The tank issue is separate. If the Mack had a tank similar to the current SISI dump Hulk (topping at ~22k), the Skiff would be king. If the Skiff's ore bay was then reduced to ~2 un-gang-bonused cycles, it would be a toss up.

The Hulk has the most Yield Measured by Roid->Cargo. Which is nice, but you need a Hauler.
The Mack should have the most Yield when measured Solo, Roid -> Station.

Maybe getting the numbers right for the Ore hold would be too difficult, I don't know, but that's how I envision the yield-cargo balance between the Hulk and the Mack.

the skiff's the most pointless mining ship for mining; it's giving up everything for a level of tank that simply isn't required. hence we go back to hulk vs mack, and unless you're doing some extremely long mining sessions the mack has the best of all 3 worlds so we're back in the situation we're in now.

i definitely agree that the barges are stepping on each other's toes in terms of their unique roles. there's no need for the skiff to have an ore bay as large as it is, that's for certain.

i think the hulk/mack did need tank buffs however else they simply wouldn't be viable in 0.0 space where the rats would tear them to shreds without deadspace/faction modules. however in keeping them 0.0 sec viable they also become unprofitable to gank which renders the skiff redundant in high sec. either way some of the ships will never see a use in some parts of space.

Give 'em an active tank bonus and they'll be fine in 0.0 or give them a resist bonus and further reduce their raw HP.

There are bunches of ways to make them tanky vs rats but flimsy v people.

From the look of it, I don't think the Hulk's losing any of its ability to tank rats (I could easily be wrong. I don't have SISI installed due to space constraints, and I'm way too stupid to try modding Pyfa)

the hulk is losing a bit of resists and some shields/armour/structure i think.

and yeah, those changes would be good to let it tank rats well enough but still be vulnerable to gankers if poorly fit.

The Hulk should be vulnerable to gankers unless actively flown. It should not be able to tank a gank. That's the Skiff's job.

i'd say that depends entirely upon what's trying to gank it.
a 'nado, or a battleship? sure exhumer wrecks everywhere!
some thing i was given for free in the tutorial? no, not a chance.

You got a T2 fit Catalyst in your tutorial?

It should be profitable to gank a Hulk. Otherwise the tanky ship is worthless.

Bring back insurance and we'll be doing it in Cruisers and BCs. Until then, it's Dessies all the way.

it shouldn't be profitable to gank a hulk; ccp said so.
the size of the ship isn't really the issue, it's the loss incurred by the ganker. in empire space the ganker's loss should be greater than their gain, that's why an exhumer should be able to repel a destroyer. null sec and low sec are for profitable ganks.

nothing is stopping you destroying an exhumer with a bigger ship. of course i'll wager when the profit dries up so does people's motivation to gank.

If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.

you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.

Yeah, in Low/Null/WH, the EHP of a tackled ship that can't shoot back is so very, very important.

aaand that's why they shouldn't have removed the warp stab bonus

EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.

Yeah, viable gank target...

aaand how would that affect the value of the Skiff's EHP in Low/Null/WH?

EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.

Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.

because it's ehp actually matters if it can avoid being tackled due to wcs...

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.

Where did I say any of that? Link where I said I'd unsub.

I'm in SniggWaffe down in Delve (FWST-8 II - Blood Raiders Logistic Support). How often do you think I get easy targets there?

Ganking's a little side project that I do on occasion because I find it amusing.

That's Goons space. People are always looking ways to get something from Goons. Especially sov.

So now the Blood Raiders NPC Corp are part of the CFC? Really?

Yes. And in case you didn't know Goons invaded Delve during ATX.

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.

By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.

TEST = GSF

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.

Nope. And when did the Blood Raiders join the CFC, as you claim?

During ATX. They had to otherwise Goons would have killed them.

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.

During ATX. They had to otherwise Goons would have killed them.