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Bad publicity. It has begun.

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Iazma Moroi Uchal	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:06:00 - [1] In this opinion piece over at Massively EVE Evolved: Dissent in the EVE community Brendan Drain has something to say.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:20:00 - [2] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 02/08/2010 06:21:19 The plot. It thickens. Quote: Considering that we don't normally receive requests like this, I think it's safe to say there has been an organised effort to convince news outlets to pick up this story. Perhaps players, exasperated by CCP's apparent dismissal of CSM requests, felt that putting some media pressure on the company was the only way to remind the decision-makers who pays the bills. Ankh strikes back? I agree with everything Barakkus posts.
Sombike Caldari Enterprise Estonia Session Changes	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:36:00 - [3] Even bad publicity is better then no publicity at all :P Good that the news are broadcasting the story though :) I have never had a signature before, is it any good?
DarthJosh DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:50:00 - [4] Quote: However, I believe the current outrage is mostly a symptom of the clear communication rift that's opened up between CCP and the EVE playerbase. Having spoken with both CCP and the CSM, I get the impression that CCP has failed to provide players with adequate context for the information delivered to players. it's brilliant publicity, it hit THE spot. - Desusigs!
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:50:00 - [5] And the vocal minority wins again
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.08.02 06:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Wins what?
Poo Ka'hontas Red Eye Industrial	Posted - 2010.08.02 07:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Well... The un-vocal majority can go kiss themselves in the ass then And... wins what? a broken game? Originally by: CCP Fallout No. CCP Shadow should behave the same way forums do during downtime. Up, but maybe a little slow.
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2010.08.02 07:11:00 - [8] Over all reading that article I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew 1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles The simplest way to explain it The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.02 07:16:00 - [9] Like I said, the next expansion MUST be kick-ass to counter the bad publicity. And NO, bad publicity is not better than no publicity at all. This will turn off any prospective players.
Morphisat Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.08.02 07:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Sometimes that minority turns out not be a minority at all !
Abulurd Boniface Gallente 0ccam's Razor Industries	Posted - 2010.08.02 08:06:00 - [11] In this controversial opinion piece, I dig into the controversy surrounding CCP's recent communication with EVE Online's playerbase and the reactions forum-going players have had. He thinks his own opinion piece is controversial. Somebody needs to get his head out of the cloud. For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.02 08:06:00 - [12] bad publicity has been around for ages that article is so full of fail.. and stuff that as been refuted from ccp ... --
Mica Petrokov GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.08.02 08:25:00 - [13] Originally by: RaTTuS bad publicity has been around for ages that article is so full of fail.. and stuff that as been refuted from ccp ... Just because CCP "refutes" something doesn't mean they're telling the truth. They've been known to lie their asses off many times before. "The logs show nothing."
Han Soro Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.02 08:37:00 - [14] As with any business - if the 'customers' aren't happy with the product, then the customers will eventually walk away. I say CCP have got some time to sort out the 'customers' complaints, if not it will be bye bye CCP. This is nothing against CCP, it is just what always happens to companies that don't listen!
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.08.02 08:43:00 - [15] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 02/08/2010 08:46:25 /rage over Self moderated. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
thatbloke Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.02 10:34:00 - [16] Incarna is very likely going to be cool. The problem here is that alongside developing/finishing Incarna, there are a ton of problems that have been introduced into the game in the past 2 years that have received little/no attention whatsoever (at least as the players see it), and such fixes/investigations are still being pushed aside in anticipation of the new stuff. There has been very little room in CCP's schedule for working on such issues and I think they need to realise that sometimes deadlines have to be pushed aside to make sure that what already exists is working as it should. I'd rather that Incarna was delayed and these other game/balance issues were fixed/looked at WAY MORE VISIBLY first. ----- The funny thing about this sentence is that by the time you've finished reading it, it's too late for you to realise it doesn't say anything.
Hegbard	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:05:00 - [17] Originally by: thatbloke Incarna is very likely going to be cool. The most amusing thing about this all is that people still fall for the propaganda that Incarna could be cool or a good feature. There's nothing in the history of CCP that shows that they have the ability to finish any feature. That includes Incarna. It will be as unfinished as anything else they have ever released and it will be abandoned just after release when they go chasing the next shiny object.
Shar Totanka	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again I wouldn't say that. CCP hasn't even bothered responding after all. But I'm sure the 3D chat client is going to be the most awesome gameplay edition ever! Think of all the money you can save when you don't have to log into Second-life to cyber furries because you can do it in eve-online instead!
TheMahdi	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:26:00 - [19] Meh, I like the changes, few things that I would of personally improved upon instead but overall it's a nice direction. Sov warfare is boring as ever. No change there. Lag has increased the number of small gang engagements, I like smaller engagements. PI has given my research/production alt everything it needs for vertical integration, not so clicky if you know what you want and don't over do it. Infrastructure upgrades has given my main char a much more reliable source of income in 0.0 as well as created a nice clustering of players in systems. Those systems are always fun! The only downside? I really liked the benefits of REAL exploration, please improve the quality, quantity and rewards of sites found through actual exploration. Oh and the ****ing Directional Scanner, the main reason I stopped living solo in a class 3. I love no local but I was getting RSI from D-scan, add auto-clicker please!
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:33:00 - [20] Also couldn't have picked a worse time to have all this community unrest, with some serious competition gearing up. Hope CCP knows what they're doing, because if it were to be released today, the way things are here now, you'd see a mass exodus. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Illwill Bill Fjortismaffian HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:35:00 - [21] Incarna might actually become awesome. I, for one, look forward to opening a strip joint in Amamake. However, there is no doubt that there are severe problems in EVE at the moment. The lag is unbearable, and people have experienced module lag in 30 vs. 30 man fights. There are a number of features that are dying for some well-needed love, and to be honest, I would rather see this fixed, than Incarna. Incarna, on the other hand, is supposed to be the thing that puts EVE on the MMO world map once and for all. It is expected to attract a lot of players who where previously uninterested in continuing past the 14-day trial. Meanwhile, there is Dust, a project which is supposed to bring the console crowd into the EVE universe. From a business perspective, I can understand most of the descicions here; new revenue is good, even though it is driven by greed. Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save CCP, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the Republic of Iceland. Now, what we have is an EVE with no new content. Or? Well, Dust will bring new content to PI, and Incarna will most definitely be tied to EVE in some way. Good, we have new content! This somewhat negates the need for other new content, so why creating even more? If I could get an expansion with Incarna, as well as the PI changes that Dust will bring, then I would happily proclaim that to be the best expansion EVAR, assuming that remaining resources are focused on fixing bugs, reducing lag , and perhaps some minor rebalancing.
UVPhoenix2 Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:39:00 - [22] A directional scanner which you must click every two seconds is just as good as one you don't have to click at all. I know how you feel. Material of this nature affect us all in different ways. What you need to do is learn from this. And this is just my sig.
Typhado3 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:41:00 - [23] Originally by: xavier69 I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew I think your good at making up bull**** numbers Stop crying cause you aren't getting all the attention and HTFU ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker
Princess Nimotehp Red Eye Brigade	Posted - 2010.08.02 11:52:00 - [24] Thank heavens for StarCraft II, Thats is the game that actually keeps me in EVE (yes, u read correctly). I am so fed-up with EVE and all its lies and broken promises that if it had not been for SC2 i would leave EVE for another MMORPG with all my accounts this instant. SC2 can keep me busy until EVE is fixed (i hope) or if not i will just quit (SC kept me busy for 5 years). Gonna stick around for an "expansion" or two more to see if they get back in touch with us players.. if they still are out chazing the "shineys" i will quit for good. "You must construct aditional pylons"..
