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Skunk Gracklaw
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:02:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Incarna Hate?!? The forum player base has clearly stated they want Ambulation/WiS/Incarna since 2006. The "I don't want Incarna" is a new sentiment. I am going to be bold and try to summarize the sentiment as
"I don't want Incarna if it means I can't fight for 18 months"
Please try to keep your complaints focused. The "vocal minority" used to say it will never happen, etc.
State what you want people, and if you REALLY don't want Incarna at all, please be clear as to why.
I've been kind of meh about Incarna not really caring one way or the other until I saw just how many resources they are putting into it. In my opinion CCP hasn't explained what Incarna will bring to the game that justifies that many developers working on it. I've seen the ambulation videos but I haven't heard anything about how walking in stations will improve Eve gameplay as a whole. I have a sneaking suspicion that CCP is thinking that the mere fact you can exit your ship and walk around in stations is going to attract millions of players who, for whatever reason, have given Eve a pass. It's not going to happen. CCP should ask SOE what happens when you abandon your current playerbase in an attempt to bring in a new population of new players (NGE anyone?).
If there is *anything* to Incarna other than being able to wander around stations then CCP should describe it now and explain why it's better than holding off on it and spending some time fixing what's broken in the current game.
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:58:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Saehta The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list.
Continue on with our message
I agree with this guy on the other side of Vale.
One thing I'd add, though, is that it's all about the money.
CCP is trying to ramp up to three games from one. As far as I know, they have not taken any recent outside investment (Wikipedia says that it's still majority-owned by the founders, and that they sold a minority stake for 2.6 mil in 2000 which I'm sure still smarts since that's now two weeks of revenue). They're mostly financing WoD and DUST with internal cash flow. This strategy, therefore, basically involves:
1) Cutting development expenditures on EVE to a bare minimum. Specifically, use as few of your $90k to $120k+ senior coders as possible, and lots of your $35k to $60k "content producers" and QA guys to add bolt-on fluff, like new agents or missions or whatever. Once non-technical people have tools to build ingame stuff, it's pretty easy and cheap to have them do so.
2) Maximize the overlap between EVE and your other games. Incarna is the biggest example of this -- devs working on Incarna for EVE are also, really, working on WoD and (possibly) DUST. It also wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if their new server farm was also rolled out to be able to also host those other games (since hardware was never the reason for server-side lag; it's the code).
Obviously, once people give their money to CCP, it belongs to CCP and if they want to spend it on hookers and blow, good on them.
But it's also pretty stupid to think that you can go from developing 1 game with your $50m/y in revenue to developing 3 games with the same revenue and that the first game won't deteriorate.
I think players are interested in Incarna but they're not interested in it for the same reasons CCP is. CCP wants to develop WoD and expense part/most of it to the EVE playerbase, so to speak. This is a lot of resources we're talking. The playerbase, through the CSM, has made it clear that there are literally hundreds of things that they'd rather have fixed up with those resources.
But, honestly, unless the suits decide that they're risking killing the goose that lays the golden eggs with their 3 games of development from 1 game of revenue strategy this strategy won't change. At this rate we'll probably get a reassuring devblog or two (those don't cost any money), and I bet they're hoping real hard that someone on their little "carte blanche" lag team has an epiphany, but the business fundamentals don't make me optimistic.
I'm afraid that the only thing that will scare the suits into changing strategy is a significant revenue drop-off.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.03 01:17:00 -
[63]
I find it interesting, the great divide between established players and the new players. A very few of the established players seem to come here to post and mostly complain. But go into one of the noob corps or buy another account and go to the 30 day real noob chat and you find something completely different. Mostly there you will find 3 day old players sad over losing their new frigate thet was "really loaded up" with cool stuff (one gun) or simply trying to figure out how to make the tutorials work or find a level 1 agent. Way different sets of priorities...
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:46:00 -
[64]
Originally by: BrundleMeth I find it interesting, the great divide between established players and the new players. A very few of the established players seem to come here to post and mostly complain. But go into one of the noob corps or buy another account and go to the 30 day real noob chat and you find something completely different. Mostly there you will find 3 day old players sad over losing their new frigate thet was "really loaded up" with cool stuff (one gun) or simply trying to figure out how to make the tutorials work or find a level 1 agent. Way different sets of priorities...
Funny, but most of the noob channels I've been in have had people talking about their 0.0 mains and such. Logging on my freighter alt's not actually a bad way to keep track of 0.0 politics, especially if I don't want to read the cesspool of CAOD.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Ryhss
Caldari Ominous Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:00:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again
Wins what?
A puppy.
Originally by: aratillion
LEGEN.... Wait for it DARY!
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:40:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 03/08/2010 14:41:32
Originally by: xavier69 Over all reading that article
I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp
It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations
I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew
1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets
I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein
they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles
The simplest way to explain it
The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units
The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones
Wut?
Edit: wanna give a shout out to the idiots defacing ccp and whining for the hell sake of just whining.
Peace |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:45:00 -
[67]
Incarna - Walking in Stations....
...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there? The only really interesting feature we have been shown is doing some mini-games. And even that was very vague.
