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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Luxury Exports The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2010.08.14 09:04:00 -
[1]
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26435506593&sid=1&pageNo=1
Please have a read. I believe that the essence of a World of Warcraft expansion is equal to the advantage a person would get making a microtransaction in a game.
It's a thread in progress, but having your perspectives would be interesting. Whether they bash me to the ground or not, I'm interested to see what happens either way.
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XenosisReaper
Rising Ashes Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.14 09:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: XenosisReaper on 14/08/2010 09:25:56 Why don't you go dishono(u)r bets about it.
also, please inb4tl
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.14 09:45:00 -
[3]
EVE's expansion are not free, they are paid with the subscription money you pay for your game account and the subscription fee of EVE is slightly higher then that of any other MMORPG.
World of Warcraft uses a system were your subscription lets you access certain game content but to get more content you have to pay for the full expansion. You don't have to buy any expansion, just to have a chance to experience content of the game.
Microtransactions are an entirely different thing. Often the game client is free to play but to have any chance in PvP or past the very basic level of PvE you have to pay in cash for equipment.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Luxury Exports The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2010.08.14 09:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon EVE's expansion are not free, they are paid with the subscription money you pay for your game account and the subscription fee of EVE is slightly higher then that of any other MMORPG.
World of Warcraft uses a system were your subscription lets you access certain game content but to get more content you have to pay for the full expansion. You don't have to buy any expansion, just to have a chance to experience content of the game.
Microtransactions are an entirely different thing. Often the game client is free to play but to have any chance in PvP or past the very basic level of PvE you have to pay in cash for equipment.
Okay this is good, let's talk about this. First of all, it costs $15 monthly (USD) to play both WoW and Eve. Okay. Now where WoW uses a subscription system that charges you additional for extra content, that means if you do not pay for that content you are at a disadvantage against players wh odid pay for that content. The fact that you don't have to pay for it means that you are allowed to continue playing the game... at your own disadvantage.
Micros are generally where you "pay to win" or obtain intangible goods which give you benefit over another player or group of players. That is what I am basing the foundation of my argument on.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.14 10:16:00 -
[5]
Meh, the big difference is that the maximum spending is capped. You can't keep buying expansions when extra expansions don't exist. On the other hand, typical micropayment games have so much extra stuff you could buy that does give you an advantage that only very, very few would be crazy enough to buy it all.
Effectively, it's just as if WoW would have a monthly sub of ~19$ instead of ~15$. And that's about all.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.14 13:41:00 -
[6]
Removed trolling comment
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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XenosisReaper
Rising Ashes Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.14 14:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed trolling comment
:( I miss my comments
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You'wot
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Posted - 2010.08.14 19:15:00 -
[8]
From what I understand you are basically saying that EVE expansions keep the playing field even for all as opposed to WOW paid expansions which give those who can afford them right away an advantage over those who cant?
A better comparison is between WOWs content updates and EVEs expansions tbh, which are both free and similar in scope. CCP has never launched an expansion anywhere near the size of WOWs paid expansions and if they actually did I'm sure they would expect some cash for them too and rightly so.
Btw this is WOW you're talking about here. I'm sure 90% of the kids already have their expansions pre-ordered lol. The people that get in first will always have the "opportunity" to have the advantage over those that come along later. This rings true in any online game regardless of the situation.
That being said, WOW is way over priced considering its age and popularity. A new player that want's to hit the level cap is looking at USD$80 minimum as it stands. Add another $40-$50 come Cataclysm and you're looking at $120-$130 to play a game that's 6 years old ...and then your subscription fee lol.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.14 19:36:00 -
[9]
As has been touched on already; Eve expansions cannot be compared to Warcraft ones. Eve expansions often contain about as much content as a decent sized Content Patch for Warcraft. At best, an Eve expansion is only 500mb~1gb or so. WoW expansions require up to four single layer DVD disks. (roughly 16~gb, less if you take into account they usually install the entire client and then the expansion over top, so we'll say 8-10gb)
Even taking into account that a WOW expansion happens once every 3 to 4 years, compared to Eves bi-annually (once every 6~ months, or 2 a year) if the average install size was 750mb, thats only about 4-6gb in expanded content compared to 8-10gb, and that isn't taking into account the Content patches. Jesus the content patches occasionally hit a gigabyte on their own, though these are usually ones that bring in new instances or areas. .
