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Earl Wyane
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:57:00 -
[1]
I'm getting my pvp career started soon and i'm aiming to join a small pirate/pvp corp (unfortunately FW is off-limits since I don't wanna deal with being barred access to my main character's base of operation in Amarr space).
I'd like to avoid the cliche rifter if at all possible. Currently have my eye on the thrasher and vigil as possible alternatives. I'm not looking for loadouts necessarily (lots of good ones on BC to try), but rather opinions on how effective a thrasher or vigil would be in a small gang setup.
Thanks
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Tosi
NPC Corporation
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tosi on 09/08/2010 02:10:55 http://eveart.l3ds.com/pics/Faction/Angel_Cartel/Machariel1680x1050.jpg
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.08.09 11:09:00 -
[3]
Vigil is pretty lame, Rifter is cliche because it kicks ass. Thrasher's good too, can get rid of pesky frigs for your gang.
For cruisers, Stabber and Rupture are both pretty cool.
And once you get the Hurricane, oh god that ship is awesome.
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Starnap
Concentrated Evil
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Posted - 2010.08.09 12:10:00 -
[4]
Thrasher is awesome.
If you want a Rifter alternative, try the Breacher - fit a long point and mwd, fire missiles at helpless target
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AdZc
Caldari Legio Prima Victrix
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Posted - 2010.08.09 13:27:00 -
[5]
What exactly do u want to Specialize in?
Sorry if i misunderstand ur question, but do u mean a specific role or ship?
U gonna be tackle or DPS or Scout etc.? --------------------------- Shipoopi!
Originally by: Sangeli
Please be nice to me I donated blood
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Inggroth
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Posted - 2010.08.09 13:48:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Inggroth on 09/08/2010 13:48:49
Originally by: Earl Wyane I'd like to avoid the cliche rifter if at all possible. Currently have my eye on the thrasher and vigil as possible alternatives.
Rifter is cliche cause its good. And versatile. And cheap.
Arty Thrasher requires good fitting skills (AWUIV-V), then you can unload lolalpha in the face of frigs/inties. You will be insta-primaried by frig-gangs though and with no tank die a lot.
Jaguar is good (arguably best AF along with the Ishkur), but after flying that solo IMHO its not enough bang for the buck. You need to shell out for coreli-c/gistii-b AB (12-15mil) and probably a pricey DC (pseudoelectron containment field, 5mil) . And the hull itself is like near 20mil.
Rupture and Cane are both awesome PvP boats (and cheap).
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Zernez
Minmatar Tribal Core
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Posted - 2010.08.09 17:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Inggroth Edited by: Inggroth on 09/08/2010 13:51:08
Vigil is useless (like all t1 ewar frigs except Griffin)
I humbly beg to differ. In a gang, a Vigil can be a cheap, expendable substitute for an interceptor if you either can't afford one or don't have the skills yet.
Couple of nanofibres, mwd, disruptor and you can book at over 4km/s and tackle. You just need to hold the target until the big boys get a point on him, if you die afterwards, who cares. The TP is just to make sure you get on all the killmails.
Soloing, yeah, it's crap.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.08.09 21:44:00 -
[8]
I couldn't help noticing that the folks smacking the Vigil don't appear to have spent much time in one. No offense meant Inggroth, however, you might want to try a different flavor than rifters.
Yes, the Vigil sucks. I <3 Vigils.
OP: Drop me a line ingame sometime and I'll share how I use the Vigil solo and for gangs. It definitely has it's limits but I've been pleasantly surprised with both the success I have had with it and the fights I can get. Disclaimer: I primarily use it solo and feel a bit guilty bringing it along for gang work due to it's anemic dps but it does make a nice tackler that most targets aren't as anxious about seeing one on scan as they are when they see an inty or faction frig.
Also, last time I checked, the loadouts for Vigils on BC run the gamut from vanilla to laughable. It's just not a very popular ship so it doesn't see much love from EFT warriors. One of the better fits posted was actually slammed pretty good by the BC hardmen.
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Russel Williams
Minmatar Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.08.09 22:57:00 -
[9]
The Vigil is good at its tackling role. [Vigil, New Setup 1] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Small Capacitor Battery II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Warrior II x1
With a 3% speed, agility and Zor's you go 5,200m/s without overheating. Not too bad for a very disposable tackler. Thrashers are great fun too. However no being lazy when it comes to them
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Inggroth
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Inggroth on 10/08/2010 09:58:08
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo I couldn't help noticing that the folks smacking the Vigil don't appear to have spent much time in one. No offense meant Inggroth, however, you might want to try a different flavor than rifters.
So point me to some worthwile kills in your vigil and i might consider. After a quick search all i saw were some first-time-in-lowsec-nublets in t1 frigs ratting it up around hevrice where you guys hang out. Oh and a salvager Scythe.... You can manage to kill those in a noobship tbh.
Also unbonused beams with aurora is what? 20dps?
In a Rifter at least i can engage pvp-fit frigs and win, as well as occasionally getting that lucky scram on a ceptor...
