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KiLLeR21
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.14 21:51:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant. The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now. The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu. Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for. To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing and should be flagged as such. Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss. I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. Most things that yield a profit (apart from veldspar mining in highsec, maybe..) have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to. My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Grumble. Annoyed right now.
Bye. CyberPunk. |
Triskie
Caldari Dead Cat Explorations
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Posted - 2010.08.14 21:54:00 -
[2]
Oh boy, here we go again lol
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TekRa
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:01:00 -
[3]
mission elsewhere? I hardly ever have ninja-salvager or looters in my missions. You're most likely in a drake with a sig the size of a small moon, too.
have fun. sig. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: KiLLeR21 Especially in Motsu.
Found your problem.
Quote: Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for.
The whole point of stealing is that they don't careà or that they want to loot your shipwreck.
Quote: To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing
To sum it up: no.
Quote: Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss.
Why?
Quote: My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet.
Horrible horrible idea. You want to create safe space. Won't happen. If you want to be safe, don't undockà in fact, don't log in (since the bad guys can get you even when you're in station). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.08.14 22:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: KiLLeR21 Especially in Motsu.
Found your problem.
Quote: Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for.
The whole point of stealing is that they don't careà or that they want to loot your shipwreck.
Quote: To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing
To sum it up: no.
Quote: Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss.
Why?
Quote: My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet.
Horrible horrible idea. You want to create safe space. Won't happen. If you want to be safe, don't undockà in fact, don't log in (since the bad guys can get you even when you're in station).
Amazing, starts off being ok and helpful and then turns into a total ass troll. It seems this happens most of the time.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Amazing, starts off being ok and helpful and then turns into a total ass troll. It seems this happens most of the time.
The point being made is that PvP can happen anywhere in Eve, and it's by design. Asking for a game mechanic that makes you 100% safe is a waste of time.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2010.08.15 00:09:00 -
[7]
fit a pvp ship with an active tank.. start the mission. blow up the thieves
then move to a new missioning system.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.15 00:10:00 -
[8]
7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.08.15 02:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
Didn't someone tell you you are wrong already? ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.15 04:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt..
8. Minerals that you mine are free 9. Highsec will protect you from pvp
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Elijah Mohammed
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.08.15 06:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Noun Verber
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt..
8. Minerals that you mine are free 9. Highsec will protect you from pvp
10.don't petition your loss due to bugs or anything else. THE LOGS NEVER SHOW ANYTHING.
"THE DUTY OF THE CIVILIZED MAN IS TO TEACH AND TRAIN THE UNCIVILIZED"
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knentil
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Posted - 2010.08.15 08:15:00 -
[12]
I am actually quite disapointed in ninja's as of late.
I wish I would get more to spice it up.
Heck, I may even pretend that I care about the wrecks just to attract some freaking attention!!
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.08.15 08:23:00 -
[13]
Never had a loot ninja in 4 1/2 years. Must be doing something wrong.
Perhaps they should buff loot thievery so they have a reason to come find me and take my stuff
And that, in a nutshell, is my sig.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.08.15 08:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: KiLLeR21
ninja salvaging
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.15 19:21:00 -
[15]
Ninja salvaging is INTENTIONALLY not stealing!
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.16 09:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
The sad thing is that there are actually people who believe this.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
The sad thing is that there are actually people who believe this.
yup... I don't know what is worse. The morons posting such absolute *******s or the fools that believe it.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KiLLeR21
My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Did you even give a moments thought as to how this would effect the game as a whole rather than your own selfish demands to have salvage protected for you only.
What you want will produce this -
Lowsec and 0.0 missioning = ultra safe appart from station games. Safespots for anyone in any system they can get a miaaion in. Wardecs pointless (even miners could mine in mission space)
Just because you dont want to make the effort to collect salvage before someone else does.
------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: KiLLeR21 I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant.
It's not a very good rant though. You don't come across as nearly hysterical enough. But some of your ideas are sufficiently poorly thought through that this is worthy of a rant.
Originally by: KiLLeR21 The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now.
This implies that at some point, since the introduction of the new scanner and the ability to probe people in mission DS, that this hasn't been in fashion.
Originally by: KiLLeR21 The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu.