Virtuozzo Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:09:00 - [25] Edited by: Virtuozzo on 02/08/2010 12:16:36 Originally by: Han Soro As with any business - if the 'customers' aren't happy with the product, then the customers will eventually walk away. If this were a can of soup, you'd be right. In the case of EVE however, it is safe to say that it is not a can of soup :P It's the difference between a commodity product and an immersive product, CCP isn't selling us a one/few time use/consumption product, they're selling us a virtual life (well, job) which goes on regardless of issues and hickups that are not too dissimilar from experiences in real life. It is one of the major strengths of EVE that this combined with the sandbox concept and the diversity of niches within the immersion deliveres people a potential to make an emotional connection with their "virtual life / job" to a point where they stick with it, and go to great lengths in that experience for tolerating things like traffic jams, bad food, communication breakdowns and whatnot. In a way it is funny, but the statements made by CCP which caused so much surprise (the metrics and quality references) are not wrong. But they are statements made from a perspective of treating EVE as a commodity product. Which is obviously not the case, even if only because of how the perception of the product defines the reality of the immersion within the product. Something which on its own accord really puts the finger on the wound of the trend of the past few years in CCP's marketing which is chasing ever harder after subscribers instead of building upon the core concepts which created a far more sustainable growth pattern - in spite of periodic and in some cases even structural immersion issues. Sure, people do leave, but unlike other games or products many of them leave for a while. Even the most bitter vets always keep an eye on EVE. And yes, lots of people who are attracted by the marketing don't stick around, but whether that is because of the state of EVE or because their state of mind annex gameplay desires are averse to or incompatible with EVE is an entirely different factor :P Tbh it is far more interesting to track community patterns, and there are a LOT of communities to track for this, and even more media to follow then ever before, where it comes to attemps in quantifying dissatisfaction or structural frustration. These forums for example have over the years become a lot quieter then other community forums in these regards. It will be a long time before it could get to a breaking point, but yes I agree that at the horizon that potential is definately visible. After all CCP have a history of going overboard in full singular focus on a detail level, and losing the big picture in that process. Considering the amount of resources and focus required for Incarna, and even more so for Dust 514 which is to be a standalone product (and depending on which CCP architect you listen to even its own MMO) there is a definite potential for them to continue making the mistakes visible in Tyrannis. But .. not as a symptom on the side, but as a structural process element. Add to that how the CSM Minutes and CCP's own communications in follow up have demonstrated (on top of previous historic examples) how inapt their communication and value assignment processes are at several specific levels within the organisation, yeah, it is going to be a big challenge. Either way, does it all mean that what CCP are doing is wrong or commercial not feasible? No. It is just following a different model, it will bring in money and subscribers, but yes the sandbox is changing and they're aiming to get in a lot of kids who don't play with the toys the current kids are used to play with. Is that wrong? Maybe, because those new kids come from very different angles and will require changing the core concepts of the immersion in order to retain them. And as we know CCP deliveries, that will affect existing game niches. Worse, they are set to attract subscribers who do walk away if they aren't happy. ≡v≡ once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business. Now all that's left, serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna.
Miilla	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:12:00 - [26] Star Wars The Old Republic I wonder how many players they will take from Eve? A lot seem quite interested in it. Sure its 2011 release but 2011 is fast approaching :) 2011 is going to have a lot more competitor offerings out there. CCP really should listen, and no, the CSM is not working.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:17:00 - [27] The pain is that my accounts are paid for until december. As for incarna its cool for me but i would gladly show CCP where they can put their dust . I dont own a console and i dont intend to so i dont care at all about that , its waste of resources , this with combination of unwilligness to fix EVE = cancelled subscribtions.
Foundation Vox	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:18:00 - [28] Passes out a tin foil hat for most people in this thread
Atticus Fynch Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:23:00 - [29] The BIG question is: What is CCP going to do about this bad publicity? And Is it going to get worse? ___________________________ EVE Evolved: Dissent in the EVE community
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:24:00 - [30] Originally by: xavier69 Over all reading that article I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew 1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles The simplest way to explain it The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones Could you please stop making statistics up? Could you please stop speaking for the rest of us? Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. Feel free to whine and ***** but do it ON YOUR BEHALF, not "90% of the population" . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Virtuozzo Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Atticus Fynch The BIG question is: What is CCP going to do about this bad publicity? And Is it going to get worse? It is not by any means certain that it is bad publicity. If there is soap involved, it tends to be good for EVE. Don't ask me why, but soap being thrown on a floor in EVE seems to attract a lot of people (yes, bad mental images now). But ... this stream of publicity has drama yes, but no soap (or let's put it this way, the soap is not among the subscribers - unlike past historic events). That being said, the current publicity is more something of a challenge then anything else really. A challenge to CCP to pick up on, or ... not, as for example seen recently in a notification by CCP to GVD where the message was without context and to a high degree in conflict with other context resulting in it being written off as "lolmarketing" (to mirror the "lolcustomers" sentiment of old. With corresponding and self explanatory results of making the situation worse. It's not too dissimilar such reactions to these events as patterns among game niches themselves. Where EVE has always had and will always have "lag" issues (it IS just like the eternal race between the armour and the bullet) but where this perception affect merely one or two game niches, nowadays the sentiment of consequences has spread over a wider variety of game niches. Even those which were guaranteed to be iterated upon at the time, in order to build upon it for the immersion and the experience. Sure people stick with it, because they want to believe and it is still perfectly possible for people to have their comfort zones, but this is an awareness process which grows across niches nonetheless - similar to how EVE itself grew originally. To keep it simple, they can take it as a challenge of marketing and managing expectation management (look it up, it's a very worrying syndrome in enterprise development signalling severe bottlenecks on communication and segregation), or as a challenge to open eyes & ears and get to work with looking at both the road and the horizon. ≡v≡ once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business. Now all that's left, serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna.
dtyk	Posted - 2010.08.02 12:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Some times the minority is right.
END GRAVE Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.08.02 13:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Iazma Moroi In this opinion piece over at Massively EVE Evolved: Dissent in the EVE community Brendan Drain has something to say. Ever here the term "any publicity is good publicity."? This is the perfect example, its free advertising for the game, its like when you see the stories about the mega heists that happen from time to time, and the greifing that happens in the game, its because its so unique, while yes things are broken and neglected in eve, you havent stopped playing, you havent ended your subscription, so give CCP a break, this game is and has always been something of a work in progress.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2010.08.02 13:56:00 - [34] I, sadly, must agree I don't know where the DEVs got the idea that MOST EVE players want WIS... BS. Im not feeling EVE lately, too many partial features ATM.
John Holt Caldari Celtic Dragon's	Posted - 2010.08.02 14:11:00 - [35] Except for the lag, I'm pleased with where EVE is. There are bugs, yes, but CCP will get to them after Incarna.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.08.02 14:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Atticus Fynch The BIG question is: What is CCP going to do about this bad publicity? Likely nothing. at all... Quote: And Is it going to get worse? Probably. But I doub't that will change anything...
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2010.08.02 14:26:00 - [37] Originally by: John Holt Except for the lag, I'm pleased with where EVE is. There are bugs, yes, but CCP will get to them after Incarna. Highly unlikely - they will leave them to the entity that acquires CCP. It will be quite a bit of time for those fixes as the acquirer will first have to fire all the dead weight and bring back the programmers that CCP alienated over the years.
Galan Amarias Amarr Kantian Principle	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:11:00 - [38] All the eve is broken threads remind me of the don't kill nano threads. I didn't agree with those either. -Galan
Nuadi	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:18:00 - [39] Originally by: Lord XSiV the entity that acquires CCP. Do you have a source for that?
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:37:00 - [40] Quote: There's nothing in the history of CCP that shows that they have the ability to finish any feature. When they write opinion pieces for outside sources do they consider the source, such as the obviously incorrect above quote? This is clearly a signature.
Daisuke Aoki Gallente Independent Coalition OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again I doubt it's a minority of people that's upset, and even if it is, then it's the silent majority's fault for remaining silent.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Daisuke Aoki Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again I doubt it's a minority of people that's upset, and even if it is, then it's the silent majority's fault for remaining silent. Rediculous. More crapping just means they push their fingers deeper in their ears...
