Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 03:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lucyna on 04/08/2010 03:35:31 PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, READ BOTH LINKS BELOW LLSE Rules, aka How to get these new sparkly shares IsKBE IPO Details and Discussion
To get shares, you MUST... "evemail or convo Cista2. You must send isk along with your evemail, and LLSE will return the shares. (If shares are sold out it is the timing of isk transfer that determines who receives shares, you cannot reserve shares without isk transfer.)" - From LLSE thread
ISKBE is launching! A reminder, 1000 share issuance at 100,000 ISK per share. 100M IPO. The corp has 100.1M in wallet for my 1001, I'm paying for the shares too, so market cap is 200.1M.
Well it's now official. I'll post when I get news of anything. My schedule is different from Cista2, so there might be a delay.
Edit: How could I forget the 90's song quote? And I won't run for my life, She's got her jaws just locked now in smile but nothing is all right...
|
AnthonyKiedis
Nube Be Gone
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 04:11:00 -
[2]
in for 100
|
CarebearExtraordinaire
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 04:13:00 -
[3]
10 million isk sent to Cista2.
|
Pooshka
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 06:07:00 -
[4]
placed buy order to Cista2 for 100 shares.
|
Etharion Calthon
Caldari Allegiant Techsystems LLC
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 06:28:00 -
[5]
placed buy order with Cista2 for 100 shares -- woop
|
Zentrie
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 06:50:00 -
[6]
Bought 100 shares with Cista2 and received.
Do us proud. ~~Warpalishous~~ |
Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari Haruspex Industries
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 08:37:00 -
[7]
100 Shares reserved with Cista2 - ISK sent for Escrow.
|
Shinshi Casoyako
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 08:45:00 -
[8]
I am at work but I would like to reserve 100 shares at 100k isk. Payment will be done as soon as I get home. Please allow me to reserve the shares through this post.
If not reply here or send me an ingame mail. Ill be on at arround 17:00 eve time . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 08:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako I am at work but I would like to reserve 100 shares at 100k isk. Payment will be done as soon as I get home. Please allow me to reserve the shares through this post.
If not reply here or send me an ingame mail. Ill be on at arround 17:00 eve time
Per terms of the agreement, I cannot accept any reservation shares without isk sent to cista2. Like I said first post, you MUST go through cista2 to get the shares. Right now she has 300 shares left. I'll keep you in mind if I plan on another share issuance or a different venture (I'm keeping a list of everyone who's been interested through my multiple posts), but I have to go by the rules.
Sheesh it's late here, I'm going to bedzo.
|
Shinshi Casoyako
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 09:13:00 -
[10]
k thanks for the answer =) . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
|
AstarothPrime
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 09:29:00 -
[11]
Sent 10M to Cista2
Regards
I.
|
Dezolf
Minmatar DAX Action Stance
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 09:36:00 -
[12]
10m sent to Cista2
|
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:54:00 -
[13]
The 1,000 ISKBE first issue shares have been sold. You can now set up a buy order for ISKBE shares (and shares in other LLSE companies, in two different ways:
a) With escrow: by posting on the LLSE thread or sending an evemail to Cista2 with the number of shares you wish to buy and price, and immediately transferring that amount of isk to escrow. b) Without escrow. You can setup a buy order by evemailing Cista2 or posting on the LLSE thread. In contrast to escrow orders, buy orders without escrow will currently expire after 10 days.
Share holders can likewise set up a sell order at any price they wish.
----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Dezolf
Minmatar DAX Action Stance
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 17:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cista2 You can now set up a buy order for ISKBE shares (and shares in other LLSE companies
Why'd you link to HLM instead of the LLSE thread?
|
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.05 02:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 04/08/2010 18:05:56 The 1,000 ISKBE first issue shares have been sold. You can now set up a buy order for ISKBE shares (and shares in other LLSE companies, in two different ways:
a) With escrow: by posting on the LLSE thread or sending an evemail to Cista2 with the number of shares you wish to buy and price, and immediately transferring that amount of isk to escrow. b) Without escrow. You can setup a buy order by evemailing Cista2 or posting on the LLSE thread. In contrast to escrow orders, buy orders without escrow will currently expire after 10 days.
