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Cthulhu ftghan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:07:00 -
[1]
So this may have been thought of before, but here's my idea. Most alliances hate afk stealthers, but have no effective means of combatting them. Perhaps there could be the space version of depth charges. Instead of an explosion however, there would be some sort of massive energy bubble. This charge would NOT do damage. However it would be an enormous em type pulse that would 1) uncloak ships and 2) greatly increase the signature radius of ships caught in the blast (making them easier to probe out). These would be massive explosions, like 1AU diameter spheres. However, the launcher should only fit on a BS and have large enough ammo that only 3-4 can be launched without restocking ammo.
If you are really serious about hunting down a cloaky, you would need a probe ship, BS depth charger to knock them out of cloak, and an industrial or similar ship to carry around extra charges. Would it be easy to track an afk cloaker? No. But you would have some option to try.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.08.06 15:05:00 -
[2]
Not even going into discussion whether afk cloaker is so horrible doom as you try to paint it... these discussions are spawning here constantly and you should have look for them before posting...
You talk about afk cloakers much here, but your proposed weapon does not make any distinction between afk and non afk cloaker, does it ? If I am cloaked next behind you and ofc not afk - I certainly do not expect to be decloaked. If only for this - completely not supported at all. Adapt to live in a danger or get back to empire.
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Cthulhu ftghan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:00:00 -
[3]
Whoa, settle down there fella.á Could have sworn this is an ideas forum.á A couple thingsà á This doesnÆt have to be aimed at AFK-ers.á I donÆt care about them, some people do.á Look at it another way.á You found that a BO ship is in your system, cloaked in some safe spot, probably getting ready to open a field.á Instead of having no defense against this, you could do what is done in real life against submarines.á Start dropping bombs to different depths, hoping you get lucky and light them up.á Is it always going to work?á No.á Is it easy to find your target?á No.á But it might make someone think twice about trying to drop a covert cyno.á á I donÆt understand this ôAdapt to live in a danger or get back to empireö right after ôIf I am cloaked next behind you and ofc not afk û I certainly do not expect to be decloaked.ö áThat really doesnÆt sound like adapting to live in danger. á DonÆt get your panties in a bunch, itÆs an idea, not an accusation.á Constructive criticism would go a bit farther. á Also, letÆs say that these depth charges canÆt go off within 1AU of a station, planet, moon, etc.á These would be deep(er) space charges.á Maybe a 1 minute reload time. á á
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:04:00 -
[4]
There is another nerf stealth bombers thread on the first page, why the hell do you think we need another?
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mag's There is another nerf stealth bombers thread on the first page, why the hell do you think we need another?
Because it is always easier to ask other people than adapting yourself to survive.
I sometimes wonder, how those people survive in real life ...
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Mag's There is another nerf stealth bombers thread on the first page, why the hell do you think we need another?
Because it is always easier to ask other people than adapting yourself to survive.
I sometimes wonder, how those people survive in real life ...
It may be that many of the whiners haven't even entered the real world yet, if you know what I mean.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan Would it be easy to track an afk cloaker?
Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan afk cloaker
Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan afk
If they're AFK why do you care?
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Cthulhu ftghan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:32:00 -
[8]
Perhaps I should clarify.á IÆm not aiming this specifically at AFK-rs or SB pilots.á It sounds like a lot of bomber pilots are butthurt by a suggestion that there is some way to find them.á I have never been killed by a bomber, or had a hard time with recon ships, or anything of the sort.á Just trying to add a new idea to the game, and thought depth charges sounded like a cool idea.á So all of you that think IÆm gonna gitcha, relax, IÆm sure if it is that bad of an idea, it just wonÆt be implemented. á
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JohnPaulJones
Caldari Valhalla Naval Corp IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:32:00 -
[9]
Quote: So this may have been thought of before, but here's my idea. Most alliances hate afk stealthers,
The very fact your complaining about the use of cloakers is the best possible statement to their effectiveness in the role of area denial and economic suppression. Using cloakers to observe and light cynos during the marks jump freighter ops renders the area almost inaecessable to affore mentioned jump freighters.
Bombers in 2's and 3's are especially effective in area economic suppression of an upgraded system disallowing the use of Anamolies,Complexes and standard/hidden asteroid belts. Threat of random death keeps most carebears caged in their starbases. It just so happens the carebear is the one most likely to lament about his predicament and demoralize those around him much to the benefit of the stealth operator or his team/client. A few weeks of this will render anything from invaluable intel prior to an invasion to a decent ransom for going away.
I love stealth operations such as this. There are easy counters to this but I'll leave you to figure them out. Any 2nd year pod pilot should already know how. Good luck.