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:47:00 - [43] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. Feel free to whine and ***** but do it ON YOUR BEHALF, not "90% of the population" . Please speak for yourself when asking others to speak for themselves. Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist
Apollo Gabriel Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:58:00 - [44] The forum player base has clearly stated they want Ambulation/WiS/Incarna since 2006. The "I don't want Incarna" is a new sentiment. I am going to be bold and try to summarize the sentiment as "I don't want Incarna if it means I can't fight for 18 months" Please try to keep your complaints focused. The "vocal minority" used to say it will never happen, etc. State what you want people, and if you REALLY don't want Incarna at all, please be clear as to why. Best, Apollo TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times. Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals.
Jordan Musgrat H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:50:00 - [45] You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ****ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ****s. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...
Syn Callibri Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:55:00 - [46] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 02/08/2010 17:56:12 Originally by: Jordan Musgrat You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ****ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ****s. Point of order...a lot of the "tards" your whining about went to the industry instead of the forums, or haven't you figured that out yet? Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
Marcus Vorenius Caldari Citadel Enterprise	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:01:00 - [47] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Massively Article I disagree with the article /snip agree - it is too 'wordy' and the conclusion is ... well, somewhere between 1) not supporting the long winded text or 2) non exsistent sitting on the fence will get you impaled if you sit there long enough .... wussie ______ Blog: "Lessons Learned from New Eden" - why you should add EVE to your CV/resume
Florio Miniature Giant Space Hamsters	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:09:00 - [48] Heard of the 7-year itch? It's not just marriages then :)
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Syn Callibri Point of order...players went to the industry too, or haven't you figured that out yet? While what you say is true, you also can't say that it's a strict "empire vs 0.0" divide. Almost everyone in 0.0 is upset, and lots of people living in lowsec are too. And then to boot, many of us have more than one highsec alt to support our 'mains'. I'd be surprised if the empire representation of a lowsec/0.0 alliance isn't at least as big as the alliance itself. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Syn Callibri Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:23:00 - [50] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 02/08/2010 18:24:16 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Syn Callibri Point of order...players went to the industry too, or haven't you figured that out yet? While what you say is true, you also can't say that it's a strict "empire vs 0.0" divide. Almost everyone in 0.0 is upset, and lots of people living in lowsec are too. And then to boot, many of us have more than one highsec alt to support our 'mains'. I'd be surprised if the empire representation of a lowsec/0.0 alliance isn't at least as big as the alliance itself. -Liang ^ ^ ^ ^ This...Hi-Sec...Lo-Sec...Null-Sec...we're all FRAKED in the end. Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
Amanda Mor Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:54:00 - [51] Originally by: Jordan Musgrat You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ****ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you **s. I'm gonna have fun with made up numbers too!! Ex. 1: for every 1 person who ***es on the forums, there are 100 people who think the game is fine, and realize that responding to "eve sucks" threads is pointless Ex. 2: I'd say for every 25k people in the world, there's always at least 1,000 of them that are upset about something, and thinks the whole world should listen. At least 500 of them will believe they speak for the whole community. Ex. 3: 75% of statistics are made up, but only 35% of people realize it. ---------------------------------------------- I don't have an alt, but there's a main that would be upset if he heard me say that...
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Jordan Musgrat You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ****ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ****s. Because all stats made up on the internet are automatically true. This is clearly a signature.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:40:00 - [53] The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list. Continue on with our message -----------------------------------
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:42:00 - [54] Strong sense of entitlement, no change there then. And no one speaks for me so if anyone says 'the players' blah blah' then count me out or you're being dishonest. I can see CCP closing ranks on this and not bothering to communicate any more, as all other game companies I know have already done. It takes too much effort for a lot of flack.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:48:00 - [55] Originally by: Saehta The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list. Continue on with our message That's complete rubbish. You think CCP are sitting on their hands doing nothing, seriously? You seriously think throwing more developers at a problem will magically fix it? You seriously think all developers have the same skill sets and can actually contribute without getting in the way? All this will do is make CCP realise a proportion of their player base with no technical knowledge are given far too much space to make their wild claims with no sense of responsibility , moderation or care about facts. Saying something repeatedly does not make it true.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:57:00 - [56] I don't need to list my credentials to you or my research, neither is this the topic for it. You are correct though. Saying something repeatedly does not make it true and the same goes to putting words in my mouth through your repetitious and sarcastic questions. -----------------------------------
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.08.02 20:13:00 - [57] If CCP announced that in the next expansion they would fix all or give serious attention to issues plaguing the community...But you would have to pay for the expansion... I would I would also pay to not release Incarna until current game play issues are fixed. Fix what's broken then release new stuff
Dr Reinhold	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:31:00 - [58] Given the nature of EvE as a cut-throat economic combat sim, I find it a bit amusing how many people expect CCP to forego expanding their player base in favor of concentrating solely on the parts of EvE that they personally enjoy the most. Not everybody in the universe is you and likes what you like. And chances are, those who are as yet unrealized potential customers will want something very different from what you currently have. Otherwise they would be here already. On the other hand I don't want to see them throw a good thing away in the existing player base. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush after all. I want to see them fix the lag as the absolute first priority. That much better not be a bunch of smoke and mirrors, but as someone pointed out earlier lag and performance issues are not solved by throwing more and more people at a problem. Performance issues tend to exist at deeper levels of the system architecture and tend to have a spider web of interdependencies. This means you don't put lots of average people on the problem. You put your absolute best guys with a wide range of competence together in a single team and you give them what every they demand. What ever testing, system and coding resources they need. If they need someone's time, they get it. If they demand hookers and pizza they ge... well, almost everything. Probably that too. CCP giving a single team carte blanche sounds like they are doing the right thing so long as that team answers directly to an executive high enough up the ladder to make the things that need to happen actually happen. We will see, but I think CCP will come though on this. Lag and performance along with old-timers taking off is the kind of thing that scares away new customers and what they want the most is not just new customers but more customers overall. So complaining about Incarna and Dust is not going to make them go away but they may not be the bad news carebear assault that you think they are. I have a theory that CCP is well aware that if they take too much of the hardcore edge of the PvP game away they will loose their oldtimers and oldtimers cannot be easily replaced. People stick with MMOs, even ones with serious problems for a long time because they have years invested in a character. They keep coming back because of that investment. If you loose someone forever the nub that replaced him might or might not stick around, and who will teach the nub to love the game. CCP understands this. So how do you carve out a carebear corner of the universe for new people without dumbing down the whole game? (coughWoWcough) Imagine if they instead created a separate game based on EvE that was all about traveling from safe spacestation to safe planetary starbase, running missions for people, delivering small items or messages, setting up stores and bars and factories and repair shops all in a walk around set of almost endless environments. Now imagine connecting this game to a first person shooter that let you get some good combat fix by shooting alien critters or going to combat zones that allowed you to fight people from, I don't know, say other empire factions? Now that is certainly not EvE. Way too safe. But it would be a very fun space game for a lot of people. But put that game into the pre existing EvE universe and suddenly you have a way to bring in new players using a PvE only environment. Not only that but you have a place for EvE carebears to retreat to when they feel like it. And for some, they will explore this PvE, probably empire limited universe and then discover the life of a capsuleer and possibly never turn back. I really doubt Incarna is going to be a glorified set of station isolated chat rooms. That could have been done long ago. Given how many people have on it and how long it has and will take, it will be a good bit bigger, it will be almost a parallel game. And hopefully it will be way to grow the game without dumbing our part down.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:48:00 - [59] The massivly article got one thing right. It is a miscommunication issue between CCP and the CSM. See, the CSM thinks that it exists to provide CCP information on what players want fixed so that CCP can fix it. In actuality, the CSM exists to make player FEEL like they are being listened to, so that CCP doesn't have to actually fix the things players complain about. As much as they stomp their feet and complain to the video game mews outlets, the existing players are not really going to emo-rage quit. Therefore, CCP is free to ignore their rants while they milk them for the money needed to develop new content to bring in more customers. Thing is, virtually every software company works this way. The product I work on, we get issue reports from customers, and if it more than a couple minutes to fix and doesn't overlap with other stuff e're working on, we assign it to PM for prioritization. We do this knowing that PM will do NOTHING with it for a good 6 months when it will eventually be closed with some BS excuse about "not a priority". We actually call this, asigning it to PM's "circle file" or sending it to the balck hole (from which nothing ever escapes). Usually about 90% are closed and forgotten. But, there are some that the customers have not yet accepted their fait and they'll demand the issue be reopened... So we reopen it and let it sit another 6 months before closing it again... repeat. The only way customer issues every really get fixed is if they threaten a law suit or they cancel their support agreement.... at which time sales will elevate the issue to a code red, we stop working on new features, and fix their issue. I think we did 6 of these so far this year..... .... short of actual revenue being attached to the issue, we mostly work on new features. We have the existing customers' money, so there is no RoI making them happier. The RoI comes from new customers, and that means new products and new features.