Share holders can likewise set up a sell order at any price they wish.
I'd like the money soon :) Still awaiting. Transferring to the corp wallet would be preferable.
|
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.15 01:11:00 -
[16]
Updated original post with a schedule You can expect some sort of report coming up within the next week.
Also, page 5 necro ftw?
|
Ramingo
Caldari Core Impulse
|
Posted - 2010.08.18 06:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ramingo on 18/08/2010 06:20:53 Having just audited this my findings are as follows:
- So far profits have been continuously positive, with the top 100 million isk in goods invested having had an average profit of well above 50%.
- Goods traded are manufacturing and trade goods, whilst almost completely staying away from t2 and t3 goods --> Low volatility and little speculation thus far.
- At the current levels traded, generating profit is still relatively easy, however given Lucyna's real world knowledge of the financial markets, which is expressed in high activity on the M&D forum, I believe profits will continue to be generated even with significantly higher capital.
My suggestion was to retain profits and reinvest them to add to the NAV of the shares and generate significantly higher profits in the future, but after having suggested this to Lucyna the next course of action is, as posted in the IPO, to distribute the corp wallet between the investors and move on to other personal things.
One downside is that Lucyna was scammed before, partly using funds from the corp wallet (under 40 mill isk) - hopefully though this will have served as a wake-up call and more attention will be paid to avoid future scams.
There is also always the risk that this is an isolated alt on a secondary account, but there have been no indications of another account and neither suspicious transactions nor posts.
To summarise, this company is very profitable and has very little risk of making a loss. There is always the chance of this being a scam, but given the low level of investment (100 million isk) I can confidently say this is extremely unlikely to happen.
Lucyna has expressed interest in venturing into contracts, which would bypass the diminishing returns of scale on the regular market and open up a new avenue of profit generating. Lucyna's inexperience and lack of empirical data on contract prices however will make this substantially higher risk than the current method of arbitrage trading. This however is not going to be part of this company and as such is merely a pointer for any future endeavour.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.08.18 06:50:00 -
[18]
Quote:
however given Lucyna's real world knowledge of the financial markets, which is expressed in high activity on the M&D forum, I believe profits will continue to be generated even with significantly higher capital
1) Could you give some references reinforcing this statement, please?
2) Could you please explain an example where this knowledge of financial markets has given this player a meausurable edge?
I am not nitpicking here, I just wonder how the above fits with:
Quote:
One downside is that Lucyna was scammed before, partly using funds from the corp wallet (under 40 mill isk)
You don't mention if this scam happened at player's birth or last week. Some unit of meausure would be fitting.
Quote:
Lucyna has expressed interest in venturing into contracts, which would bypass the diminishing returns of scale on the regular market
While contracts "live" on a somewhat different "universe" vs regular market, I don't believe contracts bypass diminishing returns of scale.
- "Sold a lot" contract items tend to have fierce competition (also yielding to low LP / ISK efficiency) and require babysitting. Babysitting that costs more than 0.01 ISKing.
- Sold less contract items are not very liquid, I'd see them more of a compound for a regular market activity
Contract items have a soft limit, often much smaller than regular market. To emphasize a blatant example: I am watching Rorqual BPO contracts, they move like a dead dinosaur, they "cap" their niche very quickly and then their price quickly drops to "barely worth doing" levels. The other items, of course have much more elastic figures but still, I'd like to see a proof they "bypass the diminishing returns of scale..."
Closing words You are sort of being audited yourself.
Depending on if and how you'll reply to this - and if you so desire - I'll give you tips about the profession of being EvE Auditor, something different than being a RL Auditor.
Example: EvE investors like to know about the NAV of the investees and approximate assets categories aggregate value.
I know this is vastly "too much effort" for such small ventures, but if you got to start, you may as well practice EvE's ways of doing the job while the tasks are easy.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Ramingo
Caldari Core Impulse
|
Posted - 2010.08.18 07:28:00 -
[19]
Hi, thanks for taking the time to assess the audit.
