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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:04:00 -
[361] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You should not be able to make Isk AFK without risk. The AFK Sentryboat in a PLEX ("AFK" Mission ships are nowhere near as AFK as Ice mining in the new Mack is) make less Isk/hr than a Mack, and will lose several hours of profit if he gets bumped away from his sentries. And why is that a problem? If I miss a cycle AFK mining ice I can only blame myself, I can't blame that Retriever pilot 80km from me. If the player is AFK then the player is AFK. How hard it is to understand something simple as that? Away from frigging keyboard. I'm talking about the Dead Drones costing him replacement cash. Not missing cycles. Again, making ISK AFK without risk is bad game design. The Sentryboat makes a pittance compared to the AFK Mack (current SISI build) and runs the risk of losing money on the project if he gets bumped in the first few hours of the session. Yes. I know what AFK means. "AFK" Mission ships allow you to alt-tab away for a little bit, but you have to keep an eye out for spawns. They don't allow you to actually leave your computer without risk. The current SISI Mack build costs too much to gank, so it won't be ganked by me, so sitting it in an Ice belt and wandering away for 45m at a time is perfectly viable and safe from me. That's not good game design from me. Why would CCP be interested in making miners safe from me, be good game design? Fixed Nope. Find the killmails of properly tanked Hulks that were significantly unprofitable to gank. Then we'll talk about Tank not providing safety.
You are hugely overstating the issue. Not all of the kills end up in killmails in fact most of the type of kills that are not about profit will not have kill mails. |
Pipa Porto
574
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:07:00 -
[362] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:You are hugely overstating the issue. Not all of the kills end up in killmails in fact most of the type of kills that are not about profit will not have kill mails.
Why? What evidence do you have to suggest that non-profit gankers are less likely to upload their kills? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:25:00 -
[363] - Quote
Carlton Foster wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk.
Do you have a source on that?
See the mining article from page 30 onwards in issue 28 of the magnificent EON magazine .Or failing that watch the pre-final commentary for this years alliance tournament with the English 'head-honcho' guy from CCP.(Apologies for not remembering his proper name .) |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:36:00 -
[364] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:You are hugely overstating the issue. Not all of the kills end up in killmails in fact most of the type of kills that are not about profit will not have kill mails. Why? What evidence do you have to suggest that non-profit gankers are less likely to upload their kills?
I know of 17 hulks killed last month that were all not profitable and none of them have kill mails posted. And I can not post any more info than that about those. The motivation had nothing to do with ganking for profit. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:40:00 -
[365] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:for those that don't know, the hulk is getting another 2%/level yield bonus which means even with t1 strips it's going to outmine any other ship and will fill an orca give or take 60 mins in optimal conditions. YAY! Cheap Minerals! Miners realize that a higher average yield means they just have to do more hauling for the same income, right? you do realise what ever happens with prices; miners don't give a **** because as mineral prices goes down so does the prices of things we want to buy. you're mining and hauling for the same amount of time no matter what our minerals are worth. isk value and isk/hour is largely irrelevant.
I don't know where you're coming from with this one 'Dave' Or whether you are a 'proper' miner? Pipa hits the nail on the head regarding buying stuff in that you are more likely to be buying items constructed with 'moon goo' derived items. So you are just shooting yourself in the foot with your comment.
The main problem with the mining ships rebalancing is indeed that it will increase yield from dumbing down the skill reqs, increasing the obtainable yield, and therefore resulting in a fall in price of minerals. This is bad news for the professional mining community all round to my mind. Just when we have reached good price levels a spanner has been thrown into the machine. |
Pipa Porto
575
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:49:00 -
[366] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:You are hugely overstating the issue. Not all of the kills end up in killmails in fact most of the type of kills that are not about profit will not have kill mails. Why? What evidence do you have to suggest that non-profit gankers are less likely to upload their kills? I know of 17 hulks killed last month that were all not profitable and none of them have kill mails posted. And I can not post any more info than that about those. The motivation had nothing to do with ganking for profit.
