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Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:15:00 -
[1]
Posting as Alt
As stated I am a mission whoring player who also does PI.
I recently had a look into PVP as a number of changes within the players of our corp helped me to move into that arena. So I fitted up a rifter and went into Old Man Star. I spent maybe 30 minutes looking for some action when 2 ships turn up at once.
Different corp,s different alliances yet both gank me. Needless to say a Rifter Vs a Dramiel and an Ishkur [ I think ] is not gonna end well for me.
Yes I die, No biggy. Thing is as I've never PVPed properly before I wanna know why getting a 1 Vs 1 is so hard? I have studied PVP like a science I have watched many videos on the topic there is very little I don't know.
So I want my KB to start looking nice as apposed to what it looks now - absolute "****"
Id love to get some 1 Vs 1 action is it too hard to get these days?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:17:00 -
[2]
General rules of EVE:
If you're in a fair fight, you're doing something wrong.
If you find yourself at equal odds, it's because the opponent's backup hasn't arrived yet.
There are plenty of 1v1 to be had, you just have to kill the other 20 guys first. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:21:00 -
[3]
For most players it is not the thrill of 1 v 1 that entices them to PvP but more the thrill of actually winning so finding that honorable 1 v 1 is going to be difficult at times. Since the sandbox concept of EVE allows for honor and deceit in equal measures, you should always be prepared to bring a bazooka to a knife fight
Personally speaking I PvP pretty much everyday and have no difficulty finding 1 v 1 fights but telling you where to find them could "out" me so all I can suggest is that you keep looking around.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:24:00 -
[4]
The whole concept sounds a bit Irish to me.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Industrial Exploits Massive Intergalactic Love Klub
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:29:00 -
[5]
challenge them to a 1 vs 1, then when they bring their 20, drop your carrierfleet on their heads and crush em!!!
unless offcourse they have a dreadfleet standing by, in which case it still could become an awesome fight!!! ________________________________________________
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d026
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:29:00 -
[6]
if you want 1 vs 1 go to the test server:)
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Captain Corbulo
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Captain Corbulo on 30/07/2010 11:31:43 now, for once i wouldnt go to a pirate infested system like rancer, egghelende, old man star etc. to get a 1vs1. try calmer systems, checking the belts there.
@Navigator: you fail - if you had posted with your main instead of your ccp alt, you could have told him without outing yourself :p
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Vearalden
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:38:00 -
[8]
Like "Pyrion Flax's Guide to Playing Eve Online" says, PvP stands for player versus people.
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Graugaard
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:38:00 -
[9]
Solo PVP is possible. However always see "PVP" as Player VS People. When i look for a fair or a solo fight, it can take hours really like 5 hours to find the good fight. But then it's often all worth it =)
It takes months to become a skilled pvp'er (not a smartbombing bs *** who sit @ rancer stargate all day long) the difference between PVP and PVE is that skill points is not enough, you need to use your own skills too. My suggestion is that you keep trying in the rifter maybe with a small gang, cus it's hard to win alone as first time pvp'er.
DONT GO BACK TO CAREBEAR HUB OR I WILL SUICIDE YOU <3 *sigh* |
Kate McCann
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:39:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kate McCann on 30/07/2010 11:38:47 0.0 is a good arena, although it's not kind to beginners, for solo PVP.
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Yuna Terra
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 challenge them to a 1 vs 1, then when they bring their 20, drop your carrierfleet on their heads and crush em!!!
unless offcourse they have a dreadfleet standing by, in which case it still could become an awesome fight!!!
I wish things like this happend more :| _________
"Life is a lot like music, all songs end..." |
Bishop Bob
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:50:00 -
[12]
There's only one place to get proper 1v1 PvP online www.redhotpawn.com
Yes, it is safe for work.
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:50:00 -
[13]
To be honest mate that is most people's first experience of PVP.
I think people tend to be initially guilty of presumed mono-dominance - probably because of single player games always providing a marked advantage to the human player. This tends to lead the uninitiated to expect an even playing field and some structure to the contest beyond merely speed vs surprise. The EVE reality is the total opposite.