You know something. I've never seen one of these mission loot stealing/salvaging types. How many legs have they got?
This could be because I don't do missions in Motsu, Dodixie, Oursalaert or any other busy system where in order to find a mission DS you just have to throw out a probe and pick the best out of the oodles of results you get. It really is amazing how few (read: none) salvagers you see in systems where probing out a mission DS actually requires a modi****of effort.
But then, why would any self respecting salvaging with a careful eye on their isk/hour bother to go to a quieter system when they can shoot fish in a barrel in Motsu?
Ah what the hell do I care? The more of you idiots crammed into Motsu, the quieter my mission running space remains. Happy days.
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SwissChris1
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Posted - 2010.08.16 12:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: SwissChris1 on 16/08/2010 12:45:06 disregard this message....I just ranted on how Frozean was an idiot for posting his "golden rules"...
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
The sad thing is that there are actually people who believe this.
And the fun one is, when they eventually think they are ready because they have enough SPs and test the waters they get their ass handed to them my people with a quarter of their sp but actual player skill and experience...
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.17 04:16:00 -
[22]
I just blow everything up the second some asshat warps in. Of course in a nighthawk I can tank just about any of it and go to bed so detargeting rats and targeting wrecks is no issue. I especially like blowing up wrecks as they are pulling them in and then I laugh at them. I rather it all go up in smoke than have some idjit take the stuff. Oh they will get a few things here and there but the time to find me warp to me and target stuff isnt worth shield booster and couple of guns and my endless laughing since I go for fast kills and move on anyway unless the wrecks are in 25Km range I leave them. But sometimes I blow it all up anyway because generally I dont like people getting anything off me.
I have had 2 people ask me if they could salvage my kills when it was obvious I was running missions and they made millons I am sure. Not being an asshat can go a long way even with me.
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Huhuhuhuhuhuh
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Posted - 2010.08.17 12:36:00 -
[23]
make cap stable (dominix) anything actually. get recon 3/3 warp to it and engage lars leave it for a night. feel better.
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Evil Stare
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Posted - 2010.08.17 16:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
Please stop posting as you sound daft.
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.08.17 17:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh make cap stable (dominix) anything actually. get recon 3/3 warp to it and engage lars leave it for a night. feel better.
come back the next day in a virgin clone.
it would only take a few shuttles to overload even a domi's tank against recon 3/3. and i'd gladly take the sec hit and pod the guy just to be a jerk on top of it all. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Huhuhuhuhuhuh
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
come back the next day in a virgin clone.
it would only take a few shuttles to overload even a domi's tank against recon 3/3. and i'd gladly take the sec hit and pod the guy just to be a jerk on top of it all.
Little bird told me that's its pretty easy to watch for certain sample played on the sound card and automatically power off the computer if such sample is played. really doubt powering off your computer breaks eula.
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Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Evil Stare
Originally by: Frozean 7 Golden Rules of EVE
Never LOOT yellows Never SHOOT anyone, till u have 100m SP Never enter LOWSEC, till u have 100b Never TALK in local. only scamers+wardeccers here Never carry more then 25m isk/5000EHP Never join "new Corps". They steal ur isk. Kill w/alt.. ...
Always follow the 7 golden rules of eve, in a non pvp ship!!
Please stop posting as you sound daft.
Frozaen always sounds daft
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sizzlore
Gallente New Eden Regimental Navy Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2010.08.18 00:03:00 -
[28]
get a tengu most ninjas wont bother trying to scan you if there are 100 ravens out doing missions.
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 00:48:00 -
[29]
How is Tengu for speed killing? I haven't actually bothered with them yet a bit pricey I always think for cruiser class ship put people seem to love them.
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Ruzzi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 01:02:00 -
[30]
thanks for the heads up...On route to Motsu
FYI: I will be the asshat pilot of the rifter stealing your loot
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Lord's Servant
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Posted - 2010.08.18 01:13:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lord''s Servant on 18/08/2010 01:13:48
Quote:
I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. .... have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to.
lolwut? You totally cant have "pvp fitted" ships or have "pvp trained friends" in your vicninity at all evar? :P FYI salvage isnt worth **** all for isk, and if they loot you can, and in the right ship often do, instapop those ninja's :) Honestly learn to pvp...its a huge part of the game. If you dont want to do that, you have to put up with the hardship of not trying to pvp in a game that is 99% pvp.