9000 kills posted. 17 not posted. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:57:00 -
[367] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Where in the world did I say that? Quote and Link. No link needed. That's better than those mythical Incursion runners and AFK Dominix pilots make. Why would you want to lose best risk free income in the hisec? Again, your ISK estimate is laughably wrong. It takes some time to set up a gank, so there is no way to do it 4 times an hour on one character. You need an alt to scoop loot, so you can't profit at all with one character. You need an alt in an orca once you go -5, so you can't gank at all with one character. You need at least 2 meta fit Catalysts to kill an untanked Hulk, so you can't gank at all with one character in a meta fit catalyst. Stop lying. I don't think all gankers do it for the profit. There are a lot of mentally deficient pilots out there. I don't know for sure but I think one meta fit catalyst could take down a 2 MLU untanked Hulk atm. I do know, from a defensive point of view, that one T2 fit catalyst cannot take down a 1 MLU with some tank Hulk atm. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:02:00 -
[368] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Droxlyn wrote:Dave stark wrote:i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's. I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3. The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with) Drox mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size.
Not sure why you are giving mining advice. Anyone using two MLU atm with the GSF 'ship insurance' scheme still running is looking to lose their ship. |
Pipa Porto
575
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:03:00 -
[369] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Where in the world did I say that? Quote and Link. No link needed. That's better than those mythical Incursion runners and AFK Dominix pilots make. Why would you want to lose best risk free income in the hisec? Again, your ISK estimate is laughably wrong. It takes some time to set up a gank, so there is no way to do it 4 times an hour on one character. You need an alt to scoop loot, so you can't profit at all with one character. You need an alt in an orca once you go -5, so you can't gank at all with one character. You need at least 2 meta fit Catalysts to kill an untanked Hulk, so you can't gank at all with one character in a meta fit catalyst. Stop lying. I don't think all gankers do it for the profit. There are a lot of mentally deficient pilots out there. I don't know for sure but I think one meta fit catalyst could take down a 2 MLU untanked Hulk atm. I do know, from a defensive point of view , that one T2 fit catalyst cannot take down a 1 MLU with some tank Hulk atm.
Nope. Meta 4 with OH and a .5 system is some 600 Damage short of an untanked Hulk. 200 short with Cargo rigs. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:14:00 -
[370] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Haffsol wrote:Quote:The Mack gets a base 50% bonus to mining now. (making 2 strips the equivalent of 3) Just like the retriever will it always have the 2x bonus on ice blocks mined in a cycle and the trick that if you stop your cycle at 51% you still get the 2 blocks? I don't get who's king of ice mining and which are the new rigs you're talking about. mackinaw is losing the 2x bonus on ice blocks, it's now a cycle time reduction in order to make the mackinaw's 2 strips equal the hulk's 3 strips. however, the hulk gets better yield bonuses per level of exhumer than the other barges do. hence why the hulk is the new king of ice mining in terms of blocks/hour. at exhumer 1 there's almost no reason to fly a hulk. at exhumer 5 there's lots of reasons.
Hmm. I'm getting confused now. Does this mean the Mackinaw is largely a redundant ship now then if the Hulk gets better yield when mining ice? |
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Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:38:00 -
[371] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Denidil wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Denidil wrote:Dave stark wrote:with all due respect, any hulk fit without mlu IIs are pointless.
if you're sacrificing those to fit a tank on a hulk you may as well just mine in a mlu'd skiff, odds are you'll have both more ehp and yield. you are correct. Well, a Hulk has a bonus of 30% and a Skiff has a bonus of 5%. So you need to fit at least 3 MLU to match a Hulk, and the Skiff has 2 low slots (unless that was changed, as I don't see it on pastebin). read what we were saying dual MLU skiff vs non-MLU'ed hulk I did. I even quoted it. Please explain assuming I'm clueless, as I apparently am. No MLU Hulk: 30% bonus. Dual MLU Skiff: 23% bonus. That's a 7% cost for durability and a larger ore hold. If the size of the hold is the issue, then of course Dave stark's comment should have mentioned that (i.e, when mining solo) , rather than being an apparent blanket statement. But if I'm still missing something, please enlighten me. I'm trying to understand these "new" ships, just like everyone else.
I'm with you Tau. It is indeed very confusing. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:55:00 -
[372] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Tassian Marrix wrote:Dominika Brumarova wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Some of the changes are good (Procurer/Skiff's HP, Retriever/Mackinaw's cargo hold, the mining yield buff for both ship lines and the mercoxit and Ice rigs). But the unilateral buff of mining barge and exhumers EHP is a terrible thing to do.
Not only is it devaluating the Skiff buff (why bother with it when a hulk can easily reach over 40k EHP?), but it is also making the life of afk-miners and bots much easier, all while not adressing the structural issues of the mining profession: boring, poor and lacking improvement.