1) Lucyna has actively engaged in M&D discussions weighing in on other bonds, price discussion, trading advice discussions, etc., on which I based that opinion. Being active in the financial world IRL does not guarantee success in EVE's markets, and vice versa, but it is an indication that numbers and trading are familiar territory and as such different to someone random deciding to dabble in EVE's markets.
2) There is no measurable edge yet as most of the trading has been straight-forward arbitrage, as posted by Lucyna. Between a third and a half of the sales came from Jita, with the rest being split between the other 4 market hubs.
The scam occurred 10 days ago, 100 mill from personal wallet and 30 mill from corp wallet to buy a few renamed vexors under the impression they were faction ones.
You focus a lot on contracts but I explicitly stated that contracts have nothing to do with Lucyna's current business model, merely that this is something of interest to her for future endeavours. Since I can't audit her future projects (yet) I don't want to go into more detail than I've already posted, as it's mostly irrelevant to this IPO/business.
I'd very much appreciate your guidance on becoming an eve auditor - I also know it does not have much in common with auditing IRL.
Regarding the asset categories, as stated they were around 95% manufacturing and trade goods, with only a single and brief trade in t2 modules. Most of the profits were derived from very specific items and I promised the Lucyna not to divulge any trade secrets, as such I found it important not to disclose any more details about the break-down of traded goods.
Regarding the NAV, the current corp's value is now close to 400 mill isk, 200 mill of which is in the corp wallet, 100 mill in escrow and another 100 mill in sell orders. Given that the capitalisation of the corp was 200 million at start, that's almost a 100% profit thus far.
|
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:54:00 -
[20]
And if any of the investors have further questions, please feel free to contact me. I can verify that Ramingo relayed my comments that I made to him accurately. The scammer was Lanissum, through the "Bulk Trade" mailing list, and honestly, the deal was too good to be true, but I was pretty stupid. No more station player-trading for me. Just contracts.
I do not plan on delving into contracts in the scope of this IPO, and only if I find that the profitability/liquidity ratio is worth it in the future.
I personally am happy with the services Ramingo provided, but as for the quality of the audit, that's for my investors and other commentators to decide. He was quite prompt in his services.
|
|
Shinshi Casoyako
|
Posted - 2010.08.19 06:34:00 -
[21]
With a very low investment and a possible very high return, risk will allways be an issue.
The only real important issues here are: How active will the ceo be and how many dividend will be given.
This is important for future investors . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.19 17:08:00 -
[22]
There might be only one dividend. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to take the company private or disband it.
Taking the company private would consist of me buying shares back at a price which I feel is fair given the current state of the company. For instance, if the company's NAV is something like ~1B, each share (out of 2001) would be a bit less than 500,000. Taking off some fee, I might offer a buyback of 400-450K per share.
Disbanding the company and venture would mean I liquidate all assets and distribute all isk to shareholders. Again, if the isk held after liquidation is 1B, that means something again like 400-450K per share (after fee).
The two options are very much similar for the investors, but different for me. If I take the company private, I wouldn't have to liquidate (which wouldn't make that much difference, I deal in very liquid assets) and I could keep the company name under my namesake. If I disband the company, well it's obvious what that means, no more ISKBE.
In either case, I expect that (at least the initial investors) will recieve a very very large return on their investment. Like on the order of 400%. That is if I choose to disband sooner rather than later.
I will continue to explore different options, and I hope that the shareholders will come up with a good exit strategy when the time is right. Expect to hear more from me in the next two weeks or so, when the first dividend is due.
Edit: One way of assesing the "managers fee" is by creating and distributing shares to myself based on monthly performance. This way, it would keep me more actively engaged in the company, but over time shrink the pool of assets. Again, this is just a thought I had. It's not part of the original plan and it would need to be voted on by the investors for sure before a system like this is put into place.