You need a pretty comprehensive grasp of the aggression and sec mechanics; the kind that you can't just 'read' about to understand fully. There's also the need for excellent support skills whatever ship you are in. Intel helps so does making use of specialist role/s etc. Over time you will make some inroads toward figuring out the UI. That can kill most people faster than the guy shooting! Its a nightmare of little windows and short-cut buttons etc. Takes a lot of repeat application and mental mapping to become instinctual.
Most non-blob PVP is largely a team sport these days with the best kills being the most vulnerable and least likely to fire back. FWIW my first lick was in a Merlin in Daras. I was gang 'gaped by a sensor boosted apoc in one volley. They didn't even bother to flip me the bird.
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:50:00 -
[14]
Studying PVP like a science is only going to get you so far and there will probably be many things that you don't yet know. For example, has your studying so far taught you all about session change timers? Things like; what causes them, how to get a visual indication of them, what you can and cannot do whilst influenced by one. PVP is great but there is nothing like experience when it comes to the learning.
As stated in a previous reply, whilst the "pirate hubs" are good places to easily find a fight they are not good places to try and find 1v1 engagements. You said that there are some corp mates that have got you into this, try arranging some fights with them. Don't fight to hull, fight to destruction. If there are a few of them online try and initiate a constellation free-for-all. Pick a constellation close by and designate that a combat zone. If you're in there then you can be shot at by other members of the group.
Alternatively, head out to 0.0 there are plenty of areas where you can find lone frigs/cruisers to fight against. Don't be scared by the fact that it is :quiver: 0.0 :quiver: Grab a cheap clone and go play and don't worry too much if/when you get podded. Since you said that you've watched PVP vids I'll assume that you have watched the CCP-test one. (The two trial accounts in Rifters having fun in 0.0) If not, pop to eve-files and search for "TheCCPTest_divx_mp3.avi". Do something similar. Create a trial account alt and give it a bit of basic training, bung it 10M for a bunch of frigs and go nuts! No clone cost since you won't be above clone grade alpha (the free one) so nothing to lose.
If *all* else fails eve-mail me from Garak with the name of your main and we can set up a 1v1 to the death. Hull type of your choosing.
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iudex
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Navigator For most players it is not the thrill of 1 v 1 that entices them to PvP but more the thrill of actually winning so finding that honorable 1 v 1 is going to be difficult at times. Since the sandbox concept of EVE allows for honor and deceit in equal measures, you should always be prepared to bring a bazooka to a knife fight
Personally speaking I PvP pretty much everyday and have no difficulty finding 1 v 1 fights but telling you where to find them could "out" me so all I can suggest is that you keep looking around.
Good Sir. How do you know that people are not looking for that 1v1 pvp thrill, when you never offered the mechanics for an undisturbed 1v1 pvp fight ? I for one would really enjoy that types of fights. And I was very pleased a few years ago, when I watched the CCP fan fest panel and heard that CCP is going to bring out an arena (you announced it as a replacement of the tournament back then), where people can have that undisturbed fights and others could bet on the outcome. Too bad you didn't give that idea a try. I think there are much more people that like to experience a fair fight under preset conditions from time to time (in addition to the other forms of pvp) than you think.
__________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 challenge them to a 1 vs 1, then when they bring their 20, drop your carrierfleet on their heads and stare at a black screen for an hour! unless offcourse they have a dreadfleet standing by, in which case it still could become an awesome lagfest!!!
fyp
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.30 11:59:00 -
[17]
Simple.... If people just wanted 1v1 fights they would happen. They do happen. They just don't happen very often. You don't need a programmed mechanic to force people to have them. That's kinda the whole point of open-ended sandbox-ness.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2010.07.30 12:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 30/07/2010 12:14:16 Posting as my main
Half of PVP is going to be setting up the terms of the engagement. You will need to learn how to kill before support arrives, split up a gang into smaller parts and use aggression mechanics to your advantage for a quick escape.
I spent maybe a year and a half teaching people to do this but I just don't have time for it anymore.
Expect to always be blobbed by fail PVP'ers who will never engage anything below 2 to 1 odds in their favor. Ships that can tank, ships that can land massive Volley damage, ships that are fast and get GTF out fast will be your friend. Which style you choose is up to you and your personal play style.