What the game need is not brick-tanked barge able to survive to multiple suicide tornadoes. These always existed, they're battleships (and now, skiffs). a 25000m3 ore hold is an amusing gimmick, but ultimately reward peoples who play eve afk.
Your regular miner, that poor **** who was paying attention, who had friends with him, who knew what the hell he was doing, will be left untouched by these changes. His hulk's yield will remain the same, and even going into big scary low/nullsec wont improve his condition much. In the current (and, apparently, future) state, he's still a poor **** who play a role so un-challenging that a bot can fill it, and be just as efficient as he is.
Mining dont need a 100k EHP mining barge, nor a barge able to mine 30 minutes without requiring a single click, mining need a ship, or a mechanism, that makes a human better than a script. The best post in whole topic. Pure truth! But it is not all truth. Mining did need a ship that could effectively haul for itself and it did need a ship with a solid tank. Now that we will be getting those they can work to fix the second problem of mining being a super boring activity. Yes, mining needed a sturdy ship, and a ship with a large cargo. But that's not really what is happening there. We're getting, really, 3 sturdy ships (two on the level of a battlecruiser, one on the level of battleships -with the size and speed of a cruiser-), and 2 ships with a large cargo bay (17500 for the skiff, 37500 for the mackinaw). And both these ships actually reach about, apparently, 80% of the yield of a hulk. As I said before, and I cant emphasize that enough, it means that the miner who was careful enough to not get ganked, who used orca support to drop his mineral, wont gain anything from this update. The players who were doing good wont see their situation improve, but instead the value of their yield diminush, as "bad" miners get a safer and easier life and flood the market.
I suspect an ulterior motive 'Pisov' but I totally and utterly agree with your second paragraph. The professional mining community is indeed being shafted by the mining vessel 'rebalancing'. No good will come from these unnecessary and unhelpful changes. Unfortunately too many posts from pilots who can't fit their ships properly have brought this ********* upon us. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 13:05:00 -
[373] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:i definitely agree that the barges are stepping on each other's toes in terms of their unique roles. there's no need for the skiff to have an ore bay as large as it is, that's for certain.
i think the hulk/mack did need tank buffs however else they simply wouldn't be viable in 0.0 space where the rats would tear them to shreds without deadspace/faction modules. however in keeping them 0.0 sec viable they also become unprofitable to gank which renders the skiff redundant in high sec. either way some of the ships will never see a use in some parts of space.
Who uses Mackinaw & Hulk in low or nul sec???? Covetor is the ship to use there at present pre-'rebalancing'. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:23:00 -
[374] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:You need at least 2 meta fit Catalysts to kill an untanked Hulk, so you can't gank at all with one character in a meta fit catalyst.
Catalyst: 500+ dps vs. [Hulk, 9,15k EHP]
[Empty Low slot] [Empty Low slot]
[Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot]
[Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot]
[Empty Rig slot] [Empty Rig slot]
Fight!
500 * 20 = 10k 10k > 9,15k |
Charlie Jacobson
23
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:31:00 -
[375] - Quote
I don't think "untanked" in this case means having nothing but strip miners. You can either fit it with MLUs for extra yield and whatever tank will still fit after that, or you can sacrifice some yield for more tank instead. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
319
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:58:00 -
[376] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote: Hmm. I'm getting confused now. Does this mean the Mackinaw is largely a redundant ship now then if the Hulk gets better yield when mining ice?
yes, the hulk mines anything better than any one. that's it's new role.
Celgar Thurn wrote:Who uses Mackinaw & Hulk in low or nul sec???? Covetor is the ship to use there at present pre-'rebalancing'.
every one does. nobody uses a covetor because it can't tank the rats. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
577
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:15:00 -
[377] - Quote
Charlie Jacobson wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You need at least 2 meta fit Catalysts to kill an untanked Hulk, so you can't gank at all with one character in a meta fit catalyst. Catalyst: 500+ dps vs. [Hulk, 9,15k EHP] [Empty Low slot] [Empty Low slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II [Empty Rig slot] [Empty Rig slot] Fight! 500 * 20 = 10k 10k > 9,15k I don't think "untanked" in this case means having nothing but strip miners. You can either fit it with MLUs for extra yield and whatever tank will still fit after that, or you can sacrifice some yield for more tank instead.
Actually I did mean it.
For some reason, at the time, my Pyfa was showing an untanked Hulk having just over 10k EHP vs AM. Not quite sure why.