Xiang Jiao	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Illwill Bill From a business perspective, I can understand most of the descicions here; new revenue is good, even though it is driven by greed. Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save CCP, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the Republic of Iceland. Who could have predicted Iceland would be saved by the same sin that almost bankrupted it two years ago? I can taste the irony. I don't think that, at the core, the business of CCP is greed. They want to put out a great game that players will enjoy, but there is some disagreement about which parts of the game are actually being enjoyed. The business is way out of touch with the customer, especially if by their metrics there is nothing wrong with game latency. I got session change/grid load bugs on a 12 man Black Ops roam last week in Fountain. Not super terrible lag, but enough to cause concern and allow a Pilgrim to get taken down with ease on an un-bubbled gate camp. I ended up in the middle of nowhere after a covert cyno. Until people start canceling subs and not buying/re-selling PLEX, the business will continue to think we are content with the game. I resubbed all my accounts for a year right around the Dominion release so I am stuck trying to find enjoyment in the game play for another four months. I may just pick up a new game and skill train until the subscriptions run out.
Skunk Gracklaw	Posted - 2010.08.03 00:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Incarna Hate?!? The forum player base has clearly stated they want Ambulation/WiS/Incarna since 2006. The "I don't want Incarna" is a new sentiment. I am going to be bold and try to summarize the sentiment as "I don't want Incarna if it means I can't fight for 18 months" Please try to keep your complaints focused. The "vocal minority" used to say it will never happen, etc. State what you want people, and if you REALLY don't want Incarna at all, please be clear as to why. I've been kind of meh about Incarna not really caring one way or the other until I saw just how many resources they are putting into it. In my opinion CCP hasn't explained what Incarna will bring to the game that justifies that many developers working on it. I've seen the ambulation videos but I haven't heard anything about how walking in stations will improve Eve gameplay as a whole. I have a sneaking suspicion that CCP is thinking that the mere fact you can exit your ship and walk around in stations is going to attract millions of players who, for whatever reason, have given Eve a pass. It's not going to happen. CCP should ask SOE what happens when you abandon your current playerbase in an attempt to bring in a new population of new players (NGE anyone?). If there is anything to Incarna other than being able to wander around stations then CCP should describe it now and explain why it's better than holding off on it and spending some time fixing what's broken in the current game.
wr3cks Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.03 00:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Saehta The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list. Continue on with our message I agree with this guy on the other side of Vale. One thing I'd add, though, is that it's all about the money. CCP is trying to ramp up to three games from one. As far as I know, they have not taken any recent outside investment (Wikipedia says that it's still majority-owned by the founders, and that they sold a minority stake for 2.6 mil in 2000 which I'm sure still smarts since that's now two weeks of revenue). They're mostly financing WoD and DUST with internal cash flow. This strategy, therefore, basically involves: 1) Cutting development expenditures on EVE to a bare minimum. Specifically, use as few of your $90k to $120k+ senior coders as possible, and lots of your $35k to $60k "content producers" and QA guys to add bolt-on fluff, like new agents or missions or whatever. Once non-technical people have tools to build ingame stuff, it's pretty easy and cheap to have them do so. 2) Maximize the overlap between EVE and your other games. Incarna is the biggest example of this -- devs working on Incarna for EVE are also, really, working on WoD and (possibly) DUST. It also wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if their new server farm was also rolled out to be able to also host those other games (since hardware was never the reason for server-side lag; it's the code). Obviously, once people give their money to CCP, it belongs to CCP and if they want to spend it on hookers and blow, good on them. But it's also pretty stupid to think that you can go from developing 1 game with your $50m/y in revenue to developing 3 games with the same revenue and that the first game won't deteriorate. I think players are interested in Incarna but they're not interested in it for the same reasons CCP is. CCP wants to develop WoD and expense part/most of it to the EVE playerbase, so to speak. This is a lot of resources we're talking. The playerbase, through the CSM, has made it clear that there are literally hundreds of things that they'd rather have fixed up with those resources. But, honestly, unless the suits decide that they're risking killing the goose that lays the golden eggs with their 3 games of development from 1 game of revenue strategy this strategy won't change. At this rate we'll probably get a reassuring devblog or two (those don't cost any money), and I bet they're hoping real hard that someone on their little "carte blanche" lag team has an epiphany, but the business fundamentals don't make me optimistic. I'm afraid that the only thing that will scare the suits into changing strategy is a significant revenue drop-off.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.08.03 01:17:00 - [63] I find it interesting, the great divide between established players and the new players. A very few of the established players seem to come here to post and mostly complain. But go into one of the noob corps or buy another account and go to the 30 day real noob chat and you find something completely different. Mostly there you will find 3 day old players sad over losing their new frigate thet was "really loaded up" with cool stuff (one gun) or simply trying to figure out how to make the tutorials work or find a level 1 agent. Way different sets of priorities...
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.03 13:46:00 - [64] Originally by: BrundleMeth I find it interesting, the great divide between established players and the new players. A very few of the established players seem to come here to post and mostly complain. But go into one of the noob corps or buy another account and go to the 30 day real noob chat and you find something completely different. Mostly there you will find 3 day old players sad over losing their new frigate thet was "really loaded up" with cool stuff (one gun) or simply trying to figure out how to make the tutorials work or find a level 1 agent. Way different sets of priorities... Funny, but most of the noob channels I've been in have had people talking about their 0.0 mains and such. Logging on my freighter alt's not actually a bad way to keep track of 0.0 politics, especially if I don't want to read the cesspool of CAOD. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Ryhss Caldari Ominous Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.03 14:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Wins what? A puppy. Originally by: aratillion LEGEN.... Wait for it DARY!
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.03 14:40:00 - [66] Edited by: Jovialmadness on 03/08/2010 14:41:32 Originally by: xavier69 Over all reading that article I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew 1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles The simplest way to explain it The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones Wut? Edit: wanna give a shout out to the idiots defacing ccp and whining for the hell sake of just whining. Peace
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.08.03 15:45:00 - [67] Incarna - Walking in Stations.... ...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there? The only really interesting feature we have been shown is doing some mini-games. And even that was very vague. CCP is pouring A LOT of effort, manpower and money into Incarna. It better has to be good and not yet another "framework that can be filled with content - later". We have tons of frameworks which can be filled with content later. But when are they actually getting filled with content? I think that is what lots of players are upset about too. And of course the fact that they pay for games like Dust514 and World of Darkness while there are still so many bugs and big lag to be tackled. But in the end it is just the way how to sell something. I like the honest way of CCP. At least they say openly what they are going to do and the devs talk a lot with the playerbase. Look at other companies and what BS they produce and just plain lie to get some better attention. Compared to them, CCP is refreshingly clear and honest. And that must not underestimated!