^^^ You either attempt to master the above (which will take a good long while to get good at) or to jump on the band wagon like everyone else here has, and blob like a mother****er. If you can find 3-4 other good people to fly with--who would uphold the same mentality as you--you will be more successful. But finding people willing to wait until conditions are just right, in a game filled with kids with A.D.D (or adults who act like kids with A.D.D) will prove to be very difficult.
@ Thread Posters: "Blobs are for people who simply can't PVP" (TM)
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VooDooPimp
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Posted - 2010.07.30 12:15:00 -
[19]
I logged on my alt the other day. I need a ship to fire a few rounds at, and test my setup. Little did I know my alt called a few of his corp mates, set a trap and kicked my a$$.
1 vs 1 pvp is hard.....don't trust anyone, not even your own alt.
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.30 12:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Navigator you should always be prepared to bring a bazooka to a knife fight
This guy knows.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.07.30 12:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gladys Pank on 30/07/2010 12:48:13 No offence intended but letting your Rifter get jumped by an Ishkur and Dramiel suggests there is quite a bit you don't know. Theory and videos will only get you so far. Get out there more (much more) and with every engagement you will learn something.
People don't have to be in the same corp or alliance to roam together. Don't assume a system with 5 players all in different corps are going to be doing their own thing.
The key to picking a fight is being aware of your surroundings and where ships are. Use the ship scanner constantly and pick off where people are at. When you know there are only 3 active ships in system and you nail one on 5 degree scan, you can attempt to jump them before any possible backup comes in. set the scanner to a closer range while landing on your target to know better if there is backup incoming.
Do your scanning at a celestial aligned to a different one so if someone jumps in on you unfavourably you can GTFO easily.
There is so much to pvp in this game. Some people think it just involves getting into an optimal orbit and hitting a few f buttons.
Most of the pvp happens before the fight, certainly for small scale.
Finally, solo pvp makes it much much harder, but far more rewarding when you win. It's also the best way to learn a lot of things (mostly through losses but Rifters are cheap). Soloing will teach you so much that relying on a gang will not.
Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist |
Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.07.30 12:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs Posting as Alt
As stated I am a mission whoring player who also does PI.
I recently had a look into PVP as a number of changes within the players of our corp helped me to move into that arena. So I fitted up a rifter and went into Old Man Star. I spent maybe 30 minutes looking for some action when 2 ships turn up at once.
Different corp,s different alliances yet both gank me. Needless to say a Rifter Vs a Dramiel and an Ishkur [ I think ] is not gonna end well for me.
Yes I die, No biggy. Thing is as I've never PVPed properly before I wanna know why getting a 1 Vs 1 is so hard? I have studied PVP like a science I have watched many videos on the topic there is very little I don't know.
So I want my KB to start looking nice as apposed to what it looks now - absolute "****"
Id love to get some 1 Vs 1 action is it too hard to get these days?
If you want "fair" PVP then go try RvB it's more of a PVP light and takes place in high sec with various rules. Other wise keep doing what you are doing and experience will eventually teach you a few things.
This experience should have taught you to not engage either a Ishkur or a Dramiel in a Rifter. Neither are typically good targets for the Rifter but sometimes it's not always your choice.
One of the most important things to learn in PVP, is knowing what are viable targets and how to stay away from the ones that aren't. This is something that you can only learn by experience because there are always many variables for every fight which need to be taken into account for each specific fight.
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Giovanni DalleBandeNere
Two Brothers Mining Corp. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.30 13:30:00 -
[23]
is not that hard to have 1Vs1 PvP,even thou requires more time, option have been already explained: 1- do it with yr corpmates 2- avoid pirate hubs (Old Man Star and the likes) 3- "patrol" not too crowdy low-sec systems, check belts, scan for anoms/signatures etc 4- play smart, u enter a system with 4 guys in, all negative guys,before engagin scan for shiptypes (and maybe check their BIOs), u could handle them all? nope? well get somewhere else do not engage
fact is that PvP guys (i'm not a great PvPer tbh) r like sharks, they smell the blood flowin,and hurrry over to taste it i used to have pretty frequent 1Vs1 engagements in the Parts/Obe pipe (also Vit/onne pipe is not bad), so not far from OMS, and i wasn't even searchin for them ^_^ lost my very 1st drake there vs a Geddon (couple of years ago on my other toon)and it took quite a while with no interference GL with yr search
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.07.30 13:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs So I want my KB to start looking nice as apposed to what it looks now - absolute "****"
Don't fall for that BS. You'll find yourself chasing shuttles and noobships to fill up your board.