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Cthulhu ftghan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:00:00 -
[10]
--JohnPaulJones, thank you for the information.á I donÆt dispute the usefulness or validity of the tactics involved in cloaking for intel or denial of area attacks.á Both are great IMO, they use the game mechanics to the fullest. IÆm not complaining about AFK-ers, SBs, or anything else stealth involved.á What I was trying to suggest is that there is a deep-space option that could blow up the sig radius of ships that are normally hard to scan down, with the added bonus that it could knock a stealth ship back into a findable state.á I agree, stealth ops are fun and make the game that much more dangerous, I just think this would add a new dynamic to reconnaissance. Again, thank you for your well thought out response and argument.á It has been the only one so far.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:05:00 -
[11]
so you say ... you want to take away the only reason to fit a cloak?
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suspisious
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:08:00 -
[12]
sounds good.
Theres very few things in eve that garantee absolute safety. docking up, logging off and cloaking somewhere in space. Cloaking should not be there on that list.
THere are things you can do against these stealthy people. but they all boil down to: prepare/set a trap and wait. It's the waiting bit that is really annoying. minutes, hours or even days. And he might not even show up. And what is he doing? spying on you, having dinner or a good night sleep dreaming about the cyno hes gonna settup tommorrow morning.
Give us something, anything for tracking cloaked ships. Its gotta be something hard to use. Something a cloaker can still quite easily avoid. So cloaks are still a very good option, but gotta be a little more vigilant, because cloaking wont give the 100% security anymore.
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Cthulhu ftghan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:31:00 -
[13]
I disagree, I donÆt think they should be trackable/scannable.á However, some chance to knock them out of stealth would be great.á But consider a 1AU diameter bubble that could do it.á How massive is each system?á There are several that are 180+ AU across.á Not counting vertically and every which way.á It is not like 1AU is that big in this game, but if you have an idea of where someone is, you could start lobbing charges and hope your scanner ship can pick them up. á
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A'nubis
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:32:00 -
[14]
So if no one is truly safe in Eve why are cloakers?
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.08.06 20:33:00 -
[15]
The only ones who fear, or cry about AFK cloakers in 0.0 are the carebears who leech of their alliance for ratting rights in 0.0.
Seriously.
Do you see anyone from low sec on these boards crying about people afk in stations, or afk in POSes in lowsec?
The potential threat is exactly the same.
Here is my suggestion.
Ban everyone from this board who *****es about AFK cloaking.
Cloaking does not need a counter, because any thing cloaked is harmless. You counter the ship hidden behind the cloak, not the cloak itself. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.08.06 20:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Magnus Orin The only ones who fear, or cry about AFK cloakers in 0.0 are the carebears who leech of their alliance for ratting rights in 0.0.
Seriously.
Do you see anyone from low sec on these boards crying about people afk in stations, or afk in POSes in lowsec?
The potential threat is exactly the same.
Here is my suggestion.
Ban everyone from this board who *****es about AFK cloaking.
Cloaking does not need a counter, because any thing cloaked is harmless. You counter the ship hidden behind the cloak, not the cloak itself.
your list is missing the wormhole people. they cry least about cloakers. one might ask why.
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JohnPaulJones
Caldari Valhalla Naval Corp IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 06/08/2010 21:06:05
Quote: The only ones who fear, or cry about AFK cloakers in 0.0 are the carebears who leech of their alliance for ratting rights in 0.0.
I dont see ratting an upgraded system as leeching sir. Matter of fact as a CEO who has ratters and suppresses our hostile counterparts I can say that they are EXTREMELY usefull. They are first to squawk in intel channels and last to shut up. Easily startled but usefull. IMO the ratter is a taxable resource and any corp not taxing ratters is foolish. The isk to tax ratio in Null is such a pilot can sustain 20% and earn 5-50 times that of ANY lvl 4 mission and that is a solid personally confirmed fact. There are almost daily faction/deadspace drops that can and do bring pilots hundreds of millions to billions in untaxed isk per spawn. TAX THEM. Only a foolish CEO lets them leech. That isk can be used for: alliance dues, ship replacement program that protects the ratters AO or to fund corp projects that benefit the members. Any ratter who scoffs at 20% taxes should stay in empire and race the ninjas for their meager scraps while the smart ones play their cards well.
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Dyno Mite
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dyno Mite on 06/08/2010 22:10:26 i like this idea! too many people complain because they fear that they wont be able to use certain technologies. you fear that your not going to get away in your cloaky ship? well i would fear it too because when i run a crane around in null sec and a bubble is up and they got a mod like this im screwed! that doesnt mean fight it, it just means be more carefull.
i think of it this way if its scientificly possible allow it. if you have a civilization such as this in eve this advanced with this much technology then decloaking a ship shouldnt be a problem. if your a scientist in this universe you should easily be able to ask your self ... what disables a cloak? how to delever the effect? how to improve it for practical use? ... and then do it.
this idea is using technology we use today! it should totally be allowed.
also i dont emagine this would be easily acomplished if your hunting a cloaked ship in your solor system because if you dont catch the direction they are going as soon as they enter your solar system, i dont emagine that youll catch them if they are smart. all they have to do is make a bm half way in between the gate and the sun and you will probably not find them because thats too big of a gap for 1 au.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dyno Mite Edited by: Dyno Mite on 06/08/2010 22:10:26 i like this idea! too many people complain because they fear that they wont be able to use certain technologies. you fear that your not going to get away in your cloaky ship? well i would fear it too because when i run a crane around in null sec and a bubble is up and they got a mod like this im screwed! that doesnt mean fight it, it just means be more carefull.