-Lords
also 2nd page snipah
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 02:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ruzzi thanks for the heads up...On route to Motsu
FYI: I will be the asshat pilot of the rifter stealing your loot
Hope you have a few days to wait around
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Slimy Worm
Cyan Wolf
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: KiLLeR21 Hi,
this is... a rant.
Bye.
gb2wowkthxbai
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vondronage
vondronage Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.18 09:44:00 -
[34]
It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who have such a screwed up value system that they actually believe something the BLEW UP belongs to them and that the police should protect them.
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: vondronage
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
Been a while since there was a really bad analogy in this thread. Thanks Vondronage!
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Rylech
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:20:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rylech on 18/08/2010 11:21:09
Originally by: Kerfira
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Since it is impractical that these quotes be tattooed backwards on the foreheads of every missioner even though they should be, they should at least be stickied. Game, set, match. Let's bury the salvage-is-stealing meme forevermore.
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heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.08.18 12:01:00 -
[37]
I dont take the loot or salvage so its nay bother to me, knock yourselves out, its crap money anyway. Its funny to see them yelling abuse in local because you wont shoot them.
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Honsou Blackblade
Minmatar Theoretical pi New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.08.22 01:45:00 -
[38]
Thanks Killer, got a good system to salvage in now. See you there ;) |
I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: KiLLeR21 Hi,
I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant. The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now. The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu. Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for. To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing and should be flagged as such. Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss. I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. Most things that yield a profit (apart from veldspar mining in highsec, maybe..) have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to. My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Grumble. Annoyed right now.
Bye.
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KiLLeR21 Hi,
I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant. The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now. The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu. Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for. To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing and should be flagged as such. Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss. I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. Most things that yield a profit (apart from veldspar mining in highsec, maybe..) have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to. My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Grumble. Annoyed right now.
Bye.
You are either a troll or an extreme care bear.
It does not matter if he has a friend close by and he steals from you. Your whole corp can shoot at him, and only he gains aggression to shoot back at you.
It is funny to kill a thief and then go afk in station while they sit at your mission and shoots your wrecks.
It is not your salvage. Get over it.
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v00d003
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:15:00 -
[41]
Use a GOLEM and salvage while u go. Or shoot your salvage as the Ninjas approach it. It really ****es them off, hey its not like ur going to get it anyway ,so have some fun with them
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Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.08.22 23:41:00 -
[42]
Ya know, just when it looks like these forums are going downhill, some benighted soul like the OP comes along and once again, all is right with the world... er, um galaxy.
OP, just get away form Motsu. Seriously, the low hanging fruit is the best fruit and as long as it's plentiful, why would we go someplace where we'd actually, you know, have to spend more than 5 minutes scanning missions up? Plenty of other places for you to go make piles of ISK until such time as you decide you want to shoot ninjas, and at that point, why, just come on back and we'll have a little fun. By the way, where did this myth spring up that we have this "mysterious ninja fleet" just waiting to come in to our aid? I'm pretty sure there aren't any larger ninja outfits than SN and if a mission runner gets ganked by one of our lads, it's almost always at the hands of the ninja he just shot at with maybe some chip-in damage from the NPCs.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.23 00:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: vondronage It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who have such a screwed up value system that they actually believe something the BLEW UP belongs to them and that the police should protect them.
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
Its like that for 2 reasons.
1. they put your name on it. 2. concord protects it from destruction.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 08:23:00 -
[44]
There is an easy solution to the problem that I find extremely effective. After you killed the NPC immediately target your wreck for tractor & salvaging it. Should anyone come into your area of the mission to ninja salvage, let them fly to the cans and just before they get to the can, blow it up.
You didn't get anything but they didn't get anything either and wasted their time. Also stop shooting NPC's, they will be wasting more time waiting for wrecks. Now, in the odd occasion they might bring their own ship or a friend and start shooting your missions NPC's to try show you that they WILL salvage the wrecks. In this rare case, just go back to your agent and quit the mission.
After a couple of times of a ninja salvager encountering you, they will warp in and just warp out again. I just love making them waste their time.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 09:52:00 -
[45]
Or you could just stay the hell out of Motsu?