CCP is pouring A LOT of effort, manpower and money into Incarna. It better has to be good and not yet another "framework that can be filled with content - later".
We have tons of frameworks which can be filled with content later. But when are they actually getting filled with content? I think that is what lots of players are upset about too. And of course the fact that they pay for games like Dust514 and World of Darkness while there are still so many bugs and big lag to be tackled.
But in the end it is just the way how to sell something. I like the honest way of CCP. At least they say openly what they are going to do and the devs talk a lot with the playerbase. Look at other companies and what BS they produce and just plain lie to get some better attention. Compared to them, CCP is refreshingly clear and honest. And that must not underestimated! |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gnulpie Incarna - Walking in Stations....
...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there? The only really interesting feature we have been shown is doing some mini-games. And even that was very vague.
CCP is pouring A LOT of effort, manpower and money into Incarna. It better has to be good and not yet another "framework that can be filled with content - later".
We have tons of frameworks which can be filled with content later. But when are they actually getting filled with content? I think that is what lots of players are upset about too. And of course the fact that they pay for games like Dust514 and World of Darkness while there are still so many bugs and big lag to be tackled.
But in the end it is just the way how to sell something. I like the honest way of CCP. At least they say openly what they are going to do and the devs talk a lot with the playerbase. Look at other companies and what BS they produce and just plain lie to get some better attention. Compared to them, CCP is refreshingly clear and honest. And that must not underestimated!
CCP already have said they want the full experience of ALL three aspects of the game finished before they polish the game. We have an idea of what they want to do with incarna but till they release it its all unknown. It probably wont be epic at first. Nothing ever is as CCP ALWAYS tends to typically prenerf and dumbdown releases so they can see how we players will bastardize it.
So in essence its a crap shoot to how well we players will respond to any release. Its what they do later that should be epic. That includes these so called lag fixes and other issues that players want fixed/done AND combat in stations that could very well happen in some form. Most cant see that though and just choose to *****. |
Yodabunny
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Gnulpie Incarna - Walking in Stations....
...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there?
Mass Effect 3 will be contained entirely within EVE Online.
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Iana Zypher
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:14:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ryhss
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again
Wins what?
A puppy.
Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ******. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Iana Zypher
Originally by: Ryhss
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again
Wins what?
A puppy.
Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ******. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids.
I guess that makes it playable. This is clearly a signature. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:53:00 -
[72]
Quote: Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ******. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids.
Quote: I guess that makes it playable.
Lmfao |
Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:55:00 -
[73]
CCP, YOU HAVE NO MORE TITAN.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:12:00 -
[74]
I suspect the writer of that article plays 'eve: fleet fight' and is taking advantage of his position to spread the hate about his corner of the game.
Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
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Koba Kyogen
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:39:00 -
[75]
Yep - it's begun.
Anyone else remember/play Sony Online Ents old Star Wars Galaxies?
Same $#!^, different day.
Stick Dust up your @$$ and fix the existing product.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
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Syn Callibri
Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:08:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 03/08/2010 20:08:47
Originally by: Koba Kyogen Yep - it's begun.
Anyone else remember/play Sony Online Ents old Star Wars Galaxies?
Same $#!^, different day.
Stick Dust up your @$$ and fix the existing product.
No but I remember what they did to PotBS along with FLS.
That was one of the reason I came to eVe.
Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
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liquidsteal
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:44:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp Thank heavens for StarCraft II, Thats is the game that actually keeps me in EVE (yes, u read correctly). I am so fed-up with EVE and all its lies and broken promises that if it had not been for SC2 i would leave EVE for another MMORPG with all my accounts this instant. SC2 can keep me busy until EVE is fixed (i hope) or if not i will just quit (SC kept me busy for 5 years).
Gonna stick around for an "expansion" or two more to see if they get back in touch with us players.. if they still are out chazing the "shineys" i will quit for good.
"You must construct aditional pylons"..
Bliizard has officially acknowledged that a StarCraft 2 bug might fry graphics cards.
The official Battle.Net support page explains that "screens that are light on detail may make your system overheat if cooling is overall insufficient. This is because the game has nothing to do so it is primarily just working on drawing the screen very quickly."
The bug is caused by the fact that StarCraft 2 has no frame rate limit. Fortunately, such a limit can be imposed fairly easy by adding the following lines to Documents\StarCraft II\variables.txt file:
frameratecapglue=30 frameratecap=60
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:52:00 -
[78]
I'm waiting to see how well EVE does this time round in the best game votes.
If it doesn't do as well as it did before with a bigger playerbase than its ever had that will be food for thought.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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nu artiste
Gallente Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.03 23:28:00 -
[79]
Massive is ought to be spanked.
They put EMO/nerd/quit crowd into the power of Universal Rebellion.
They are not getting money off it. I guess they are just trolling
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Jhagiti Tyran
Invicta.
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Posted - 2010.08.04 01:37:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again
Nobodies winning here I guess most of the angry players would never wish any kind of harm on CCP due to bad publicity damaging EVEs reputation and putting off potential players in the future, we all know that EVE needs to maintain its position as one of the few (only?) MMOs that has a constantly growing playerbase and growth means more income which should mean more development which is good for all players whether you mine all day or live in nullsec.