Pretty weak excuse to PvP, in my opinion.
My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ford Mersombre
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.30 14:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Navigator For most players it is not the thrill of 1 v 1 that entices them to PvP but more the thrill of actually winning so finding that honorable 1 v 1 is going to be difficult at times. Since the sandbox concept of EVE allows for honor and deceit in equal measures, you should always be prepared to bring a bazooka to a knife fight
Personally speaking I PvP pretty much everyday and have no difficulty finding 1 v 1 fights but telling you where to find them could "out" me so all I can suggest is that you keep looking around.
Sir Molle?
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.30 14:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ralnik
If you want "fair" PVP then go try RvB it's more of a PVP light and takes place in high sec with various rules. Other wise keep doing what you are doing and experience will eventually teach you a few things.
Hell we don't even promise fair fights in RVB. You can get even fights and 1v1's are honored but that is a far cry from a fair fight.
Ralnik is 100% right though probably 90% of PVP in EVE is knowing what ships to take on and which aren't even going to be a close contest.
So many different things go into determining the outcome of a fight a goodly portion of which take place before one even undocks.
Consider a 1v1 I had the other day I fought a character with 3x my sp, The fight was hardly fair, not because he had more sp but because I have like 10X the actual combat experience and my fit was a serious PVP fit while his was some haphazard non-rigged crap he was playing around with.
In EVE a fair fight generally means that one party or the other screwed up. There are always discrepancies in SP, Experience, fits, implants, availability of back up, the list goes on and on.
PVP in EVE is also generally a team sport. Not to say that Solo PVP isn't possible but it's definitely playing in hard mode and as many point out is more often 1 v many rather than 1v1.
Reading and studying and watching video's is all fine and dandy and useful but there is no substitute for actually going out and getting into fights, lots of them.
If nothing else you need to get beyond the combat shakes and past the point where it give you an adrenaline rush so you remember important things like overheating and turning on your guns.
My suggestion would be to join up with someone who does a lot of fighting.
You options include things like:
RVB (my personal preference but I'm biased) you can get lots of fights relatively easily. You'll lose a lot of ships especially at the beginning but we're high sec based so logistics is trivial. The no podding rule means that your implants are generally safer than the alternatives (don't confuse safer with safe though accidents happen and 3rd party deccers don't honor our rules, Nor do we extend those rules to them) No standing issues to worry about (well save for needing to be on decent terms with the Gallente Federation). Cons are that a lot of people don't consider it "real" PVP, and you'll not get as much experience with the metagame.
FW much more serious business but still lots of combat opportunities, mostly in low sec some standing concerns particularly if you're going to run FW missions. Much more metagaming than RVB. Generally bigger more expensive ships fielded than RVB. They are also paranoid about spy's, An upside of the standings issue is that the FW missions are extremely lucrative and they have access to unique LP items like the Tier 1 navy Battleships.
Join a PVP focused corporation, (high sec mercs/war deccers, Low sec pirates, null sec alliances) lots of options here just look through the recruiting forums for something that strikes you're fancy.
You could also do one of the Agony courses.
Best bet IMO is to go somewhere that you can get lots of combat time and where you'll be able to fly with experienced PVP'rs.
As to your core question of why getting 1v1's is so hard.
People like to win and as such will always be looking for an edge and in the end the absolute best edge you can get is to bring friends.
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2010.07.30 14:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs
I have studied PVP like a science I have watched many videos on the topic there is very little I don't know.
If you studied tennis videos like a science, would you expect winning the first match against a pro?
Even in a 1v1 there's at least one person who dies or runs away and since you're less experienced, it will most likely be you.
You can't try once. Buy 30 ships with fittings, drop them in a station near some lowsec or 0.0 where you want to get your feet wet, set your clone to that station and go out looking for a fight.
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