So, an untanked Hulk can be killed by a Meta Catalyst with perfect skills. Doesn't explain why you'd ever want to intentionally fit no tank on a Hulk. Especially when you can do this fit and have 20k EHP.
[Hulk, Hisec Mininh]
Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
902
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:45:00 -
[378] - Quote
Best fleet Hulk I can come up with on SiSi (includes Siege Warfare booster). Requires a 4% power implant when using T2 strips (5% implant is more common so cheaper though).
Because of the resist reduction, I just can't see going with 3x invuls anymore.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/TauCabalander/New-EHP-Hulk.png
I've not been able to fit a 3x MLU Mackinaw that was more EHP and didn't have resist holes. If anyone has, I'd like to see the fit. I've tried previously mentioned fits; they might be outdated. Keep in mind in-game EHP is calculated based on damage to lowest resist, unlike EFT.
[Hulk, EHP] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Internal Force Field Array I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Thermic Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5 |
Pipa Porto
627
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 08:32:00 -
[379] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Best fleet Hulk I can come up with on SiSi (includes Siege Warfare booster). Requires a 4% power implant when using T2 strips (5% implant is more common so cheaper though). Because of the resist reduction, I just can't see going with 3x invuls anymore. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/TauCabalander/New-EHP-Hulk.pngI've not been able to fit a 3x MLU Mackinaw that was more EHP and didn't have resist holes. If anyone has, I'd like to see the fit. I've tried previously mentioned fits; they might be outdated. Keep in mind in-game EHP is calculated based on damage to lowest resist, unlike EFT.
To Help out:
EM EHP: 48,867 EHP Therm: 56,334 EHP Kin: 41387 EHP EXP: 48,878 EHP
Doing damage patterns armed with that is trivial. Just a weighted average. By the way, is that Heated?
Gives 48860 EHP against Void.
Guess CCP didn't want the Skiff to be a viable ship after all. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
902
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 10:54:00 -
[380] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:To Help out:
EM EHP: 48,867 EHP Therm: 56,334 EHP Kin: 41387 EHP EXP: 48,878 EHP
Doing damage patterns armed with that is trivial. Just a weighted average. By the way, is that Heated? No, not overheated, though as I described I had a siege warfare booster (Tengu of course) and running an armor T1 passive resist link. I was too lazy to get out my primary booster, as he wasn't in his boosting ship on SiSi, not that a bit of armor from the T2 link would have made much difference.
Pipa Porto wrote:Gives 48860 EHP against Void.
Guess CCP didn't want the Skiff to be a viable ship after all. I think the ships are pretty much what CCP intended, and not what I hoped for. Personally, I don't see a reason to use anything but a Hulk in my fleet.
I'm still hoping I'm missing something, hence my continued posting.
I'm especially peeved about the loss of the +2 w-stab on the Skiff. I think that was a huge mistake. It might have got miners into lowsec. |
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TroyMcRoy
Bud Spencer Fanboys
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:08:00 -
[381] - Quote
As i noticed the changes on the test server...this rebalance will be superb!
And guys, thanks for keeping us updated with detailed infos about each ship. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:11:00 -
[382] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: I think the ships are pretty much what CCP intended, and not what I hoped for. Personally, I don't see a reason to use anything but a Hulk in my fleet.
that depends on how your fleet is set up. small fleet with an off grid orca? mackinaws are still the way to go. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1044
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 12:43:00 -
[383] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: I think the ships are pretty much what CCP intended, and not what I hoped for. Personally, I don't see a reason to use anything but a Hulk in my fleet.
I'm still hoping I'm missing something, hence my continued posting.
I'm especially peeved about the loss of the +2 w-stab on the Skiff. I think that was a huge mistake. It might have got miners into lowsec.
I'm pretty much onboard with your reasoning Tau ... I've still got a Mack and Skiff, so I'll play around with them ... and likely end up with the ships filling the same roles as they do now, with the exception that the Skiff may just get a regular Strip Miner... |
Zack Cordell
d'Bastard Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 12:55:00 -
[384] - Quote
OK, so I built some Ice Harvester Rigs last night on SiSi and took my max yield Ice Miner (with a Yeti IH-1005) and maxed out Orca support into the ice field and tried a variety of ships. So the grid below should give the max ice yield dependent on the number of MU's fitted to each ship. Note that I ignored the fact that I couldn't on-line all the strips so no guarantee its practical.
Hope it formats OK and its of some help.