I'll send out letters later today (afternoon pacific time) to begin the discussion of this topic within the co-owners circle. If we are to come to an agreement on a change, I'll post it within this thread.
|
daddys helper
|
Posted - 2010.08.19 21:37:00 -
[23]
teh? you launch an ipo on the 4th and are talking about closing shop or going private on the 19th?
is this common practice in eve?
|
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.19 21:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: daddys helper teh? you launch an ipo on the 4th and are talking about closing shop or going private on the 19th?
is this common practice in eve?
I wouldn't do it if I was getting more compensation for my time. I'm currently in discussion with my shareholders about ways I can get more compensation. As it stands right now, they put in about 50% of the funds and will get about 50% of the value of the company at close. This is great for them but "meh" for me, as I'm the one doing all of the work.
I'm discussing my equity compensation (in the form of additional issued shares) based upon my performance. This is just in the discussion phase at the moment and is not set in stone. If I were to get this kind of compensation, it'd be worth it for me to run this corporation much longer.
If I don't get this compensation, the shareholders will be hansomly rewarded for their investment whenever I close shop, be it now, after ISKBE's one month birthday, or some other time down the road. So I'm not exactly screwing the investors.
|
Zentrie
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.08.20 00:04:00 -
[25]
Wouldnt bother me either way as an investor. I would get a profit now to invest elsewhere, or continue my investment where its at. I dont see why anyone would be severely upset if you decided to stop doing it early, if you so choose. Dont let people get you down its completely your call. I personally couldnt do a company type deal myself because I am a money ***** and enjoy keeping all proceeds to myself, even from my husband! lol Ill stick to investments here and there into other peoples margins!
Anywho, do what you enjoy, and I, as well as the others I'm sure, will check out your news letter and see whats in store =) ~~Warpalishous~~ |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.20 02:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lucyna on 20/08/2010 02:33:01 My investors aren't exactly the chatty types. I haven't recieved one mail about it and zen is the only one to respond, but I can definitely wait for some responses before putting anything permanent into place.
The letter I sent them (there is no privelaged info in it) is attached below.
------------- This is the new spreadsheet that takes a look at dividend payments under the system.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ap4ZbO2frVWQdHB3ZUs1cUN0YkNycC15bFN4VzVpenc&hl=en&authkey=CO2svfsJ
-------------------------------- Re: Shareholder Report From: Lucyna Sent: 2010.08.19 20:54 To: xxx
Dear Shareholders,
Announcement 1: I have removed the service charge, hopefully!
Announcement 2: I have thought of at least one way besides imposing an arbitrary fee on the fund that would go straight to Lucyna (me) to keep my interest in ISKBE up. See the last post in the official announcement thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1363710
This is the first draft of the proposal.
Proposal: I create shares and send them to myself, where the # of shares is based on my performance as measured by NAV increase, month to month. This would serve 2 (upside) purposes. (1) It would keep me interested in the project longer, as the longer I stay in, the better I am compensated, and (2) it would give the shareholders a clear measure of how much extra compensation I'm getting.
The downside to this is that releasing extra shares to myself will dillute the value of the shares that you currently hold, as well as dilute the dividends.
As always, If I were to take the corp private, I would offer a share buyback price based on the actual underlying value of the share (ie how much of the NAV of the company the share represents), and if I were to close the corp, I would liquidate and distribute all funds to the shareholders, (again the shares would be valued like those above). Thus, the shares have underlying value still.
Obviously, with this kind of compensation program, there needs to be controls so that the value of your shares continue to grow with the scope of the company (aka I need to not be issuing 1000s of shares to myself monthly).
What I propose is this: At the end of the one-month period (after dividend payment), for every 1% NAV increase I issue to myself 0.4% of the existing shares.
Here is a link to how this would go in a hypothetical expansion:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ap4ZbO2frVWQdHJEMTVnZVdfMWlRRDB6WmRJdVRXakE&hl=en&authkey=CKu63-IL
The end result of this program is that if I'm making money, the underlying asset value of each share will continue to rise. (Good for you).
While this is a nice and controlled way to make sure I have interest in the project, it's not anywhere near what the IPO plan was in terms of compensation (aka there were to be no share expansions without an equal contribution from myself to retain majority control of the corporation). Thus, we need to discuss this proposal and the terms as a company.