I really don't understand the various strategies posted along the lines of blow up your wrecks/salvage as you go/actively try to inconvenience a salvager, when you could just not bother with any of this crap and move to another system.
Really, it isn't hard. Here's how you do it.
1. Find another agent of the lvl you require. 2. Move supplies you need in an indy 3. Move mission running ships 4. Commence mission running in a hassle free environ. 5. Simples.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 10:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: ChingChongCha on 23/08/2010 10:54:31
Originally by: Sendraks Or you could just stay the hell out of Motsu?
Assumptions is the mother! Who said I was in Motsu? I certainly didn't. I really don't care if I inconvenience a salvager. It is my mission, my loot, my salvage. If he does it without getting permission (I would anyway not give it) he's not going to get anything. So he's not getting anything either way.
1/10 for reading comprehension |
Lars Zundi
Sons Of 0din The Strangers.
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Posted - 2010.08.23 11:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh make cap stable (dominix) anything actually. get recon 3/3 warp to it and engage lars leave it for a night. feel better.
What the hell did I do to you?
Oh, and to the OP: Lots of ways around getting ninja salvaged.
Train for a marauder and salvage on the go, salvage large wrecks the minute you pop them. No decent wrecks on scan means ninjas will often pick a more profitable mission runner.
Pick a system that isn't as busy as the major mission hubs.
Train a dedicated salvager alt in a destroyer on a second account.(Doesn't take long but requires another account. Everyone has one nowadays, right?)
Blitz missions for LPs/bounties and leave all your salvage/loot.
I actualy don't mind ninja salvagers when I'm forced to mission away to get some isk, they add some excitement to otherwise boring missions and occasionaly some lulz when a spawn takes a diskile to them.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ChingChongCha Assumptions is the mother! Who said I was in Motsu? I certainly didn't.
Just a presumption on my part based on prior experience that people who come up with such strategies tend to be operating out of the busy mission running systems and are not bright enough to go elsewhere. Clearly you are not one of these.
Originally by: ChingChongCha It is my mission,
I agree.
Originally by: ChingChongCha my loot, my salvage.
Only if you can keep it. As a rule, I tend to view as stuff only being mine once it is my private hangar. Otherwise it is fair game, anyone can take it, providing they can find a way.
I leave too much salvage behind untouched to care about anyone taking it. Most of it is worth sod all and I only take what I can salvage while I'm still running the mission. Anything left is fair game. Not that anyone comes looking for it that I know of.
I'm not sure what point you're think you're making by blowing it up. Sounds like a waste of ammo to me.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sendraks ....
It is called courtesy. They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it. So the point I'm making is, your wasting your time trying to leech of my back.
Yes, I do take everything (I might drop the crappy cap boosters and scrap metal if I need some space though). Also, some times I'm not in the mood to take frigate wrecks especially if there are lots of them, those I mark as abandoned.
Anyone is welcome to salvage and loot my abandoned wrecks after asking politely, else, no go, I'll waste ammo blowing it up.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: ChingChongCha It is called courtesy.
Well I must agree that promoting a more courteous world is a worthy goal. I would certainly encourage polite requests to come salvage/loot my wrecks.
The rest is just a sematics argument about the "ownership" of mission loot. I happen to think that salvage belongs to whoever salvages it (which fits with CCP's view) and loot belongs to whoever gets it back into their hangar safely.
Regardless, there is no need to shoot wrecks or cans or anything in a mission DS if you're missioning in a system which salvagers do not frequent. The sooner new players realise that their woes can be solved by the simple expedience of moving systems (which will have minimal impact on their profits in hi-sec) rather than engaging in silliness of shooting wrecks or engaging in the risky activity of shooting loot thieves, for which they may be ill prepared to deal with the consquences, the happier everyone will be.
Well except for the salvagers and thieves, who won't have so many easy marks anymore.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/08/2010 12:49:54
Originally by: ChingChongCha They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it.
They take resources that are available for everyone to take. They did "acquire" it, the same way you would have: by using a salvager on the wreck.
They worked as hard for the salvage as you did (harder, in fact), so why shouldn't they be entitled to the rewards of that work?