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.03 15:53:00 - [68] Originally by: Gnulpie Incarna - Walking in Stations.... ...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there? The only really interesting feature we have been shown is doing some mini-games. And even that was very vague. CCP is pouring A LOT of effort, manpower and money into Incarna. It better has to be good and not yet another "framework that can be filled with content - later". We have tons of frameworks which can be filled with content later. But when are they actually getting filled with content? I think that is what lots of players are upset about too. And of course the fact that they pay for games like Dust514 and World of Darkness while there are still so many bugs and big lag to be tackled. But in the end it is just the way how to sell something. I like the honest way of CCP. At least they say openly what they are going to do and the devs talk a lot with the playerbase. Look at other companies and what BS they produce and just plain lie to get some better attention. Compared to them, CCP is refreshingly clear and honest. And that must not underestimated! CCP already have said they want the full experience of ALL three aspects of the game finished before they polish the game. We have an idea of what they want to do with incarna but till they release it its all unknown. It probably wont be epic at first. Nothing ever is as CCP ALWAYS tends to typically prenerf and dumbdown releases so they can see how we players will bastardize it. So in essence its a crap shoot to how well we players will respond to any release. Its what they do later that should be epic. That includes these so called lag fixes and other issues that players want fixed/done AND combat in stations that could very well happen in some form. Most cant see that though and just choose to *****.
Yodabunny Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.03 15:55:00 - [69] Originally by: Gnulpie Incarna - Walking in Stations.... ...all fine and good. But what actually could you DO there? Mass Effect 3 will be contained entirely within EVE Online.
Iana Zypher	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:14:00 - [70] Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Wins what? A puppy. Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ******. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Iana Zypher Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Wins what? A puppy. Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ******. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids. I guess that makes it playable. This is clearly a signature.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:53:00 - [72] Quote: Fanboi ftw. Get a clue, ****. The game is unplayable atm, but you prolly don't notice it coz you are in Empire, sucking roids. Quote:** I guess that makes it playable. Lmfao
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:55:00 - [73] CCP, YOU HAVE NO MORE TITAN.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.03 19:12:00 - [74] I suspect the writer of that article plays 'eve: fleet fight' and is taking advantage of his position to spread the hate about his corner of the game. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Koba Kyogen Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.08.03 19:39:00 - [75] Yep - it's begun. Anyone else remember/play Sony Online Ents old Star Wars Galaxies? Same $#!^, different day. Stick Dust up your @$$ and fix the existing product. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Syn Callibri Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.03 20:08:00 - [76] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 03/08/2010 20:08:47 Originally by: Koba Kyogen Yep - it's begun. Anyone else remember/play Sony Online Ents old Star Wars Galaxies? Same $#!^, different day. Stick Dust up your @$$ and fix the existing product. No but I remember what they did to PotBS along with FLS. That was one of the reason I came to eVe. Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
liquidsteal	Posted - 2010.08.03 22:44:00 - [77] Originally by: Princess Nimotehp Thank heavens for StarCraft II, Thats is the game that actually keeps me in EVE (yes, u read correctly). I am so fed-up with EVE and all its lies and broken promises that if it had not been for SC2 i would leave EVE for another MMORPG with all my accounts this instant. SC2 can keep me busy until EVE is fixed (i hope) or if not i will just quit (SC kept me busy for 5 years). Gonna stick around for an "expansion" or two more to see if they get back in touch with us players.. if they still are out chazing the "shineys" i will quit for good. "You must construct aditional pylons".. Bliizard has officially acknowledged that a StarCraft 2 bug might fry graphics cards. The official Battle.Net support page explains that "screens that are light on detail may make your system overheat if cooling is overall insufficient. This is because the game has nothing to do so it is primarily just working on drawing the screen very quickly." The bug is caused by the fact that StarCraft 2 has no frame rate limit. Fortunately, such a limit can be imposed fairly easy by adding the following lines to Documents\StarCraft II\variables.txt file: frameratecapglue=30 frameratecap=60
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.03 22:52:00 - [78] I'm waiting to see how well EVE does this time round in the best game votes. If it doesn't do as well as it did before with a bigger playerbase than its ever had that will be food for thought. * Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
nu artiste Gallente Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.03 23:28:00 - [79] Massive is ought to be spanked. They put EMO/nerd/quit crowd into the power of Universal Rebellion. They are not getting money off it. I guess they are just trolling
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.08.04 01:37:00 - [80] Originally by: Mr Epeen And the vocal minority wins again Nobodies winning here I guess most of the angry players would never wish any kind of harm on CCP due to bad publicity damaging EVEs reputation and putting off potential players in the future, we all know that EVE needs to maintain its position as one of the few (only?) MMOs that has a constantly growing playerbase and growth means more income which should mean more development which is good for all players whether you mine all day or live in nullsec. If the publicity is bad enough for long enough it could be bad for us all but the ball is now in CCPs court and its up to them to address player concerns and until then this negative spotlight isn't going to go away.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2010.08.04 03:05:00 - [81] Originally by: Zeba I suspect the writer of that article plays 'eve: fleet fight' and is taking advantage of his position to spread the hate about his corner of the game. Nope, I'm in a little wormhole corp. Before that, I was in faction warfare (gallente side) from day 1 of FW until Apocrypha came out. It's interesting to see the responses this article has gotten. Some people have used it to suggest I'm supporting the angry player camp. Conversely, others have used it to suggest I'm supporting CCP's position. In truth, it's an opinion piece and represents my own opinion, which is somewhere in between. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.08.04 03:32:00 - [82] What is even more funny is that CCP is trying to hide this.... Instead of just working on the golden goose some more. Originally by: wr3cks I agree with this guy on the other side of Vale. One thing I'd add, though, is that it's all about the money. CCP is trying to ramp up to three games from one. As far as I know, they have not taken any recent outside investment (Wikipedia says that it's still majority-owned by the founders, and that they sold a minority stake for 2.6 mil in 2000 which I'm sure still smarts since that's now two weeks of revenue). They're mostly financing WoD and DUST with internal cash flow. This strategy, therefore, basically involves: 1) Cutting development expenditures on EVE to a bare minimum. Specifically, use as few of your $90k to $120k+ senior coders as possible, and lots of your $35k to $60k "content producers" and QA guys to add bolt-on fluff, like new agents or missions or whatever. Once non-technical people have tools to build ingame stuff, it's pretty easy and cheap to have them do so. 2) Maximize the overlap between EVE and your other games. Incarna is the biggest example of this -- devs working on Incarna for EVE are also, really, working on WoD and (possibly) DUST. It also wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if their new server farm was also rolled out to be able to also host those other games (since hardware was never the reason for server-side lag; it's the code). Obviously, once people give their money to CCP, it belongs to CCP and if they want to spend it on hookers and blow, good on them. But it's also pretty stupid to think that you can go from developing 1 game with your $50m/y in revenue to developing 3 games with the same revenue and that the first game won't deteriorate. I think players are interested in Incarna but they're not interested in it for the same reasons CCP is. CCP wants to develop WoD and expense part/most of it to the EVE playerbase, so to speak. This is a lot of resources we're talking. The playerbase, through the CSM, has made it clear that there are literally hundreds of things that they'd rather have fixed up with those resources. But, honestly, unless the suits decide that they're risking killing the goose that lays the golden eggs with their 3 games of development from 1 game of revenue strategy this strategy won't change. At this rate we'll probably get a reassuring devblog or two (those don't cost any money), and I bet they're hoping real hard that someone on their little "carte blanche" lag team has an epiphany, but the business fundamentals don't make me optimistic. I'm afraid that the only thing that will scare the suits into changing strategy is a significant revenue drop-off.
Lord Xantoh	Posted - 2010.08.04 06:38:00 - [83] Those unhapppy with the current state of the game should stop posting and convert their disappointment into action: Cancel at least your additional accounts and keep the main one. That should send a strong signal to CCP while you can still play with your main... Sadly enough, forum posts won't have any influence on CCP's decisionmaking. Money, however, talks.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.08.04 06:51:00 - [84] I find it interesting that the online magazines appear totally content with the "oh, fixing lag is our no. 1 priority now" and not went on to look at the devblogs which basically said what CCP is saying now "fixing lag has highest priority", "promised" results 6 months ago and failed to deliver anything.