I know file size isn't everything, but it's the only relevant way I can explain things adequately. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.14 19:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon EVE's expansion are not free, they are paid with the subscription money you pay for your game account and the subscription fee of EVE is slightly higher then that of any other MMORPG.
Comments like these make me cry blood.
The only thing that the subscription fee entitles you to is access to the servers whenever they are available.
Your logic is completely backwards. Your subscription is not an advance payment for new and future content - new and future content is a method to keep you paying your subscription. You give CCP money, they spend it however they like. Luckily, they think keeping subscribers is a good plan, so they re-invest a lot of the money you give them into making content for EVE in order to keep players around.
You give CCP revenue by paying to access their game, CCP spends its revenue as they see fit, you get content for no extra charge. -----
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Eyam Eohkeay
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Posted - 2010.08.14 21:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed trolling comment
That's funny, the OP is still here.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Okay this is good, let's talk about this. First of all, it costs $15 monthly (USD) to play both WoW and Eve. Okay. Now where WoW uses a subscription system that charges you additional for extra content, that means if you do not pay for that content you are at a disadvantage against players wh odid pay for that content. The fact that you don't have to pay for it means that you are allowed to continue playing the game... at your own disadvantage.
Micros are generally where you "pay to win" or obtain intangible goods which give you benefit over another player or group of players. That is what I am basing the foundation of my argument on.
It is still a diffent thing, because the you do not play the same content. PvP is mostly in special arenas battlegrounds and some contested zones but then you are still not at a disadvantage if you refuse to purchase an expansion. If you only the classic game you will not see the battlegrounds that were added later, but you will also not fight against players who have upgraded their equipment, because the PvP System of WoW will not let L80 chars ruin the day of Level 70 Characters in their Battlegrounds.
The only disadvantage I see there is in a players mind. A player might believe he or she misses something, but what they miss is only the expansions content. Levels or equipment are part of the content and also a means to play the content.
When Cataclysm is released even classic WoW players will be able to see the changes to the old zones. Of course new races and probably some high level zones will be locked if you have not purchased expansion, but still there is no real disadvantage.
The disadvantage exists only in the mind of a player, who might feel left behind, but the games mechanics do not reflect this. No burning crusade gear is needed to experience the classic endgame and no wrath of the lichking equipment is required to the endgame of burning crusade.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 14/08/2010 22:35:32
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai Comments like these make me cry blood. The only thing that the subscription fee entitles you to is access to the servers whenever they are available. Your subscription is not an advance payment for new and future content. The only reason you get expansions for no extra charge is that CCP thinks it might be a good idea to re-invest some of its revenue into its flagship game. You give CCP revenue by paying to access their game, CCP spends its revenue as they see fit, you get content for no extra charge.
Calm down will you?
Nothing is ever free. The development costs of future content and fixes of existing content are part of the subscription money. It is not possible to say to CCP that you like EVE as it is and are not interested in any future expansions content and decided that your subscription should be lowered to 4,99Ç a month only for server maintenance and continued game access.
So while there is no extra charge for an expansion of EVE, because you are already paying for it.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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TekRa
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon It is still a diffent thing, because the you do not play the same content. PvP is mostly in special arenas battlegrounds and some contested zones but then you are still not at a disadvantage if you refuse to purchase an expansion. If you only the classic game you will not see the battlegrounds that were added later, but you will also not fight against players who have upgraded their equipment, because the PvP System of WoW will not let L80 chars ruin the day of Level 70 Characters in their Battlegrounds.
The only disadvantage I see there is in a players mind. A player might believe he or she misses something, but what they miss is only the expansions content. Levels or equipment are part of the content and also a means to play the content.
When Cataclysm is released even classic WoW players will be able to see the changes to the old zones. Of course new races and probably some high level zones will be locked if you have not purchased expansion, but still there is no real disadvantage.