àas for the loot, well, they have to run the risk of you blowing them up. If you choose to waive that risk, then that's not really their problem. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 23/08/2010 12:49:54
Originally by: ChingChongCha They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it.
They take resources that are available for everyone to take. They did "acquire" it, the same way you would have: by using a salvager on the wreck.
They worked as hard for the salvage as you did (harder, in fact), so why shouldn't they be entitled to the rewards of that work?
àas for the loot, well, they have to run the risk of you blowing them up. If you choose to waive that risk, then that's not really their problem.
Did they create the wreck? No. They "found" it and are leaching from it. Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing. And they are definitely not going steal anything from me reducing my income with the act. I will most definitely deny them their "hard earned risky" income.
So they are more than welcome to try and "acquire" whatever from what is mine, but they will be wasting their time and leave empty handed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ChingChongCha Did they create the wreck? No.
Did they get the reward for creating the wreck? No.
Quote: They "found" it and are leaching from it.
Much like you did.
Quote: Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing.
àand if someone does that in EVE, you can shoot them.
Quote: And they are definitely not going steal anything from me reducing my income with the act.
They don't have to, since you're apparently so willing to do that on your ownà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:28:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Sendraks on 23/08/2010 13:28:46
Originally by: ChingChongCha Did they create the wreck? No. They "found" it and are leaching from it.
So by this definition, miners, who happen to "find" asteroids in belts, are leaching from the roids, as they did not create them?
Originally by: ChingChongCha Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing.
This is the semantics argument about possession I was referring to in my post.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tippia They don't have to, since you're apparently so willing to do that on your ownà
Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well. I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
You are quite terrible at trying to convince me otherwise with your bs semantics.
BTW, let me guess, you are a ninja savager and angry because my method will most definitely discourage you to salvage my wrecks?
Rant along, I have better things to do.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ChingChongCha You are quite terrible at trying to convince me otherwise with your bs semantics.
It's not semantics, just plain old facts.
Quote: BTW, let me guess,
No, because you'll make silly assumptions based on absolutely nothing (because you don't actually know anything and has failed to do research in this area as well) and thus just make an arse out of yourself.
So instead of you guessing, how about I just tell you: I run missions in one of the more popular hubs. I haven't had a ninja inà
àever. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: ChingChongCha Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well. I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
Well, technically, propriety is not defined by any rules of your making, but by CCPS and server code. You can claim the wrecks as yours, but that doesn't mean a thing since the server decides (and it is authoritative in that respect) that they are for everyone to take. What you think is yours means nothing in eve. What CCP think is yours has a much greater impact.
This said, of course I'd rather not have anyone salvaging my stuff, but after all it's part of the fun. Even if I lose a hard-earned dominix to a freaking ninja and his RR. lol.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ChingChongCha Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well.
I find running missions where people don't come and nick my salvage works very well and I don't have to waste ammo blowing up wrecks that are there for everyone to take.
I have to wonder what you would do if another player came into an asteroid belt you were mining and started to go to work on the roids. Would you attempt to blow the roids up as well?
Originally by: ChingChongCha I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
I would encourage everyone facing these issues to either a) move systems to where salvaging doesn't happen or b) establish a constructive working relationship with salvagers for mutual profit and happiness.
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Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sendraks I have to wonder what you would do if another player came into an asteroid belt you were mining and started to go to work on the roids. Would you attempt to blow the roids up as well?
I tried. Doesn't work. ;) (actually, it was my noobie days when I was mining in osprey and kept forgetting to actually move the target to the rat before engaging weapons.... lotsa missiles wasted on roids :p)
Quote: I would encourage everyone facing these issues to either a) move systems to where salvaging doesn't happen or b) establish a constructive working relationship with salvagers for mutual profit and happiness.
This is a bit of wishful thinking. They mostly aren't in it for the salvage - they're in it for the killmail. They don't want you to be happy... unless you enjoy pvping. But hey doesn't hurt to try.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 15:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wolfcheck I tried. Doesn't work. ;) (actually, it was my noobie days when I was mining in osprey and kept forgetting to actually move the target to the rat before engaging weapons.... lotsa missiles wasted on roids :p)
Ah tell me about, done that too many times over the years, usually while tired. Popped a few of my own wrecks as a result of that carelessness as well.