The way I see it, if this isn't agreed upon, I will probably close up ISKBE a lot sooner.
The dividend structure will remain, as agreed in the inital discussion section of the IPO:
100% NAV Increase: 5% of profits 50-100%: 7.5% of profits 0-50%: 10% of profits
If you would like to see how this measure would affect your dividends, I can perhaps add a column in the spreadsheet to track dividends and dividend per share.
If EVE-Mail is to cumbersome to talk, we can do it on the forums or in another place of your choosing.
I hope all is well!
Lucyna -----------------
|
Shinshi Casoyako
|
Posted - 2010.08.20 06:22:00 -
[27]
Do not go through all that hazzle. First thing you need to do is secure a first dividend. Based on this dividend your stock price will rise.
Now get into a corperate vote and tripple the number of shares. You will have 6003 shares available.
1000 for investers 5003 for you
Compensate your investers with a 10% stock size increase.
1100 for investers 4903 for you
Sel 900 more share at a higher price (say 1 million orso)
2000 for investers 4003 for you.
You now hold 2/3 of your income for yourself. Old investers will be happy because they have recieved first dividend and a 10% portfolio increase for only 17% overall drop in dividend.
This process you can repeat one more time so that you hold 75% of the shares. After this it would become very tricky for new investers to spend money on your company.
Personally I dont mind what you do as long as you are having fun with it. But be aware that stating that you might stop the corp isnt a good thing to attract more investors. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako ...
I know that it's not a good way to attract investors. Currently I'm not seeking any additional sale of equity.
As far as hassle, there is no hassle. I just plug my NAV into a simple formula, figure out my equity compensation, and give it to myself. The problem with arbitrarily tripling the amount of shares is that if I turn out to be not very profitable, then even the initial investors may find that they are losing share value month to month. The system I mentioned makes sure that as long as I'm in the green, the NAV/share value will continue to rise.
Now if you don't like the system because of other reasons (a la you won't be getting as much money as we agreed upon before), I can understand that and take your sentiment under consideration.
|
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.21 22:37:00 -
[29]
I am officially starting a corp vote about the topic decribed in above posts. If you cannot vote (aka you can't get on the eve client) then contact me, or list it on this thread.
|
Phoebe Halliwel
|
Posted - 2010.08.21 23:06:00 -
[30]
Not an investor, but I'd suggest you resolve this quickly with as little fuss as possible. It's certainly good to see someone new set up an offering, issue shares etc, but if I'm not mistaken this is worth 100 million in investor funds? It's a relatively small amount, not necessarily worth a lot of discussion, although it's good to see you taking the time to consider the options, and reflects favourably on you as someone to keep an eye on long term.
If you have joint ownership with your investors but your NAV is rising very sharply compared to the initial share valuation, it's quite sensible to consider your position and cash out now. If you are in a position to repay investors at the point of the first dividend payment, you should do it. You are quite correct, it's really not worth your time to be paying investors on 50% of your game time and effort ongoing, particularly if it cripples your growth. One significant risk with new offerings in MD is burnout, if your effort to reward ratio is off, there's more of a chance of you giving up, which doesn't actually help how you will be assessed ongoing as a viable investment. If that makes sense... This is a problem with offerings from newer players who overachieve as the initial share offering may become a burden to their growth rather than an assist, and the share mechanism in game isn't that helpful in terms of resolving it except by closing down the corp/cashing out.
I doubt your investors will be overly upset if you repay them their principle early (plus interest) and allow them preferential reservations on future offerings. They'll probably be happy to have their ISK back with a healthy % return. I'd suggest you look at trying a fixed interest offering next time (possibly a bond) and have your accounts audited both before and during/after if you can (with clear numbers that demonstrate your growth). You could also try a stint using only personal funds so you can asess your growth rate and plan your next offering accordingly. It's worth avoiding the in game share mechanic if you are attached to that corp name as you may have trouble getting shares back when you close out offerings. Bear in mind plenty of people launch offerings on MD without using the ingame share mechanism, it is an accepted practice.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |