most you crew precisely BECAUSE you have usually been straight up.
When I first saw you posting on this subject I thought I knew what you would stand for. Saying that you're 'disappointed' to 'win' this way, but just going along with it because you have to is just ludicrous. As I said just above I'd have had no qualms about using whatever advantage I could get. However I've got far fewer scruples than the rest of U'K.
Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 22:56:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Garreck
D-G? When has that been thrown around by CVA? You're the one who keeps bringing it up as if it's relevant at all to this conversation, to YOUR pilot's betrayal, to HYDRA's schemes, and to U'K's demise.
D-G is where your pilots claim we did much of the naughty stuff they like to complain about. Like how we sat in our evil lair with our kitty and laser beam sharks and masterminded the pos bowling you've mentioned several times. |
Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:05:00 -
[405]
Originally by: General Windypops Garreck, I've always had more time for you than for most you crew precisely BECAUSE you have usually been straight up.
I can't be any more straight up than to say we had nothing to do with Hydra's plan and from where I sit Aralis had no obligation even by long-held CVA standards to tell U'K what was coming due to (now clearly demonstrated) degredation of relations between CVA and U'K.
That's my straight-up "take" on all of this.
I'm really confused about what we've "won" here, because at the end of the day, U'K no longer existing doesn't change CVA's strategic readiness and capability one little bit. Besides, our goal has never been the destruction of U'K such that even their name was no longer theirs, so seeing that happen is not a victory of any kind.
What do we do about it? Stop playing the game? Because everybody else uses spies or buys off disgruntled members or metagames etc and we don't? By logging in and playing we ALL accept that treacherous crap goes down in Eve all the time. We're all indirectly complicit in it because nothing happens in this game that doesn't affect dozens of organizations directly or indirectly, whether those organizations want to be affected or not.
No, we just press forward, play our way, and stick to our rules 'cause that makes us feel warm and fuzzy.
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:13:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Kazzzi D-G is where your pilots claim we did much of the naughty stuff they like to complain about.
I was unaware it had been brought up in this thread or any others regarding U'K's demise, or indeed any thread involving U'K and CVA at all. Our beef in D-G is solely with CCP, and we've written it off as FCs making ill-advised decisions optimistically and unrealistically hoping for adequate server performance.
Y'know, just for the record
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General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:15:00 -
[407]
Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 23:16:22
Originally by: Garreck I'm really confused about what we've "won" here
I'm not surprised. You've lost far more than you've gained, from what I can see. I've always been puzzled as to why U'K was so determined to make sure that CVA was always kept alive. Personally I couldn't give a toss, but I've only been a part of U'K for 2 years, and I know the relationship has lasted for many many more years than that.
I don't understand why Hydra has some sort of level of control over CVA though, since you claim your decision about whether to participate or not was out of your control?
Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:19:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Garreck
I can't be any more straight up than to say we had nothing to do with Hydra's plan and from where I sit Aralis had no obligation even by long-held CVA standards to tell U'K what was coming
This is fine, I don't care what Hydra did, we'll fix the mess. I don't care if Aralis knew all along. I don't care if you even try to take advantage of the situation. My only complaint through this entire ordeal is your alliance members attitude with their delusions of superior e-honor and stating we deserved what happened.
I understand your people needed scapegoats to explain the loss of their first epic fleet battles to all the disheartened nubs, but seriously, your people have gotten very childishly bitter, like a 10 year old who's sister has just broken his model airplane.
Originally by: Garreck
No, we just press forward, play our way, and stick to our rules 'cause that makes us feel warm and fuzzy.
Rock on |
General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:20:00 -
[409]
Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 23:21:07
Originally by: Garreck
I can't be any more straight up than to say we had nothing to do with Hydra's plan
Originally by: Garreck Aralis had no obligation, by any standard, to tell U'K what he knew
Drop the crap, Garreck. You've admitted you knew. This is getting ridiculous now. I think it's cute that you've been sent out to defend your honour, but at least try to be consistent within posts you've made in the last 10 minutes...
Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:24:00 -
[410]
Edited by: Kazzzi on 27/07/2010 23:25:46
Originally by: Garreck
I was unaware it had been brought up in this thread or any others regarding U'K's demise,
Originally by: Garreck [This was our understanding of our relationship until U'K pilots were bowling CVA POSes
post 339 and pretty much every time I talk to a cva member it gets brought up |
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:37:00 -
[411]
Originally by: General Windypops You've admitted you knew.
Aralis knew, yes. And he told nobody about it. And CVA had nothing to do with the plan. It's pretty straight-forward, really.
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.27 23:43:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Kazzzi post 339 and pretty much every time I talk to a cva member it gets brought up
Aha.
I see the confusion. This is not a D-G issue; it was an every-system-in-Providence issue, Kazzzi. And yeah, we do bring it up quite a bit. Not to get into a back-and-forth of who started what, but to illustrate why we feel old decorum no longer applies (it obviously didn't then.) Specific to this discussion, I mention it as the reason Aralis was not obligated to tell Ushra'Khan of the tragedy heading their way.
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.28 00:18:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Garreck I mention it as the reason Aralis was not obligated to tell Ushra'Khan of the tragedy heading their way.
That's fine, Aralis doesn't need to have any friends here. But if your blues warped your fleet into our POS, I really don't think that would justify me being happy with seeing your alliance stolen by a spy. We're not that petty. |
Ohh Yeah
Minmatar The Compass Reloaded HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.28 04:51:00 -
[414]
It's only a matter of time before Jade starts throwing spoons.
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Soldarius
Caldari Independent Coalition
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Posted - 2010.07.28 06:02:00 -
[415]
Seems to be a lot of this going around lately.
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
Niding
Amarr Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.28 08:10:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Niding on 28/07/2010 08:11:08
Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 27/07/2010 23:16:22
Originally by: Garreck I'm really confused about what we've "won" here
I'm not surprised. You've lost far more than you've gained, from what I can see. I've always been puzzled as to why U'K was so determined to make sure that CVA was always kept alive. Personally I couldn't give a toss, but I've only been a part of U'K for 2 years, and I know the relationship has lasted for many many more years than that.
I don't understand why Hydra has some sort of level of control over CVA though, since you claim your decision about whether to participate or not was out of your control?
Control of what? Attacking r3/n8 or the UK hostile takeover? We didnt see Hydra around since they pulled out of Sev3rance, so I wouldnt say thatHydra had a hold on us. For the most part we have been sticking around r3 area doing our own thing until Hydra made their play that have revived the intrest some of the ex CVAers that moved north. If we let ourselves be "controlled", we would have accepted the AAA deal back before Providence got sieged beyond D-G.
As for r3/n8 if thats what your talking about; Havent we been throwing SBUs like they are candy at those systems the last few months? Its not like Hyrda have had anything to do with that fact in the past, nor now.
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Avicenna Sarfaraz
Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.28 08:33:00 -
[417]
Now Now, how could you all have a discussion about providence and leave me out of this? ==
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FOEHAMMER006
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.28 08:38:00 -
[418]
We are missing more goon infestation and WIdots. Then this thread will be complete! --------------------------------
my posts reflect me. g0t w34d?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.28 08:41:00 -
[419]
I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but seriously guys, neither the CVA nor the former U'K are doing themselves any favours with this mostly irrelevant back-and-forth.
The fact of the matter is that whether or not Aralis should have tipped off his enemies in advance is actually a pretty minor component in this whole sorry tale.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Niding
Amarr Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.28 08:55:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Rodj Blake I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but seriously guys, neither the CVA nor the former U'K are doing themselves any favours with this mostly irrelevant back-and-forth.
The fact of the matter is that whether or not Aralis should have tipped off his enemies in advance is actually a pretty minor component in this whole sorry tale.
Why leave us wondering Rodj? Why not point to the MAJOR component(s)? |
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