Originally by: Wolfcheck This is a bit of wishful thinking.
Not really. Plenty of examples around of mission runners and salvagers co-operating peacefully together.
Originally by: Wolfcheck They mostly aren't in it for the salvage - they're in it for the killmail. They don't want you to be happy... unless you enjoy pvping.
These are really the minority of salvagers out there and if they weren'te salvaging, they'd be harvesting tears via some other mechanic. They're just out to torment others because of some social/mental/emotional defect on their part. EvE provides a safe, consequence free, environment for individuals to exericse this kind of behaviour. But they are the majority, just the ones who make and create the most noise, both on these forums and in local chat. Enough noise that anyone could be forgiven for thinking that its the norm, rather than the exception.
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Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 15:35:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sendraks These are really the minority of salvagers out there and if they weren'te salvaging, they'd be harvesting tears via some other mechanic. They're just out to torment others because of some social/mental/emotional defect on their part.
Without going so far as to label them that much, I though we were in fact talking about the NINJA salvagers. Regular salvagers offering to help out and share are just another profession.
Quote: EvE provides a safe, consequence free, environment for individuals to exericse this kind of behaviour. But they are the majority, just the ones who make and create the most noise, both on these forums and in local chat. Enough noise that anyone could be forgiven for thinking that its the norm, rather than the exception.
So, well, it so happens that I've spent some time talking with some of those "ninjas". Probably because I didn't offer them "tears" but instead just took the loss of a valued ship and at the time my primary source of income as a fact of life. Of course, there's plenty of stupid kids around - and those fit well in the picture you've drawn.
But there's also another big set of "normal" eve-players, easy going and funny. EVE is a PVP game: whether we carebears want it or not. The whole design of it yells "you gonna pvp! like it or not!". You play a game like eve, you can't be too complainy about the harsh environment. There's plenty of very nice games around that protect you, but eve isn't one of those.
You have to protect yourself: missioning outside big hubs helps. Not taking internet spaceships too seriously also helps. Just my opinion.
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Tiver Gladius
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Posted - 2010.08.23 15:43:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: ChingChongCha It is called courtesy.
The rest is just a sematics argument about the "ownership" of mission loot. I happen to think that salvage belongs to whoever salvages it (which fits with CCP's view) and loot belongs to whoever gets it back into their hangar safely.
I tend to despise ninja salvagers myself, so my point-of-view is certainly biased as a result. I have highlighted the quote because it begs the question: If salvage does not "belong" to anyone why are wrecks identified with the shooter's Corp Name and why do they need to be ABANDONED to be tractorable by a non-corp member? The reality is this: CCP is talking from both sides of their mouth, trying to appease parties on both sides of the issue.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.08.23 15:56:00 -
[63]
Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 23/08/2010 15:56:54
Originally by: Tiver Gladius
I tend to despise ninja salvagers myself, so my point-of-view is certainly biased as a result. I have highlighted the quote because it begs the question: If salvage does not "belong" to anyone why are wrecks identified with the shooter's Corp Name and why do they need to be ABANDONED to be tractorable by a non-corp member? The reality is this: CCP is talking from both sides of their mouth, trying to appease parties on both sides of the issue.
First of all, that is not "Begging the question".
Secondly, it's because the wreck contents DO belong to the person who destroyed the target. Since the wreck is the container for those contents, that assignation is made. I'm sure there are other ways they could handle it that would more accurately portray the intended ruleset, but every way I can think of would be significantly more complicated than the existing system. They're not "talking from both sides of their mouth". The ruleset is very simple:
Loot drops belong to the person who destroyed the target. Salvage is a free-for-all. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 16:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey They're not "talking from both sides of their mouth". The ruleset is very simple:
Loot drops belong to the person who destroyed the target. Salvage is a free-for-all.
Yet he has a point in the fact you can't tractor a wreck that you didn't shoot down yourself. Might be just game balancing, but it hints at a different direction.
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Garbad theWeak
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Posted - 2010.08.23 16:24:00 -
[65]
I'm completely indifferent to ninjas. Salvaging earns a tiny fraction of what I do running missions. Let them have my trash if they want it.
However, I keep a suicide thrasher on an alt to pop salvagers for lulz tho. Its pretty funny to watch the tables turn.
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