The disadvantage exists only in the mind of a player, who might feel left behind, but the games mechanics do not reflect this. No burning crusade gear is needed to experience the classic endgame and no wrath of the lichking equipment is required to the endgame of burning crusade.
Have you ever tried to get a group for Black Rock Spire, scholo, strat? Hell, even the Burning Crusade instances are extremely difficult to get a pug for, not even considering the old raids, especially if you wanted a real fight (eg with same level players, not a stomp thru with 80's). Then consider the Heroics of BC, you're even less likely to get a group to those, even with the introduction of the dungeon finder.
(almost) everyone wants to be the biggest & the best and that requires you have the highest level just to start with. WoW is a rush to level cap, then rush to gain better gear; if you're sub-cap then... good luck finding people other than levellers to play with. sig. |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon The development costs of future content and fixes of existing content are part of the subscription money.
No.
We pay for a strictly defined service. Future content and fixes are not included in that service.
The service makes a profit. CCP uses part of that profit to build customer loyalty, though they have no obligation to. -----
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Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.15 01:51:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Reiisha on 15/08/2010 01:51:23
Originally by: Blane Xero As has been touched on already; Eve expansions cannot be compared to Warcraft ones. Eve expansions often contain about as much content as a decent sized Content Patch for Warcraft. At best, an Eve expansion is only 500mb~1gb or so. WoW expansions require up to four single layer DVD disks. (roughly 16~gb, less if you take into account they usually install the entire client and then the expansion over top, so we'll say 8-10gb)
So your WoW folder is ~30 to 35 gigabytes?
An expansion fits on a single DVD. TBC and WotLK haven't changed much to the original world, only added new areas. An expansion is around 4 to 5 GB, changing a bit of the original content while adding it's own. WoW with all expansions installed is currently around 12 GB.
Also, never use size as an indicator for content. Following that logic, Age of Conan with it's client size exceeding 26 gigs (last time i had it installed), and it's expansion adding another 8 or so (afaik), it would mean it's a better game than WoW. Same for Vanguard which is ~24 gigs fully installed.
Judging anything by it's size is kinda... Weird. Tetris can be done in a few kilobytes but i wouldn't call it a few million times less good than EVE or WoW.
Originally by: Blane Xero Even taking into account that a WOW expansion happens once every 3 to 4 years, compared to Eves bi-annually (once every 6~ months, or 2 a year) if the average install size was 750mb, thats only about 4-6gb in expanded content compared to 8-10gb, and that isn't taking into account the Content patches. Jesus the content patches occasionally hit a gigabyte on their own, though these are usually ones that bring in new instances or areas. .
Again, the patch size doesn't matter, nor does the size of the full game. You have to remember that patches also contain data that is necessary in order to *patch* the game.
Bad Company 2 is a good example. Due to the way it's programmed, to change the texture of a single gun you will have to patch in about a gig's worth of data since an entire archive has to be replaced, the cooked archives can't be 'split' to replace the file seperately. Does this mean that Bad Company 2 gets a gigs worth of content? No, it gets a single retexture of a gun.
Same goes for WoW, though it's archives are essentially zip files and are easier to patch. Just because a patch is 2 gigs doesn't mean 2 gigs of data is added. It sounds counter intuitive but that's how things work.
Originally by: Blane Xero I know file size isn't everything, but it's the only relevant way I can explain things adequately.
It's not relevant.
WoW's expansions are horizontal content. You just get more of the same - Dungeons, raids, a quest here and there, added content to systems that already exist.
EVE's expansions are vertical content. You get more features rather than content, but this is fine since the game is a sandbox, not a themepark. You get tools to create your own content, as it were, rather than being spoonfed.
Both games' expansions can't be compared 1 to 1, apples and oranges and all. I mean, you're not going to compare Throne of Bhaal for BG2 to Galactic Adventures for Spore, are you?
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2010.08.15 01:55:00 -
[17]
What is this obsession with WoW? It's a **** game, let it rest.
Delenda est achura. |
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