i think of it this way if its scientificly possible allow it. if you have a civilization such as this in eve this advanced with this much technology then decloaking a ship shouldnt be a problem. if your a scientist in this universe you should easily be able to ask your self ... what disables a cloak? how to delever the effect? how to improve it for practical use? ... and then do it.
this idea is using technology we use today! it should totally be allowed.
also i dont emagine this would be easily acomplished if your hunting a cloaked ship in your solor system because if you dont catch the direction they are going as soon as they enter your solar system, i dont emagine that youll catch them if they are smart. all they have to do is make a bm half way in between the gate and the sun and you will probably not find them because thats too big of a gap for 1 au.
if you mean by being more careful "ruining a ship that was meant to pass through gate camps and now also requiring a scout in a frigate" then you might be right.
and of course recons and covert ops wont be nerfed in the same go.
do people think ideas through to the end ever?
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: darius mclever
do people think ideas through to the end ever?
No. Why ?
"sounded like a cool idea" is more than enough, isn't it.
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Aion Amarra
Minmatar Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.07 05:47:00 -
[21]
I don't generally mind the concept of a decloak bomb or something of the like (could even be launched via bomb launchers, actually, not that stealth bombers need another boost).
But I don't think that increasing the sig radius (or decreasing scan strength) to make things easier to scan down is a good idea, given both of those options also impact combat.
A secondary gang of ships warping to the planet next to a gatecamp, busting a half-dozen charges, then having the main fleet warp in and explode the camp that now has a horribly inflated sig radius (or alternatively, is horribly easy to jam due to low sensor strength) does not sound all that awesome to me, same for similar scenarios.
Instead, you could have the charges give some sort of directional sensor echo you could interpret to better position scan probes (and thus save a cycle or two), or just give a modifier straight to the scanning equation, or something, that'd make this easier, without impacting other areas of the game.
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suspisious
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Posted - 2010.08.07 08:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Magnus Orin Cloaking does not need a counter, because any thing cloaked is harmless. You counter the ship hidden behind the cloak, not the cloak itself.
So a lion stalking you in the tall grass is harmless then? and only becomes dangerous when it pounces you?
And comparing a cloaked ship with a docked/in a POS shield ship. The key differences are that you know exactly where they are. And that their intel on the system is limited.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.08.07 09:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: suspisious So a lion stalking you in the tall grass is harmless then? and only becomes dangerous when it pounces you?
Real life analogies, especially ones that have no bearing what so ever on the subject, are always fail. They also tend to be favoured by those, without a valid argument.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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suspisious
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Posted - 2010.08.08 08:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: suspisious So a lion stalking you in the tall grass is harmless then? and only becomes dangerous when it pounces you?
Real life analogies, especially ones that have no bearing what so ever on the subject, are always fail. They also tend to be favoured by those, without a valid argument.
Analogies are often used for teaching all the way up to university level. This to try and make a difficult subject easier to understand. So it is not a fail to use.
This analogy was meant to disprove that a ship in hiding is in fact not harmless at all. (an argument always used in these cloaky threads)
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 11:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: suspisious Analogies are often used for teaching all the way up to university level. This to try and make a difficult subject easier to understand. So it is not a fail to use.
This analogy was meant to disprove that a ship in hiding is in fact not harmless at all. (an argument always used in these cloaky threads)
We are not in a class room, we are on a forum discussing a virtual world. Real life analogies, especially ones that have no relevance to the subject, are fail.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2010.08.08 12:31:00 -
[26]
Veiled anti cloaker thread.
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Bomb Shell
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:41:00 -
[27]
Quote: So a lion stalking you in the tall grass is harmless then? and only becomes dangerous when it pounces you?
The lion is harmless though as you don't know its there (last I checked you don't have a local display in Africa.) How do you know its going to hurt you. So with your analogy cloaks ships should be removed from local. There that would fix all the problems.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar U-208
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:51:00 -
[28]
The only solution to cloak that should be implemented is the removal of local, or at least the removal of the player from local while cloaked.
This would stop all the crying and the rest of the real players could go back to reading forums without seeing yet another cloak thread made by some WOW kid
~ ° ° ° ~ Non-Gameplay Enhancements! |
SGT FUNYOUN
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.09 18:24:00 -
[29]
I WANT DEPTH CHARGES!!!
I also would like a mini depth charge for small ships that would have a much smaller area of effect... say 50 km max. These could be fitted to cruisers or frigs and would not do a full decloak but would simply make the enemy cloak more visible for 10 - 15 seconds. These would really help me get revenge on the guys who Podded me in Egghelende twice. I so want that 100mil bounty. Yargh. I be SGT Funyoun. |
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