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2010.08.04 06:54:00 - [85] Too link; didn't read. In other news, I hear that all publicity is good publicity. c/c?
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.04 07:03:00 - [86] I called it :D http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1353596
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.04 12:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Aerilis I called it :D http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1353596 Whips out the "i called it" cookie
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2010.08.04 13:28:00 - [88] Originally by: Gladys Pank Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. Feel free to whine and *** but do it ON YOUR BEHALF, not "90% of the population" . Please speak for yourself when asking others to speak for themselves. Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. I am not speaking for anyone else when I say that. I am not really even speaking "for myself" when I say that. I am merely pointing out a demonstrable fact. Some of the members of the Eve community are quite happy and content with the direction of the game. We know this is a fact because some of those people have posted that opinion in this thread (as well as posting in the countless other "Eve is dying" threads). So what's the actual objection? Do you not understand that "some" is accurate and justified but "90%" is a bogus statistic that was just pulled out of thin air to make the argument sound significant? Or is it that you don't see why arguing based on facts is different than just making ** up to justify or "support" however you happen to feel? Or is it just that you reflexively want to slag those who disagree with you but your debate skills peaked at the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I level?
Daniel Cordova	Posted - 2010.08.04 13:41:00 - [89] Originally by: xavier69 Over all reading that article I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations I think 90% of the players here are here to fly in a ship and pew pew 1. Not play dust 2. Not walk around in stations and RP 3. Not make resources off of planets I think T2, T1, moon mining, normal mining and invention was more than enough on support skills and mini games in that vein they should be working on new models like the one they released and improved lag and large battles The simplest way to explain it The army is the main song and dance all other branches of military are support units The main song and dance of this game is flying ships and pvp all other aspects should be support roles not main ones Where did you pull that number from?
wr3cks Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.04 16:15:00 - [90] It looks like I was more correct than I realized. CCP, any comment on the sudden need for your investors to start milking the company for money?
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.04 16:22:00 - [91] Originally by: wr3cks It looks like I was more correct than I realized. CCP, any comment on the sudden need for your investors to start milking the company for money? That has more to do with the ill fated Icesave and other bank troubles than it does CCP. CCP just happens to be one of the better companies in Iceland, and he's a wise investor. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
wr3cks Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.04 17:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: wr3cks It looks like I was more correct than I realized. CCP, any comment on the sudden need for your investors to start milking the company for money? That has more to do with the ill fated Icesave and other bank troubles than it does CCP. CCP just happens to be one of the better companies in Iceland, and he's a wise investor. I don't disagree, but he's a wise investor who is 1 billion euros in the hole, and his stake in CCP is one of the few assets he's got left. Surely he has some say in the financial management of the company...
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.08.04 18:01:00 - [93] Originally by: xavier69 I started playing this game as spaceship game to pvp It seems CCP keep driving away from that focus, with PI and soon to be dust a FPS and incara walking in stations Your not seeing Eve for what it is suppose to be. It is suppose to be a harsh universe. Many people see the harsh part but miss the universe part. Eve is not about flying spaceships. That is one component, the start. Eve is about an ever expanding universe of experience. Within the next 2 years Eve will have internet space ships, in station avatar based game play, FPS, Marketeering, manufacturing, RTS game play (on a local as well as universe level) as well as many other game types. That is the thing that makes Eve great, the depth and breath of the gaming experience. With "The Game that Shall Not Be Named" you get to... raid... and raid... and do some more raiding. Then farm a little to get the stuff you need to continue raiding. It is flat, no depth. That is most MMO's. There will never be an Eve 2. There will always be more to add to the universe. What makes Eve great is watching it grow, change, evolve... become what it has the capability to be. Unfortunately when growing you do suffer through growing pains. This is tougher to bear when people can't see past their noses and miss teh big picture. As to the article. Apocrypha was the worst patch I have seen for Eve. It brought a lot of content to the game but that content was thoroughly broken, more because it was not finished then for any other reason. CCP put in the time to fix the dysfunctional parts of Apocrypha (What? CCP doesn't fix anything. They jsut abandon content after patch day!!). 18 months with no fixes is a lie. 18 months without a Low Sec or FW expansion... well that is fine with me. Low Sec is broken and will always be so. It is the fault of the people that live there, their behavior is the only thing that will fix low sec. FW is a sub set of an already a small subset of the Eve player base. Minor tweaks, sure but a major revamp? Waste of development time. Major time sink and would effect a small amount of players. I look forward to Dust514 even though I will never pay it nor participate in the areas where it connects to Eve. I am also very excited to see Incarna nearing it's release date. After a 5 year development cycle I would like to see it in game... and out of the way. Although it is another part of the game that I have little interest in, Although the Machinima potential is intriguing. So.. lets see for me. Apoc brought better scanning. Dominion, not a flippin thing (ok, a Navy Domi I never use). Tyranis nothing but the ability to send/recieve Eve Mails without logging in. I have already had 18 months of "worthless content". TBH what is on the table for the next 18 months is better then the last 18 so for me, all is good i suppose. Now if they would just add more NPC 0.0 I would be happy. Of course I would never use it...
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.08.04 18:47:00 - [94] For the CCP apologists.... don't lose the forest for the tree's. A software product is supposed to work consistently. If a feature can't work because of technological limitations either remove that feature or adjust the scope of that feature so that it can achieve what it can in that area. Adding new features to the product is great but existing ones just can't persist in a broken state or the whole product and the companies commitment looks second rate.
Chingyz Caldari untaught	Posted - 2010.08.04 18:59:00 - [95] Originally by: Koba Kyogen Yep - it's begun. Anyone else remember/play Sony Online Ents old Star Wars Galaxies? Same $#!^, different day. Stick Dust up your @$$ and fix the existing product. I were there when SOE messed up SWG and this is nowhere near that. If you take EVE make it into a level based game where you can play either a miner, fighter, trader or explorer then you are getting to where SOE went with SWG. Lag is not the same as dumping down the game in order to cater to the WoW crowd.
Scott McClellan Forum Posters Anonymous	Posted - 2010.08.04 19:04:00 - [96] Edited by: Scott McClellan on 04/08/2010 19:04:50 Originally by: liquidsteal Bliizard has officially acknowledged that a StarCraft 2 bug might fry graphics cards. The official Battle.Net support page explains that "screens that are light on detail may make your system overheat if cooling is overall insufficient. This is because the game has nothing to do so it is primarily just working on drawing the screen very quickly." The bug is caused by the fact that StarCraft 2 has no frame rate limit. AFAIK a lot of games don't have framerate limits and don't suffer from this problem. At any rate, running Vsync will hard-cap your framerate to your screen refresh rate. Also it seems kind of disingenuous to say the SC2 bug fries graphics cards, considering the problem only occurs "if cooling is overall insufficient." If the card's cooling system cannot handle its heat output, either there's something wrong with the fan controller/driver or it is a poorly designed card.
Zey Nadar Gallente S0utherN Comfort The Spire Collective	Posted - 2010.08.05 00:03:00 - [97] "There's a growing perception that a huge disconnect exists between what players want and what CCP thinks players want. " Well CCP could just organise polls on the forum... But I guess that would spoil the fun.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.05 01:05:00 - [98] well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work
Kleus Flek Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.08.05 02:20:00 - [99] Originally by: HeliosGal well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work This type of customer is what has sustained CCP thusfar. Let us all see if there are enough of them left to keep CCP afloat.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.05 13:32:00 - [100] Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 13:36:33 Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: HeliosGal well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work This type of customer is what has sustained CCP thusfar. Let us all see if there are enough of them left to keep CCP afloat. Yea lets see. Im sure the massive vocal community of probably no more than a few thousand 0.0 players will bring CCP down bra. Tbh i havent seen more than a few hundred here on the forums whining as usual. Lets see? Yea keep on dreaming. As a side note ive been associated with 0.0 and large fleet/capital fights for years. This aint new. As a matter of fact this whole issue is only getting thread love because some players are butt hurt over CCP's plans and they dont like them. Well the effing door is right over there. Dont let it smack you in the butt on the way out.
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.08.05 13:55:00 - [101] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: wr3cks It looks like I was more correct than I realized. CCP, any comment on the sudden need for your investors to start milking the company for money? That has more to do with the ill fated Icesave and other bank troubles than it does CCP. CCP just happens to be one of the better companies in Iceland, and he's a wise investor. And pulled from that reuters piece: Originally by: Reuters Reporters & Bjorgolfur Thor Bjorgolfsson In a separate statement in Icelandic, Bjorgolfsson and his investment company Novator said he had agreed to pay his debts in full. He will keep stakes in two other Icelandic companies, computer games firm CCP and data-centre operator Verne Holdings, as well as in Polish telephone company Play, but dividends or the gains from future sales will go to pay down debt. "My activities will, as always, be characterised as real business with real assets, but not business for the sake of appearance with imaginary assets, a practice which unfortunately was too dominant in the Icelandic business sector in recent years," he said, according to an unofficial translation. The irony surely can't be lost on this forum's readers. CCP's revenues are based upon people around the world paying to play with assets that can evaporate with the tip of a single pint of beer into the server rack. Not quite "imaginary," but pretty damn close to it. If this guy is a CCP investor and he's in so much debt, we can be assured that CCP is feeling pressure to generate additional revenues and thus liquidity into their investors' pockets. Whatever steps CCP has to take in order to make this happen, it is certain that the playerbase's whims and desires for the game fall extraordinarily low on the priority list with CCP management. This gives new perspective to CCP's recent resource allocations and the suffering quality of their existing product, EVE.
0hai	Posted - 2010.08.05 15:25:00 - [102] Forward: Eve is a behemoth. It's one of the oldest running MMOs and as such has a population that is VERY rabid about it. Insane amounts of time, sweat, and carebear tears have made what it is today, both on the part of players and CCP. My take on these Shenanigans: 1) Personally, I like the idea of Dust 514. This is an incredible step in terms of multi-platform gaming, and to bring it all into the same universe is astounding. 5 years ago, this was just a crazy idea you had while you were high. So they developed it, and PI is the first step of integrating that mechanic into 'our' New Eden. It's not that they're trying to push out cheezy mini-games, they're taking the first step into implementing a much larger aspect of the game. 2) Yes, lag is an issue. It will always be an issue. It's been posted before, and I'll post it again. As soon as they get 2000 pilot fleet battles working properly, there will be complaints about 4000 pilot battles being too laggy. There will always be players who want to push the envelope, and while that's not a bad thing, it's an inevitability. Hardware is most likely the issue here. Alternatively, you can't expect CCP to shell out tens of thousands of dollars on the latest and greatest cloud computing systems to handle every single node in New Eden. Especially when they are the ONLY MMO company who offers you the option to play the game for in-game currency, without spending a penny of your own money, which, IMHO, is pretty bloody generous of them. 3) Finally, and I think this is a point that many seem to overlook, CCP is a BUSINESS. Their First goal is the sustainability and viability of their company. If that means developing new games to bring in revenue, especially considering Dust is directed at a completely different demographic from EVE (console FPSers), so be it. They are trying to Diversify their assets, and that's a good thing. Furthermore, CCP, as their track record shows, takes a very keen interest in their players. More so than Blizzard, more so than NCSoft, EA, moreso than any game developer I know of. If anyone deserves an iota of slack, its CCP. I'm not saying that I agree with all of their decisions, but we need to see this from their point of view, is all I'm saying.
Kaptain Kruncher	Posted - 2010.08.05 17:49:00 - [103] I have never seen a group of paying customers who so want the product, that their hard earned money support, to fail. It is almost hilarious (were it not so tragic) to read these forums. I have been playing for a couple of years with two characters. If I didn't like it or CCP, I wouldn't play. All of you unhappy customers should not play- It seems to be causing you way too much stress. Not healthy. Rock on CCP.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:02:00 - [104] Originally by: 0hai 2) Yes, lag is an issue. It will always be an issue. It's been posted before, and I'll post it again. As soon as they get 2000 pilot fleet battles working properly, there will be complaints about 4000 pilot battles being too laggy. There will always be players who want to push the envelope, and while that's not a bad thing, it's an inevitability. Hardware is most likely the issue here. Alternatively, you can't expect CCP to shell out tens of thousands of dollars on the latest and greatest cloud computing systems to handle every single node in New Eden. Especially when they are the ONLY MMO company who offers you the option to play the game for in-game currency, without spending a penny of your own money, which, IMHO, is pretty bloody generous of them. Stop posting this garbage. Its nonsense and just lets us know that your either a troll or a noob. Yes there will always be a degree of lag. This issue is that pre-dominion the lag had improved to a level that actually seemed good to most players. Then Dominion was released and the lag became terrible again. So idiot troll - please stop posting. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Syn Callibri Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:02:00 - [105] ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. Syn Callibri Ilharess to the Scorpion King
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Syn Callibri ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. Ghoest? A dev alt?? ROFL.. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:13:00 - [107] Originally by: Syn Callibri ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. He must be. I mean, he disagrees with you so he must be an alt dev. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:18:00 - [108] Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:21:31 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:19:41 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Syn Callibri ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. Ghoest? A dev alt?? ROFL.. Syn was referring to kaptain kruncher. I too must be a dev alt as i agree with kaptain k. Edit: atleast i hope he was otherwise ROFL as well
Rush Walken	Posted - 2010.08.05 18:23:00 - [109] Didnt read the article, read some of the replies, and all i can say is, stop whining about something that wont realy affect you that much!!! wow, you dont like the idea of walking in stations....dont do it. you dont like the idea of an FPS console game? no one is forcing you to play it. you want to just pew pew all the time you play? well, how is 1 thing they are planning going to take that away from you? short answer, its not. if anythi9ng it will get more people playing and thus more targets to gank when they wander into your sights. i for one realy cant wait till this long-delayed expansion comes out, and although i know it is something i WILL most likely use on a time to time basis, i know that the main part of the game, and the one most people play, will still be there. so quit crying and just deal.
Cybrin Scorpius	Posted - 2010.08.05 19:38:00 - [110] EVE direction, right on It is of my opinion that the direction CCP has at the moment is the proper direction according to the concept of EVE to be a complete scifi experience. I have been reading a lot of bias on the forum today. My bias is no different than the rest when I say I like how EVE is progressing. There are still quite a few changes I would like to see that would differ a lot with some people that play EVE. That's for another discussion. As far as I can tell, CCP is not full of people that rely on and give too much credit to individual human bias when determining what to do with their game and their company. They do, however, listen to that bias and add it to their decision making processes. That is evident. People trying to force CCP to do what they want when they want it is the disgusting problem I see on the forum right now. All I see is people saying this feature is stupid, this feature is not what everyone wants, the only feature CCP needs is more pewpew and human RTS, CCP should be doing this and not doing that. What makes you think your bias is any more important than the other person's? What right do you have to try and force CCP to do your bidding? I'll answer that last question for you, None. It just goes to show that to many people take a game way to seriously. Sure, we all want a game that we enjoy to play according to our own desires. However, we should be mature enough to realize that game needs to accomodate all of its players' desires and not just a select few that believe they somehow are more important than the rest of the player base. The CSM is no different. CCP knows this about it. They may claim to represent the majority of players, however, I'm of the opinion, there is no way possible for the CSM to represent that majority. Not only will CSM members bring their own agenda and personal bias but how are they to know what many players want when they have never spoken with them. Dare I say, are not capable of speaking with them in any way shape or form. Most importantly, CCP has a vision for EVE and they should stick to that vision regardless of the bias nature of humans.
Syn Callibri Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.05 19:46:00 - [111] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 05/08/2010 19:46:30 Originally by: Jovialmadness Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:21:31 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:19:41 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Syn Callibri ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. Ghoest? A dev alt?? ROFL.. Syn was referring to kaptain kruncher. I too must be a dev alt as i agree with kaptain k. Edit: atleast i hope he was otherwise ROFL as well Yes I was refering to Kruncher. Nah Madness your not a devalt...just a troll. Syn Callibri Ilharess to the Scorpion King
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.08.05 19:54:00 - [112] Originally by: Syn Callibri Edited by: Syn Callibri on 05/08/2010 19:48:03 Originally by: Jovialmadness Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:21:31 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/08/2010 18:19:41 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Syn Callibri ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I smell Dev alt. Ghoest? A dev alt?? ROFL.. Syn was referring to kaptain kruncher. I too must be a dev alt as i agree with kaptain k. Edit: atleast i hope he was otherwise ROFL as well Yes I was refering to Kruncher...Ghoest just beat me to the post. Nah Madness your not a devalt...just a troll. Loved by some hated by more. Ahhh such is the life...
Syn Callibri Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.05 19:58:00 - [113] Originally by: Jovialmadness Loved by some hated by more. Ahhh such is the life... Awwwwww shucks, I guess I kinda love ya (non-biblically)...most people aren't up to the task of good verbal sparring match like you are. You sir, are a prince among trolls! Syn Callibri Ilharess to the Scorpion King
0hai	Posted - 2010.08.05 20:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: 0hai 2) Yes, lag is an issue. It will always be an issue. It's been posted before, and I'll post it again. As soon as they get 2000 pilot fleet battles working properly, there will be complaints about 4000 pilot battles being too laggy. There will always be players who want to push the envelope, and while that's not a bad thing, it's an inevitability. Hardware is most likely the issue here. Alternatively, you can't expect CCP to shell out tens of thousands of dollars on the latest and greatest cloud computing systems to handle every single node in New Eden. Especially when they are the ONLY MMO company who offers you the option to play the game for in-game currency, without spending a penny of your own money, which, IMHO, is pretty bloody generous of them. Stop posting this garbage. Its nonsense and just lets us know that your either a troll or a noob. Yes there will always be a degree of lag. This issue is that pre-dominion the lag had improved to a level that actually seemed good to most players. Then Dominion was released and the lag became terrible again. So idiot troll - please stop posting. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that my legitimate opinion allows me to post it. Chill dude, not everyone here is a troll, I just prefer not to post as my main.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.08.05 20:31:00 - [115] Honest question since I didnt follow the link in the OP, what is Massively? Some kind of online gaming review magazine? And as a follow-up question, how many of you did actually read any reviews before starting to play eve? Or in other words, why should CCP even care? I for sure didnt read a single one, they have something called a free trial for a reason.
Syn Callibri Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.05 21:34:00 - [116] Originally by: Omara Otawan Honest question since I didnt follow the link in the OP, what is Massively? Some kind of online gaming review magazine? And as a follow-up question, how many of you did actually read any reviews before starting to play eve? Or in other words, why should CCP even care? I for sure didnt read a single one, they have something called a free trial for a reason. That would be correct. Syn Callibri Ilharess to the Scorpion Tribe
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.08.05 21:50:00 - [117] Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: HeliosGal well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work This type of customer is what has sustained CCP thusfar. Let us all see if there are enough of them left to keep CCP afloat. You're posting. That means you are still paying. Show us you're a man and quit. But before you biomass, I should mention that my hanger could use some more stuff. Mr Epeen
Kleus Flek Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2010.08.05 22:23:00 - [118] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: HeliosGal well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work This type of customer is what has sustained CCP thusfar. Let us all see if there are enough of them left to keep CCP afloat. You're posting. That means you are still paying. Show us you're a man and quit. But before you biomass, I should mention that my hanger could use some more stuff. Mr Epeen < is on day 3 of 5 day *FREE* reactivation. Fail troll is fail.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.08.05 22:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: HeliosGal well lets see what they bring to the table. They are still diong good work This type of customer is what has sustained CCP thusfar. Let us all see if there are enough of them left to keep CCP afloat. You're posting. That means you are still paying. Show us you're a man and quit. But before you biomass, I should mention that my hanger could use some more stuff. Mr Epeen < is on day 3 of 5 day *FREE* reactivation. Fail troll is fail. Of course you are
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.08.05 22:53:00 - [120] CCP Fanboys, non-it getters, et al; this isn't just about the minority FW/00-lag issues. IF and I can't make the point enough IF you play the game and use your head you can EASILY see numerous things 'wrong' with EVE poor design, broken items, missing features that IF they were there would make those things BETTER, which makes the game as a whole BETTER, how is that wrong? Why is wanting the game so many have invested their time and effort, in however you measure that; 00 ownership, billions of isk etc, to be better a bad thing? CCP left players with no choice but to take their issues to third parties to get CCP big wigs to take notice because as we've seen they either aren't getting it or have ignored the message. Read the assembly forum, browse the CSM issues pages, read the presented proposals they take/took to CCP, most are very well laid out ideas, at least as good as one can do without knowing how everything works behind the scenes at CCP. Then tell me you like your broken aspects of the game, that nothing needs or should be fixed/rebalanced if that is your position then good for you. I say that makes you a player with their head in the sand or other location, because there are problems with EVE it CAN be better and that is what players are angry about. We see and have often heard from CCP about what they are going to do only to have them deliver butchered watered down content and e-promise to make it better. I don't experience lag, unless I'm going into Jita, I don't 'care' about a lot of the issues people are wailing about 00/low sec. MIGHT I benefit if they got some attention, yes I would, many of those disenchanted players might bring back their alts, engage in more war and drive my business ventures up, it might change the game enough I'd try out some of the aspects of the game I don't. Maybe I wouldn't get burned out playing EVE because certain aspects of the game are broken or just suck. For the record I'd like Incarna, so long as they fully develop it, I don't expect it to be done at first release but I want it to get done in a year or two and be done because everything was completed not because they didn't want to spend anymore time or money developing it further when they can add more stuff, which is basically what they are doing with EVE. I don't care about DUST, another FPS still not interested, link it to EVE and we'll have to see how that works but I don't imagine caring about having to deal with console players to maintain protection/ownership of a PI facility, planet, or system if it is tied to sovereignty. I also don't see it being a big enough draw to keep enough console players playing it, especially if they have to pay to play, how is whatever it gets tied to in EVE going to work when there are only a few hundred or dozen of them and they are needed in the thousands or whatever? If there is/were to be a FPS aspect to EVE it should be in EVE not external to it through some other product, IMO anyway. No one really wants to see CCP fail, they want CCP to do better because they know it can be done and angry that it isn't, that instead the choice between making the EVE world a bigger more in depth place that works well, they are choosing to just make it bigger by tacking stuff on. The decision is to chase new revenue streams over taking care of those who built you up and maintain your company, there is nothing wrong with a company growing but to do so at the detriment of their flagship product while ignoring their loyal customers concerns is asinine. TLDR: Go get more pie fatty. ------------------------------------------------------- 5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity.
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.08.05 22:59:00 - [121] Though I agree with the core context of the article, somehow I get the feeling that the author wrote it in a fit of nerdrage. I'm not sure why, but to me it just reads like he was angry and tried to write this without it showing. Or maybe I'm just reading too much in between the lines. ________________________ CCP: "Sorry, we don't have the resources to fix old game features for at least two years, but we do have the resources to produce new game features." lol wut?
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2010.08.05 23:02:00 - [122] Originally by: Cyprus Black Though I agree with the core context of the article, somehow I get the feeling that the author wrote it in a fit of nerdrage. I'm not sure why, but to me it just reads like he was angry and tried to write this without it showing. Or maybe I'm just reading too much in between the lines. These forums are a fit of nerdrage lately Complete with made up statistics pulled out of people's asses, I'm surprised no one's gone quoting wikipedia yet to prove that EVE is dying Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.

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