For tackling role you might as well spend 2 weeks and get in a stiletto which will actually tackle stuff long enough for your gang warp in.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 10/08/2010 10:44:45 It's a TACKLER, which part of that don't you understand? It's fast, has a good locking range, agile, small sig radius, decently high scan res and it's cheap/easy to train for for a newbie.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Inggroth
For tackling role you should just spend 2 weeks and get in a stiletto (or other tackling ceptor) which can actually tackle stuff till your gang arrives.
A fitted stiletto is 15 to 20 mill whereas a vigil can be effective for 1 to 5 mill depending on what mods you use, that can be a big difference at the start of your pvp career when losses tend to be high and money tight.
The following fit I've found to be quite effective for tackling but wouldn't like to try and solo in it:
[Vigil, not a stiletto] Small Armor Repairer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Because the vigil doesn't have the MWD sig bonus of the stiletto heavy missiles are quite painful and even medium lasers will land hits on you so the repper and cap mods makes a big difference, will add 30ish seconds to the length of time you can hold a drake, gun boats are more variable. _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Inggroth
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Posted - 2010.08.10 13:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Inggroth on 10/08/2010 13:39:19
Problem is the Vigil goes pop by anyone cba to lock it. It either gets one-volleyd due to huge sig radius or gets eaten by warriors.
Stiletto on the other hand has chances to tackle stuff and actually get away. Or at least for the newbie to understand what happened when he wakes up in a cloning facility.
While the cost argument is valid, thats what reimbursment programs are for. Also even 2-3mil on a throwaway tackler who goes pop on every hostile engagement adds up rather quickly.
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.10 18:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Inggroth While the cost argument is valid, thats what reimbursment programs are for. Also even 2-3mil on a throwaway tackler who goes pop on every hostile engagement adds up rather quickly.
A cheaply fit Vigil can be put together for less than a mil, hull price included. 2-3 is overkill if you're flying tackle and more reasonable estimate if you're using a solo setup (which I don't have any experience with).
Bottom line: it's one of the most underrated tacklers out there and a good place for a rookie to start out in a small gang. Most corps would just hand over a stack of them to a newb without a second thought.
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Red Johnson
A1T0. Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.08.11 18:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Inggroth Edited by: Inggroth on 10/08/2010 13:39:19
Problem is the Vigil goes pop by anyone cba to lock it. It either gets one-volleyd due to huge sig radius or gets eaten by warriors.
Stiletto on the other hand has chances to tackle stuff and actually get away. Or at least for the newbie to understand what happened when he wakes up in a cloning facility.
While the cost argument is valid, thats what reimbursment programs are for. Also even 2-3mil on a throwaway tackler who goes pop on every hostile engagement adds up rather quickly.
2-3mil per ship on a vigil tackler? you can probably get 2 or 3 kitted out for that. And someone learning, probably without the assistance of a large wallet, you're dropping 13ish mil just on the inty hull, plus mods. it has a higher survivability rate, but still if you're learning, you probably just lost all that isk.
start low and cheap, build isk and skills, and t2 mods and ships that you like or will use. then remember, if you're flying in gangs, you'll eventually want to spec out at least bc's and bs's.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.08.13 08:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bomberlocks on 13/08/2010 08:30:37
Originally by: Inggroth Edited by: Inggroth on 10/08/2010 10:22:36
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo I couldn't help noticing that the folks smacking the Vigil don't appear to have spent much time in one. No offense meant Inggroth, however, you might want to try a different flavor than rifters.
So point me to some worthwile kills in your vigil and i might consider. After a quick search all i saw were some first-time-in-lowsec-nublets in t1 frigs (+t1 failfit) ratting it up around hevrice where you guys hang out. Oh and a salvager Scythe.... You can manage to kill those in a noobship tbh.
Also while fitting beams+aurora is probably the only way to apply *any* dps outside of 13km deathzone, any half-competent frig pilot will just lol at your 25dps while waiting for your cap boosters to run out or you to GTFO. You probably cant even break peak shield regen of MSE fit frigs, let alone *any* active tank. Just get Caldari Frig IV and get in a kestrel if you want to troll AB-frigs in lowsec and dont like the Rifter.
For tackling role you should just spend 2 weeks and get in a stiletto (or other tackling ceptor) which can actually tackle stuff till your gang arrives.
I'm sorry, but Lady Shaniqua begs to differ.
Rail-Vigil is an excellent boat. Lady Shaniqua uses a web+scram+ab+plate version, which gives you, with Minnie frig 5 and whatever speed implants you have, a frig with very high ab speed. Granted, Lady S is very highly skilled, and most probably uses implants (Snakes + Zor's would be my guess) and occasionally boosters, but you will get fights in one, and with her fit, you stand a good chance of being able to GTFO if things go wrong because of your speed.
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar Matari Stormriders
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Posted - 2010.08.13 11:20:00 -
[17]
Thrasher and when you get bored, move up to Hurricane. Awesome ship.
----------------------- Stormriders Recruitment ----------------------- |
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