ShipMU'sStripsHoldOre HoldCycle Time (s)Blocks per hourBlocks to Fill Ore BayTime to Fill Hold (Mins) MacKinaw0235031,250134.3253.6031.0034.70 MacKinaw1235031,250122.2358.9131.0031.58 MacKinaw2235031,250111.2364.7331.0028.73 MacKinaw3235031,250101.2271.1331.0026.15 Hulk033507,500169.6863.657.009.90 Hulk133507,500154.4169.947.009.01 Hulk233507,500140.5176.867.008.20 Covetor035007,000180.2959.907.0010.52 Covetor135007,000164.0665.837.009.57 Covetor235007,000149.372.347.008.71 Skiff0135017,50067.1653.6017.009.51 Skiff1135017,50061.1158.9117.008.66 Skiff2135017,50055.6164.7417.007.88 Retreiver0235028,125141.3950.9228.0032.99 Retreiver1235028,125128.6655.9628.0030.02 Retreiver2235028,125117.0861.5028.0027.32 Retreiver3235028,125106.5567.5728.0024.86 Procurer0135015,00070.6950.9315.008.84 Procurer1135015,00064.3355.9615.008.04 Procurer2135015,00058.8461.1815.007.36
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 13:44:00 -
[385] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Guess CCP didn't want the Skiff to be a viable ship after all.
If you don't have skills to gank tanked ships maybe you should continue ganking those untanked ships. Getting friends should help too.
And again, if you think Skiff is useless with its role what role you would give it? Tanky mining ship isn't acceptable because you say it's useless role. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
360
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 14:06:00 -
[386] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Guess CCP didn't want the Skiff to be a viable ship after all. If you don't have skills to gank tanked ships maybe you should continue ganking those untanked ships. Getting friends should help too. And again, if you think Skiff is useless with its role what role you would give it? Tanky mining ship isn't acceptable because you say it's useless role.
a third role in itself is entirely redundant, to be honest. ccp are only shoehorning it in there because they have 3 ships to use.
when you mine all you do is shoot rocks, and haul ore. that's covered by the mack and the hulk quite adequately. we shouldn't have to have a third ship to avoid being blown up every time some one sneezes. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
314
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:40:00 -
[387] - Quote
They are certainly marching a direction.. I can't say I like the new non roles idea.. or as some people are claiming, roles that are only about the size of the hold and the tank. I was hoping for more cargo space..than 350 of whatever it is today. ...and they still haven't seeded the rigs for testing.. though the BPs are there. Still many of the changes I do like.
I really would like the 500 points back in the hulks ore bay. CCP shaved off 500 and made a "cargo hold" with that ...then they shrunk that to 300 and something, proving that the two bays are not tied together... so putting the 500 back in the ore hold really should not hurt anything. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Fluffy Sheep
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 21:14:00 -
[388] - Quote
With roles removed, this means that mercoxit is going to be a little more expensive to mine right? 3 * crystals being used on the hulk instead of the one on the skiff?
Also this has to make training the deep core mining skill a necessary safety feature. You know, for when you loose concentration and accidentally get a little close to that mercoxit rock you are shooting at. Or a fleet member unknowingly gets a little close to it ;P |
Zak Lonestar
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 23:01:00 -
[389] - Quote
For people who dont have 30 million SP, at least you can undock in high sec and feel not totally naked.
---Low --- MLUII Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
---Med---- Adaptive Invul Field I Adaptive Invul Field I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
---High--- MSMII MSMII MSMII
---Rig--- Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
EHP (roughly) 17.9 with all skills at V. Figure closer to 16-16.5 with mediocre skills. Will run cap stable. Its not the best, it isnt meant to buy. Its meant to be what you fly, if you fly, until you can mount the best. Figure 700 DPS from a ganker and you can survive just a tick over 20 seconds. Should be enough if you dont venture out into low rated hi sec systems.
Thoughts?
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
539
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 23:17:00 -
[390] - Quote
Fluffy Sheep wrote:With roles removed, this means that mercoxit is going to be a little more expensive to mine right? 3 * crystals being used on the hulk instead of the one on the skiff?
Also this has to make training the deep core mining skill a necessary safety feature. You know, for when you loose concentration and accidentally get a little close to that mercoxit rock you are shooting at. Or a fleet member unknowingly gets a little close to it ;P
Well, you could continue to mine it in a skiff (using a single crystal)
Sure, you don't get the 60% crystal yield multiplier per level. But you do get a 200% yield multiplier on all strip miners. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
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