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Voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2010.07.30 08:44:00 -
[1]
Not this again.
T2 BPO's will go away naturally when the owners of them quit, or gets banned because its a fairly common cycle for people to find an exploit, buy up t2 bpos with illegal profits, then get banned for said exploit, eliminating their bought BPO's from the pool.
This is really just the have-nots going against the haves, it's simple jealously and a complete misunderstanding of the market. I didn't have T2 BPO's either, I saved ISK and I bought my T2 BPO's after sweet talking the owners out of them dangling billions of ISK in their faces.
The primary reason for removing the T2 BPO's is the illusion that it will increase the profit margin of invention, it won't, because many inventards (as I call them), sell their wares at LOSS and have to keep buying PLEX's to even stay in business. If you want invention to be profitable you need to add more risk to invention, and make inventing POS only, or even low-sec POS only if you want to go to the extreme.
People say that there is no risk in owning T2 BPO's, while there isn't as much risk owning a T2 BPO, that risk was offloaded to saving the required 10 to 100 billion ISK to buy the BPO, the less risk they took, the longer it took them to earn that ISK.
I would support making all T2 production pos only (BPO's can stay in stations though, the cost production runs on T2 BPO's are usually in the billions and are enough risk), and invention low-sec pos only. The profit margins for everybody would rise, inventors could go to war with entities that own T2 BPO's and blow up their POS's, inventors can hire mercs to go blow up other low-sec inventors, and the T2 BPO owners can repay the favor.
Resulting in more stuff getting blown up which benefits all production profiteers.
Instead, we have station camping 100% safe production, so of course it's going to drive profits down because pretty much every product made ends up on the market, there isn't much of an opportunity for a competitor to intercept it.
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Voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2010.07.30 09:04:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Cuppa Coffee The issue I have with this is that it would increase significantly the capital necessary to begin as an inventor.
But it won't be as high as a T2 BPO would be, and the higher profit margins would make up for it much quicker. Newbies would still have T1 production to get a foothold of how the market works and can eventually advance into POS production. T2 being POS only also gives even more of a reason for POS's to exist in high sec in low sec, increasing the demand for the POS fuels and commodities, boosting the needs of PI.
Everybody wins, but everybody is also exposed to more risk, but when they win, they win more.
I want to add, that "LHA Tarawa" is most likely a real world socialist or communist.
Newsflash LHA Tarawa, this game is the official game of Unregulated, Ruthless, Capitalism.
I will be playing this game far longer than you ever will. I will play EVE until the servers go down forever, as long as CCP doesn't give into your socialist demands.
If they do give into your socialist demands, you will still eventually quit the game because you will be bored. Socialist Utopia's are not exactly very much fun.
If you want a Utopia, go play second life.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.07.30 09:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Voogru on 30/07/2010 09:19:22
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Originally by: Voogru The primary reason for removing the T2 BPO's is the illusion that it will increase the profit margin of invention, it won't, because many inventards (as I call them), sell their wares at LOSS and have to keep buying PLEX's to even stay in business. If you want invention to be profitable you need to add more risk to invention, and make inventing POS only, or even low-sec POS only if you want to go to the extreme.
Just FYI, most everything you said there is wrong. First, invention is perfectly profitable as is if you're capable of doing a bit of research to identify products worth making. Second, you already need a POS or the ability to move freely in low/nullsec if you're going to maintain an adequate supply of BPCs - making invention POS only wouldn't have any noticeable impact on T2 production.
First, you're assuming most inventors do their homework, most don't. My evidence? These everlasting threads with inventors whining about profit margins. I agree with you that invention CAN be profitable, but it requires the player to do their homework and research, and most don't. They tend to invent modules that they are in love with and want to make babies with, rather than what's profitable.
Second, I'm willing to bet you there are more invention jobs being done in the safety of stations than in low sec POS's. Making invention low-sec POS only would be a huge change.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.07.30 14:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
edit: @ Cashews: Ever heard of a little thing called 'blueprint copying' ? You think T2 bpo owners produce right off of the bpo? You think that a T2 BPO doesn't spend it's entire life in a copying lab? Think again.
This just proves exactly how knowledgeable you are in this subject. Next time do your freaking homework.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.07.30 15:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Voogru on 30/07/2010 15:32:36
Originally by: Breaker77
Do the math
To be fair, this is something a lot of inventors can't do. They probably went through the government run public school system so even this might not be their fault.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.07.31 13:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Voogru on 31/07/2010 13:49:57
Originally by: clixoras Ok. saturday morning fresh perspective post
- Keep T2 BPO's - Give invented BPC's some advantage over BPO's (significantly faster build times!)
Result, T2 BPO's have convenience and slightly better base materials requirements. Use invention if you want to manufacture loads of stuff in short amount of time.
So, if i can produce 10 modules in a day with a BPC, you can only produce 3 - 5 with a BPO making it impossible for BPO holders to flood markets.