If the publicity is bad enough for long enough it could be bad for us all but the ball is now in CCPs court and its up to them to address player concerns and until then this negative spotlight isn't going to go away.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.08.04 03:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Zeba I suspect the writer of that article plays 'eve: fleet fight' and is taking advantage of his position to spread the hate about his corner of the game.
Nope, I'm in a little wormhole corp. Before that, I was in faction warfare (gallente side) from day 1 of FW until Apocrypha came out. It's interesting to see the responses this article has gotten. Some people have used it to suggest I'm supporting the angry player camp. Conversely, others have used it to suggest I'm supporting CCP's position. In truth, it's an opinion piece and represents my own opinion, which is somewhere in between.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.08.04 03:32:00 -
[82]
What is even more funny is that CCP is trying to hide this.... Instead of just working on the golden goose some more.
Originally by: wr3cks
I agree with this guy on the other side of Vale.
One thing I'd add, though, is that it's all about the money.
CCP is trying to ramp up to three games from one. As far as I know, they have not taken any recent outside investment (Wikipedia says that it's still majority-owned by the founders, and that they sold a minority stake for 2.6 mil in 2000 which I'm sure still smarts since that's now two weeks of revenue). They're mostly financing WoD and DUST with internal cash flow. This strategy, therefore, basically involves:
1) Cutting development expenditures on EVE to a bare minimum. Specifically, use as few of your $90k to $120k+ senior coders as possible, and lots of your $35k to $60k "content producers" and QA guys to add bolt-on fluff, like new agents or missions or whatever. Once non-technical people have tools to build ingame stuff, it's pretty easy and cheap to have them do so.
2) Maximize the overlap between EVE and your other games. Incarna is the biggest example of this -- devs working on Incarna for EVE are also, really, working on WoD and (possibly) DUST. It also wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if their new server farm was also rolled out to be able to also host those other games (since hardware was never the reason for server-side lag; it's the code).
Obviously, once people give their money to CCP, it belongs to CCP and if they want to spend it on hookers and blow, good on them.
But it's also pretty stupid to think that you can go from developing 1 game with your $50m/y in revenue to developing 3 games with the same revenue and that the first game won't deteriorate.
I think players are interested in Incarna but they're not interested in it for the same reasons CCP is. CCP wants to develop WoD and expense part/most of it to the EVE playerbase, so to speak. This is a lot of resources we're talking. The playerbase, through the CSM, has made it clear that there are literally hundreds of things that they'd rather have fixed up with those resources.
But, honestly, unless the suits decide that they're risking killing the goose that lays the golden eggs with their 3 games of development from 1 game of revenue strategy this strategy won't change. At this rate we'll probably get a reassuring devblog or two (those don't cost any money), and I bet they're hoping real hard that someone on their little "carte blanche" lag team has an epiphany, but the business fundamentals don't make me optimistic.
I'm afraid that the only thing that will scare the suits into changing strategy is a significant revenue drop-off.
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Lord Xantoh
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:38:00 -
[83]
Those unhapppy with the current state of the game should stop posting and convert their disappointment into action: Cancel at least your additional accounts and keep the main one.
That should send a strong signal to CCP while you can still play with your main...
Sadly enough, forum posts won't have any influence on CCP's decisionmaking. Money, however, talks.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:51:00 -
[84]
I find it interesting that the online magazines appear totally content with the "oh, fixing lag is our no. 1 priority now" and not went on to look at the devblogs which basically said what CCP is saying now "fixing lag has highest priority", "promised" results 6 months ago and failed to deliver anything.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:54:00 -
[85]
Too link; didn't read.
In other news, I hear that all publicity is good publicity. c/c?
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.08.04 07:03:00 -
[86]
I called it :D
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1353596
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.08.04 12:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Aerilis I called it :D
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1353596
Whips out the "i called it" cookie |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:28:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. Feel free to whine and ***** but do it ON YOUR BEHALF, not "90% of the population" .
Please speak for yourself when asking others to speak for themselves.
Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. I am not speaking for anyone else when I say that. I am not really even speaking "for myself" when I say that. I am merely pointing out a demonstrable fact. Some of the members of the Eve community are quite happy and content with the direction of the game. We know this is a fact because some of those people have posted that opinion in this thread (as well as posting in the countless other "Eve is dying" threads).
So what's the actual objection? Do you not understand that "some" is accurate and justified but "90%" is a bogus statistic that was just pulled out of thin air to make the argument sound significant? Or is it that you don't see why arguing based on facts is different than just making **** up to justify or "support" however you happen to feel? Or is it just that you reflexively want to slag those who disagree with you but your debate skills peaked at the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I level?
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Daniel Cordova
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: xavier69 Over all reading that article
I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp
It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations
I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew
1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets
I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein
they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles
The simplest way to explain it
The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units
The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones
Where did you pull that number from?
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.04 16:15:00 -
[90]
It looks like I was more correct than I realized.
CCP, any comment on the sudden need for your investors to start milking the company for money?
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