The primary reason the inventards want to get rid of T2 bpos is because they are in competition with them, and they believe that the T2 BPO owners hurt their profits. Increasing the amount of production that can be done with invention will flood the market with more invention goods, driving down prices and profit margins even more.
Originally by: Linaeon How about let the ppl that not have lottery chance to get that T2 BPO too, maybe once in a year, is that fair ?? Or is that not fair for T2 BPO owner ??
You can do this now, I'll tell you how.
Step 1: Find a T2 BPO you'd like to have Step 2: Earn enough ISK to buy it. Step 3: Buy it from the owner. Step 4: ??? Step 5: Profit.
Many argue that "OH WELL THOSE EVIL GUYS GOT THEIR BPOS FOR FREE WHY CANT I", NEWSFLASH: Majority of prints that are owned were bought from lottery winners.
Oh... you want it for free.
Well then that makes sense.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.02 11:31:00 -
[7]
How to tell if a T2 bpo whiner is just a jealous hypocrite.
Step 1: Sell them a valuable (20B+) T2 BPO for 1 billion ISK. Step 2: Ask them to trash it. Step 3: Watch as they put it into production or auction it off on the sell orders forum after transfering it to an alt. Step 4: In the event they produce from it, watch as they suddenly flip sides on the T2 BPO debate.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Drojdier Oh, and there are also those that claim that T2 BPOs and limited edition ships/items in-game create social class problems....those people have different and way deeper issues and I doubt any move from CCP will be able to cure them.
We have a name for these kinds of people. Socialists.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fumitsugu Sylwia
Originally by: Voogru
Originally by: Drojdier Oh, and there are also those that claim that T2 BPOs and limited edition ships/items in-game create social class problems....those people have different and way deeper issues and I doubt any move from CCP will be able to cure them.
We have a name for these kinds of people. Idiots.
Better. Personally, I'm all for paid sick leave and holiday, minimum wages, and some sort of state provision for pensions and sick people.
Please don't class me with the T2 BPO whiners.
Thanks.
State provisions for pensions (social security) and sick people ('free' healthcare), requires confiscation of assets from 'rich people' in order to pay for them.
Asking CCP to take away T2 BPO's for the perceived benefits of the inventors is not much different. There is a whole slew of economic issues with the other things you mentioned but thats way to off-topic.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fumitsugu Sylwia It's very different. You must be American.
T2 BPO whiners want T2 BPO's removed (read: confiscation) for the 'greater good' of the game.
Not sure how this is 'very different'.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fumitsugu Sylwia
Originally by: Voogru
Originally by: Fumitsugu Sylwia It's very different. You must be American.
T2 BPO whiners want T2 BPO's removed (read: confiscation) for the 'greater good' of the game.
Not sure how this is 'very different'.
Firstly, because it's a game!
Secondly because everyone can benefit from a subsidised health system. Everyone has the potential to benefit from paid sick leave. Equally, everyone get's taxed. On average, people live longer. Nobody whines about an alternative, even though there are some.
On the other hand, the only people who benefit from T2 BPOs are their owners. No one else is affected. Tarawa whines
Firstly, this is a game built on CAPITALISM and you're trying to mix SOCIALISM with it.
Secondly, the non-producers benefit from the T2 BPO owners undercutting inventors (at least thats what inventors say happens), resulting in cheaper T2 items for the masses of players.
Originally by: Fumitsugu Sylwia Equally, everyone get's taxed.
No, only the people with assets and money get taxed. Taxes go up, people decide it's not worth it to produce and go on the welfare bandwagon, as more people get on the welfare bandwagon it requires higher taxes to pay for it, so more people give up and join the welfare bandwagon. You then have more people on the bandwagon with fewer people to pull it.
As time goes on there are fewer and fewer people pulling the bandwagon, with more and more people jumping on the wagon, the wagon progressivly gets slower and slower until eventually nobody is left to pull it.
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Voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2010.08.08 14:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zenst
Summary - T2 BPO's should stay, BUT others need to be introduced via auctions by CCP, if existing owners wish to maintain a monoply then there just as able as others to be able to make a bid. Perhaps bids could be in the form that they need so many RP's per bid - that would be fun.
And then slowly invention becomes worthless.
There is only one fair way to remove T2 BPO's. Turn the BPO's into patent licenses and add a 10% tax to all of those items, when they are sold, split the tax among all of the license holders.
The patent licenses can still be bought and sold, but can't be produced off of. They still provide passive income from the taxes.
This gets rid of 'competition from t2 bpos' for inventors, and keeps the t2 bpos as revenue generators like they are now.
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Voogru
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Posted - 2010.08.10 23:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Akita T
Are you HONESTLY advocating the bowdlerization of the game in order to appease the masses as a GOOD thing ?
Yes.
Then would you support CCP giving every player 100 billion ISK? Right from EVE central bank?
If it was put to a vote do you think it would win?
What would happen if every player suddenly had 100 billion ISK in their wallets?
Hint: The same thing if the US government or any countries government gave everybody lots of money.
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